The first batch in auction was sold to...HectoRail! No surprise to me at least here. HectorRail is one of the open access (any company can basically run trains anywhere in European Union, rail lines are publicly owned) companies. I would not say any more newcomer as the company is now about 10 years old and has gathered a respectable nearly 100 locomotive unit fleet for its use. These are, as is normal in Europe, mostly electric road locos of all kinds. Diverse fleet does not hurt HectorRail as they are one of the companies with no difficulties on technical adaptations, work arounds and rebuilding just about anything to work for them. HectorRail is backed by the Norwegian Høegh family also owning a sizable Norwegian shipping company.
Now, don't laugh on the U.S. side of the pond: most locos are 4 axled and run individually because of the minimal train length of <2500 feet common in Europe. Also the couplers are still ancient hook and screw type and most of the rolling stock have also side buffers. So buying more 4 axled little lower hp stuff makes perfect sense here. Rcs can also be coupled up to three units together to run steel slab and ore trains if need be.
Here is more technical info on several Rc types and variants if you are interested:http://www.4rail.net/reference_sweden_locomotives_electric1.phphttp://www.4rail.net/reference_sweden_locomotives_electric1.php#sj_rc3
Next a couple of pictures of the locos auctioned:
Above is a very typical ASEA built Rc locomotive (class Rc3) that can basically easily be built to adapt to any use. Only thing missing from these well kept beasts is the energy feedback to overhead wires which is today a norm in almost all of Europe. The newer locos will use their traction motors as generators and feed the electricity back to networks. As far as I know this works well anywhere outside the backward Russia (where they have dynamic brake blowers on trains like Pendolinos to still use the dbs). The Rc3 now bought still have a life expectancy of around 30 years, getting technically obsolete at some point because of the missing dynamic brakes.
HectorRail bought 13 out of 13 auctioned in the first batch. They are now planning to use around 8 of these, the rest being sold probably to their current users (these have been hired out from SJ for years). The sale to Swedish competitors is according to HR company competitor policy if you are wondering why they are doing this. To enlight this more maybe we could say that once you are strong enough marketwise, why would you fear your competitors, they become more or less like partners.
If I did not cover so aspects of the sale, please ask and I'll try to answer. Or if you are interest in any other subjects around this locomotive or similar units.
McKey Now it looks like the Swedish/Norwegian market is all of a sudden full of used electric locomotives. SJ, the government owned passenger operator for Sweden, is shedding 25 of its 27 Rc3 locomotives. These have a documented history and they have been kept in top shape as you can see from the picture below. Rc3 is a true multipurpose electric loco on the lighter side, capable of running up to three units in consist (could be more but the obsolete hook-and-screw coupler used in Europe won't handle more). And since it is part of the Rc family, everyone knows it is trustworthy even in the demanding northern conditions. The first batch of 13 handsomely painted glossy black locos is now for sale and you can bid for those. This sale should be finalized by June this year. Some of the units are already in use at some of the numerous operators in Sweden (training in Sweden is comparable to trucking in U.S., meaning that anyone withing qualification can run trains). I wonder what will happen to these units if the companies running them won't win the bidding. With the European general economic gloom there are already the right number of locos in Sweden now, so I suppose these will be enough for the coming year or so. After that there might again be room for Alp44s. Or if a need to use 15 kV / 25 kV locos at through route Sweden (15 kV) - Denmark (25 kV) - Germany (15 kV) arises, Alp44 are a lot better alternative to Rc3s, which could only run as far as Copenhagen in Denmark / Malmö in Sweden. It will be interesting to see how the sales develop and who are the bidders. Below an SJ Rc3 unit 1062 already coupled to the intermodal freight cars in Stockholm Årsta in 2013. This was in use at Rush Rail on their poor business of running intermodals between Gothenburg and Stockholm. The business owner in now bankrupt and Rush Rail has acquired shielding from its creditors. And here is one of the two "switcher" units remaining for use at Hagalund in Stockholm for the SJ itself. 1027 is still has cool 1990s colors :) .
Now it looks like the Swedish/Norwegian market is all of a sudden full of used electric locomotives.
SJ, the government owned passenger operator for Sweden, is shedding 25 of its 27 Rc3 locomotives. These have a documented history and they have been kept in top shape as you can see from the picture below. Rc3 is a true multipurpose electric loco on the lighter side, capable of running up to three units in consist (could be more but the obsolete hook-and-screw coupler used in Europe won't handle more). And since it is part of the Rc family, everyone knows it is trustworthy even in the demanding northern conditions.
The first batch of 13 handsomely painted glossy black locos is now for sale and you can bid for those. This sale should be finalized by June this year. Some of the units are already in use at some of the numerous operators in Sweden (training in Sweden is comparable to trucking in U.S., meaning that anyone withing qualification can run trains). I wonder what will happen to these units if the companies running them won't win the bidding.
With the European general economic gloom there are already the right number of locos in Sweden now, so I suppose these will be enough for the coming year or so. After that there might again be room for Alp44s. Or if a need to use 15 kV / 25 kV locos at through route Sweden (15 kV) - Denmark (25 kV) - Germany (15 kV) arises, Alp44 are a lot better alternative to Rc3s, which could only run as far as Copenhagen in Denmark / Malmö in Sweden.
It will be interesting to see how the sales develop and who are the bidders.
Below an SJ Rc3 unit 1062 already coupled to the intermodal freight cars in Stockholm Årsta in 2013. This was in use at Rush Rail on their poor business of running intermodals between Gothenburg and Stockholm. The business owner in now bankrupt and Rush Rail has acquired shielding from its creditors.
And here is one of the two "switcher" units remaining for use at Hagalund in Stockholm for the SJ itself. 1027 is still has cool 1990s colors :) .
Most readers of TRAINS will be intrigued by SJ 1027. Regenerative braking has been used on this side of the pond but rectifier locomotives were equipped with dynamic braking since, until recently, there was no way rectifying DC current from the motors back into AC for the overhead.
Great to hear from you! You have been missed.
My few questions:
1. How many locomotives total are up for auction?
2. What is the approximate price range for each?
3. Is there more demand than supply for locomotives, especially as the economy picks back up?
Thank you very much.
Great to be back on this forum again :)
-> 28, 13 were sold now, so the second batch will have 15 according to original plans. This would leave 2 units for the use of SJ. Surprisingly these are "switchers"! One is in Stockholm, I have not spotted the other so I can't tell for sure where you find the nicely colored unit, most likely Malmö or Göteborg.
-> This is not public information yet. Neither the buyer or the seller has reported this, but I will have this info available next month. I expect the price range being somewhere between 75'000 - 150'000 euros / 100'000 - 200'000 USD. I might be mistaking here. But these are OLD but very well kept locos and missing some of the latest equipment (which of course does not hurt their use much at the moment, in fact the Rcs are valued much higher than brand new TRAXX F140 AC2 models).
The Swedish economy is the second strongest in European Union (Norway next door is doing even better with their abundant oil, gas and hydroelectric reserves). Once the demand in one or two years from now will pick up again (recession cycles being quite predictable), there will be need to my estimation of about 50 more locomotives for freight in Sweden and Norway, which form one big market on practically one rail network (owned by two countries).
There is a big restructuring going on with public sector operators like Green Cargo and SJ loosing small amount of volumes, or at least not growing, while the new private guys with a lot of flexibility and lots of Rcs and other locos, coaches and freight cars (the last two ones are Paneuropean) to use have gained substantial amounts of national and international long distance freights. Also a lot of local operators have replaced SJ of the regional passenger traffic, making Swedish railroading quite colorful and vacating the Rc3s for their next users.
NorthWest Great to hear from you! You have been missed. My few questions: 1. How many locomotives total are up for auction? 2. What is the approximate price range for each? 3. Is there more demand than supply for locomotives, especially as the economy picks back up? Thank you very much.
Below two pictures from Gerry Putz. These are ex. Austrian railways Rc2 units now in Sweden owned and operated by TågAB where they were built. Some of the Swedish Rc2 units appear to be built to Rc3 and batch now being auctioned.
Thanks for the answers and pictures.
So it seems that there is room and demand for the ALP-44s! Now we just need to get New Jersey Transit and a power short operator to start talking to each other...
You are absolutely right. But the success in sales would mean the pricing should not be prohibitive. While "Rc kind" locos must be an attractive option, there are many other European locos for sale or lease as well.
I think we will be much wiser before the years end.
One of the issues is that Green Cargo is for the moment still storing 10 - 15 Rcs around its networks.
However, it is simultaneously shedding its old and obsolete Rc1s that have clocked millions of miles. Looking at the specifications the Rc1 looks to me a kind of "preproduction model" slightly different from the most other Rcs. When the Rc1s are gone, others models will be needed to replace them.
NorthWest So it seems that there is room and demand for the ALP-44s! Now we just need to get New Jersey Transit and a power short operator to start talking to each other...
Anyways, long live the Rc1 (in the pictures)! The best recognition means are the rebuilt large grilles on the sides. The first loco was spotted in Kiruna after it brought the regional mixed freight there from south and the second unit #1026 I spotted in Hallsberg outgoing locos row last summer.
McKey You are absolutely right. But the success in sales would mean the pricing should not be prohibitive. While "Rc kind" locos must be an attractive option, there are many other European locos for sale or lease as well. I think we will be much wiser before the years end. One of the issues is that Green Cargo is for the moment still storing 10 - 15 Rcs around its networks. However, it is simultaneously shedding its old and obsolete Rc1s that have clocked millions of miles. Looking at the specifications the Rc1 looks to me a kind of "preproduction model" slightly different from the most other Rcs. When the Rc1s are gone, others models will be needed to replace them.
Good to know. Please keep us updated!
The big question is if NJT is even willing to sell, and if so, for how much. If time, I may try to contact NJT about them, but probably not until next weekend.
The Rc1s are beautiful!
Caltrain seems set on using EMU's based on foreign designs. I doubt that these locomotives, mostly due for heavy overhauls when laid up and with a decade or more of sitting idle by the time the projected 2019 startup approaches, would ever be viable for them.
Currently, there is a power surplus in the land of Rcs, so we've put on hold our efforts to try to contact NJT and potential buyers.
Would any of the freight companies consider buying them so they don't have to go around Manhattan?
Because the tunnels into NYP are crowded enough as it is. Not going to happen.
For what ever reason, I'm not sure why, I believe the FTA still has some stake in their ownership. This became a big issue when we acquired some Comet cars from NJT several years ago. They are still NJT property, just stored in Colorado.
Shouldn't come as a surprise, but the contract that will kill SEPTA's sole ALP44 and their older AEM-7's has been signed.
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2015/05/septa-inks-$154-million-order-for-new-siemens-locomotives
Interesting: new top of the line locomotives cost 8,5 million USD per unit. Old Rc locos (related to AEM7) in Sweden + Norway have recently been sold for 7,3 million USD a piece despite their old age and being DC drive (much more service needed than on AC drive, Rcs are actually inspected and served _daily_). It sounds like SEPTA has really made a great purchase!
I'm also sorry to hear the old meat balls being removed from the roster :(
Could we think that purchase cost is actually not ruling but the operations costs are decisive here.
Long live the Swedish meat balls! Pictures by Nick, Hannu and me.
As Northwest points out, even in the Nordic countries the Rcs are abundant. European economies (outside Germany alone) are still in deep recession, which means lots of mothballed locomotives, for now. Type Rc1's have now all been removed from roster duet to old age, and even some Rc2 and Rc4 units are being recirculated as raw steel.
NorthWest Currently, there is a power surplus in the land of Rcs, so we've put on hold our efforts to try to contact NJT and potential buyers.
Below a private company TågAB (English: Train corp) is running a container train in Hallsberg, Sweden.
It looks like the whole train would be quite at home on the NEC.
Would that not be a sight!
CSSHEGEWISCH It looks like the whole train would be quite at home on the NEC.
Swedish SJ was divided up in 1996 to enable competition on rails, just like it is done on highways. The government owned half that took over freight became Green Cargo. Here Green Cargo Rd2 is hauling freight in Lund. Rd2 is a rebuilt Rc2, extending their effective life with 20 years. Picture by Gerry Putz.
Below one of the early Rd2 units on test drive a coach laden with instruments for metering its heart beat. About 60 were rebuilt, but they retained their DC drive.
NorthWestBecause the tunnels into NYP are crowded enough as it is.
In the middle of the night when the freight would run?
Clearance in the tunnels was always the significant issue. You're basically limited to single-level containers in well cars -- no TOFC so no 'iron highway' bridge service through the congested Manhattan region for road traffic.
If I rmember correctly, years ago there was a small railroad in central New Jersey that was interested in running a service from various industrial and warehouse facilities in that area through to a connection with NY&A somewhere on the Island. Did anything ever come of that?
My understanding is the main problem with operating freight through NYP is grades in excess of 2.2% and short vertical curves. Apparently tests with coal trains during WWII resulted in a lot of broken drawbars and knuckles. I'd like to see a double-deck tunnel constructed from Staten Island to Bay Ridge to allow the Staten Island Railway to become part of the NYC Subway System and allow freight to better access the former NH Bay Ridge Branch and the rest of LI and New England, but that's best left to another thread.
SEPTA was smart and waited for Amtrak to pay off much of the R&D on these units, but they still will need modifications for commuter service. Interesting details on the used locomotive prices, McKey. I wonder how much more expensive an ACS-64 is over a roughly equivelent AC Vectron.
I'll have to try to make it back to PA to capture them before they are retired.
It is interesting to note that the TågAB train is powered by another Rc derivative; the locomotive is a former OBB 1043 (based on the Rc2) that appears to have recieved some modifications. McKey, thanks for the pictures!
Well, I managed to dig up some public facts of Vectron (many big private locoleasing companies like MRCE or Railpool don't give out prices). To my great surprise the VR-Yhtymä of Finland 80 Vectron series costs 3,75 million euros / piece! These are brand new state of art 6400 kW AC machines to run under 25 kV wires or other areas with 400 kW of diesel power pack energy (it is suitable for switching, would be crueling on line).
Other bigger players buying standard 15 kV + 25 kV non powerpack version might get those formidable locos even cheaper.
Comparing Vectron to any other modern 4 axle loco its pulling power is better. As a conclusion it would appear the RCs will be gone little by little, so let's enjoy them while we can!
Any estimate on the ACS64 prices for Amtrak? Since it is a public entity I suppose this is not a secret?
NorthWest It is interesting to note that the TågAB train is powered by another Rc derivative; the locomotive is a former OBB 1043 (based on the Rc2) that appears to have recieved some modifications. McKey, thanks for the pictures!
Northwest, you have sharp eyes! It is indeed one of the ÖBB 1043s. Below is another ex. Austrian 1043 working for Infranord. Location is Boden, in Northern Sweden. It was very windy and I was trying to discuss the loco with the crew inside. As wind swallowed much of all sound I could hardly hear anything else than that the text inside the yellow unit are still - in Austrian German! Not to matter since German and Swedish are related languages.
For those who are wondering what is the difference with seemingly similar ex. ÖBB and ex. SJ Rc locomotives, look at the headlight in pictures above. Also some differences are easy to found on ditch lights and even a coupler socket. To my understanding you should not look at the pantograph, although in these pictures that also gives a hint of the original country of use.
McKey I'm still wondering why they are not reused in U.S. Knowing quite well that it is an almost all diesel country. Somehow the Alp44 line looks inviting, just like being ready to be towed to Europe for a coupler change...big pond missing in between. Thank you for sharing a picture of these!
I'm still wondering why they are not reused in U.S. Knowing quite well that it is an almost all diesel country.
Somehow the Alp44 line looks inviting, just like being ready to be towed to Europe for a coupler change...big pond missing in between.
Thank you for sharing a picture of these!
Amtrak appears to have payed $466 million for 70 units, which works out to about $6.65 million USD a unit. (Funny, I expected it to be more. I suspect a bit of the price increase in the SEPTA units is the need to retool the assembly line back after the Chargers are built).
With the current low exchange rate, the Vectron works out to about $4.20 million USD a unit. But yes, let's enjoy the Rc series while they last, hopefully for a long time.
The 1043 has a half pantograph. It looks like in the pictures one of the SJ Rcs has retains its full pantograph, while the other has a half pantograph. Both Green Cargo units have the full pantograph. Is the half pantograph part of the rebuild package?
The coal railroads are fine with the power they have; the E60s were always better freight locomotives anyway and there may be some new NdeM units that have not even seen service. They need C-C power.
NorthWest Amtrak appears to have payed $466 million for 70 units, which works out to about $6.65 million USD a unit. (Funny, I expected it to be more. I suspect a bit of the price increase in the SEPTA units is the need to retool the assembly line back after the Chargers are built). With the current low exchange rate, the Vectron works out to about $4.20 million USD a unit. But yes, let's enjoy the Rc series while they last, hopefully for a long time. The 1043 has a half pantograph. It looks like in the pictures one of the SJ Rcs has retains its full pantograph, while the other has a half pantograph. Both Green Cargo units have the full pantograph. Is the half pantograph part of the rebuild package? The coal railroads are fine with the power they have; the E60s were always better freight locomotives anyway and there may be some new NdeM units that have not even seen service. They need C-C power.
The HHP8's had reliability issues and I believe that they have already been sold for scrap. Besides, none of the coal roads are electrified.
The coal roads in this context are the utility operators that are currently using E60Cs of various types. The HHP-8s are stored at Bear and won't be scrapped for a while. Amtrak is only leasing them from Bombardier and the term of lease is not up yet.
Meanwhile on the other side of the pond, Green Cargo Rc1s have officially been retired, meaning two units will go to museums and the rest is scrapped. Here two units are seen in Eskilstuna, Sweden at the New Years Eve 2014. What a pitifaul change to death row from their earlier state.
This is what things looked like not longg before, first one is in Hallsberg, Sweden in 2013.
And here the Rc1 is seen in active duty in Kiruna, Sweden in 2009 having just brought in a mixed freight and taking a well earned nights sleep before dash back south.
Sad to see them go; I wish I had seen them in service. At least I should be able to see a preserved one.
I don't know if this was mentioned earlier, but all of the unrebuilt AEM-7s have been taken out of service and many scrapped. One, 915, has been preserved at the Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania. I think that is all that will survive. AEM-7ACs live on for the time being.
As for the title of this thread, the ALP-44s still slumber on, though they are gradually decaying and any attempt to reactivate them in any fashion needs to happen soon.
Excellent that at least that one of the Aem7DC fleet is being preserved! And I'm sorry to hear all the original "Swedish meatballs" are now gone. Hopefully the Alps will stay there for a long time, though knowing how cheap the ACS64/Vectron is I fear too they might replace the veterans at some point.
With the Rc1s there is also a suprise silver liner (as usual): TågAB of Sweden (locomotive works based in Kristinehamn, right in the mid point 9 million population of Sweden) has taken a strategy well suited for a growing company: if you can't buy new locomotives, you can always fix old ones. And they mean it. Their roster is full of economically viable past classes, kept in excellent operating condition an often painted like new locos would be. They also do serious locomotive maintenance for about 20 other operators, so views around locoworks are typically neatly colorful.
This month TågAB started running 6-7 new passenger services, financed by Swedish state. For this purpose they have accumulated an impressive second and third hand locomotive fleet since last year. And one of the locos is...an Rc1 #1014, fixed to almost mint condition! So there is even one in daily running condition. While Rc1 is slightly less powerful than its later cousins, it should not matter in a relatively light passenger duty. This unit supposedly in purpose has been left to its old SJ/Green Cargo scheme, probabaly so that we can remember what things looked like before. This kind of heritage fleet attitude is also part of their philosophy.
Below a picture for a proof, taken from the locoline in use for TågAB in Kristinehamn in August 2015. See how the Rc1 actually has either brand new or totally refurbished truck, though not the front wheel. Behind the unit is seen one of the two Great Northern colored diesels...since it is a long story, I better spare it for later what EMD engined GN locos are doing here....
So Northwest, for the good news, when you get here, you still can see this one unit running (with some effort to find out where it can be found that day).
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