As I see it the British Railfans were on METRA property so the question is whether property owned by a public entity is the same as pubicly accessible property. If as somebody else has pointed out METRA's policy is photographing trains from the platforms of its stations is permitted provided photographers stay off the tracks, and they don't interfere with operatons then the police and their supervisors need to be made aware of METRA's photography policy.
However, if a METRA police officer hassles a railfan photographing one of their trains from publicly accessible property then that police officer is on thin ice.
The bottom line is if the METRApolice officer tells you not to photograph trains, even from publicly accessible property, the best thing to do is leave.
zardoz wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: zardoz wrote: Respect must be earned, it is not simply granted to someone just because they have a tin star on their chest.The respect should be immediate and automatic for what the star represents, not for the individual wearing it. Otherwise, you'd have anarchy. At least with "anarchy", you would not have a bunch of pompous, arrogant, donut eaters pretending to be our "protection" from the bad guys. We would take care of ourselves.Did you ever have any communication with "bad guys"? Did you ever ask them how many crimes they did NOT do because they were worried about the cops? I'd bet not too many.Of course I do not want anarchy; that would be absurd. However, what I do want is that those that have the duty to serve and protect the citizens, do so by following the rules of law, the Constitution, and the Bill of rights, just like they expect the citizens to do."Respect should be immediate and automatic for what the star represents" sounds a bit too much like a sheep bleating to me.
Poppa_Zit wrote: zardoz wrote: Respect must be earned, it is not simply granted to someone just because they have a tin star on their chest.The respect should be immediate and automatic for what the star represents, not for the individual wearing it. Otherwise, you'd have anarchy.
zardoz wrote: Respect must be earned, it is not simply granted to someone just because they have a tin star on their chest.
Respect must be earned, it is not simply granted to someone just because they have a tin star on their chest.
The respect should be immediate and automatic for what the star represents, not for the individual wearing it. Otherwise, you'd have anarchy.
At least with "anarchy", you would not have a bunch of pompous, arrogant, donut eaters pretending to be our "protection" from the bad guys. We would take care of ourselves.
Did you ever have any communication with "bad guys"? Did you ever ask them how many crimes they did NOT do because they were worried about the cops? I'd bet not too many.
Of course I do not want anarchy; that would be absurd. However, what I do want is that those that have the duty to serve and protect the citizens, do so by following the rules of law, the Constitution, and the Bill of rights, just like they expect the citizens to do.
"Respect should be immediate and automatic for what the star represents" sounds a bit too much like a sheep bleating to me.
Reality check: The police in this country (at least most of them) are not "Pompous, arrogant, donut eaters pretending to be our 'protection' from the bad guys." They are our protection and I wouldn't forget it anytime soon. Someday one of them might save your behind, so I'd watch what you say, if I were you.
Willy
zardoz wrote: Green Bay Paddlers wrote: Must all officers first pass a personality test and be vetted for us all before being taken seriously? I already do take them seriously. Very seriously. As serious as a heart attack.It's just that I do not automatically respect them. Nor do I trust them.
Green Bay Paddlers wrote: Must all officers first pass a personality test and be vetted for us all before being taken seriously?
Must all officers first pass a personality test and be vetted for us all before being taken seriously?
I already do take them seriously. Very seriously. As serious as a heart attack.
It's just that I do not automatically respect them. Nor do I trust them.
By calling them "Pompous, arrogant, donut eaters" you are not taking them seriously.
Willy2 wrote: zardoz wrote: Green Bay Paddlers wrote: Must all officers first pass a personality test and be vetted for us all before being taken seriously? I already do take them seriously. Very seriously. As serious as a heart attack.It's just that I do not automatically respect them. Nor do I trust them.By calling them "Pompous, arrogant, donut eaters" you are not taking them seriously.
...nor the rest of us. Please!
I can't believe I'm reading these comments in a railfan web-site.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I seem to be reading a lot of "If they want to take away my rights, then OK," comments. What are we, railfans or mice? I'm not going to give up my rights that easily. Ben Franklin once said, "Those who will trade liberty for security, deserve neither." (or words to that effect) The original poster said he wanted to do nothing illegal, and yet suddenly it's not a good idea to do something legal?
What would we be saying if this had turned into an international incident? For example, the incident could unfold like this: the 5 tourists file a complaint with their embassy (I believe there one in Chicago, which would be convenient); the ambassador reports back to the home country; their state department issues a travel advisory about Chicago; tourists avoid the area; the economy suffers a drop in tourism dollars; travel-dependant businesses complain; city aldermen launch an investigation; the local media picks up the story of how METRA caused it; talk shows zero in on a possible civil-rights abuse case; METRA caves under the public pressure and refunds their travel costs, gives them a lifetime pass, and flies them back for a "better" visit. Railfans can relax and enjoy taking photos of trains without looking over our shoulders.
Dan
Yep, let's not give no respects ta some person wit da tin badge, but if over their fat, donut-filled belly they gots dis here T-shirt what says; "I'm not a terrorist" then, by gum, dey musts be da most respectables pershun in da whole wide worlds.
What cud be illegal about disrupting commerce? Or, unethical about crowding a public place so folk can't get home after a hard day's work?
Let's drive dem Metra Police authorities nuts with us RailMobbers instead of watching for some nut with a bomb. That'll teach 'em really gooder.
-----
Yes, those that would trade their freedom for security, deserve neither, but you who would steal my security in the name of your pompus selfrighteous confrontational attitude should be imprisoned until you learn to get along with your neighbor for the greater good.
An Anarchist and a Dictator are exactly the same, because BOTH are concerned only with their own pleasure, and they both have lackys that empower them by subscribing to their random whims.
Be sure to let me know the next time you go to take photos, I'll come exercise my RIGHTS to stand in front of you. And if you are planing on taking videos with sound, I'll be sure to bring a bent up old trombone and exercise my RIGHTS to blow it any time you are trying to record the train whistle. WE can execise our respective RIGHTS at the same time!!!!!!! Won't that be just wunnerful?
("Bog off, Onslow!")
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
As one of the five railfans from the UK who were detained by Metra Police during our visit to the Rock Island District I would just like to point some of you in a different direction from the route that you appear to be taking with this thread.
I will firstly say that I have yet to read Steve's article as my copy has not made it across the pond yet but I did have extensive discussions with Steve about a week after we returned to the UK.
The facts are quite simple. We arrived at Vermont Street at 6.05am having caught the Metra Electric from downtown. We were at Vermont Street, photographing and videoing departures, until the 7.32am departure along the sub which we caught to 119th Street. We were all ticketed passengers carrying valid tickets for the journeys we were making. At 119th Street we were approached by a Lieutenant and an Officer of the Metra Police who were polite in enquiring of our motives. We were asked for our ID's, which we gave, and after a polite chat with the Officers we were allowed to board the next departure which we intended to ride to 107th Street. Whilst the Officers on the ground seemed satisfied with our motives it would appear that their superiors downtown were not and the crew of the Metra train were asked to have us detrain at 111th Street, which following an announcement over the PA we did.
We were again met by the same two Officers who apologised to us and asked us to accompany them to there office at 123rd Street, which of course we did without question. During the 2 hours plus of our stay at 123rd Street, all officers we met were polite and courtious. We were given coffee, and comfy seats in the squad room, and were able to chat freely with the officers whilst they continued with the enquiries they had been instucted to make. At the end of the period of our detention we were returned to Vermont Street, by car, to continue with our days railfanning.
Some of you writing in this thread think that the officers were acting on their own initiative. Neither I, nor any other member of the party believe this to be the case. The Officers at Blue Island were doing a job and if they had been allowed to do that job by their superiors we would not have been detained. It appears that some members of the public had contacted the Police over our prescence at Vermont Street and, of course they must follow this up. This they did in a professional manner as any one of you would expect from a member of the Law Enforcement community.
We contacted Trains to widen this as an issue. It is dissappointing that Metra, who "Welcome Railfans" cannot come up with an adequate reason for the length of our detention when Officers on the ground were satisfied with our motives. At the end of the day we were doing nothing illegal, nor had we anything to hide. We were not arrested and were allowed to continue on our way once enquiries were complete.
The Law Enforcement community has a very difficult job. Transit Police even more so in these dark times. In the United Kingdom we have lived with the threat of direct terrorist action on our transport systems for over 40 years, as well as in our pubs, clubs and public places. It is our responsibility to assist the Police, wherever we can, so that they can track down the misguided few who wish to do the law abiding many, harm.
Simon Bennett.
A lifelong railfan.
Simon,
Thank you for that eloquent and well-thought out response. I'm sorry you went through that.
An American Railfan
Charles Freericks
Charles,
Thank you for your reply.
I think the bottom line here is that we made people nervous. In doing that, we left our motives open to question. Our group visits Chicago anually. It is one of the great railroad cities of the world. Fortunately our experience has not put us off visiting and we will return next year. We will, however, write to Metra before hand and make them aware of our presence. At least if we do this and are then detained, we can say there is a huge problem in Chicago!!!!
Simon --
Thank you for clarifying the details so articulately. I tried to warn people not to assume anything until we heard the other side of the story.
As you can see, your incident -- inconvenient, but quite understandable -- immediately activated the hysterical conclusion-jumpers on these forums, and also awakened a few chronically-constipated, know-it-all curmudegons who seized it as another opportunity to demean our law enforcement officers.
Ironic, isn't it, that those who would most like to lead and organize us are exactly the wrong people to do so -- the hotheads among us. They blather on about their rights, but I'd bet none of them has ever read the U.S. Constitution, Bill of Rights or Amendments to the Constitution. At least none of them seems to understand the principles therein.
You and your friends are welcome any time here in Chicago.
PZ
Thanks for the clarification. As you'll see I've put a couple of comments on this thread and I hope you'll not find them inflamatory. I did'nt know who was involved other than Milby and Batesy.
Send me an email if theres anything you're unhappy with in my responses.
Simon, thanks for taking the time to put us straight. Maybe we can all learn something from your experience, regardless of which side we took in this thread.
I am a bit sensitive to the foaming stereotypification that we had here. As a retired serviceman, I always felt a kinship with our first responders, the police among them. These are people who have to deal with some of the worst behaviour that humanity can instill. Humans constitute the greatest threat to them, the very people they are sworn to protect. So, when we use a far-too-broad brush to paint an unsavoury picture, even if for a small portion of them, and we don't know all the facts, I do not think we respond in kind, nor honourably, to those whom we hope will have the necessary courage and integrity to do frightening and unpleasant things on our behalf.
-Crandell
Simon Bennett wrote: We were all ticketed passengers carrying valid tickets for the journeys we were making. At 119th Street we were approached by a Lieutenant and an Officer of the Metra Police who were polite in enquiring of our motives. We were asked for our ID's, which we gave, and after a polite chat with the Officers we were allowed to board the next departure which we intended to ride to 107th Street. Whilst the Officers on the ground seemed satisfied with our motives it would appear that their superiors downtown were not and the crew of the Metra train were asked to have us detrain at 111th Street, which following an announcement over the PA we did.We were again met by the same two Officers who apologised to us and asked us to accompany them to there office at 123rd Street, which of course we did without question. During the 2 hours plus of our stay at 123rd Street, all officers we met were polite and courtious. We were given coffee, and comfy seats in the squad room, and were able to chat freely with the officers whilst they continued with the enquiries they had been instucted to make. At the end of the period of our detention we were returned to Vermont Street, by car, to continue with our days railfanning.
We were all ticketed passengers carrying valid tickets for the journeys we were making. At 119th Street we were approached by a Lieutenant and an Officer of the Metra Police who were polite in enquiring of our motives. We were asked for our ID's, which we gave, and after a polite chat with the Officers we were allowed to board the next departure which we intended to ride to 107th Street. Whilst the Officers on the ground seemed satisfied with our motives it would appear that their superiors downtown were not and the crew of the Metra train were asked to have us detrain at 111th Street, which following an announcement over the PA we did.
Doesn't the above text bother any of you? Good God! If none of you can see the implications of what these guys went through just because they were taking photos, then you are more hopeless than I thought possible.
As railfans (as well as "Americans"), you should be morally outraged at this treatment. These guys did nothing to warrant the cops to ask for ID, much less be detained. Remember the old WW2 movies, when the Gestapo officer always asks, in that stereotypical German accent, "Your papers please"? Well, I've got news for you: that is exactly what happened to these guys.
But since most of you seem willing to let others do your thinking for you, I have reached the end of my willingness to try to open your eyes. I hereby give up. I promise, you will not have to suffer through any more of my thoughts. But someday I'll come back to read all the whining about how you can no longer photograph trains, or bridges, or buildings, or statues, or houses, or...... And I will say, "I told you so".
Today I had a good experience.
I was swinging by the CN yard in Neenah, WI whan I spied a BNSF GP38-2 in a train. I stopped to take a pic. I'd been there about 5 mins and a Neenah PD and CNRR 'official' car approached me. I pointed my camera at the sky and stood there, hands out of pockets. I knew I was on public sidewalk so I smiled. Both men that got out smiled and asked, politely, what I was doing. I told them that I thought the BNSF engine was neat and I simply wanted to take a couple of pics of it from the sidewalk. The cop ran my license plate on the truck (SOP) and the CN guy asked if I was a local. Yada, yada...after a few minutes of chit chat the crew pulled up and the 5 of us talked for about 5 minutes. Friendly, no issues whatsoever. After the train and crew and CN 'official' (I don't know what his job was) left I talked to the NPD officer. I asked him about PD and railfans. He said that as far as he was aware the NPD was concerned railfans or whomever could take pics from public places of things in public view. I asked about asking for ID/plate #s and he said it's just SOP "You never know who you run into who is wanted for some random warrant somewhere!" That makes sense to me.
Bottom line/take home message: Be calm, cool, and reasonable and you shouldn't have problems. Just my
Zardoz, YES, I am morally outraged at their treatment. But, then again, I am morally outraged someone believes God is so weak and ineffectual as to require a human's assistance to judge and murder infidels.
I bet you would agree that the police MUST stop someone setting up a sniper scope rifle on the train platform... right? I certainly think you'd congratulate the person that stopped them.
What if they are taking measurements of the platform amidst comments of, "If I place the explosive, uh, here, it should kill the most people." I think you and I would draw the same line in the sand... detain that idiot!
Now, what about taking photos of the structures? Will you advocate waiting to question their motives AFTER they show up with the backpack full of explosives and THEN question them? Oops, too late! Besides, would you allow the authority to question what is in the backpack?
How do you tell what the person's intent is? By whether they have a Olympus camera or maybe because they have a Kodak? By the message imprinted on their T-shirt? Skin color? Hair color? Depth of eyebrow? "That guy's eyes are too close together!"
I have to go to the county court house every month for the priveledge of paying alimony. I used to be able to just walk in, joke with the nice ladies behind the counter, and pay. Now I have to empty my pockets and go through a metal detector... not because of 9-11, but because some deranged individual used a pen knife to stab the Assistant District Attorney in the back. "No knives of any type allowed!" I have to put my Swiss Army Knife, with the scissors, pliers and cork screw in the glovebox of the car so it does not get confiscated at the door.
I HATE being 'defenseless' in the court house. I don't know the Sheriff Deputies at the door. Are they legit? I dunno. They gots da tin badge (and guns)! Are they mentally stable? I dunno. Hey, wait a minute... I've never seen them with donuts! Hmmmmmm...
Can I have a weapon to fend off some idiot that rips the ball point pen from the counter and attacks me? "All right, you two, ball point pens at 20 paces!" "No fair, his is a Schaffer's and all I have is a BIC!"
But, does that mean I should go to go down there with a FLASH MOB to show 'em who's boss in dis 'ere Newnited States a 'Merica? At least the way it is, the only ones I have to really worry about are the guy holding the pen at the time and the two guys at the door with the guns; I can be fairly assured that everybody else is as defenseless as I am.
I have my own theories of the ultimate cause of this POLITICAL mess. It ain't a religious war but the tenets of all religions are at the root. But since we ain't s'posed to discuss religion here (or politics) and since I doubt if anybody here would agree with me, I won't argue it. I will tell you that a part of the manifestation of the real problem has a lot to do with certain fundamental attitudes of BOTH you and ME (and everybody else).
What I don't have is a solution that you and everybody else would be willing to accept.
WE, as a society, must draw the lines for the authorities to abide by. You (within your rights) appear to draw your line a bit more to one side than I would. Please don't move your line on my account! But, likewise, don't dismiss me for where I would draw it (besides, mine is so squiggly and full of erasures and scribbles, you DON'T really KNOW where MINE is! So there! Nyah, Nyah!... or... whatever).
It is NOT because I don't have strong feelings about this... I do... but I keep seeing that there are those that want to kill me (and you) and the "authorities" are stymied as to how to protect me (and you). Are there certain individuals that should not be behind a badge? Sure, but then there seem to be a whole lot more people on the other side of that tin shield that ought'a be UNDER the thing! If anybody has some method of telling which are which, please call Homeland Security and tell 'em!
Zardoz,
What we went through did bother us and that was the reason that we contacted Trains to give the issue a wider airing. This was not our only course of action as we wrote directly to Metra's Executive Director, Philip Pagano. This was the gentleman who in a previous issue of Trains had stated that railfans were welcome onto Metra property and that taking video and photographs of Metra trains was allowed.
I will not share the detail of his reply with this forum but there are elements of the reply which give me cause for concern.
The main concern is that, having been allowed to board the next train toward Downtown, we were then politely removed from the property at the next convenient station stop. If the Officers on the ground were satisfied with our motives then we should have been allowed to go about our hobby without further interference. It is aparent from Metra's reply to our concerns that Metra believes it acted in the correct manner and that what happened to us was "standard protocol". If this is the case then every railfan should be wary when travelling in Chicago.
There has been a lot of implication in this thread that a terrorist intent on doing harm to people on a transit network would take photographs of the potential target. This was not the case in London. The people who carried out the attack walked the property and were caught on CCTV whilst doing so. Our equivalent of the FBI even had course to be concerned about two of the four people who eventually commited the crime but did not follow up these concerns. I personally do not believe that anyone intent on causing harm needs to photograph trains or stations. Heard of Google Earth? Fantastic resolution of everything you need to see from above. Far more information than you would get with your digital camera.
As United Kingdom residents there is only so much we can do to raise the issues surrounding our detention. You guys live in the United States and therefore have the right to vote. Maybe it is time that questions were asked of your representatives at Government level, be this local or Federal. At least you would have a better idea of the level of paranoia that exists with your representatives.
I believe there have been a couple of terror plans foiled (including one in New York City) in which a number of photographs of potential targets were confiscated.
I agree that two hours seems excessive. Perhaps it had to do with the fact that you are not a US citizen? That is simply conjecture.
Perhaps if our authorities were a little more vigilant before 9/11, we would have discovered terrorists casing the World Trade Center (1993 attack) or learning how to fly airplanes (9/11). I applaud our railroad police for stepping up to the plate and taking care of business. Maybe that is why we haven't had an attack in our country since 2001?
Things changed in this country on 9/11. I am willing to sacrifice some freedoms to ensure a safe community to live in.
Green Bay Paddlers wrote:I applaud our railroad police for stepping up to the plate and taking care of business. Maybe that is why we haven't had an attack in our country since 2001?
If someone really wanted to do something to RR infrastructure or equipment, preventing them from taking pictures will not stop them. How many at grade crossings are there in this country where engines/cargo/passengers pass over roads? What if someone 'accidentally' ran into one of those with a large truck containing explosives or something nasty? It'd be that hard. Also it would be easy to get a second-hand HiRail truck, load it up and voila. So stopping someone from taking pictures is really pointless in this instance.
eolafan wrote:When one has done absolutely nothing wrong and is within the parameters of the law, COOPERATION INSTEAD OF CONFRONTATION is the best policy for all involved.
Gribble Siding wrote:...because as many of us know, the media never lies.
FOFLMAO!
Gribble Siding wrote:The Railfan hobby already doesnt have the best reputation with the railroads, we dont need to be crapped on in the media, because as many of us know, the media never lies.
The Railfan hobby already doesnt have the best reputation with the railroads, we dont need to be crapped on in the media, because as many of us know, the media never lies.
What a silly, irrelevant statement. Inflammatory words like this do nothing to enhance the media's view of railfans. This demonstrates exactly why railfans do not have the best reputation with railroads, of which many RR employees frequent this site. So do many media people.
And show us exactly where the media lied about and crapped on railfans?
Do me a favor. If we ever happen to be fanning in the same area, stay away from me.
Good words there, Jim.
Here's what no one has considered, a look from the Metra Police point of view instead of that of the railfans:
It appears that some members of the public had contacted the Police over our prescence at Vermont Street and, of course they must follow this up. This they did in a professional manner as any one of you would expect from a member of the Law Enforcement community.
So, some vigilant citizens called in this group's activities. After 9/11, that's what we've been instructed to do because on that day EVERYTHING changed forever.
The transit police answered the multiple calls. No problem there, they had to be checked out, standard procedure. Being diligent as they must, the Metra Police showed up, asked a few questions and then checked IDs. More SOP.
Huh. No American citizens in the group. Everyone with foreign ID. Huh. Not exactly easy to check the validity of those IDs. How many of us would even know if those IDs were authentic -- and not fakes? Ever see IDs from Great Britain? How would those cops know a fake from an authentic one? At least with U.S. driver's licenses or photo IDs and a DOB, people can be checked for wants and warrants and criminal records in less than a minute.
These folks -- as welcome as they are -- are not citizens and therefore not necessarily listed in U.S. law enforcement databases.
So the only way to do this properly and diligently was to detain them -- because American citizens made reports -- until things could be straightened out by contacting European authorities.
So, while it caused an unfortunate delay, no harm done. Everybody went on their way.
BTW, I wonder how many of those flapping their gums on this thread -- screaming about their rights being violated -- realize that today we are celebrating how we as a nation got those rights. How many of the gum-flappers have done their share to protect the rights of not only their fellow Americans, but people everywhere -- or are they just enjoying the fruit of someone else's sacrifice?
Poppa_Zit wrote: Gribble Siding wrote:The Railfan hobby already doesnt have the best reputation with the railroads, we dont need to be crapped on in the media, because as many of us know, the media never lies.What a silly, irrelevant statement. Inflammatory words like this do nothing to enhance the media's view of railfans. This demonstrates exactly why railfans do not have the best reputation with railroads, of which many RR employees frequent this site. So do many media people.And show us exactly where the media lied about and crapped on railfans?Do me a favor. If we ever happen to be fanning in the same area, stay away from me.
Gribble Siding wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: Gribble Siding wrote:The Railfan hobby already doesnt have the best reputation with the railroads, we dont need to be crapped on in the media, because as many of us know, the media never lies.What a silly, irrelevant statement. Inflammatory words like this do nothing to enhance the media's view of railfans. This demonstrates exactly why railfans do not have the best reputation with railroads, of which many RR employees frequent this site. So do many media people.And show us exactly where the media lied about and crapped on railfans?Do me a favor. If we ever happen to be fanning in the same area, stay away from me. So are you saying we have a great, stellar, glorious, wonderful reputation with all the railroads. Is that why I see so many people on this board and others crying foul because a Special Agent for a particular railroad( otherwise called "rent-a-cops", speshul agents, or any number of derogatory comments) told them to leave the property. How about those railfans who stole from, oh I dunno,. the Tennessee Pass, or locomotives that had numberboards ripped off, just before they were to get patched (DRGW 5371, anyone?). Albeit most railfans are good guys, the railroad knows this, but there are a few that bring trouble upon themselves by breaking the law. Ever heard phrases like "one screw up counteracts 100 that-a-boys"? Well its true with railfans. To say it isnt is to naive and have some serious blinders on.So how does me saying "railfans already dont have the best reputation" make us look bad? Its the truth, like it or not. Deep down, you know its the truth. The only thing we as a hobby can do is to try and respect private property signage, respect the railroads we love, respect those who work for the railroads we love, and to try our damndest not make waves, get out of line, or make spectacles of ourselves.As for me showing where the media lied about railfans, all I need to do is point to Canada. In a most recent, and unfortunate event, a photographer was struck, and killed, by a train. The media identified her as a irresponable railfan who wondered too close to the track. The railroad hinted at the same. Turns out she was a nature photographer who foolishly set up to close to trackage. There have been more than one story in the D/FW metroplex that, while not entirely negative, certainly werent positive.And finally, I will go were I please. If that means I happen to setup near you, oh well. I wont move for you, I wont give it another thought. So deal with, or you can move on down the line. you certainly wont tell me where to g, nor will you tell me what to do. After all, its called freedom. Its one brought to us by the 1st Ammendment. Its a freedom won for us by outr forefathers, and maintained by every fighting man or women in this, my country's, great armed forces.
I have held my tongue long enough in this issue.
If you are going to act like children, or better yet babies about the whole thing they why not just get in your little corner and cry about it. It is people like you that give railfans a bad name. No wonder why us railroaders dont like foamers. Let me catch you closer than 50 feet from any track and I will be sure to call in the so called rent a cops for you. You think you are so much better than they are. Why dont you come out and work with them for just one day. See how much BS they go through. I though we were all adults here, but I guess some are just posing as adults. I have know some railfans that did good for the railroads, but you are one of the reasons why railfans have a bad name. POPPA_ZIT you are absolutly correct in my opion. Gribble I am ashed to say that I live in the same city, or area as you. This is supost to be a place to share ideas, or pictures, or even have a friendly conversation with the rest of the world about trains. But the person that started this whole thread, basically created a MOB as he wanted.
Poppa _zit wrote,
Poppa_zit, you may not be familiar with the entry proceedures for non US citizens entering the United States but I guess I should enlighten you.
The Department of Homeland Security requires that non US citizens flying to the United States and entering the country through the visa waiver process offer the following information prior to departure from their departure airport:
Name, address, phone number. Flight details. Address of first nights accommodation in the United States.
This information is collected by the airline who forward the details to the DHS as soon as the flight has boarded. If the details are not forwarded the flight does not depart. The DHS then has 7hours 25minutes to check these details against records held in DHS computers and by other agencies in both the United States and Europe. We also fill out an I-94 visa waiver form whilst on board our flight which is checked against records received at Port of Entry. On arrival at the Port of Entry into the US we are subjected to immigration proceedures which treat us as criminals before we enter the country. We are fingerprinted and have a digital photograph taken of our faces. We must hold machine readable passports which are scanned. If your passport was issued after 26th October 2006 it must contain a bio-metric chip which contains data unique to yourself. At this point, if there are any suspicions about a persons eligibility to enter the country they are taken by an immigration officer to a room and interviewed. This happened to one of our group who had been to India a few weeks previously on business and had an Indian Visa in his passport.
Once Border Protection are satisfied that you are a fit and able person to enter the country you are allowed to go through customs and arrive in the land of the free.
If we get into the country and are trying to cause harm to US citizens then the Department Of Homeland Security has failed. Furthermore they hold all the information that can be used to ID us whilst on US soil. We hold our copies of the I-94 visa waiver form which we must also produce when we are asked for ID. This shows our clean bill of health for entering the country.
It should not take 2 hours plus to confirm who we are.
J, you must be in DG!
There was a police presence on the platform in Lombard yesterday as well. I didn't see them open any bags, but that was probably the reason they were there. We weren't there for train-watching or train-riding, so we weren't even approached.
As for not letting the crossing-violator board, the UP West Line had a case of the engineer telling the crew that he didn't want a similar perpetrator to get on his train. When he was left behind, the other passengers applauded.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
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