Train Horns and Whistles - Too Quiet?

[Willy2]

The train horns are just fine in my opinion. Just the idea of making it so that the trains cannot blow their horns if they are more than 20 seconds from the crossings if enough to make me puke!!! 20 seconds is not enough time. It seems that people will just never be happy with the way things are. Constantly determined to change things to their own liking. In this case, changing things to their own likings may threaten the lives of those at railroad crossings.

[Anonymous]

Grade crossing accidents will only drop significantly when local police departments give a high priority to enforcement of existing laws regarding crossings. Some motorists are more afraid of a getting a ticket than getting hit by a train.

[dharmon]

This is just one more example of rampant NIMBYism and lack of responsibility that has taken over the country.....

We want absolute security from terrorists, but cannot live with the hassles it creates to our routine

We want inexpensive products but demand higher wages and benefits, but complain when the jobs go overseas, to maintain the profit margin that funds our mutual funds and IRAs

We want airports to be located conveniently, yet not close to where we live.

We want the goverment to provide more services but want lower taxes.

We want the income that a military base brings to the community, we just don't want the soldieres and sailors to be on it.

We want trains to operate safely but not to make any noise in doing so, but are quick to sue when we get hit, because we went around the crossing arms and didn't see or hear the train.....

When alot of us were kids, if you played with fire, you got burned...but you probably didn't do it again. Now, we eliminate the fire, so kids can't get hurt, so they have no concept of why it is dangerous. It's like guns, take you kid to the range and show them how to properly use a firearm and they get an appreciation of it. Or let them see one for the first time with their friends and then it becomes a toy and someone gets hurt.

I just see this as one more example of how our country is headed....

[WDGF]

dharmon;

You're right on target. Over in Dallas, they've had folks moving into the flight-path of Love Field, and complaining to the city to do something about the noise. Similar case with a shooting range up in McKinney. I just can't comprehend how self-centered these people have to be to come up with this rubbish.

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BlackhawkNRHS

Grade crossing accidents will only drop significantly when local police departments give a high priority to enforcement of existing laws regarding crossings. Some motorists are more afraid of a getting a ticket than getting hit by a train.

I can tell you now that's not going to happen. Most departments are short on manpower. Budget crunches hit city and county police just like other businesses. No one will get laid off, but positions will go unfilled. When you're up to your eyeballs in B&Es, domestic disturbances, drunk drivers and other idiots, rail crossing violations get pushed aside. Occasionally a department will have a week long "awareness campaign" on railroad violations. They'll have officers ride with train crews and look for violations. I would love to see more enforcement, but the manpower is just not there. Personally, when emergency calls slack off if I hear a train on the scanner, I'll go setup at a crossing and try to catch violaters. Got one Saturday night. wasn't happy when I told him I don't give warnings on crossing violations. [:D]

Derrick

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WDGF

dharmon;

You're right on target. Over in Dallas, they've had folks moving into the flight-path of Love Field, and complaining to the city to do something about the noise. Similar case with a shooting range up in McKinney. I just can't comprehend how self-centered these people have to be to come up with this rubbish.

Heard the same song and dance from the public in OKC in the 70's when a fighter crashed near a school built under the flight path. "Move the runways!" They cried.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Personally, when emergency calls slack off if I hear a train on the scanner, I'll go setup at a crossing and try to catch violaters. Got one Saturday night. wasn't happy when I told him I don't give warnings on crossing violations. [:D]

Derrick

You're a good man. Sometimes I wish I could use my red lights for traffic stops. They frown on fire chiefs doing that, though...[:D]

CSX recently had a problem with a southbound locally - totally blocked one crossing, but for some reason the gates stayed down on another, even though marker was well beyond it (ie, several hundred yards). At least the city cops were there to wave folks through the gates. If they hadn't been, I'm sure most folks would have eventually gone around anyhow.

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

QUOTE: Personally, when emergency calls slack off if I hear a train on the scanner, I'll go setup at a crossing and try to catch violaters. Got one Saturday night. wasn't happy when I told him I don't give warnings on crossing violations. [:D]

Derrick

You're a good man. Sometimes I wish I could use my red lights for traffic stops. They frown on fire chiefs doing that, though...[:D]

That's probably a good way to become an EX-fire chief.[:D]

[Big_Boy_4005]

So, if this passes whats next. Restriction of engine noise, then wheel noise.... If people don't like railroad noise, they should move. The railroads were there first !

[phbrown]

What's the history behind measuring the sound 15 ft. above the rail? Who's listening up there? Birds?
Hmm, maybe the sinister hand behind this is the Audubon Society [:)].

AntonioFP45 suggests an interesting point: what they should *really* be measuring is the sound level inside a car.

Not, sadly, that people will listen anyway.

I've always wondered what the problems are with 4-quadrant gates and medians. Is it just cost?

Peace,
--Peter

[Anonymous]

I used to work on the RR then I drove school bus If they will not stop for the stop arm and flashing red lights for a school bus then why blow a horn
if they git hit the law says it's there falt the RR owns the land the crossing
is there for you to cross maybe we need to have no crossings
then the RR will make us pay more in taxes so there will be no crossings we
will have to have a bridge or tunel over/under the crossing
remember they own the land and don't have to have highway rail crossings
they do it in Japan for the high speed trains back in the old days there were laws that said if you were going to hit something open it up as fast as you can
and hit it hard to kill it this was the law for express trains way back when
People need to slow down and smell the coffee the train will win they will win in court so read your darn drivers ed book it is in black and white train crossings look and listen and stop if you have to as for the train will not
but hay again the don't stop for school bus with stop arms can't pull over for fire
or ambulance why think they will stop for a train !?! [:)]

Added 08/30/04
Blow it LONG and Hard wish we could go back to the Steam whistle they sound so much nicer and can be heared for a LONG way !!!!
If you Don't like the horn why do you live near the tracks? Again I say let them be blown
Long and Hard so I don't have to try and save a life of some one who was hit by a train
becouse some *&^^ can't deal with takeing responsibility for them self so they got hit by a train BTW I have been in 3 RR crossing crashes 2 when I worked for the RR Museum
and 1 as a passenger on Amtrak and yes the horn was blowing People just need to get a clue!!!
[^]

[mudchicken]

rebelfdl: NEWS FLASH- City Ordinance is worthless! Superceded by federal rule...

Mr. Brown: 4 quadrant gates are going to cost somebody another $150-200,000.00
If not placed correctly, they will still allow motorists to bypass. IF a gate arm is much more than 24 feet long, they tend to break in wind or inclement weather requiring islands and additional gates to be built. With each state getting $1 Million a year in Federal Section 400 monies, not many gates get built. Medians create safety problems for signal maintainers safety. (especially from drunk drivers)...most states have a paperwork (application/decision) process that further bogs the process down during the acceptance/implementation process.

[Anonymous]

In Australia most of the level crossings have been removed from Sydney and surrounding suburbs due to accidents. The most notable level crossing is on Parramatta Road where suburban electric trains and goods trains cross each half hour to hour. Gates, lights and a light tap of the horn is all that protects thousands of motorists travelling one of the main routes between Sydney and Parramatta.

I believe what I am saying is horns, lights and gates only have effect on those who obey thier meaning. Maybe on black spots put a barrier in place that can not be gotten around by motorists and pedestrians alike. Also I like the idea of horns on the crossing as out here we have bells and sirens.

One day I want to travel to the States to enjoy some of your hospitality and travel on some of the best trains in the world, and possibly then I might more qualified to weigh in on this argument. But I see the same thing happening here in Australian society we are going the way of the lawyer and becoming a litiguous society.

Cheers and have a wonderful Christmas and happy new year from your friend in the land of OZ, David.

[kenfath]

In the late 1960's I worked at the ATSF Chicago Coach Yards. Whenever the passenger power, mostly F-units, was moved in the service/roundhouse area the horns would be sounded as a warning. On occasion an off note muted sound would be heard. The explanation was that a large bird had met its demise at the trumpet end of the horn. The carcass would seal off the horn. It was always a debate as to who would remove the remains. Apparently the work rules didn't specify if a pipefitter, machinist or laborer had the task.

Just wondering, will a locomotive with a horn that experiences this kind of malfunction need to be set out or swapped with another unit? This is another example of a problem solved and many more created.

[Anonymous]

another nimby attack!! ok, if they don't want the horns. don't cry on tv when someone you know or love tries to be a tough guy and go under the gates (if any), and that's it. safety and common sense go together. it's the people who sit in front of the tv all day, and don't want to hear the horn, while watching mindless reality shows, and can't hear the tv? maybe, maybe not. still, this is a reality show that no one takes seriously anymore. gates are not enough. i say this, if the horns go away, you are on your own with your fate. we need the horns, they are loud, but that is the whole idea. if it bothers you whiny people out there, then move!! most cases, the railroad was there before you. these are the people who like lawsuits as a sport. "the engineer didn't blow the horn"!! when you think about it, he or she should not have to, but people are so oblivious with their loud stereos, cell phones, etc., that staying alert is too much of a challenge!!! can't walk and chew gum at the same time? ... get out of your car, and take your test over! keep the horns, it's more music than most of this crap blasting out of these goofy kids cars anyway. support O.L !!!!

[JoeUmp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by davidpj1

One day I want to travel to the States to enjoy some of your hospitality and travel on some of the best trains in the world, and possibly then I might more qualified to weigh in on this argument. But I see the same thing happening here in Australian society we are going the way of the lawyer and becoming a litiguous society.

David,

Welcome from the U.S. IMHO if you are experiecing the same problem down under, then you are more than qualified to comment here.

Ilve about a mile from the nearest grade crossing and love to hear the horn when ever the local short line comes through. Even at 3:00 in the morning.[:)]

Joe

[Anonymous]

From: (Dave)[e-mail]
You've got to be kidding about reducing the sounding range of loco horns, that's just
asking for mass fatalities. I live about one third of a mile from the main NS double track
mainline in my town, and between a half dozen crossings, and sure, it gets loud sometimes, but mainly in Winter when the foliage has dropped and the wind is blowing from the East. It's never awakened me! I also happen to be a FRA licensed Engineer for
the Spencer Shortline, part of the North Carolina Transportation Museum's Tourist ride. I
should say the entire complex of tracks at our facility are the Spencer Shortline. We connect with NS on both ends so we abide by all Federal Rules and Licensure. We also
have several Public crossings on the property and in the past 5 years I've been challenged
by at least 5 Schoolbuses that failed to stop as required by law; one semi gasoline tanker;
two fuel trucks, and numerous private vehicles, and I'm just one of 18 or so Engineers who probably have their own horror stories. Thank God we've never had an incident, but
it isn't because the public hasn't tried. We use our Bells, Horns, whistles, and we do lay on them, not for play, but for safety, and we do have some classic Nathans and Leslies
that can wake the dead, and we make good use of them. I have many NS friends who tell
me that all Engineers will have an accident, not if, but when! You can always tell the ones
who have from those waiting to have by the way they use their horns! As I've told my wife
and neighbors, the louder they are, the more serious the accident they were involved in.
So Poppycock to these NIMBYS, maybe a horn will save their SUV driving, cell phone talking, make-up applying butts someday!!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RTB01

I just read in USA Today (12/18/2003 page 16A) a regulation proposal that would set the maximum volume of train horns and whistles at 110 decibels (as loud as a car horn) and prohibit sounding the horn or whistle more than 20 seconds from a crossing. It seems people have been complaining and the government is listening. This proposal doesn't seem like a good idea to me . In fact I think it sounds unsafe for motorists and pedestrians. The Federal Railroad Administration will take comments from the public for 60 days.

[Anonymous]

I think your government authorities are a bunch of "plonkers".
HELLO! , is the locomotive's whistle not a warning device!
What happens to all the dead people then at the crossings who didn't get enough warning.
If you live beside the railroad track, then you except all the sounds. It's a bit like those people that build beside an airport then complain about the aircraft noise????
Come on get real !!!

[Anonymous]

well, you see, here in the good ol' US of A, some people can live near the tracks all their lives, and then write letters to the government saying that rail lines should be removed and replaced with tractor-trailer and bus only highways, "Because trucks are better and trains are useless". I Know, Ive met some of them in my homr town (Which pretty much was founded by the railroad)

[cypriano]

For years---even going back to C&NW days---Chicago's Metra North Service going thru Wilmette, Winnetka, Highland Park & Lake Forest NEVER (well, seldom) blows the horn. Yet on the nearby North Central service going thru
Mundelein, Gray's Lake, Lake Villa and Antioch, I would hear engineers leaning on the horn---many times even as the entered the crossing so I could get the full Doppler Effect. Now they're experimenting with fixed horns at the crossing aimed at toward the roadway. Just seems like another way for railway equipment people to sell hardware.

[tnchpsk8]

I feel just the opposite. Here in central Tennessee we had two fatalities at the same crossing this year. It's quite possible that the victims could have been using their cell phones or were otherwise distracted. Train horns should be so loud and alarming that you can't help but notice them and react accordingly.

[vsmith]

Funny, I thought horns and gates were there to WARN us, guess they are really just their to annoy the nieghbors...How about this:

Install those rotating warning lights like on top of police cars and fire trucks on to the grade crossing warning lights, at least that would give drivers a clear-bright-visual -hey-look-at-this warning if they cant hear the new low volumn horns or bells (or see the lowered gates) inside their Luxury SUV's, If they are still stupid or impatient enough to ignore the signals then we also install large snowplow like devices to the noses of locos so that they can brush aside these morons without damaging or derailing the train.

Of course it would only be a matter of time before someone started complainning " the light are to bright, I can see them from my house, whah! whah!"

[Anonymous]

I think it is rediculous that people complain about train horns. I've lived beside railway tracks all my life. (CN and CP mainlines on either side of my house.) Because I have heard them all my life, then it doesn't bother me at all. I can understand the plea of people who live literally right beside the tracks-- close enough to rattle chinaware, etc. But most people should be able to get used to it. I have friends who moved to a house near the tracks. (Their old house was far from any railroad.) At first it woke them up every night when it passed through with the horns blaring. But after about 12 months, they slept right through it. As others have mentioned, people usually don't listen to the horns and bells, ignore the flashing lights, and drive around the gates. But if an unlucky motorist or pedestrian had these warnings, then it obviously isn't the railroad's fault. Its better to have the warning then not. Is a human life more important then an irritated homeowner?

~ðrågóñsläµér

[vsmith]

I thought this was relavent to the conversation, found and confirmed true on the Darwin Awards site:

"(2 August 2002, Kansas) Police said an Olathe man was struck and killed by a train after his vehicle broke down on Interstate 35. His attempts at repairing his car had failed, and he had stepped away from the busy freeway to call for help, when the train engineer spotted him standing on the tracks. The engineer said the man was holding a cell phone to one ear, and cupping his hand to the other ear to block the noise of the train."

If this idiot woudn't listen to the horn, what can you do? Fence off 1000's of miles of track I guess and spend milllions to seperate all grade crossings? Yeah, like our Gov will spend a penny for that...

[dharmon]

Which goes back to the idea of a capaciter and ZAPP....... Or maybe give all the train crews pellet guns......Hello stupid......pop.......hey what was that .....pop.....whoa train......

[Anonymous]

To quiet the train horns is the last thing we need to do. If anything, with all the DUMB A$$'s out there we need to make them louder, thats just my 2 cents.

[Anonymous]

Ive got an Idea! Replace gates with collomns of fire, shooting up from the roadway! People will not want to catch their car on fire (Unless their bigger idiots than the wourld should have to handle), so they have to stop! Kind of goes along with the capacitor.

[Anonymous]

I settled into chair with coffee to read this thread and got to where the sound levels were to be and I had to speak up.

If you are going to have 4 6000 Horse deisals thundering and roaring to keep that 110 car train rolling over the slight grade my town sits at about 30 miles an hour that 110 deciable horn will disappear into the screech of the turbos.

They run heavy and fast.. It takes 16 seconds for top speed from first whistle to crossing gates and train on crossing. Sometimes they would be a mile and just finishing a meet the gates go down a minute passes and no train, suddenly the drama of impatient drivers finding themselfs confronting a blasting horn 20 yards away is too much to watch.

The range of 100 feet specified in the whistle is too little and very unsafe. The main reason to whistle is to clear the track NOW and if you want to live wait until the train passes.

IF you cannot stand a train whistle maybe a option of putting home on market and moving at least 10 miles from the track may be needed.

I have to smile also because truckers are buying the very same railroad whistles and placing them on their rigs. I would be so tickled to see these same lawmakers considering this bill to have on of those go off nearby on the interstate. The very ground shakes.

I am in support of good whistles and common sense dictates that people wait becuase after all a train is much bigger than they are and have power to kill or main if they choose to try and save a minute of time. It could mean forever. Dont go around those gates.

[Anonymous]

As was well put in a reaction by a friend of mine, "What are they? Murderers?" People need to think this through, and OL should show more TV commercials. I saw a few from a TV cannel up in York PA, and OL has some good, graphic ones.

I don't know what it was, but there was a show on TLC one day that had footago of vehicles stuck on crossings as trains came by. If they showed these mor often (Mayby even Big Screen TVs at crossings) people would be less willing to weave the gates. One wasa test, and had a Brand new pickup truck being hit by a train consisting of chemical tank cars and at least 1 loco. The train kept going, but the truck almost snapped in half. Other footage has: a van being smashed to pieces, a car causing sparks along the rails, a tractor trailer being thrown up in the air in pieces, and trains that didn't make it eather (Wreck scenes and hoppers on top of homes), and much more. On the other hand, i guess the destruction of the Delorian on Back to the future III wasn't enough to sink in.