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where are the ALP44's?

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Posted by beaulieu on Tuesday, January 7, 2014 1:12 PM

The ALP44s were built by SGP (Simmering-Graz-Pauker AG) in Floridsdorf, Austria with ABB electrical equipment. SGP built most of the OeBB's 1042 and 1044 class electric locomotives.

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Posted by McKey on Tuesday, January 7, 2014 1:28 PM

This is highly interesting since these two machine types now in use at HectorRail in Sweden once left SGP factories too. HectorRail simply fixed their defects and now they are working wonderfully! So ALP44s should be piece of cake for them / their works (I think they are using the locoworks at Malmbana in Notviken and TågAB services in Kristinehamn).  

beaulieu

The ALP44s were built by SGP (Simmering-Graz-Pauker AG) in Floridsdorf, Austria with ABB electrical equipment. SGP built most of the OeBB's 1042 and 1044 class electric locomotives. Pictures by Gerry Putz.

Austrian 1042 below and 1012 under it.

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Posted by zkr123 on Tuesday, January 7, 2014 9:12 PM

I just thought that since they were not being used and they are the only spare locomotives that can go 125mph, I'd say why not give them a shot if they're still functional.

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, January 7, 2014 10:08 PM

That is another thing, Leo and McKey, what will happen to the Amtrak AEM-7s? They are getting on in years of heavy service, the newest being 25 years old, and the oldest being 35 years old, although the Rcs have also been in service that long.

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, January 8, 2014 3:52 AM

Scrap is the likely outcome when Amtrak is done with all of them. Hopefully at least 1 will be preserved such as at the the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania with its electric collection when they're done.

They're old and require increasing amounts of maintenance and with decreased availability rates, have many millions of miles under them, and there's not much demand for aged high speed electric passenger power in this country. So the consensus from those in the know seems to suggest it's unlikely that other operators like SEPTA would be interested in even the rebuilds. 

Doesn't even sound like MARC would want some of the HHP-8's so I don't see Bombardier being able to peddle those when they come off lease despite being young. They've always been disappointments, had unsatisfactory reliability that has created a hangar queen reputation for the fleet, and many of the vendors don't exist which complicates keeping them running. Despite their young ages, they're nothing that anyone else would likely want and I imagine that they're too Americanized to export despite the technology apparently being successful in several related European designs. 

If it's not already too late, if there's going to be any secondary sales of electric power in this country in the near future, it should be with the subject of this thread. But even though they were all buttoned up for storage, it doesn't take long sitting idle in the Northeast for expensive deterioration to take hold so their viable days are numbered. Plus, many went into storage as they were coming due for expensive mid-life overhauls.

So any operator picking some of these up is likely facing a hefty price tag to get one up and running.

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Posted by nyc#25 on Wednesday, January 8, 2014 8:39 AM

  The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania and Amtrak have already agreed that one will

be preserved at the museum.  I got this from a member of the museum's board.

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Posted by NorthWest on Wednesday, January 8, 2014 9:17 PM

Leo, thanks.

Glad at least one AEM-7 is being preserved, hope an HHP-8 is as well.

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Posted by McKey on Thursday, January 9, 2014 10:29 AM

Maybe they could ask for one ALP44 too? Just to make the weather, torch and possible new owners will no destroy every one of them. I could imagine this could actually happen, as the ASEA Rc cool looking 3 preseries prototypes in Sweden disapperared before anyone noticed they were gone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SJ_Rb  

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, January 9, 2014 7:51 PM

There is always SEPTA's lone ALP-44, no matter what happens to the NJT ones, although with the possibility of accident damage, I agree with you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SJ_Rb (made clickable).

 

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Thursday, January 9, 2014 8:56 PM

They're so new, disappeared so quickly, and have such a strong family resemblance with the AEM-7 that I think the entire class could easily end up disappearing. I'm not sure that there are enough people out there that appreciate them or enough railfan nostalgia to lead to one being saved.

Anyone know if it's something that the United Railroad Historical Society of New Jersey is considering pursuing when they begin to be disposed of? Off hand, if one is saved, they would appear to likely be the best bet to be responsible for it I would think. They have several NJT related pieces including a U34CH and several electric locomotives with NJT connections, presumably retain a good relationship with NJT, and seem to be good at getting things done.

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Posted by NorthWest on Thursday, January 9, 2014 9:18 PM

Sigh

 I fear that is the case, and the GP40FH-2s will probably vanish as well. While they still exist, however, there is still hope.

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Posted by zkr123 on Friday, January 10, 2014 4:30 PM

But they could help on the Shoreline East and expand using the P40's from New Haven to Hartford. 

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Posted by NorthWest on Sunday, January 12, 2014 12:00 PM

zkr123
But they could help on the Shoreline East and expand using the P40's from New Haven to Hartford.

I think that SLE is looking at purchasing new M8s, the same MUs used by Metro North into New Haven.

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Posted by zkr123 on Friday, January 17, 2014 8:19 AM
NorthWest

I thought they could be express trains that could go from New Haven to Providence while the M8s would provide commuter and local services. (Shoreline East is looking to expand to provid Providence) Then the P40s then would be able to run from New Haven to Hartford. I think that could work.
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Posted by NorthWest on Saturday, January 18, 2014 8:17 PM

While your idea would work,

The M-8s can reach 100MPH, so there is no reason to not use them on express services. This has the cost advantages of fleet standardization. I think this is the route they will go.

The ALP-44s are similar to locomotives in Nordic countries, and would fit in well there.

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Posted by zkr123 on Thursday, January 23, 2014 7:39 PM

These are two pictures of ALP-44's:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=315536&nseq=9

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=243987&nseq=42

Here are two pictures of AEM-7's:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=361730&nseq=6

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=281931&nseq=8

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Posted by McKey on Monday, February 3, 2014 1:45 PM

Now it looks like the Swedish/Norwegian market is all of a sudden full of used electric locomotives.

SJ, the government owned passenger operator for Sweden, is shedding 25 of its 27 Rc3 locomotives. These have a documented history and they have been kept in top shape as you can see from the picture below. Rc3 is a true multipurpose electric loco on the lighter side, capable of running up to three units in consist (could be more but the obsolete hook-and-screw coupler used in Europe won't handle more). And since it is part of the Rc family, everyone knows it is trustworthy even in the demanding northern conditions. 

The first batch of 13 handsomely painted glossy black locos is now for sale and you can bid for those. This sale should be finalized by June this year. Some of the units are already in use at some of the numerous operators in Sweden (training in Sweden is comparable to trucking in U.S., meaning that anyone withing qualification can run trains). I wonder what will happen to these units if the companies running them won't win the bidding.

With the European general economic gloom there are already the right number of locos in Sweden now, so I suppose these will be enough for the coming year or so. After that there might again be room for Alp44s. Or if a need to use 15 kV / 25 kV locos at through route Sweden (15 kV) - Denmark (25 kV) - Germany (15 kV) arises, Alp44 are a lot better alternative to Rc3s, which could only run as far as Copenhagen in Denmark / Malmö in Sweden.

It will be interesting to see how the sales develop and who are the bidders.

 

Below an SJ Rc3 unit 1062 already coupled to the intermodal freight cars in Stockholm Årsta in 2013. This was in use at Rush Rail on their poor business of running intermodals between Gothenburg and Stockholm. The business owner in now bankrupt and Rush Rail has acquired shielding from its creditors.

And here is one of the two "switcher" units remaining for use at Hagalund in Stockholm for the SJ itself. 1027 is still has cool 1990s colors :) .

 

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Posted by NorthWest on Monday, February 3, 2014 6:45 PM

Thanks for the report, McKey.

As long as the ALP-44s still exist, there is hope for further service. We will just have to wait and see, and possibly make aware locomotive short operators should the need for locomotives arise.

 

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Posted by McKey on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:07 AM

You are right NortWest, and after this change of loco owners we will know the approximate prices for this kind of second hand or third hand locomotives.

I think that in one or two years the Swedish and German economies running in full speed again the need for more used locos will arise again. The 25 kV (+15 kV) in ALP44s might prove excellent feature for numerous export-import intermodals now running between Germany and Sweden. Of course the quite expensive ATP systems are still needed for all three countries, pushing the costs higher.

NorthWest

Thanks for the report, McKey.

As long as the ALP-44s still exist, there is hope for further service. We will just have to wait and see, and possibly make aware locomotive short operators should the need for locomotives arise.

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Posted by McKey on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:12 AM

It looks like even the lights are there for Swedish use Big Smile . This is a true Rc with more handsome features than the original Swedish one. Looks like the loading gauge might also be a bit larger, which would be of no concern in the Nordic countries (but might be a problem at some routes in Germany).

zkr123

These are two pictures of ALP-44's:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=315536&nseq=9

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=243987&nseq=42

Here are two pictures of AEM-7's:

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=361730&nseq=6

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=281931&nseq=8

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 11:07 AM

Please, keep us updated!

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Posted by McKey on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:13 PM

I will! It will be interesting to see how this big auction goes forward here.

NorthWest

Please, keep us updated!

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:49 PM

If they're going to be sold for reuse, it better be relatively soon. Sitting in this environment on the old Lackawanna Cuttoff even properly buttoned up isn't doing them any favors. Each day they sit, reactivation gets a little more expensive not to mention their future reliability takes a hit. 

Those $2 million dollar overhauls they were set to receive along with any upgrading and modifications such as if they're sold for overseas use might just be viable. But throw in a few years of disuse causing havoc with things like electrical cabinets, computers, and such could easily turn them into some expensive scrap metal imports as any potential operator starts to dig deeper. 

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Posted by McKey on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:02 PM

I'm still wondering why they are not reused in U.S. Knowing quite well that it is an almost all diesel country.

Somehow the Alp44 line looks inviting, just like being ready to be towed to Europe for a coupler change...big pond missing in between.

Thank you for sharing a picture of these!

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Posted by NorthWest on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:04 PM

Shipping costs, too...does anyone have a guess what a per unit charge would be to ship them across the ocean?

McKey, there is just no one who wants them, sadly. All the US electric operators have enough units.

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Posted by McKey on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:17 PM

I suppose the shipping costs can not be prohibitive as some of the rolling stock builders in Europe seem to ship their rolling stock rather than rolling them to the customer by rail... ;)

But seriously, would anyone have an estimate?

NorthWest

Shipping costs, too...does anyone have a guess what a per unit charge would be to ship them across the ocean?

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Posted by Overmod on Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:40 PM

I would suspect comparatively cheap. 

Current auctions for automobiles on eBay indicate that RoRo shipping from Europe to, say, Canadian ports will run no more than about $2400 -- in some cases considerably less.  The 'footprint' of an ALP44 might not be that much more, assuming the loading gage conforms to the ship's rollway, even if the trucks were separated and the roof electrical components bozed in a container for shipment.

Add to this what I suspect is a mismatch of RoRo traffic between Scandinavian and relevant United States ports... and it might become cheap indeed to do the shipping.  I can't speak to the preparation expense at the US end, or the setup upon arrival.

Considerably less, perhaps orders of magnitude less, than a truck move of any great distance in the US...

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Posted by McKey on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 2:21 AM

I think the Danish company Maersk world's biggest container ships Triple-E:s run directly to Gothenburg in Sweden making mowing easier. From where in U.S. I'm not sure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maersk_Triple_E_class

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Posted by pajrr on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 3:08 AM

Shipping costs depend on whether you want 1st class or Priority Mail. The post office raised the rates last month. Hey! You haven't heard of the Railroad Post Office?

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Posted by Leo_Ames on Wednesday, February 5, 2014 9:14 AM

We've seen several diesels migrate from Australia to the US over the past 15 years. So it must be fairly reasonable if things like the Hamersley Iron SD50's on the Utah Railroad still make financial sense to import.

NorthWest
McKey, there is just no one who wants them, sadly. All the US electric operators have enough units.

SEPTA might but it sounds like they're buying ACS-64's instead to replace their AEM-7's and  their ALP-44 or possibly getting rid of locomotive hauled consists completely with more Silverliners. 

And the list of potential passenger electric locomotive operators is getting a little bit shorter. MARC is getting enough diesels to cover all their services so their AEM-7's and HHP-8's days are numbered.

There really isn't any obvious use here. If they or some of their components see any reuse, it's probably going to have to be in Europe. And even that appears like it probably has too many hurdles when everything is said and done.

I suspect come 2015 or 2016, we will start to see these parted out and scrapped. But that's just a hunch. 

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