chad thomas wrote: vsmith wrote: gabe wrote: vsmith wrote: chad thomas wrote: gabe wrote: Actually, My railroad resume is pretty pathetic. I own a railroad, and it routinely loses money. I insist on buying orange and while Illinois Central units even though there is need for considerable track work and siding built for my customers, and the cost of roling stock keeps going through the roof. It has one heck of a legal department though . . . Gabe Now that's funny!!!! Methinks this RR might also fit in a spare bedroom or basement. My legal department is attempting to use the government's power of eminent domain to acquire the more spacious and dry attic. However, my wife's legal department has since reminded me who truly has the right of way . . . . I think I would much rather deal with the STB any day. Gabe I've been having the same "legal access" troubles myself for awhile now ... Hey, At least you guys have the real estate to get access to.......(apartment liveing sucks)
vsmith wrote: gabe wrote: vsmith wrote: chad thomas wrote: gabe wrote: Actually, My railroad resume is pretty pathetic. I own a railroad, and it routinely loses money. I insist on buying orange and while Illinois Central units even though there is need for considerable track work and siding built for my customers, and the cost of roling stock keeps going through the roof. It has one heck of a legal department though . . . Gabe Now that's funny!!!! Methinks this RR might also fit in a spare bedroom or basement. My legal department is attempting to use the government's power of eminent domain to acquire the more spacious and dry attic. However, my wife's legal department has since reminded me who truly has the right of way . . . . I think I would much rather deal with the STB any day. Gabe I've been having the same "legal access" troubles myself for awhile now ...
gabe wrote: vsmith wrote: chad thomas wrote: gabe wrote: Actually, My railroad resume is pretty pathetic. I own a railroad, and it routinely loses money. I insist on buying orange and while Illinois Central units even though there is need for considerable track work and siding built for my customers, and the cost of roling stock keeps going through the roof. It has one heck of a legal department though . . . Gabe Now that's funny!!!! Methinks this RR might also fit in a spare bedroom or basement. My legal department is attempting to use the government's power of eminent domain to acquire the more spacious and dry attic. However, my wife's legal department has since reminded me who truly has the right of way . . . . I think I would much rather deal with the STB any day. Gabe
vsmith wrote: chad thomas wrote: gabe wrote: Actually, My railroad resume is pretty pathetic. I own a railroad, and it routinely loses money. I insist on buying orange and while Illinois Central units even though there is need for considerable track work and siding built for my customers, and the cost of roling stock keeps going through the roof. It has one heck of a legal department though . . . Gabe Now that's funny!!!! Methinks this RR might also fit in a spare bedroom or basement.
chad thomas wrote: gabe wrote: Actually, My railroad resume is pretty pathetic. I own a railroad, and it routinely loses money. I insist on buying orange and while Illinois Central units even though there is need for considerable track work and siding built for my customers, and the cost of roling stock keeps going through the roof. It has one heck of a legal department though . . . Gabe Now that's funny!!!!
gabe wrote: Actually, My railroad resume is pretty pathetic. I own a railroad, and it routinely loses money. I insist on buying orange and while Illinois Central units even though there is need for considerable track work and siding built for my customers, and the cost of roling stock keeps going through the roof. It has one heck of a legal department though . . . Gabe
Actually,
My railroad resume is pretty pathetic. I own a railroad, and it routinely loses money. I insist on buying orange and while Illinois Central units even though there is need for considerable track work and siding built for my customers, and the cost of roling stock keeps going through the roof.
It has one heck of a legal department though . . .
Gabe
Now that's funny!!!!
My legal department is attempting to use the government's power of eminent domain to acquire the more spacious and dry attic. However, my wife's legal department has since reminded me who truly has the right of way . . . . I think I would much rather deal with the STB any day.
Hey, At least you guys have the real estate to get access to.......(apartment liveing sucks)
Have fun with your trains
Limitedclear wrote: Two words guys: Steel Building Mine works great. Away from the family, I can put two of my locomotives in it and my office has my law library, a cot and bathroom with a shower if I have "legal" issues at home... LC
Two words guys:
Steel Building
Mine works great. Away from the family, I can put two of my locomotives in it and my office has my law library, a cot and bathroom with a shower if I have "legal" issues at home...
LC
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Real or older men?Sorry, couldn't resist. My Dad tells me much the same thing. However, my first train memories were the orange and while Paducha rebuilds and the axing of the IC line through Mt. Olive, Illinois forever cemented those orange and white units for me. Wabash/N&W/NS just were not the same for me.
greyhounds wrote: Real men buy black with green diamonds.
Real men buy black with green diamonds.
Not sure how that will look on my finger, but hey - anything with diamonds is appreciated!
TheAntiGates wrote: Poppa_Zit wrote: I just like to see a level playing field, that's all. I agree, the White Sox ARE playing like a bunch of girls
Poppa_Zit wrote: I just like to see a level playing field, that's all.
I just like to see a level playing field, that's all.
Although one of the Thought Police here is sure to be quick to point out that the phrase "playing like girls" is not PC.
I never was much of a Sox fan. My Dad was/is a huge Cubs fan and passed on the disease to his sprouts, but the Cubbies have disappointed me so many times over the years I've finally given up. So I just "root" -- meaning if they do well, fine, but if they don't I refuse to let it ruin my day.
Gabe -
Welcome to the short line business. I expect to see you at all the meetings. I need somebody good to spell me on the many legal committees too. We should talk about the many creative ways to run your business...
Having a great legal department counts for more than you think...
I wonder how that goes in Russian?
Just occurred to me…if Mike knows who makes how many posting in what threads, on what subjects…then he would be keeping score, and tracking who post where…sounds like the real thread stalker has come out of the closet after all…
TheAntiGates wrote: edblysard wrote: Better yet, if the priest presents himself as a expert on astrophysics, then his background and education would matter, yes?…or do you routinely hand over a running reactor to someone who only tells you they know what to do in a loss of coolant accident? Not to mention the terror that would accompany turning over a reactor to an operator who's "solution" for problem solving begins with a recital of the lords prayer
edblysard wrote: Better yet, if the priest presents himself as a expert on astrophysics, then his background and education would matter, yes?…or do you routinely hand over a running reactor to someone who only tells you they know what to do in a loss of coolant accident?
Better yet, if the priest presents himself as a expert on astrophysics, then his background and education would matter, yes?…or do you routinely hand over a running reactor to someone who only tells you they know what to do in a loss of coolant accident?
Not to mention the terror that would accompany turning over a reactor to an operator who's "solution" for problem solving begins with a recital of the lords prayer
23 17 46 11
edblysard wrote:Better yet, if the priest presents himself as a expert on astrophysics, then his background and education would matter, yes?…or do you routinely hand over a running reactor to someone who only tells you they know what to do in a loss of coolant accident?
vsmith wrote: Just another flamefest, got any hot dogs, someone hide the popcorn machine, Oh Chad?
Figgured were gunna need a few buckets for this thread.
Pathfinder wrote: Randy Stahl wrote: Great ... another thread gone to waste , yet another waste of time about forum members and personalitys, not much useful info here for sure . I'm new here, does this happen a lot?
Randy Stahl wrote: Great ... another thread gone to waste , yet another waste of time about forum members and personalitys, not much useful info here for sure .
Great ... another thread gone to waste , yet another waste of time about forum members and personalitys, not much useful info here for sure .
Yes. However, its nice to see people so passionate about something they enjoy.
MichaelSol wrote:It's an internet phenomenon of the tyranny permitted by fake names brandishing fake credentials when they can't hold their own in a straightforward argument. It's the ad hominem attack allowed to a coward hiding behind a keyboard when he can't articulate an argument or express a reasonable thought. and can get away with anything in cyberspace, hiding behind his fake name. Not a thing fake about my name, location, or the railroad I work for. You met them on the playground. Now they have computers and some allege that they work for railroads although they could work anywhere ....As I have mentioned, in my experience, "real" railroaders are of a different quality than the people who speak loudly to their own credentials here. I've never seen such a smug bunch of self-congratulatory people as this bunch. I am fortunate to have known and worked with the ones that I have -- maybe the quality is declining, who knows? I sure hope these guys aren't the standard. Cant judge, you refuse to tell us what position you held, with what railroad. In any case, judge them by their ideas, their arguments, and their ability to get through a post with their integrity intact. Doesn't happen often with these guys. I am sure knowledgeable people, railroader and non-railroader alike, will post less and less if the penalty is always a barrage of derogatory remarks from a small group of self-appointed "railroaders" who believe it is their god-given right to troll from thread to thread, just to insult people: witness Blysard's comments above, and several other threads I neither posted to nor cared to read. They disagree with some things people say. Most honest people are content to say they disagree. Not that bunch. I think I am probably the only person here who actually stated I didn't know enough about Open Access to have much of an opinion either way on it. Check back if you're curious on Blysard's torrent of abuse to that thought, and his self-righteous and bizarre accusation that the State of Montana wasn't officially doing enough to help Hurricane Katrina victims, and how that was relevant to my "credibility" at the time. I mean, serious screw-loose stuff. Where do you get this nonsense from? You routinly twist what people write to fit your needs, sad.Blysard's obsessed, but I never seem to see him actually argue a proposition, or present a cogent position on any of the few things I ever post about -- primarily Milwaukee, which I know something about, and BNSF, which I follow as an investor. Indeed, none of the gentlemen ever seem to know much at all about my relatively limited range of interests in railroading. But, not knowing something doesn't seem to limit their seemingly endless diatribes -- this thread now standing for their proposition that unverifiable credentials offered under a fake name should be a substitute for knowing something about the topic at hand. Again, where you get this stuff from? Never said that at all, you twist what was said to present yourself as a aggreived party...instead of answering the question asked...LC is right, your table is pretty beat up looking.Many wasted threads from this bunch. Tharmeni, you are absolutely correct, this has become an "ambush" internet forum for these guys. If there were a moratorium on negative postings, they wouldn't have anything to say.
Not a thing fake about my name, location, or the railroad I work for.
You met them on the playground. Now they have computers and some allege that they work for railroads although they could work anywhere ....As I have mentioned, in my experience, "real" railroaders are of a different quality than the people who speak loudly to their own credentials here. I've never seen such a smug bunch of self-congratulatory people as this bunch. I am fortunate to have known and worked with the ones that I have -- maybe the quality is declining, who knows? I sure hope these guys aren't the standard.
Cant judge, you refuse to tell us what position you held, with what railroad.
In any case, judge them by their ideas, their arguments, and their ability to get through a post with their integrity intact. Doesn't happen often with these guys. I am sure knowledgeable people, railroader and non-railroader alike, will post less and less if the penalty is always a barrage of derogatory remarks from a small group of self-appointed "railroaders" who believe it is their god-given right to troll from thread to thread, just to insult people: witness Blysard's comments above, and several other threads I neither posted to nor cared to read. They disagree with some things people say. Most honest people are content to say they disagree. Not that bunch. I think I am probably the only person here who actually stated I didn't know enough about Open Access to have much of an opinion either way on it. Check back if you're curious on Blysard's torrent of abuse to that thought, and his self-righteous and bizarre accusation that the State of Montana wasn't officially doing enough to help Hurricane Katrina victims, and how that was relevant to my "credibility" at the time. I mean, serious screw-loose stuff.
Where do you get this nonsense from?
You routinly twist what people write to fit your needs, sad.Blysard's obsessed, but I never seem to see him actually argue a proposition, or present a cogent position on any of the few things I ever post about -- primarily Milwaukee, which I know something about, and BNSF, which I follow as an investor. Indeed, none of the gentlemen ever seem to know much at all about my relatively limited range of interests in railroading. But, not knowing something doesn't seem to limit their seemingly endless diatribes -- this thread now standing for their proposition that unverifiable credentials offered under a fake name should be a substitute for knowing something about the topic at hand.
Again, where you get this stuff from?
Never said that at all, you twist what was said to present yourself as a aggreived party...instead of answering the question asked...LC is right, your table is pretty beat up looking.Many wasted threads from this bunch. Tharmeni, you are absolutely correct, this has become an "ambush" internet forum for these guys. If there were a moratorium on negative postings, they wouldn't have anything to say.
nanaimo73 wrote: MichaelSol wrote: ...and BNSF, which I follow as an investor. Michael, do you own any BNSF stock currently ?
MichaelSol wrote: ...and BNSF, which I follow as an investor.
Michael, do you own any BNSF stock currently ?
Tharmeni wrote: I think the forum is endangered -- and I believe it's because there are more negative posters out there who seem to lay in wait to "ambush" the topic of a poster. If you doubt me, please read the thread "Another Very Late Amtrak Today" . It's a legitimate topic, but poster Mr Runyon's only contribution was to criticize it. When I called him on it, he took off after me. Which I found sad, frankly. If my son, a budding railfan, was to post "What's the difference between a GP-7 and a GP-9?", I suppose some would jump all over him for asking a stupid or basic question. But we need all postings. Even the basic ones. That's how we grow, folks. How about a moratorium on negative postings? That way, we would encourage others to join in without the danger of being cut apart.
I think the forum is endangered -- and I believe it's because there are more negative posters out there who seem to lay in wait to "ambush" the topic of a poster.
If you doubt me, please read the thread "Another Very Late Amtrak Today" . It's a legitimate topic, but poster Mr Runyon's only contribution was to criticize it.
When I called him on it, he took off after me. Which I found sad, frankly.
If my son, a budding railfan, was to post "What's the difference between a GP-7 and a GP-9?", I suppose some would jump all over him for asking a stupid or basic question. But we need all postings. Even the basic ones. That's how we grow, folks.
How about a moratorium on negative postings? That way, we would encourage others to join in without the danger of being cut apart.
Tharmani appears to be speaking out of both sides of his mouth.
Case in point: Refer to how he jumped on a posted on 23 July at 4:31 AM:
"Re: RE: RE: Breaking, Breaking News about Amtrak Cuts on Monday July 3, 2006.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm really sick of this post.
Conrailman, if you are so fact-based, how did you post, way ,way back that these cuts were "coming on July 3" and then base it on an article you adamantly say was published on July 17th? I'm really tired of this. Others have said it before, but get the facts before you open your mouth."
Hmmmm.... I don't know about you guys, but it appears that Tharmani was criticizing a fellow poster.
Just thought I'd point that out.
MP173 wrote:Question:What is the difference between a GP9 and GP7?Some would answer 2 (9-7=2). Others would say 250 horsepower. Others would say that neither is a valid locomotive because __________(fill in the blank). Others would say that neither filled it's potential as a locomotive because they were not used on Open Access lines. Still others would simply say..."it doesnt matter because I enjoyed watching the train too much to care."We are a nerdy group (self included). But, we love trains....some of us more than people it seems (not me).ed
Sadly, the difference nowadays is set by when Gillette got the steel. It is either a 3 or 4 blade device for scraping your face in the morning...
The old lawyers proverb...
Arguing Your Case
When you have the law, pound on the law...
When you have the facts, pound on the facts...
When you have neither the law nor the facts, pound on the table...
Mikey, your table is looking pretty beat up...LOL...
Harry_Runyon wrote:I appreciate your support Poppa_Zit. Thank you.
Poppa_Zit wrote: Tharmeni wrote: I think the forum is endangered -- and I believe it's because there are more negative posters out there who seem to lay in wait to "ambush" the topic of a poster. If you doubt me, please read the thread "Another Very Late Amtrak Today" . It's a legitimate topic, but poster Mr Runyon's only contribution was to criticize it. When I called him on it, he took off after me. Which I found sad, frankly. If my son, a budding railfan, was to post "What's the difference between a GP-7 and a GP-9?", I suppose some would jump all over him for asking a stupid or basic question. But we need all postings. Even the basic ones. That's how we grow, folks. How about a moratorium on negative postings? That way, we would encourage others to join in without the danger of being cut apart. Let me see if I have all this right: Mr. Runyon criticized a post, which happens all the time here. Then you butted in to criticize Mr. Runyon for butting in and criticizing. He fired back at you, and you felt hurt, so now you decide it's time for a moratorium on negative postings. And you came here looking for some support. Well, first don't be so ridiculous to compare BNSFrailfan's silly contradictions in that Amtrak thread to your son asking the difference between a GP-7 and GP-9. Puleeze! I don't think the forum is endangered at all. I just think there are too many people who selfishly want the forum to be what they themselves think it should be, and since it won't go their way, they're upset. There's an old saying that goes: "If you can't stand dips, stay off the roller coaster."
Let me see if I have all this right:
Mr. Runyon criticized a post, which happens all the time here. Then you butted in to criticize Mr. Runyon for butting in and criticizing. He fired back at you, and you felt hurt, so now you decide it's time for a moratorium on negative postings. And you came here looking for some support.
Well, first don't be so ridiculous to compare BNSFrailfan's silly contradictions in that Amtrak thread to your son asking the difference between a GP-7 and GP-9. Puleeze!
I don't think the forum is endangered at all. I just think there are too many people who selfishly want the forum to be what they themselves think it should be, and since it won't go their way, they're upset.
There's an old saying that goes: "If you can't stand dips, stay off the roller coaster."
I don't understand why I am being singled out by "Tharmeni". There is absolutely nothing offensive in the post that I placed here. It seems to me that "Tharmeni" is the individual who is deliberately stirring up trouble and causing animosity here.
Any decisions on posts rests with the moderators...not you "Tharmeni".
Tharmeni wrote:I rest my case, your honor!
Sorry, you never had a case.
I find it amusing that YOUR only contribution to that thread, sir, was exactly the same high crime of which you accused Mr. Runyon.
You have absolutely no complaint. Case dismissed.
MichaelSol wrote:"edblysard" And, in case one hasn’t noticed, Mickey and Dave both attempt to censor who can and can not post on any thread they are involved with…note Mikes constant remark that I am not contributing…as if he has some say so in what is or is not relevant to any conversation, or who should or should not “be allowed” to post. Which runs right back to AntiGates comment about the “thread herders” and the self appointed forum police. It is the difference between a contributor and being a troll. The latter believing he has a god-given right to insult people when and where he wants and to continually waste people's time with it.
"edblysard" And, in case one hasn’t noticed, Mickey and Dave both attempt to censor who can and can not post on any thread they are involved with…note Mikes constant remark that I am not contributing…as if he has some say so in what is or is not relevant to any conversation, or who should or should not “be allowed” to post. Which runs right back to AntiGates comment about the “thread herders” and the self appointed forum police.
And, in case one hasn’t noticed, Mickey and Dave both attempt to censor who can and can not post on any thread they are involved with…note Mikes constant remark that I am not contributing…as if he has some say so in what is or is not relevant to any conversation, or who should or should not “be allowed” to post.
Which runs right back to AntiGates comment about the “thread herders” and the self appointed forum police.
It is the difference between a contributor and being a troll.
The latter believing he has a god-given right to insult people when and where he wants and to continually waste people's time with it.
I'm sure glad you posted this Mikey, it is good to hear that I was right on when I classified you as a troll...FOFLMAO...
Oh, and god didn't need to give me a right to insult you, you have done that all by yourself...
Boy, this place is really gonna seem dull after these guys finish firing their volleys.
Although, I must admit, it is difficult to refrain from constantly revisiting this thread to see what happens next in this latest "Clever Contest."
gabe wrote: wctransfer wrote:As much as people complain about the flame wars, you ALL know its fun to watch! And thats a fact! ;^) Alec I disagree. It is the incidental learning that happens to take place during some of the wars that is the fun thing. There have been so many times I have learned valuable things about freight pricing from such exchanges, that make them worth the trouble for me. Gabe
wctransfer wrote:As much as people complain about the flame wars, you ALL know its fun to watch! And thats a fact! ;^) Alec
I disagree. It is the incidental learning that happens to take place during some of the wars that is the fun thing. There have been so many times I have learned valuable things about freight pricing from such exchanges, that make them worth the trouble for me.
Indeed. Just a darn shame that FM and his buddy never seem to learn anything at all...
selector wrote: edblysard wrote: Corn Maze… . If someone is going to come on board and debate operations, then wouldn’t it make sense to know their qualifications?.... No. A priest could state that the Sun is a gravitationally balanced sphere of primarily atomic hydrogen which converts billions of tons of hydrogen to helium every second using that same force of gravity. The astrophysicist who challenges his assertion on the basis of credentials is guilty of a classic ad-hominem argument. The priest's assertion is either right or wrong. His priestliness is neither. Insisting that a person reveal his/her formal training in the field does little to settle one's differences over their assertions. What counts is the veracity and the verifiabilility of them.
edblysard wrote: Corn Maze… . If someone is going to come on board and debate operations, then wouldn’t it make sense to know their qualifications?....
Corn Maze…
.
If someone is going to come on board and debate operations, then wouldn’t it make sense to know their qualifications?....
No. A priest could state that the Sun is a gravitationally balanced sphere of primarily atomic hydrogen which converts billions of tons of hydrogen to helium every second using that same force of gravity. The astrophysicist who challenges his assertion on the basis of credentials is guilty of a classic ad-hominem argument.
The priest's assertion is either right or wrong. His priestliness is neither. Insisting that a person reveal his/her formal training in the field does little to settle one's differences over their assertions. What counts is the veracity and the verifiabilility of them.
Limitedclear wrote: zardoz wrote: edblysard wrote: If fact, with the exception of arfbe, who is also nameless, I can’t think of a single railroader on the forum they haven’t insulted. I feel so neglected.....I haven't been insulted......yet. Maybe I'm not controversial enough. You are still a god of railroading and a shining example to us all... Besides, anyone who wants to insult you has to come through me first...lol... LC
zardoz wrote: edblysard wrote: If fact, with the exception of arfbe, who is also nameless, I can’t think of a single railroader on the forum they haven’t insulted. I feel so neglected.....I haven't been insulted......yet. Maybe I'm not controversial enough.
edblysard wrote: If fact, with the exception of arfbe, who is also nameless, I can’t think of a single railroader on the forum they haven’t insulted.
If fact, with the exception of arfbe, who is also nameless, I can’t think of a single railroader on the forum they haven’t insulted.
I feel so neglected.....I haven't been insulted......yet.
Maybe I'm not controversial enough.
You are still a god of railroading and a shining example to us all...
Besides, anyone who wants to insult you has to come through me first...lol...
jeaton wrote: vsmith wrote: I notice that the smiley on the left gets in the last blow.
vsmith wrote:
I notice that the smiley on the left gets in the last blow.
Now that is funny.
wallyworld wrote:This thread is a good example of what was the subject of the original topic which has long since gone south and has vanished over the horizon. What replaced it is the atypical set of predictable puffery that frankly I could care less about I could swear this exchange of ballooned affrontry to ones fragile ego was a manufactured farce. Is the forum dead? No. Is this worth one's time reading? No.
selector wrote: edblysard wrote: Corn Maze… . If someone is going to come on board and debate operations, then wouldn’t it make sense to know their qualifications?.... The priest's assertion is either right or wrong. His priestliness is neither. Insisting that a person reveal his/her formal training in the field does little to settle one's differences over their assertions. What counts is the veracity and the verifiabilility of them.
Nicely put.
Many years ago, one of life's lessons that I learned was that people often try and substitute credentials for the hard work of analysis. Indeed, they usually do that when they haven't done the hard work of analysis.
The interesting thing here is the emotional intensity of the insult posse; trying to convince forum readers that they hold the exclusive key to all things railroading, as though forum readers are too d*** dumb to figure out what is authentic and what isn't.
Futuremodal posts interesting things and they are usually thought provoking. The emotional reaction from the insult posse and it's intensity is the remarkable phenomenon.
The idea that "even if I'm not smart enough, my friends sure are ..." is laughable if it weren't for the frequency of the assertion, thread after thread, without even a passing effort to address the thread topic, which is what that group has finally descended to in recent weeks.
Unprofessional? You bet. That's why I doubt the authenticity of some of the claims by fake name holders. Their behavior lacks the "ring of authenticity." Real people with those claimed credentials and experience don't run around cyberstalking on internet forums all day long trying to head butt people they disagree with, just to post an insult.
But the real point is exactly as you state it: an argument succeeds on its intrinsic merits, and alleged credentials can neither add nor detract from the intrinsic merits of the argument.
How many threads now have been diverted from the original discussion, abandoned or shut down by the inevitable insult barrage from this bunch?
And how often were they actually even remotely interested in discussing the thread topic?
To the extent that Futurmodal posts, it is at least usually in the context of the thread, and contains content, as opposed to mere vitriol.
These jokers are just a bit too obsessive for my tastes anyway, particularly on a mere discussion forum.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
bobwilcox wrote: MichaelSol wrote: I have asked him on several occassions for his background, including education, as the basis for various opinions he has offered, and other than his years in sales, he has never honored the request once. I do not recall you ever asking. If you did prove it! You can see my background in my profile. I earned a BS in Transportation at the University of Tennessee. IMHO opinion this forum is dead.
MichaelSol wrote: I have asked him on several occassions for his background, including education, as the basis for various opinions he has offered, and other than his years in sales, he has never honored the request once.
I have asked him on several occassions for his background, including education, as the basis for various opinions he has offered, and other than his years in sales, he has never honored the request once.
I do not recall you ever asking. If you did prove it! You can see my background in my profile. I earned a BS in Transportation at the University of Tennessee.
IMHO opinion this forum is dead.
On the most recent occassion, you and Greyhounds were pontificating on wheat farming -- and you have many times -- and you asked my number of years involved in that industry. I specifically told you, and then specifically asked how many years you had.
No answer.
That was your right and privilege, and I did not pursue it further.
Your comments speak for themselves. The problem with LC's is, he never adds anything to any discussion anymore. He just shows up as the anonymous head of a self-appointed insult posse. Thread after thread. And this thread is no different than any other recently in that regard. Indeed, each post he makes further proves the point.
And as this thread points out, people are simply sick of it. It's killing the forum.
If you have something to say, say it. Otherwise, go out and live a real life and enjoy the day.
bobwilcox wrote: IMHO opinion this forum is dead.
I do not recall you ever asking. If you did prove it!
You could have seen my background in my old profile. I earned a BS in Transportation at the University of Tennessee. While at UT I spent one summer as a sale intern in the Southern Railway at Hattiesburg, MS. On graduation in 1966 I took a job as a management trainee at the Rock Island and was assigned to their new marketing department. In 1969 I left the Rock Island to take a job in market research at the Northwestern and after several promotions became Market Manager-Chemicals. I left the the the Northwestern in 1982 to become Manager Product Development-Chemicals at the Espee. I did product management for plastics and petroleum in the marketing department untill the merger with the UP. At the UP I was on the sales team for ExxonMobil, Shell, BP and Cheveron in addition to being the Product Manager for petroleum. I retired in 2003.
During that time I made my employer and customers a lot of money.
Michael, I you are not too shy I look forward to hearing the details of your work and education.
Going back to the original subject of this thread. IMHO opinion this forum is dead. Who would want to hear anymore from Michael or Dave? However, its a free country so people can spend their time as they see fit.
bobwilcox wrote:Mike and Dave are free to not back up their opinions with a history of their education and work experience. In turn people reading their posts are free to form an opinion of the validity of their posts. It sounds even to me.
Bob is absolutely correct. I have asked him on several occassions for his background, including education, as the basis for various opinions he has offered, and other than his years in sales, he has never honored the request once.
His opinions, and anyone else's, rises or falls on their intrinsic merit.
That avoids the prevailing double standard of anonomous claims of authenticity under fake names.
It also avoids the "I've switched for ten years and so I know all about monopoly pricing," which is the expert opinion we always get from that expert.
edblysard wrote: The list of insulted is broad and covers everyone from a shortline owner operator to the former editor of Trains magazine, currently working for the DOD and the Deputy Director of Iraqi Railroad Reconstruction. If fact, with the exception of arfbe, who is also nameless, I can’t think of a single railroader on the forum they haven’t insulted. .... Now, if you were going to tell the Deputy Director of Iraqi Railroad Reconstruction how to do his job, tell a switchman with 10 years experience how to do his job, tell a shortline owner how to run his railroad, tell the Chief Surveyor of the ATSF how to design and build a railroad, tell an attorney, who has argued cases in front of the US Supreme court how to be an attorney, and informed a practicing CPA how to manage finances, don’t you think you should provide proof that you know what your talking about, beyond “because I said so”? ... I may be wrong, but having a picnic lunch with someone daughter doesn’t qualify me to comment on open heart surgery, any more than it qualifies Mike to comment on railroad operations.
The list of insulted is broad and covers everyone from a shortline owner operator to the former editor of Trains magazine, currently working for the DOD and the Deputy Director of Iraqi Railroad Reconstruction.
....
Now, if you were going to tell the Deputy Director of Iraqi Railroad Reconstruction how to do his job, tell a switchman with 10 years experience how to do his job, tell a shortline owner how to run his railroad, tell the Chief Surveyor of the ATSF how to design and build a railroad, tell an attorney, who has argued cases in front of the US Supreme court how to be an attorney, and informed a practicing CPA how to manage finances, don’t you think you should provide proof that you know what your talking about, beyond “because I said so”?
...
I may be wrong, but having a picnic lunch with someone daughter doesn’t qualify me to comment on open heart surgery, any more than it qualifies Mike to comment on railroad operations.
One thing I don't comment on is railroad operations. Other than being around it 24/7 for 18 years, I have not, in fact told anyone in Iraq how to do anything, a switchman for 10 years a single thing about his job other than to point out that real wages for T&E have declined between 1975 and the present, never told a shortline owner how to run his railroad since I don't know anything about shortlines except the one I see every day, nor the Chief Surveyor of anything how to build a railroad.
Simply false.
Don't see any attorneys who have alleged to have argued to the Supreme Court here, he won't provide his resume or name, and doesn't pass the smell test. Odd you don't demand public disclosure of that? Told him "how to be an attorney?" Hmm. Is this the same guy that claimed here that he is now running trains?
The CPA? The one who changes his stories every time he is confronted with some actual facts? The one who argued that gateway conditions were useless? And didn't understand word one about them? Who had not a shred of proof that shareholder value had increased, whereas the "accounting" measures showed a deep decline? Then he changed his tune to some other odd explanation.
Why can't he ever seem to justify his wild statements with a cogent argument? Why the distinct lack of numbers in his presentations? Don't you think that's odd for a CPA? I'd sure enjoy seeing some from him instead of the usual fare.
Your post is standard fare for you. Distortion and misrepresentation. You started the name-calling out of the gate on this thread, and apparently intend to continue it for all time unless something intervenes.
edblysard wrote: Mike claims to be an attorney, and a former judge, so he know a simple technique that every law student learns…if your expert witness cant produce their qualifications, or if their “qualifications” are not up to snuff, then they are no expert.
Mike claims to be an attorney, and a former judge, so he know a simple technique that every law student learns…if your expert witness cant produce their qualifications, or if their “qualifications” are not up to snuff, then they are no expert.
False. Never "claimed" it. It was "announced" along with the suspicion I did FELA cases, for some odd reason. "Every law student learns ..." And you learned this where ... TV? I think you're the one claiming to be the expert on all things ...
edblysard wrote: If I kept a file, as Mike and Dave seem to do, I could cut and paste Mike’s rant from a previous thread on what he thought of T&E employees…I didn’t keep it, but to paraphrase, we are all cannon fodder, useless, uneducated mindless morons worth only minimum wage, who have to be kept in line by management like himself.
If I kept a file, as Mike and Dave seem to do, I could cut and paste Mike’s rant from a previous thread on what he thought of T&E employees…I didn’t keep it, but to paraphrase, we are all cannon fodder, useless, uneducated mindless morons worth only minimum wage, who have to be kept in line by management like himself.
Actually, it was only directed to you, after your rant that "unless you worked in T&E, you didn't know anything about railroading". Just the beginning of a long line of arrogant remarks ...
You don't give a rats about people's backgrounds, what you're looking for is insult fodder ... what state they live in, what they do for a living, and the insult barrage commences because you never, never, address a discussion on its merits, only by caustic references to someone's state being on welfare or some other ridiculous such slander.
If you can't argue civilly, don't play. But there are four or five of you playing the same game. Thread to thread, over and over. Most people want to read to see a discussion, or get some information, or maybe even contribute what they know.
You wreck the system with your single-minded mendaciousness.
Suppose I critiqued your lack of education on every thread you post to?
That's your mode. Attack the person, never enlighten the discussion.
See your first post about me on this thread. And many other threads I have never even posted to.
You are obsessed.
We are cheeseheads , perhaps the group views us with pity ?
zardoz wrote:I feel so neglected.....I haven't been insulted......yet. Maybe I'm not controversial enough.
What aspect of your job would you like to be insulted on Zardoz? I'd hate for you to feel left out!
-ChrisWest Chicago, ILChristopher May Fine Art Photography"In wisdom gathered over time I have found that every experience is a form of exploration." ~Ansel Adams
It is not an obsession…just simple debate protocol.
If someone is going to come on board and debate operations, then wouldn’t it make sense to know their qualifications?
After all, if you were going in for open heart surgery, wouldn’t you want to know if your surgeon attended medical school and had done one of these before?
Both Mike and Dave have presented themselves as experts in the fields of economics, railroad finance, and railroad operations.
They have repeatedly told those currently in the business how to go about their jobs, and thoroughly insulted anyone who fails to agree with them.
It went on for almost an entire paragraph, a perfect example of class hatred.
After a statement like that, don’t you think he should offer his bona fides as to what management position he held at the Milwaukee Road?
So ask him, and all you will receive is an “it’s none of you business” response.
Now, if I were to go to the Model Railroaders forum, and begin to tell the folks there that all they are doing is wrong, that they don’t have any idea how to build a model, construct a layout, or install a decoder…and one of them ask for my Master Modelers Certificate, don’t you think that I, by my comments there, obligated myself to provide the proof that I knew what I was talking about?
Both Mike and Dave make detailed, emphatic and insistent statements in the field of economics, railroad operations, railroad finance, and railroad management,
Yet when asked to provide their bona fides, specifically when Mike was asked the afore mentioned question, and Dave was asked what school he received his degree in economics from, the resulting barrage of insults from the two made just about any forum flame war you ever read seem tame.
Both Mike and Dave, from their own statements, claim to be experts in the fields mentioned, yet both refuse to offer any qualifications beyond “because I said so”.
Dave states he has several advanced degrees in economics, yet refuses to produce a single one…
Not an obsessions at all, but attempts to find the qualifications of the person telling us we are incorrect in the things we do everyday.
corn maze wrote:I am going to agree with Mr. Sol.I am tired of the obsessions with peoples' backgrounds, professions, educations, etc, on these boards. Good ideas stand on their own merit and it really doesn't matter what the person expressing the idea does, or did, for a living. It is also no one's business.I also think it is unfair for someone anonymous to demand from a person using their real name to divulge all their personal and employment history.It's easy to become a bottom feeder on these boards, and I confess I have found myself down that path lately -- which I regret. I hope people will strive for something better for themselves than to try to bring down other people here.
CM -
You are forgetting how all of this began with Mr Sol and "Dave" (FM) demanding to know my qualifications and identity and those of others. I gave my general qualifications, but not my identity and they refused to respond truthfully in kind when asked and they still haven't. While I'm on the subject, I don't see you revealing your identity either. I have no issue with that as I understand well the reasons not to do so. I also know that they have nothing whatever to do with having some sort of evil or misleading purpose. Unfortunately, Sol and FM like to portray the use of a handle as dishonest to discredit anyone who has the audacity to disagree with their pompous and ridiculous positions. They can take whatever positions they wish, but they don't have the right to insult me and the other fine people of this forum, some of whom I've had the pleasure to meet in person. I don't consider standing up for myself to be "bottom feeding" and I will continue to take that position when challenged.
Randy Stahl wrote:Great ... another thread gone to waste , yet another waste of time about forum members and personalitys, not much useful info here for sure .
Even if true, your association with railroaders doesn't change your situation one bit... LC
Even if true, your association with railroaders doesn't change your situation one bit...
You've got a problem. Grown up people don't have to go from thread to thread obsessively proclaiming to the world that they work for a railroad. It surely shows that the condition doesn't improve either IQ or manners one bit. And insulting everyone they can get their jollies from as some bizarre form of "proof."
It wastes the time of the rest of us.
My "association" with railroading comes from a total of 24 years of either living on the property or working for the company, not counting the seven years of working for a railroad consulting group. I just don't need to proclaim it on every thread, nor, oddly enough does it stand in place of articulating cogent arguments based on researched facts.
You feel the opposite -- that your doubtful credentials supplied under fake names should substitute for any argument at all -- and that it somehow grants you the blank check to just go from thread to thread barging in with your juvenile name calling. If you have an argument, present it --- it does neither the thread nor your dubious reputation any good to act like a troll, which is just in fact precisely the role that you play, thread after thread.
Get a hint from this thread, people are just tired of these threads where you and your ralphies barge in just to call someone a bunch of names. Get the hint -- nobody cares who you think you are despite your constant reminders that you think you are really somebody.
The proof is in the quality of the debate and the quality of the discussion.
You fail.
MichaelSol wrote: Limitedclear wrote: And neither does your buddy Mike, who "knows" all sorts of people in the railroad business...(that's a great qualification too...) As a matter of fact, just got back from having a nice picnic lunch today with Bill Brodsky (MRL), Marty Garelick (VPO MILW, COO Amtrak) and (MILW Pres.) Curtis Crippen's daughter, Mary Crippen Marshall. And arbfe as well. One thing that has always impressed me is that real railroaders are usually first class people. Not at all like the two or three "characters" who keep claiming that they are real railroaders with their "look at me, look at me" antics, and their two or three ralphies that routinely troll Trains forums that are, frankly, an insult and an embarrassment to the industry by their constant repetitions of who they think they are and how much they think they know, as this thread, once again, conclusively shows. I agree Randy, these guys have wasted more threads and more time on their personal vendettas than any other 500 people here put together. These guys are like the kiss of death to any reasonable discussion. The LC post above -- that's all I've ever seen that clown write -- just catty insult streams over and over, thread after thread. That's railroading?
Limitedclear wrote: And neither does your buddy Mike, who "knows" all sorts of people in the railroad business...(that's a great qualification too...)
And neither does your buddy Mike, who "knows" all sorts of people in the railroad business...(that's a great qualification too...)
As a matter of fact, just got back from having a nice picnic lunch today with Bill Brodsky (MRL), Marty Garelick (VPO MILW, COO Amtrak) and (MILW Pres.) Curtis Crippen's daughter, Mary Crippen Marshall. And arbfe as well. One thing that has always impressed me is that real railroaders are usually first class people.
Not at all like the two or three "characters" who keep claiming that they are real railroaders with their "look at me, look at me" antics, and their two or three ralphies that routinely troll Trains forums that are, frankly, an insult and an embarrassment to the industry by their constant repetitions of who they think they are and how much they think they know, as this thread, once again, conclusively shows.
I agree Randy, these guys have wasted more threads and more time on their personal vendettas than any other 500 people here put together. These guys are like the kiss of death to any reasonable discussion. The LC post above -- that's all I've ever seen that clown write -- just catty insult streams over and over, thread after thread.
That's railroading?
Well, I'm sure impressed....NOT...
I doubt you carry on with those folks the way you do here, assuming what you said isn't a pure fabrication...I guess we'll just never know...
As I said before, anything you and FM have to say here gets the full discount. Good thing I'm used to moving trains of rock salt, now I'll have plenty of grains (even solid chunks) to take your words with...
futuremodal wrote: As much as I hate to admit it, but I owe 18% of my train knowledge to futuremodal. Not that he personally educates me, but some of the stuff he says prompts others to give very learned responses back. In many ways, I think futuremodal is the most valuable contributor. And, I think his missives should be encouraged. Gee, thanks for the compliment........I.....guess...... Of course, you do get it apparently. There is a method to my madness, in that such can elicit responses that otherwise would go unposted. But yes, the forum has lost it's edge in terms of liveliness. I blame it on the transition from the old red-orange background to this new calming earth tone background. As for the "thread for everyone" outbreak, I pin the source blame squarely on Murphy, who started a "everyone" Milwaukee thread in response to the rancor on the usual Milwaukee threads, and pretty soon every third topic was an "everyone" thread. But I'm sure he did not envision it getting so out of hand. BTW - It's never too early to start the young 'uns on cultivation of railroad minutia. Surely you can type and babysit at the same time?
As much as I hate to admit it, but I owe 18% of my train knowledge to futuremodal. Not that he personally educates me, but some of the stuff he says prompts others to give very learned responses back. In many ways, I think futuremodal is the most valuable contributor. And, I think his missives should be encouraged.
Gee, thanks for the compliment........I.....guess......
Of course, you do get it apparently. There is a method to my madness, in that such can elicit responses that otherwise would go unposted. But yes, the forum has lost it's edge in terms of liveliness. I blame it on the transition from the old red-orange background to this new calming earth tone background.
As for the "thread for everyone" outbreak, I pin the source blame squarely on Murphy, who started a "everyone" Milwaukee thread in response to the rancor on the usual Milwaukee threads, and pretty soon every third topic was an "everyone" thread. But I'm sure he did not envision it getting so out of hand.
BTW - It's never too early to start the young 'uns on cultivation of railroad minutia. Surely you can type and babysit at the same time?
FM,
It was intended as a compliment. Just because I disagree with 84.7% of your ideas--I am 100% in agreeming with your no more major mergers in the near future ideology--doesn't mean I do not enjoy reading your posts, etc. etc.
I agree Randy, these guys have wasted more threads and more time on their personal vendettas than any other 500 people here put together. These guys are the kiss of death to any reasonable discussion. The LC post above -- that's all I've ever seen that clown write -- just catty insult streams over and over, thread after thread.
FM blathered:
" Working for a railroad does not make one an expert on transportation economics, on the contrary it probably makes one less adept at economic postulation than one who has the chance to step back and observe via contrast and comparison independent of work day influences. And usually, to be considered an "expert" in an economic field, you first have to have the economics degree."
So, FM, since you are such an expert in rail transportation, where is your degree in railroading?? Where is your pertinent experience?? OOPS, I almost forgot, you don't have any...
Guess we can't rely upon anything you say. Not that we did anyway...
Quentin
Dave:
Since my advice to you in the past has been ignored for reasons known only to you, I'm probably wasting my breath but I'll try again.
You appear to me (and probably most other people) as being a self-righteous prig who claims to have all the answers and believes that the world would be a perfect place if it only heeded his advice. This is a common attitude of youth, they believe they know it all and don't realize until they get older, gain some experience and find out how little they actually know. I was young and unrealistically idealistic at one time so I know whereof I speak.
The unceasing denigration of those who disagree with you (myself included) will cause you to be marginalized as others realize that you are a zealot and refuse to consider other points of view that may add to your experience and wisdom. You will be viewed as an unrealistic person of no consequence who has nothing to offer.
edblysard wrote: So, then it is quite OK for Mike and Dave to insult folks, and if anyone has the nerve to reply in kind, then they are labled trouble makers....? But find any thread where Mike or Dave didnt throw out the first insult...you would be hard pressed to do so. I am sure there might be one or two, but compared to the sheer volume of their other posts, the amount would be so small as to be meaningless. Your allowed to "return the favor" but no one else is? Your flavor, or none at all? Funny, I respect your opinion on just about anything to do with a computer or robotics, after all, it is your field of employement. If you told me this works that way, I would accept it as a fact, knowing you have done the work or designed the program yourself. But to have a fabricated persona named Dave tell me how wrong I am in the field I have worked in for the past ten years, all the while having never touched a piece of the equipment himself is somewhat aggravating. Somewhat along the lines of me telling you that Windows is the only real operating system, even though you know better, and calling you a rude name when fail to agree completly with me. Between the two of them, they would argue to death with anyone the concept that the background color for the forum is not white, but a shade of grey. And somewhere in there, Mike would point out the correct word, according to some graph or book he has, is gray. Then they would argue the pixel counts, tonal shades, and somewhere along in there, slip in open access, BNSF is evil, and Mike's financial genius. For a guy who claims to have such a tremendous knowledge of the stock market and financial performance, he seems pretty broke to me. Point is, you at least have the nuts to say outright what you think...but Dave seems incapable of saying he is really pissed off the faimly farm went down the tubes because BN pulled out of town...instead, he goes about his vendetta under the pretense that he has real, functional knowledge of how and what railroads do...and then resorts to sideways insults if anyone calls him down on his silliness. If the sneak attack dosnt work, then he resorts to just plain rudeness and insults...and when it is given back, he plays the injured party and quits the fight...what a child, cant even face the music he started playing. Paper tigers, the pair of them. And on purpose, to boot, because you cant really win an arguement with a non-person. They hide behind pretense and bull...t, and like most trolls, are afraid to let anyone know who they are. If you knew the qualifications, and quality of some of the folks who seem to bear the brunt of Mike and Dave's distain, you might rethink your version of bright... So far, they both have told the former chief engineer and surveyor of the ATSF he was stupid, informed a stock broker he knew nothing about the stock market, although the man makes quite a good living at it, managed to get his kids through Harvard, and told the owner and president of a succesful short line he knew nothing about railroads...not to mention all the blue collar guys like me who do this every day being told we are dumb and useless...somehow that dosnt qualify either one of them as bright wicks in my book... If they seem that way to you...man I am sorry, but it must be awful dark at your house.
So, then it is quite OK for Mike and Dave to insult folks, and if anyone has the nerve to reply in kind, then they are labled trouble makers....?
But find any thread where Mike or Dave didnt throw out the first insult...you would be hard pressed to do so. I am sure there might be one or two, but compared to the sheer volume of their other posts, the amount would be so small as to be meaningless.
Your allowed to "return the favor" but no one else is?
Your flavor, or none at all?
Funny, I respect your opinion on just about anything to do with a computer or robotics, after all, it is your field of employement.
If you told me this works that way, I would accept it as a fact, knowing you have done the work or designed the program yourself.
But to have a fabricated persona named Dave tell me how wrong I am in the field I have worked in for the past ten years, all the while having never touched a piece of the equipment himself is somewhat aggravating.
Somewhat along the lines of me telling you that Windows is the only real operating system, even though you know better, and calling you a rude name when fail to agree completly with me.
Between the two of them, they would argue to death with anyone the concept that the background color for the forum is not white, but a shade of grey.
And somewhere in there, Mike would point out the correct word, according to some graph or book he has, is gray.
Then they would argue the pixel counts, tonal shades, and somewhere along in there, slip in open access, BNSF is evil, and Mike's financial genius.
For a guy who claims to have such a tremendous knowledge of the stock market and financial performance, he seems pretty broke to me.
Point is, you at least have the nuts to say outright what you think...but Dave seems incapable of saying he is really pissed off the faimly farm went down the tubes because BN pulled out of town...instead, he goes about his vendetta under the pretense that he has real, functional knowledge of how and what railroads do...and then resorts to sideways insults if anyone calls him down on his silliness.
If the sneak attack dosnt work, then he resorts to just plain rudeness and insults...and when it is given back, he plays the injured party and quits the fight...what a child, cant even face the music he started playing.
Paper tigers, the pair of them.
And on purpose, to boot, because you cant really win an arguement with a non-person.
They hide behind pretense and bull...t, and like most trolls, are afraid to let anyone know who they are.
If you knew the qualifications, and quality of some of the folks who seem to bear the brunt of Mike and Dave's distain, you might rethink your version of bright...
So far, they both have told the former chief engineer and surveyor of the ATSF he was stupid, informed a stock broker he knew nothing about the stock market, although the man makes quite a good living at it, managed to get his kids through Harvard, and told the owner and president of a succesful short line he knew nothing about railroads...not to mention all the blue collar guys like me who do this every day being told we are dumb and useless...somehow that dosnt qualify either one of them as bright wicks in my book...
If they seem that way to you...man I am sorry, but it must be awful dark at your house.
This latest falsehood-laden tirade from EdBlysard is a joke, right? Otherwise, we have a new champion for bottom scraping forum posts.
If I may, a few points to ponder....
1. Working for a railroad does not make one an expert on transportation economics, on the contrary it probably makes one less adept at economic postulation than one who has the chance to step back and observe via contrast and comparison independent of work day influences. And usually, to be considered an "expert" in an economic field, you first have to have the economics degree.
2. Most of the grain in this area is either trucked down to the barge ports or shipped via UP. BNSF has rendered itself impotent in the PNW grain trade for the most part.
3. Ed, if you had any evidence of Mike or myself throwing out the first insult, you should've presented it. You didn't, because such does not exist. Which proves you are a liar.
4. The only folks who have said that "BNSF is evil" is yourself and TomDiehl. I have never said it. Mike has never said it. Again, you are a liar for making such an accusation.
5. Yes, Dave is my real name. You are a liar for stating that it is a "fabricated persona".
6. The family farm is doing just fine, and it's success has nothing to do with BNSF's actions one way or the other. Again, for most folks around here, BNSF is irrelevent by it's own actions.
7. Speaking of paper tigers, you still haven't apologized for berating my statement regarding the hypothetical situation of a derailed car being pulled 20 miles along the track, even after I posted the recent news item regarding a BNSF coal train doing just that, albeit for 30 miles. I guess you're still scraping the egg off your face on that one, huh Ed?
edblysard wrote:Ever try and comb out a boxcar...talk about your big time hairball! zardoz wrote: edblysard wrote: …ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered. I'd like to know more about these hairy trains.....grafitti is bad enough...........
zardoz wrote: edblysard wrote: …ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered. I'd like to know more about these hairy trains.....grafitti is bad enough...........
edblysard wrote: …ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered.
…ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered.
I'd like to know more about these hairy trains.....grafitti is bad enough...........
Some of the rolling stock around Chicago is so old, it's bald on top.
TheAntiGates wrote: nanaimo73 wrote: TheAntiGates wrote: Which to a n00b coming here for the first time, could be interpreted as intimidating. Which brings up the question, do you look like your avatar ? Heh heh heh,do YOU look like YOURS? Actually, I'm a 97 lb limp wristed, pencil necked milquetoast who is afraid of the dark.But I've got a BIG ford pickup truck that makes up for it.
nanaimo73 wrote: TheAntiGates wrote: Which to a n00b coming here for the first time, could be interpreted as intimidating. Which brings up the question, do you look like your avatar ?
TheAntiGates wrote: Which to a n00b coming here for the first time, could be interpreted as intimidating.
Which brings up the question, do you look like your avatar ?
I couldn't resist. Go Cheve! BTW, I may not agree with all the things you post, but your avatar has to be the best on the forum.
The professional(paid) lurker,
Doghouse.
fuzzybroken wrote:though some of the more technology-related forums that I occasionally visit are much, much worse! "Please look to see if the answer to your question has already been asked, and post in the appropriate thread..." Yeah, right, I'm going to go nosing through eleventeen thousand different threads looking for the answer to my question that I probably don't even know how to ask!
edblysard wrote: Funny, I respect your opinion on just about anything to do with a computer or robotics, after all, it is your field of employement. If you told me this works that way, I would accept it as a fact, knowing you have done the work or designed the program yourself. But to have a fabricated persona named Dave tell me how wrong I am in the field I have worked in for the past ten years, all the while having never touched a piece of the equipment himself is somewhat aggravating.
edblysard wrote: But find any thread where Mike or Dave didnt throw out the first insult...you would be hard pressed to do so.
But find any thread where Mike or Dave didnt throw out the first insult...you would be hard pressed to do so.
This is, what, the third, maybe fifth recent thread in which I have not posted at all, in which Blysard has launched one of his highly personal attacks on me.
I suppose if there were an award for irony on Trains forums, edblysard, laucher of personal attacks, might win hands down for his accusation that others "are first."
I was glad to see the moderator finally take action against one such thread and delete it entirely; no doubt to Blysard's consternation, but I think as a useful warning about his type of continued personal vendettas. And there are four or five people who consistently troll from thread to thread just to call a couple of other people some names. These people's posts are finally being deleted outright.
The usual, however, is for Blysard to appear on a thread he has nothing to offer, only to offer a personal attack, usually in the form as it appears on this thread: a diatribe, maybe a sarcastic remark, sometimes as here, that his friends know more than anyone, so there.
However, I see now he even claims personal knowledge of my finances:
News to me, but I do think Blysard takes far too much interest in where people live and their bank accounts, to be truly interested in honest discussion.
And of course, the usual clincher:
You see, there is always something wrong with you if you disagree with him.
If others are tired of it on forums, believe me, so am I.
selector wrote: So, I thought I would point out that all is not well in Kalmbach land ... some folks are as mad a heck and are leaving for greener pastures. -Crandell
So, I thought I would point out that all is not well in Kalmbach land ... some folks are as mad a heck and are leaving for greener pastures.
-Crandell
I guess the ultimate gauge of the success of these forums is determined by Kalmbach, and I'm sure maintaining/increasing circulation numbers and interest in its publications is a major part of that goal. You make an interesting point. Let me submit that I just looked at the home page and got some interesting food for thought. It said:
738 guests currently online
62 members online
151 new users were added today
Looks like there is an overwhelming number of non-members who visit the forums and use them as a resource or entertainment or both. I'm also mildly surprised that 151 new people signed up today, as well. Any open forum is always in a constant state of flux, with people constantly coming and going.
It is my opinion that while suggestions and constructive criticism are acceptable, the forums are what Kalmbach decides they are. Since none of us pays for the experience, the right to complain is practically nil. I think Kalmbach expected some exodus when the changeover took place; free lunches are always take it or leave it.
I spend a fair bit of time in the Model Railroader forum since I don't work in the field but enjoy trains and having something that looks like them in my basement. The fellows over there are down in the dumps, but mostly because they can't get some of the tools to work. One huge P.O. is image codes not working for Mac users, of whom there are quite a number. Others don't like the lower volume of threads, some feel that the site has drawn a lot of new folks who need a lot of nurturing to get into the hobby (puzzles the heck out of me, but that is their beef).
So, I thought I would point out that all is not well in Kalmbach land.
Do any of you gents and lady (?) spend time on another forum related to real-world trains? This question is also currently in circulation next door...some folks are as mad a heck and are leaving for greener pastures.
TheAntiGates wrote:My comment was not intended as a condemnation of JJHtrainplanes, or of his intentions in creating them. What I was trying to point out is that by their very nature, they lend an aura of rigidity, an amost militarylike obsession with order. Which to a n00b coming here for the first time, could be interpreted as intimidating. Do people come here to have a good time? or to be reprimanded for failing to find the proper pigeon hole before contributing? Me? we'll I've got thick skin, If I ask a question and someone elsetells me where to put it, I usually return the "favor" and that is that. But, the more easily intimidated might not fare so well. (KEY POINT----->) Especially if they have to worry about first looking for a possible "all questions for oil fired steamers may only be posted here" thread, ..before asking their question. and facing possible ridicule if they don't. In a nut shell, policy designed by a few and intended to make their experience more to their liking, may have unintended consequences...And I think this might be one such area.
As one the nOOb's AG refers to, I have not had much of a problem here. Since the forum owners/mods will not organize this very well, and the search function is not very helpful, I will not go sorting through pages and pages of posts on my own looking for something, I will just post my question/comment and let the chips fall as they fall.
Compared to other forums I am on, the way this one is set up is rather intimidating for a newbie as it is very difficult to find info and there appears to be little or no active moderation. But there is lots of good info here and some funny stuff as well. I do environmental audits for a living, so I have a pretty thick skin, that helps I guess.
And all forums go through low/slow periods, not unusual in summer when it is nice outside.
OK, I'm wearing my flak jacket. For those of us who don't know, who [forum IDs] are the aforementioned Mike and Dave? You can send it to me in an email if you want.
Add: Got it from several members. Thanks.
TheAntiGates wrote:Me? we'll I've got thick skin, If I ask a question and someone elsetells me where to put it, I usually return the "favor" and that is that. (KEY POINT----->)
TheAntiGates wrote:What I was trying to point out is that by their very nature, they lend an aura of rigidity, an amost militarylike obsession with order. Which to a n00b coming here for the first time, could be interpreted as intimidating. Do people come here to have a good time? or to be reprimanded for failing to find the proper pigeon hole before contributing? Me? we'll I've got thick skin, If I ask a question and someone elsetells me where to put it, I usually return the "favor" and that is that. But, the more easily intimidated might not fare so well. (KEY POINT----->) Especially if they have to worry about first looking for a possible "all questions for oil fired steamers may only be posted here" thread, ..before asking their question. and facing possible ridicule if they don't. In a nut shell, policy designed by a few and intended to make their experience more to their liking, may have unintended consequences...And I think this might be one such area.
tree68 wrote: TheAntiGates wrote:...efforts to channel independent thought into pre-approved master threads... I've always thought of some of those "master threads" as a way to gather like-thinking people into one place. I care little about XYZ Railroad, but some people are passionate about it - let 'em go, I'll spend my time elsewhere. I may read it for the amusement it brings, but... Probably one of the most productive threads ever to visit the Forum was the silly-sounding "Stupid Question Thread." A lot of people learned a lot there, and, since more questions were asked as time went on, the thread stayed on page one for a long time. Eventually, though, the new questions petered out, and the thread sank out of sight. I've asked questions in "new" threads from time to time, and the thread went to page infinity, along with any answers, within days. As I mentioned before, however, we've asked a lot of the questions, and talked over most of the issues, sometimes ad nauseum. Sometimes those threads brought out the worst in people, and maybe we don't want a repeat.
TheAntiGates wrote:...efforts to channel independent thought into pre-approved master threads...
I've always thought of some of those "master threads" as a way to gather like-thinking people into one place. I care little about XYZ Railroad, but some people are passionate about it - let 'em go, I'll spend my time elsewhere. I may read it for the amusement it brings, but...
Probably one of the most productive threads ever to visit the Forum was the silly-sounding "Stupid Question Thread." A lot of people learned a lot there, and, since more questions were asked as time went on, the thread stayed on page one for a long time. Eventually, though, the new questions petered out, and the thread sank out of sight.
I've asked questions in "new" threads from time to time, and the thread went to page infinity, along with any answers, within days.
As I mentioned before, however, we've asked a lot of the questions, and talked over most of the issues, sometimes ad nauseum. Sometimes those threads brought out the worst in people, and maybe we don't want a repeat.
My guess as to what happened to the thread recently; "Change" With a Capital C.
It may have ultimately been a good thing. Sometimes we get complaicent with the normal expected way of doing things. The format change was not unannounced, Bergie, saw to that. What got everyone's bloomers in a bunch was the changes to the forum and the interactions or lack there of in those changes threw us off our usual game, like playing with someone else's set of golf clubs.
Making the "Newswire" a subscriber only feature, got a number of individuals to make a stand, and then give themselve no way out," the my way or the highway approach." That dropped several folks out. Then came the glitches in working of the forum. the jump links that would not work, or when they did they were interminably slow; even for those with high speed connections. Not to mention the new format idiosyncrasies. Only time will tell how well they will last.
My biggest gripe was the NEGATIVITY that seemed to escape out into the threads and responses. A couple of folks stand out from the crowd. No point in naming them, most regular readers know who they are. Some of the back and forths, UP SUCKS, NS SUCKS,CSX SUCKS, BNSF SUCKS, really did turn a number of participants off. As Gabe said, some of the arguments really produced most of the learning, you really have to have a thick skin when you jump inot one of those threads. Some can take the heat and understand and others cannot and they have to react by going for an emotional jugular.
I want to chalk it up to the heat and the dog days of summer, and look forward to seeing what we find. Hopefully, those friends who have taken some time out for the summer and stepped back top take a deep breath and plung back in for the winter. There have been some real highpoint for this summer. Dale's piece on the Bridges over the Mississippi, as I mentioned earlier is a very worthwhile read and well worth the time. He and his contributors have done a marvelous job on it. Ed Blysard's pictures of the Chinese Steam Engines, posted with an assist from Chris [Copcar ss] are better than any others I'v seen posted, and Zaks pictures of train watching in California were very nice.
I have the same haircut as his avatar. Shaved my head to the skin a few days ago. It's just too hot for all that hair these days.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
TheAntiGates wrote:LOL, I've been blessed with the "medusa's curse"
And a welth of funny images to post.
Aw admit it AG, You just love to stick your neck out.
nanaimo73 wrote:Well said, Anti. The Ilks drove arbfbe off of the forum with their constant bitter attacks on Sol and FM, can anyone find another CMO to replace him ? Several other posters stopped posting so they would not become targets. One is an engineer running steam in western Canada.
edblysard wrote: I think what I am trying to get at is that a lot of the threads now follow the chat room format, instead of a question/answer/discussion format. Ed
I think what I am trying to get at is that a lot of the threads now follow the chat room format, instead of a question/answer/discussion format.
Ed
futuremodal wrote: As for the "thread for everyone" outbreak, I pin the source blame squarely on Murphy, who started a "everyone" Milwaukee thread in response to the rancor on the usual Milwaukee threads, and pretty soon every third topic was an "everyone" thread. But I'm sure he did not envision it getting so out of hand.
I believe I started a non-confrontational Milwaukee Road thread.(Which, by the way, no one seemed interested in). The oscar for the best impersonation of Pandora's box goes to a Conrail fan. Oh, well. Q-Sara-Sara
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Sorry if my talk of leaving made it sound like an ultimatum or something like that. It wasn't. It was just that it seemed as though NO ONE was really on here with good topics recently, and it really wasn't the forum anymore.
I understand Mookie's point about the I'm smarter than you stuff. But, I think often those threads produced some of the most interesting comments. Some of the things Greyhounds has said in response to some of those threads have really increased my knowledge.
In any event, as long as there is a forum to stay around, I will always try to come back. My only point was, there didn't seem to be anything to come back to as of late.
The forum is hardly dead, it has just morphed into a slightly different shape, as it has in the past and will probably do so again. Some of the threads have gotten a bit repetitive, and some are a bit juvenile, but there are enough interesting threads that allow me to share what I know with others and learn something from others who are much more knowledgable than me.
Don't give up on the forum, Gabe. When your kids get older and you get a little free time, we'll be here waiting to hear from you.
They have the 12 banger....
http://www.thedieselshop.us/PTRR.HTML
is a list of the locomotives, and what frames they were built on.
So far, they have been pretty good locomotives.
On their 10th year, and entering a rebuild/overhaul program here...in a lot of cases, the diesel is pulled out, refurbished and re-installed....while the prime mover is out, they are cleaning and inspecting all other system, replacing worn wires, ducts and such, repainting all the interiors in the long hood and the cab.
For what we do with them, they have held up quite nicely...because the majority of our work is flat switching and industry, they get pretty banged up, but they seem up to the task.
The only major failures have been a head on collision with a loaded grain train, which bent the frame beyond repair, and the 9601 got speared by a piece of drill stem(pipe) that rolled off the top of a gondola in the next track, and stabbed the locomotive as it was passing by.
Managed to go through the cab floor under the engineers seat, the A/C unit, then the back wall, alternator and out the other side by ten feet.
The head on was sent back to Bosie(MK) for a new frame, they swapped all the rest, cab, long hood, diesel and alternator over, and it was back in service within a year.
The 9601 was repaired here, at our shop, after a lot of photos were taken!
edblysard wrote:<snipped> I know why CSXengineer is so quite…he is waiting for someone to ask him an intelligent question he can answer. Me too! There isn’t much he or I could add to the “I saw a red locomotive” style thread. Ask about flat yard switching, I’m your guy…ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered. Want to know how and why a hump yard does certain things, see Carl S, Tell me you saw a red locomotive…..ok, and? Although I can’t really speak for CSXengineer, I can tell you I am pretty tired of all the “UP sucks, BNSF sucks, CSX sucks, I wish they would bring back the Cotton Belt”, “I hate the new paint scheme ” threads…to us, this is a ongoing part of our daily lives… Whether UP or BNSF sucks is all a matter of perspective. If they sign your paycheck, then they don’t suck that bad… For a lot of us, this is how we make our living, and reading how upset some one is over the shape of a logo is somewhat amusing, but not worth getting your panties all wadded up,…it is a tool to us, one of the tools we use to do our job, and we pretty much don’t care what color it is painted, so long as it works. On the other hand, “What are the yellow thingies on the trucks of BN locomotives” is one of those questions that will have railroaders and fans scrambling to go see if they can find a yellow thingies, and get the answer. I think what I am trying to get at is that a lot of the threads now follow the chat room format, instead of a question/answer/discussion format. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and the right to express it, and you will find I am one of the first to defend those rights, heck, I even argued on the side of FM having every right to come here and make a fool of himself, but after a while, seeing UP sucks in every other thread, or reading about how someone hates the new paint on BNSF locomotives gets kinda tired. Ed
I know why CSXengineer is so quite…he is waiting for someone to ask him an intelligent question he can answer.
Me too!
There isn’t much he or I could add to the “I saw a red locomotive” style thread.
Ask about flat yard switching, I’m your guy…ask about running really hairy big freight trains, he has you covered.
Want to know how and why a hump yard does certain things, see Carl S,
Tell me you saw a red locomotive…..ok, and?
Although I can’t really speak for CSXengineer, I can tell you I am pretty tired of all the “UP sucks, BNSF sucks, CSX sucks, I wish they would bring back the Cotton Belt”, “I hate the new paint scheme ” threads…to us, this is a ongoing part of our daily lives…
Whether UP or BNSF sucks is all a matter of perspective.
If they sign your paycheck, then they don’t suck that bad…
For a lot of us, this is how we make our living, and reading how upset some one is over the shape of a logo is somewhat amusing, but not worth getting your panties all wadded up,…it is a tool to us, one of the tools we use to do our job, and we pretty much don’t care what color it is painted, so long as it works.
On the other hand, “What are the yellow thingies on the trucks of BN locomotives” is one of those questions that will have railroaders and fans scrambling to go see if they can find a yellow thingies, and get the answer.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and the right to express it, and you will find I am one of the first to defend those rights, heck, I even argued on the side of FM having every right to come here and make a fool of himself, but after a while, seeing UP sucks in every other thread, or reading about how someone hates the new paint on BNSF locomotives gets kinda tired.
You do reach a point at which most of your questions have been answered, most of your stored up stories have been told, and you just don't have a lot to say. I was noticing that even before the format change. Some people "get up and leave," others just lay back and become less active.
The "Thread For" explosion kept me quiet for a while - I may enjoy reading the occasional piece about any given railroad, but when all of page one was "Thread For" material, well, I'll just click over to a local forum for a bit. That one goes through the occasional doldrum, too, and many threads seem to devolve into personal attack forums after all of the pertinent points have been covered, but it can prove entertaining at times.
Now that we're back into a more normal mix, I drop the occasional comment in a thread, if I have something to add, and read with amusement some of the more arcane stuff. I really don't mind the "today I saw" thread - everybody needs a place to brag up the high point of their day, even if it's an everyday occurance for others.
Gabe - don't leave - keep in touch. After a while we'll evolve into a "new" group. The old timers will tell their stories (again) and answer questions (again), and the newbies will bring new insight.
Times change, people move on, the depth of interest in a particular area will wax and wane. As a young adult, I worked on, ate, drank and slept railroads. Later on there was family, different jobs and other hobbies and activites and my interest in the railroad business took a back seat in the, er... jumbo jet.
However, it is a most fascinating business. One may leave for a while or maybe as in my case even years, but then you pick up a copy of Trains, or read a book such as "The Men Who Loved Trains" and it all comes back.
Jay
Can't help it Mookie.
Look at the buckets...empty.
Need I say more?
Nothing is more sad than a milk junkie with empty buckets!
But the Mook hit it right on.
Between Mike Sol and FM’s “is so, is not, is so,” argument threads, and the “threads for everybody” it has become pretty much a topic wasteland.
Think about this; the thread directed towards Mr. Wrinn seems to be one of the few where ideas about future stories in Trains has been bandied about, with many good concepts being brought up and discussed.
Interesting, lively and free of the “I’m smarter than you” crud that has infected most of the other threads.
The picture is to depict a kitty who lost her job on the railroad (through no fault of her own, of course) and has hit the skids and must now stand on street corners and ask the kind people for help.
Actually, she has kibbles in her pails and needs milk, but is too lazy to go to the store. The work part is just to tug at heartstrings and the head is down cuz she is admiring her new nail polish.
Behind the scenes - Brother Carl sent that to me - I liked it so well, it has been on my office door for several years.
La Mook
Mookie wrote: I plain ran out of questions. But....thinking up new topics is everyone's job. To keep the forum from getting as dull as it has, everyone really needs to think up at least one topic. There are a lot of people out there with answers and they gladly share them - but even if you are in the "business", surely there is something you could either start a topic on or ask about. I don't think I am alone in saying that the back and forth between say FM and someone was waaay over my head - some of the simple things like "does lightning hit trains" were just right for me. We need variety not nonsense. I can't do megers and eastern railroads and management. But I can do "what are the yellow thingies and where are they on the brand new engines?" I know both answers now but only got one from the forum. The other I chose not to post because it would be buried by the nonsense at the end of one day. So I went behind the scenes and asked Houston Ed. So if you want an interactive forum and an interesting one, try doing some of the work - each and every one of us. Lurkers - post at least one time. Give us a chance to have a dialog, not a constant monologue. This many people surely can come up with something to discuss. Gabe - enjoy your postings - in this case the forum needs a couple of lawyers. Hope you will reconsider. Read the diner forum to the baby - guaranteed happy results! Mookie
I plain ran out of questions. But....thinking up new topics is everyone's job. To keep the forum from getting as dull as it has, everyone really needs to think up at least one topic. There are a lot of people out there with answers and they gladly share them - but even if you are in the "business", surely there is something you could either start a topic on or ask about.
I don't think I am alone in saying that the back and forth between say FM and someone was waaay over my head - some of the simple things like "does lightning hit trains" were just right for me. We need variety not nonsense. I can't do megers and eastern railroads and management. But I can do "what are the yellow thingies and where are they on the brand new engines?" I know both answers now but only got one from the forum. The other I chose not to post because it would be buried by the nonsense at the end of one day. So I went behind the scenes and asked Houston Ed.
So if you want an interactive forum and an interesting one, try doing some of the work - each and every one of us. Lurkers - post at least one time. Give us a chance to have a dialog, not a constant monologue. This many people surely can come up with something to discuss.
Gabe - enjoy your postings - in this case the forum needs a couple of lawyers. Hope you will reconsider. Read the diner forum to the baby - guaranteed happy results!
Mookie
OK Mook, I have a question...your puddy cat in the picture looks kind of sad to me....why?
The Forum is DEAD...
Long live the forum....
Still travelling Gabe. Who says you can't get around in the RR biz...
About the same. Just plugging away at work, and trying to get out on the weekends as much as possible. I've been having a pretty productive summer, and have managed to get out railfanning quite bit, as well as enjoying some hikes both in CO, as well as a trip up to Yellowstone to meet up with some other photographers from the DPReview Canon forum.
August has turned on the calendar, and that means that fall isn't that far away. I'm hoping to get down to the Cumbres and Toltec for some fall color this year. They run a photo freight for Trains Unlimited Tours every year, and I was thinking about renting a 4x4 and chasing the train with that.
Congratulations on your new child! Hope all works out with that, and I hope you can find a little free time for trains, and hanging around here (I'd be sad to see you go, too).
Take care, and good luck!
gabe wrote: I fear I will not be coming back after this vacation. Not out of protest, but just because the cite isn't very good. That would be a BIG disappointment, as there are a lot of forum members I consider it an honor to have know. Gabe
I fear I will not be coming back after this vacation. Not out of protest, but just because the cite isn't very good. That would be a BIG disappointment, as there are a lot of forum members I consider it an honor to have know.
Jeez, Gabe, say it ain't so. I have always enjoyed your perspectives. Even when I operated here under a different name going back to 2000 or whatever -- mostly lurking.
Of course, no one is irreplaceable, but losing you would be a BIG disappointment to a lot of us. Ya gets out of forums what ya puts in.
CopCarSS wrote: I think the forum is also taking a collective breather after all the "Thread For Everybody!" threads, and the resulting spoofing of the same. Other than that, I haven't noticed it being a whole lot different than status quo, apart from the new look. BTW, you can find FM on the "open access" and "closed access" threads. There's still some lively debate in there. What's new in your world Gabe?
I think the forum is also taking a collective breather after all the "Thread For Everybody!" threads, and the resulting spoofing of the same.
Other than that, I haven't noticed it being a whole lot different than status quo, apart from the new look. BTW, you can find FM on the "open access" and "closed access" threads. There's still some lively debate in there.
What's new in your world Gabe?
A new child, which means when I am not working, I am raising her, which doesn't leave a lot of time for trains. Other than that, it is pretty good. I work a lot more than I should, but the work is interesting and fun. If I could find just a little more time in my life for trains, this forum, and family--not necessarily in that order--I think I would be living the perfect life.
How are things with you?
Thanks for asking.
Last summer, we had the problem of all of the Teany Boppers who were out of school and posting agressive posts . . . not that some of the younger people on here are valuable contributors. But, it was a LOT better than it is now.
I agree. It is the mid-summer lull. Actually, there seems to be more participation than last summer, but who's counting.
You can take a few weeks off and not be afraid of missing anythng.
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