QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb Okay murph I'll give you all of that. So how do you get RR "A" with 55% captive shippers to be able to compete fairly with RR "B" who has only 40% captive shippers. One has lost more income than the other. "A" must raise its other rates more than "B" in markets where they compete directly. "A" will lose market share to "B" who intially will have problems meeting the increased demands. As the cheapest way to go what's another day? The additional income will facilitate more capacity and the traffic will be hard to get back by "A". The solution requires a level playing field for all. Captive, non-captive and railroads.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh gosh, open access is quite a sensitive topic. Some feel it would be a solution, some don't. It was interesting to see that it had been effective for interstate pipelines which share many of the networking considerations that rail does. I think enforcing the 180% R/VC standard in the Staggers Act would be a better solution than open access, but I still haven't quite got a handle on the ramifications of open access in the rail industry. I agree if it is updated to todays enviroment. Its a 20th century answer to a 21st century problem. There have been changes to the industry in 40 years.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh gosh, open access is quite a sensitive topic. Some feel it would be a solution, some don't. It was interesting to see that it had been effective for interstate pipelines which share many of the networking considerations that rail does. I think enforcing the 180% R/VC standard in the Staggers Act would be a better solution than open access, but I still haven't quite got a handle on the ramifications of open access in the rail industry.
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time. So, ignoring Dave's insults on this post, we can easily conclude 1) he's not a railfan, and 2) he's allergic to doing anything resembling real work. You could wonder what his knowledge is of railroads would be based on, like anybody with a blank profile. It also makes you wonder what his "star" appeal would be. "On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem?"
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol "Introducing open access to interstate pipelines and their unbundling from gas sales has allowed end users to participate in the efficiency gains in upstream markets. All this has contributed to declining retail prices for all major consumer categories." Andrej Juris, "Development of Natural Gas and Pipeline Capacity Markets in the United States," World Bank, March, 1998.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Wow, Dave, You might want to call Shell, British Petroleum, Phillips, Solvay, Lubrizol, Exxon Mobil, Valero, and Fina and tell them that...those silly companies seem to have thousands and thousands of miles of pipeline they are not using... Dave lives in a very small world. Maybe he should sign up for the Port's Ship Channel tour follwed by the PTRA tour. That is they way that certain people act on this board, they make things up to support their point when others poke holes in their argument. If you do not agree with them they then resort to name calling, or better yet, they Google your name to see if they can find any dirt on you.[}:)] Bert Well Bert, I guess I wasn't the ONLY one to notice this. [:D] Wow! It must be a brain virus going around. "Petrochemicals" usually refers to the byproducts of refining, not the distilates. Not all petroleum products can move by pipeline, not all the country is accessed by pipeline, and not all pipelines are heading in the direction of the consumption markets. Distribution of propane to the end users is usually done by railcar. As for the rest of Bert's post, nothing but pure pedanticism.
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Wow, Dave, You might want to call Shell, British Petroleum, Phillips, Solvay, Lubrizol, Exxon Mobil, Valero, and Fina and tell them that...those silly companies seem to have thousands and thousands of miles of pipeline they are not using... Dave lives in a very small world. Maybe he should sign up for the Port's Ship Channel tour follwed by the PTRA tour. That is they way that certain people act on this board, they make things up to support their point when others poke holes in their argument. If you do not agree with them they then resort to name calling, or better yet, they Google your name to see if they can find any dirt on you.[}:)] Bert Well Bert, I guess I wasn't the ONLY one to notice this. [:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Wow, Dave, You might want to call Shell, British Petroleum, Phillips, Solvay, Lubrizol, Exxon Mobil, Valero, and Fina and tell them that...those silly companies seem to have thousands and thousands of miles of pipeline they are not using... Dave lives in a very small world. Maybe he should sign up for the Port's Ship Channel tour follwed by the PTRA tour. That is they way that certain people act on this board, they make things up to support their point when others poke holes in their argument. If you do not agree with them they then resort to name calling, or better yet, they Google your name to see if they can find any dirt on you.[}:)] Bert
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Wow, Dave, You might want to call Shell, British Petroleum, Phillips, Solvay, Lubrizol, Exxon Mobil, Valero, and Fina and tell them that...those silly companies seem to have thousands and thousands of miles of pipeline they are not using... Dave lives in a very small world. Maybe he should sign up for the Port's Ship Channel tour follwed by the PTRA tour.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Wow, Dave, You might want to call Shell, British Petroleum, Phillips, Solvay, Lubrizol, Exxon Mobil, Valero, and Fina and tell them that...those silly companies seem to have thousands and thousands of miles of pipeline they are not using...
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Wow! It must be a brain virus going around. "Petrochemicals" usually refers to the byproducts of refining, not the distilates. Not all petroleum products can move by pipeline, not all the country is accessed by pipeline, and not all pipelines are heading in the direction of the consumption markets. Distribution of propane to the end users is usually done by railcar.
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QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Wow! It must be a brain virus going around. Distribution of propane to the end users is usually done by railcar.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Money talks in this Congress. Some folks think that high priced lawyer tactics and high priced lobbyists are justified if it supports their predetermined conclusions and agendas. Are you infering the railroads have deeper pockets than the oil industry, ag industry and all other captive shippers combined? [?] Check your math. They must be in cahoots with the chinease who we owe half the country too. Its the importers who got us in this mess. Ask futuremodal. Is this something that really interests you, or are you just kind of passing the time? I think you are arguing for arguing's sake. Do I think railroads have more at stake in captive rail rates and are willing to spend more to preserve them? Yes. How do you think a rate complaint is brought? Rate by rate. Not industry by industry. Check the math on that.
QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Money talks in this Congress. Some folks think that high priced lawyer tactics and high priced lobbyists are justified if it supports their predetermined conclusions and agendas. Are you infering the railroads have deeper pockets than the oil industry, ag industry and all other captive shippers combined? [?] Check your math. They must be in cahoots with the chinease who we owe half the country too. Its the importers who got us in this mess. Ask futuremodal.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Money talks in this Congress. Some folks think that high priced lawyer tactics and high priced lobbyists are justified if it supports their predetermined conclusions and agendas.
QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 If you do not agree with them they then resort to name calling, or better yet, they Google your name to see if they can find any dirt on you.[}:)] Bert
An "expensive model collector"
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