On Board Video Of a Head On. (Well, Close Enough)

[canazar]

Hope this isnt a repost.  Didnt see it on the board, but I wanted to share.

 

For all those that have wondered would it would be like, now you know.   One thing that struck me profoundly that I have never thought of...you have alot of time to think about it before it happens

 

::::::EDIT:::::   This link no longer works.  It was removed from the site.   Farther in the thread, another member has posted to another hosting site.

http://s45.photobucket.com/albums/f95/leoncrooks/?action=view&current=Trainmeet.flv

 

Anyone know any history or news of this?  I dont have any info.

 

[CNW 6000]

Wow...scary.

[AntonioFP45]

Absolutely incredible.  I can only imagine how horrifying it must have been for both crews.  I hope that all of them survived!

It appeared that the opposing locomotive was not clear of the switch and the "Fireman's side" of both engines were smacked. 

Thanks for sharing. 

 

[solzrules]

YOWZAAAAA!

That sounded like it hurt.

[edblysard]

Look closer, you can see the opposing engineer bail out the rear door, and the last few seconds you can tell he is in emergency application...look at the smoke coming off the train brakes...he ran past or missed his last signal.

 

[youngengineer]

That happened in California, I forget the name of the siding, opposing train was not slowing their train for a stop, I never heard the full details on what exactly happened, you can see the facing signal change from clear to red near the end, The crew that was in the right had no warning what was happening.

[ericsp]

That happened in California, I forget the name of the siding, opposing train was not slowing their train for a stop, I never heard the full details on what exactly happened, you can see the facing signal change from clear to red near the end, The crew that was in the right had no warning what was happening.

That was the Kismet (just north of Madera) wreck that happened last June. I wonder why they call it the cornfield wreck. There were no cornfields around there. In June the corn would be tall.

[greyhounds]

That was the Kismet (just north of Madera) wreck that happened last June. I wonder why they call it the cornfield wreck. There were no cornfields around there. In June the corn would be tall.

"Cornfield Meet" is old time railroad lingo for a head on.  You know.."They met in a cornfield".

That is scary.

[ericsp]

Here is a link to the thread about the release of the NTSB report.
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/1062873/ShowPost.aspx

For some reason, the NTSB still does not have the report online, even after more than two months.

[snagletooth]

WOW. That's aahh.... Well?

It looked like the opposing train was still rolling.

 Side note, I always understood a cornfield meet was, yes, a head-on, but on a piece of track with no siding. Er, not in town where sidings where usually located, but out in the middle of nowwhere, like a cornfield, where there is no siding. This was at a siding. Sad nonetheless, did the crews survive?  

 

[canazar]

This is a wild peice of video.   I know techincally its not a "head on" in the true sense, but by the time the collision occured, the other train and the "video train" were shareing the same tracks.  Still scary as hell.  I am sure both trains went on their sides...

What has me wondering if the guy who jumped, survived.  I hope he didnt get crushed if his train wadded up on him.

[Railfan1]

I'm speechless. How did this video ever become public?

[Railfan1]

What about some pics of the aftermath?

[Mookie]

Look closer, you can see the opposing engineer bail out the rear door, and the last few seconds you can tell he is in emergency application...look at the smoke coming off the train brakes...he ran past or missed his last signal.

 

I paused it many times and the signal for "our" engine went from what I would presume is a diverging signal -(I can't make out the lights well enough) to a clear red over red just before the engine passes the signal.  Would that mean stop and do not pass this signal (albeit a little late!)?

[Anonymous]

What was intended to happen during this operation?  It appears that the video train ran that signal.  But if it had stopped there, what would the second train have done?  The video stops and restarts once between the first signal and the collision, so it is not evident how much distance there was between, so maybe there is some missing detail in that gap, but I cannot imagine what it would have been.

But in any case, the second train appeared to be in the process of running that switch.  Did they also run past a red board like the first train?  Or did the dispatcher throw that switch in an attempt to divert the first train in the hope that the second train would have been able to stop in the clear?  Would that even be possible to throw the switch under such circumstances?

OR--maybe that first signal was not red over red??

[edblysard]

The train we are "riding" has a diverging route indication on his signal.

The opposing train should have stopped back behind the signal on the other far side of the switch.

Note the opposing train has not dimmed his headlights, or cut his ditchlights off.

Watch it again, you can see the opposing train trip the signal system and our signal aspect changes from red over green, (diverging route) to red over red, as it should once someone ocupy the circut, which the opposing train does just as he passes the signal mast on the other side of the switch.

Note also the turnout is lined for the siding, which the control opperator has to do before our train is in the last signal circut ahead of the switch...the system wont allow the control operator to line the switch if the last approach circut is occupied, prevents the switch from being lined under a moving train.

The crew on the opposing train missed their approach signals, and had to have missed at least one approached restricted and the stop signal to get to that point on the tracks.

You can see our train slowing down comming out of the curve, which he would do if he had signals telling him he was taking a diverging route, (the siding)  and you can bet he had talked to the dispatcher or control operator prior to all of this...he expected the other train to be stopped in the clear, holding the main.

Just as "we" come into line of sight with the other train, you can tell our train slows even more...a guess would be that our crew saw the headlights on bright, looked long enough to figure out the other guy was still moving, and did a full service reduction on the brakes...most likely bailed out when they realized he was not going to stop in time, and neither were they.

 

With out reading the NTSB report, an educated guess is that the other guys were asleep...

Again, the smoke pouring off the opposing trains wheels indicates they have gone into emergency...which means they were moving at track speed just before they realized what was happening, plugged the train and bailed.

Going to read the NTSB report and see what they say...

 

Well, neither the NTSB or the FRA reports are final, but both indicate the opposing train crew (conductor)was impaired...the signal system was working correctly, the weather was not a factor, even though the opposing crew said the sunrise blinded them to the signals...it would have had to "blind" them for at least three signals for them to get to this point on the tracks at this speed...

[mikeyuhas]

I'm speechless. How did this video ever become public?

 

That's a real good question. Seeing as the clip is no longer on that site, I'd guess it wasn't supposed to be.

 

[rrnut282]

This video was posted on another railfan site I go to and others said:  all crew members survived with only minor injuries; the three-man crew on the opposing train fell asleep until it was too late to stopand they bailed;  the crew on the video train rode it out; opposing train was 7 locos and 55 cars; video train 5 locos and 30 cars; a total of 24 cars and locomotives derailed.  I cannot confirm these details as they are "third hand" and should be treated as such.

[spikejones52002]

I only got to view the video once. Then a message came on telling me that the video was removed and is not available.

I shot many video out the front window. None looked like this.

I think this is a train simulator video.

Does anyone have actual facts of just could be/have happened.

[edblysard]

http://search.google.dot.gov/FRA/FRASearchProcess.asp?ie=&site=DOT_Pages&output=xml_no_dtd&client=DOT_Pages&lr=&proxystylesheet=DOT_Pages&oe=&q=june+14+2007&fra_only=1&GoSearch.x=15&GoSearch.y=13

 

From the FRA...

I only got to view the video once. Then a message came on telling me that the video was removed and is not available.

I shot many video out the front window. None looked like this.

I think this is a train simulator video.

Does anyone have actual facts of just could be/have happened.

[Anonymous]

 

Watch it again, you can see the opposing train trip the signal system and our signal aspect changes from red over green, (diverging route) to red over red, as it should once someone ocupy the circut, which the opposing train does just as he passes the signal mast on the other side of the switch.

I thought I was seeing, at first, a green aspect on that signal the first train passed, but when the camera got closer, it looked like red over red.  I did not start/stop to check it out, but just concluded that it was red all along.  Your explanation that it changed by the violation of the oppsing train makes sence.  But even if that signal did go red right in their face, would they not have been required to see it and stop, even if they could not stop short of it?  Don't they have to watch and react to every signal right up to the point where they pass it and can no longer see it?

That brings up another question.  Wouldn't the dispatcher see that the first train passed a red board and communicate the error to the crews of both trains?  When the first train got the red signal in their face, did that mean the other train was passing a red board at that moment?  Wouldn't the dispatcher have seen this whole thing unfolding? 

[Mookie]

 

Watch it again, you can see the opposing train trip the signal system and our signal aspect changes from red over green, (diverging route) to red over red, as it should once someone ocupy the circut, which the opposing train does just as he passes the signal mast on the other side of the switch.

I thought I was seeing, at first, a green aspect on that signal the first train passed, but when the camera got closer, it looked like red over red.  I did not start/stop to check it out, but just concluded that it was red all along.  Your explanation that it changed by the violation of the oppsing train makes sence.  But even if that signal did go red right in their face, would they not have been required to see it and stop, even if they could not stop short of it?  Don't they have to watch and react to every signal right up to the point where they pass it and can no longer see it?

That brings up another question.  Wouldn't the dispatcher see that the first train passed a red board and communicate the error to the crews of both trains?  When the first train got the red signal in their face, did that mean the other train was passing a red board at that moment?  Wouldn't the dispatcher have seen this whole thing unfolding? 

Don't know about the dispatcher, but I have a feeling "our" train was in emergency starting before they passed their own signal. 

[chad thomas]

 

Watch it again, you can see the opposing train trip the signal system and our signal aspect changes from red over green, (diverging route) to red over red, as it should once someone ocupy the circut, which the opposing train does just as he passes the signal mast on the other side of the switch.

I thought I was seeing, at first, a green aspect on that signal the first train passed, but when the camera got closer, it looked like red over red.  I did not start/stop to check it out, but just concluded that it was red all along.  Your explanation that it changed by the violation of the oppsing train makes sence.  But even if that signal did go red right in their face, would they not have been required to see it and stop, even if they could not stop short of it?  Don't they have to watch and react to every signal right up to the point where they pass it and can no longer see it?

That brings up another question.  Wouldn't the dispatcher see that the first train passed a red board and communicate the error to the crews of both trains?  When the first train got the red signal in their face, did that mean the other train was passing a red board at that moment?  Wouldn't the dispatcher have seen this whole thing unfolding? 

I would say the odds of a dispatcher looking at that block occupancy when that happened is pretty slim. Dispatchers work large and sometime multiple territories and have much more responsibilities then just lineing routes and watching the screen.

Darn, I couldn't see the video I guess it's been removed.

[khhogger]

It was not a simulator, it was real. It was recorded with the on board camera mounted on the locomotive. Road Foreman of Engines showed me this video at a safety meeting.

[rji2]

Well, I didn't get to see the video, it was no longer being shown, but from the comments of those who did get to see it, all this would have taken place in seconds, and there was no time for the video train to completely stop nor for the train dispatcher to give any kind of warning.  Furthermore, when the opposing train passed the stop signal and entered the OS track circuit, the dispatcher, if he had been observing that control point at that moment in time, would have reasoned that the occupancy of the OS track circuit would have resulted from the arrival of the video train.

[Anonymous]

Well, I didn't get to see the video, it was no longer being shown, but from the comments of those who did get to see it, all this would have taken place in seconds, and there was no time for the video train to completely stop nor for the train dispatcher to give any kind of warning.  .

There appeared to be at least a mile from the point where the video train passed the red signal and the point of collision.  The video must have run 20-25 seconds between those two points, and it stopped about midway and re-started with an entirely different viewpoint.  It does not seem likely that the video train went into emergency when their signal went red in their face.  If they did, it sure looked like they would have gotten stropped in time.  And if they did not go into emergency when they got a red signal in their face, why not? 

[blhanel]

IIRC, the signal you're thinking of was not displaying Red-Red, it was displaying Red-Yellow, and the signal at the point of the collision was initially displaying Red-Green.  Judging from the video, the crew probably thought things were fine up until they were just a few hundred yards from the turn-out, where they realized that the other train was still moving towards them.  By that point it was too late.

Would there have been a change in the audio level of some sort on that recording if the crew had put it into emergency?

[MP173]

I didnt get to see the video....sounds pretty scary. 

ed

[PBenham]

It certainly was not for the squeamish! I haven't felt that way watching a video since the ball rolling through Buckner's legs and... Well, we'll always have 2004!

I'd be willing to guess that that video was pulled- but a bit late- I'd bet that it has been subpoenaed by lawyers on both sides of the inevitable litigation to come.

[Railfan1]

This video was posted on another railfan site I go to and others said:  all crew members survived with only minor injuries; the three-man crew on the opposing train fell asleep until it was too late to stopand they bailed;  the crew on the video train rode it out; opposing train was 7 locos and 55 cars; video train 5 locos and 30 cars; a total of 24 cars and locomotives derailed.  I cannot confirm these details as they are "third hand" and should be treated as such.

Is the video still viewable on the other site. If so what is the site address (PM it to me if you want).