QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 [Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert Not to mention "Polyesters" twice within the last three lines. Please remember, Sol once posted the per mile Maintence of Way expenditures for the Milwaukee Road and the Great Northern for each year from 1950 to 1970 - that "data dump" didn't mean anything either.
QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 [Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox There is a second part of the deal that comes into play before the STB looks at profit margins. The traffic in question can not be impacted by the forces of competition from other products, markets, transportation carriers (ie. pipe, water or truck) or railroads.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173 I will probably surprise some people here. If the law says 180% of VC, then it should be enforced.
QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. There are no captive customers to oil companies. Get used to it, iggy. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 12, 2006 8:09 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. Oil prices are high in large part because of speculators in the commodity markets. Traders will say these markets are among the last examples of free market capitalism at work, while others compare them to high stakes gambling. Captive customers are hardly unique to railroads. Many companies act as sole source suppliers for some products and price accordingly as a result of patents they hold. Drug companies get a lot of publicity for this, but it affects everything from silicon chips to advanced materials to industrial processes. The effect on overall free markets depends on where one stands on intellectual property rights. Rail shippers who also deal in products beyond basic commodities may be reluctant to spend or lobby on rail rate issues as they are concerned about loosing captive customers themselves from changes in intellectual property laws. In defense of farmers, they sell through commodity markets and often have little pricing power. In an ironic twist, what they grow is considered a commodity while the seed they grow it from can and often is protected by patent laws. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 12, 2006 7:46 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Big brother, little brother? Twins seperated at birth? clones? Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Monday, June 12, 2006 4:43 AM Big brother, little brother? Twins seperated at birth? 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 12, 2006 3:26 AM It certainly seems that Futuremodal and Mr. Sol both liberally quote and grasp for support that does not in fact support their propositions very well at all... I find it interesting that the two of them seem to be combining forces, sort of like a couple of black holes... Reply Edit greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:20 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert Not to mention "Polyesters" twice within the last three lines. Please remember, Sol once posted the per mile Maintence of Way expenditures for the Milwaukee Road and the Great Northern for each year from 1950 to 1970 - that "data dump" didn't mean anything either. He just throws crap out here and gets really mad when anyone points out that it is, in fact, crap. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:07 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard as for a Google search, really now, why would I care? That comment was not directed at you. Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:00 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Since what we contribute doesn't fit your narrow agenda, I can see why you think that. Just another blank profile member. [:o)] Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:06 PM Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. I had expected that someone "in the trade" would know these were not "specialty chemicals". I had a feeling these were just words on a page to you. I stand by exactly what I stated in my post. The fact that you don't know the difference between specialty chemicals and other traffic suggests exactly your level of expertise on these matters. Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:01 PM Tom, I think Dave believes he has taken the condecending remark to a higher art form... Oh well, some peoples "art" is other folks wallpaper... You and Bert were, of course, correct, it is his last line of defense. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Yeah, THAT'LL happen. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:55 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] I noticed you didn't mention the "sorryassed operation" remark. An operation you admit you've never witnessed. And condecending remarks are a form of insult. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:54 PM Oh, There you are, Dave. Now, where does the ticket go, and in whos name? It has always been a open invite...we'll leave the light on...just follow the banjo music...(really, I make banjos and guitars!) We gotta pretty good jug band on friday nights! Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:41 PM "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] Reply Edit TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] You might have had him until you got to the part about lining switches and pulling pins. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:29 PM Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] 23 17 46 11 Reply bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:27 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Ethylene 99% pipeline, 1% truck, water of rail. Souce: Coversations with ExxonMobil, Shell and BP developing new PE plants. Background : See my profile. Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Bob Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time. So, ignoring Dave's insults on this post, we can easily conclude 1) he's not a railfan, and 2) he's allergic to doing anything resembling real work. You could wonder what his knowledge is of railroads would be based on, like anybody with a blank profile. It also makes you wonder what his "star" appeal would be. "On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem?" So Tom, apparently turning down an *invitation* from Ed is considered an "insult" down there in banjo country, yet being accused of "chickening out" over the understandable disregard I have for the faux invitation is NOT an insult? Whatever. Now I guess the reference to "banjo country" will be considered an insult by your type. Oh no! Now referencing "your type" will be considered an insult! Oh no! I'll say this, and if you guys want to pu***he "insult" angle, by all means go ahead, you all have lost whatever credibiltiy you might have had at this point. Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. Bert then proceeded to accuse anyone who disagreed with him of name calling and Google name searches to ostensibly scrape up some dirt on him. Well, fine. Bert, you are ignorant. There, now I have given credibility to your otherwise asinine "name calling" acusation. My bad. As for a Google search, really now, why would I care? Now, Tom. Do you really want to go into the comparison of how petrochemicals get to the primary consumption markets, or are you fine with thinking that all petrochemicals can get to the end user by pipeline? Just let me know and we'll go from there. No name calling, no Google searches, just a discussion. Since Dave's reading ability STILL hasn't improved, it appears he needs a bit of guidance. Let's see, insults from Dave: 1) "sorryass operation" 2) "manned by folks like Ed" And again, you're still totally clueless of what Bert and I both noticed. Let me drop you a bit of a hint, since you're throwing insults, look in a mirror. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Reply « First«78910111213»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. There are no captive customers to oil companies. Get used to it, iggy. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 12, 2006 8:09 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. Oil prices are high in large part because of speculators in the commodity markets. Traders will say these markets are among the last examples of free market capitalism at work, while others compare them to high stakes gambling. Captive customers are hardly unique to railroads. Many companies act as sole source suppliers for some products and price accordingly as a result of patents they hold. Drug companies get a lot of publicity for this, but it affects everything from silicon chips to advanced materials to industrial processes. The effect on overall free markets depends on where one stands on intellectual property rights. Rail shippers who also deal in products beyond basic commodities may be reluctant to spend or lobby on rail rate issues as they are concerned about loosing captive customers themselves from changes in intellectual property laws. In defense of farmers, they sell through commodity markets and often have little pricing power. In an ironic twist, what they grow is considered a commodity while the seed they grow it from can and often is protected by patent laws. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 12, 2006 7:46 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Big brother, little brother? Twins seperated at birth? clones? Reply Edit edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Monday, June 12, 2006 4:43 AM Big brother, little brother? Twins seperated at birth? 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 12, 2006 3:26 AM It certainly seems that Futuremodal and Mr. Sol both liberally quote and grasp for support that does not in fact support their propositions very well at all... I find it interesting that the two of them seem to be combining forces, sort of like a couple of black holes... Reply Edit greyhounds Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Antioch, IL 4,371 posts Posted by greyhounds on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:20 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert Not to mention "Polyesters" twice within the last three lines. Please remember, Sol once posted the per mile Maintence of Way expenditures for the Milwaukee Road and the Great Northern for each year from 1950 to 1970 - that "data dump" didn't mean anything either. He just throws crap out here and gets really mad when anyone points out that it is, in fact, crap. "By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that. Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:07 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard as for a Google search, really now, why would I care? That comment was not directed at you. Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:00 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Since what we contribute doesn't fit your narrow agenda, I can see why you think that. Just another blank profile member. [:o)] Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:06 PM Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. I had expected that someone "in the trade" would know these were not "specialty chemicals". I had a feeling these were just words on a page to you. I stand by exactly what I stated in my post. The fact that you don't know the difference between specialty chemicals and other traffic suggests exactly your level of expertise on these matters. Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:01 PM Tom, I think Dave believes he has taken the condecending remark to a higher art form... Oh well, some peoples "art" is other folks wallpaper... You and Bert were, of course, correct, it is his last line of defense. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Yeah, THAT'LL happen. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:55 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] I noticed you didn't mention the "sorryassed operation" remark. An operation you admit you've never witnessed. And condecending remarks are a form of insult. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:54 PM Oh, There you are, Dave. Now, where does the ticket go, and in whos name? It has always been a open invite...we'll leave the light on...just follow the banjo music...(really, I make banjos and guitars!) We gotta pretty good jug band on friday nights! Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:41 PM "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] Reply Edit TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] You might have had him until you got to the part about lining switches and pulling pins. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:29 PM Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] 23 17 46 11 Reply bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:27 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Ethylene 99% pipeline, 1% truck, water of rail. Souce: Coversations with ExxonMobil, Shell and BP developing new PE plants. Background : See my profile. Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Bob Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time. So, ignoring Dave's insults on this post, we can easily conclude 1) he's not a railfan, and 2) he's allergic to doing anything resembling real work. You could wonder what his knowledge is of railroads would be based on, like anybody with a blank profile. It also makes you wonder what his "star" appeal would be. "On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem?" So Tom, apparently turning down an *invitation* from Ed is considered an "insult" down there in banjo country, yet being accused of "chickening out" over the understandable disregard I have for the faux invitation is NOT an insult? Whatever. Now I guess the reference to "banjo country" will be considered an insult by your type. Oh no! Now referencing "your type" will be considered an insult! Oh no! I'll say this, and if you guys want to pu***he "insult" angle, by all means go ahead, you all have lost whatever credibiltiy you might have had at this point. Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. Bert then proceeded to accuse anyone who disagreed with him of name calling and Google name searches to ostensibly scrape up some dirt on him. Well, fine. Bert, you are ignorant. There, now I have given credibility to your otherwise asinine "name calling" acusation. My bad. As for a Google search, really now, why would I care? Now, Tom. Do you really want to go into the comparison of how petrochemicals get to the primary consumption markets, or are you fine with thinking that all petrochemicals can get to the end user by pipeline? Just let me know and we'll go from there. No name calling, no Google searches, just a discussion. Since Dave's reading ability STILL hasn't improved, it appears he needs a bit of guidance. Let's see, insults from Dave: 1) "sorryass operation" 2) "manned by folks like Ed" And again, you're still totally clueless of what Bert and I both noticed. Let me drop you a bit of a hint, since you're throwing insults, look in a mirror. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Reply « First«78910111213»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up.
Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous.
Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Big brother, little brother? Twins seperated at birth?
23 17 46 11
QUOTE: Originally posted by n012944 QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard as for a Google search, really now, why would I care? That comment was not directed at you. Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:00 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Since what we contribute doesn't fit your narrow agenda, I can see why you think that. Just another blank profile member. [:o)] Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:06 PM Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. I had expected that someone "in the trade" would know these were not "specialty chemicals". I had a feeling these were just words on a page to you. I stand by exactly what I stated in my post. The fact that you don't know the difference between specialty chemicals and other traffic suggests exactly your level of expertise on these matters. Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:01 PM Tom, I think Dave believes he has taken the condecending remark to a higher art form... Oh well, some peoples "art" is other folks wallpaper... You and Bert were, of course, correct, it is his last line of defense. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Yeah, THAT'LL happen. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:55 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] I noticed you didn't mention the "sorryassed operation" remark. An operation you admit you've never witnessed. And condecending remarks are a form of insult. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:54 PM Oh, There you are, Dave. Now, where does the ticket go, and in whos name? It has always been a open invite...we'll leave the light on...just follow the banjo music...(really, I make banjos and guitars!) We gotta pretty good jug band on friday nights! Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:41 PM "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] Reply Edit TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] You might have had him until you got to the part about lining switches and pulling pins. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:29 PM Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] 23 17 46 11 Reply bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:27 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Ethylene 99% pipeline, 1% truck, water of rail. Souce: Coversations with ExxonMobil, Shell and BP developing new PE plants. Background : See my profile. Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Bob Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time. So, ignoring Dave's insults on this post, we can easily conclude 1) he's not a railfan, and 2) he's allergic to doing anything resembling real work. You could wonder what his knowledge is of railroads would be based on, like anybody with a blank profile. It also makes you wonder what his "star" appeal would be. "On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem?" So Tom, apparently turning down an *invitation* from Ed is considered an "insult" down there in banjo country, yet being accused of "chickening out" over the understandable disregard I have for the faux invitation is NOT an insult? Whatever. Now I guess the reference to "banjo country" will be considered an insult by your type. Oh no! Now referencing "your type" will be considered an insult! Oh no! I'll say this, and if you guys want to pu***he "insult" angle, by all means go ahead, you all have lost whatever credibiltiy you might have had at this point. Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. Bert then proceeded to accuse anyone who disagreed with him of name calling and Google name searches to ostensibly scrape up some dirt on him. Well, fine. Bert, you are ignorant. There, now I have given credibility to your otherwise asinine "name calling" acusation. My bad. As for a Google search, really now, why would I care? Now, Tom. Do you really want to go into the comparison of how petrochemicals get to the primary consumption markets, or are you fine with thinking that all petrochemicals can get to the end user by pipeline? Just let me know and we'll go from there. No name calling, no Google searches, just a discussion. Since Dave's reading ability STILL hasn't improved, it appears he needs a bit of guidance. Let's see, insults from Dave: 1) "sorryass operation" 2) "manned by folks like Ed" And again, you're still totally clueless of what Bert and I both noticed. Let me drop you a bit of a hint, since you're throwing insults, look in a mirror. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Reply « First«78910111213»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl Originally posted by futuremodal Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. I gave you an example of how oil companies have people captive, look it up. An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard as for a Google search, really now, why would I care? That comment was not directed at you. Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply n012944 Member sinceAugust 2004 From: The 17th hole at TPC 2,283 posts Posted by n012944 on Monday, June 12, 2006 12:00 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Oh good grief, another pile on by the half-informed. Chemical engineering was my original trade. "Petrochemical" is not a term of art, it is precisely defined as a type and class. I worked with a number of the following petrochemicals, and this would be a typical list of "petrochemicals." ethylene polyethylenes ethylene oxide ethylene glycols polyesters engine coolant glycol ethers ethoxylates vinyl acetate 1,2-dichloroethane trichloroethylene tetrachloroethylene vinyl chloride polyvinyl chloride ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers higher olefins detergent alcohols propylene cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate solvents isopropyl alcohol acrylonitrile polypropylene propylene oxide propylene glycol glycol ethers acrylic acid acrylic polymers allyl chloride epichlorohydrin epoxy resins butadiene synthetic rubbers benzene ethylbenzene styrene polystyrenes synthetic rubbers cumene acetone bisphenol A epoxy resins polycarbonate cyclohexane adipic acid nylons caprolactam nylons nitrobenzene aniline methylene diphenyl diisocyanate (MDI) polyurethanes alkylbenzene detergents chlorobenzene toluene benzene toluene diisocyanate (TDI) polyurethanes benzoic acid caprolactam nylon mixed xylenes ortho-xylene phthalic anhydride para-xylene dimethyl terephthalate polyesters purified terephthalic acid polyesters Many, most, of these are called "specialty" chemcials. For a variety of reasons including purity concerns, most are not shipped by pipeline. I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. Thats quite a list. One question, did you list nylone and synthetic rubbers three times each to make the list seem longer? Bert An "expensive model collector" Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Since what we contribute doesn't fit your narrow agenda, I can see why you think that. Just another blank profile member. [:o)] Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:06 PM Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens. Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:03 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. I had expected that someone "in the trade" would know these were not "specialty chemicals". I had a feeling these were just words on a page to you. I stand by exactly what I stated in my post. The fact that you don't know the difference between specialty chemicals and other traffic suggests exactly your level of expertise on these matters. Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 9:01 PM Tom, I think Dave believes he has taken the condecending remark to a higher art form... Oh well, some peoples "art" is other folks wallpaper... You and Bert were, of course, correct, it is his last line of defense. Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:57 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Yeah, THAT'LL happen. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 8:55 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] I noticed you didn't mention the "sorryassed operation" remark. An operation you admit you've never witnessed. And condecending remarks are a form of insult. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:54 PM Oh, There you are, Dave. Now, where does the ticket go, and in whos name? It has always been a open invite...we'll leave the light on...just follow the banjo music...(really, I make banjos and guitars!) We gotta pretty good jug band on friday nights! Ed 23 17 46 11 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:41 PM "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,] Reply Edit TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] You might have had him until you got to the part about lining switches and pulling pins. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply edblysard Member sinceMarch 2002 9,265 posts Posted by edblysard on Sunday, June 11, 2006 7:29 PM Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D] 23 17 46 11 Reply bobwilcox Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Crozet, VA 1,049 posts Posted by bobwilcox on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:27 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Ethylene 99% pipeline, 1% truck, water of rail. Souce: Coversations with ExxonMobil, Shell and BP developing new PE plants. Background : See my profile. Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc? Bob Reply TomDiehl Member sinceFebruary 2001 From: Poconos, PA 3,948 posts Posted by TomDiehl on Sunday, June 11, 2006 6:07 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time. So, ignoring Dave's insults on this post, we can easily conclude 1) he's not a railfan, and 2) he's allergic to doing anything resembling real work. You could wonder what his knowledge is of railroads would be based on, like anybody with a blank profile. It also makes you wonder what his "star" appeal would be. "On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem?" So Tom, apparently turning down an *invitation* from Ed is considered an "insult" down there in banjo country, yet being accused of "chickening out" over the understandable disregard I have for the faux invitation is NOT an insult? Whatever. Now I guess the reference to "banjo country" will be considered an insult by your type. Oh no! Now referencing "your type" will be considered an insult! Oh no! I'll say this, and if you guys want to pu***he "insult" angle, by all means go ahead, you all have lost whatever credibiltiy you might have had at this point. Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. Bert then proceeded to accuse anyone who disagreed with him of name calling and Google name searches to ostensibly scrape up some dirt on him. Well, fine. Bert, you are ignorant. There, now I have given credibility to your otherwise asinine "name calling" acusation. My bad. As for a Google search, really now, why would I care? Now, Tom. Do you really want to go into the comparison of how petrochemicals get to the primary consumption markets, or are you fine with thinking that all petrochemicals can get to the end user by pipeline? Just let me know and we'll go from there. No name calling, no Google searches, just a discussion. Since Dave's reading ability STILL hasn't improved, it appears he needs a bit of guidance. Let's see, insults from Dave: 1) "sorryass operation" 2) "manned by folks like Ed" And again, you're still totally clueless of what Bert and I both noticed. Let me drop you a bit of a hint, since you're throwing insults, look in a mirror. Smile, it makes people wonder what you're up to. Chief of Sanitation; Clowntown Reply MichaelSol Member sinceOctober 2004 3,190 posts Posted by MichaelSol on Sunday, June 11, 2006 3:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience? Reply « First«78910111213»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
An "expensive model collector"
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard as for a Google search, really now, why would I care?
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol Well, TomDiehl, Edblysard, and BobWilcox all showed up -- nothing to contribute to the thread, just the usual. Always happens.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties.
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Michael why not fill out your profile and give us more information about your past as a railroader, farmer, attorney, teacher, etc?
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal "...manned by folks like Ed..." is an insult?! Hmmmmm, is comparing someone to Ed an insult? Okay, I apologize to anyone that I compared to Ed.[|(] And who says I don't acknowledge my own mistakes?[:-,]
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard Guess Dave doesn’t want that ticket after all....[8D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees? Ethylene and propylene are not classified as specialty chemicals. Now, go back and read the post. Do you have any numbers, or just words like "massive." How much goes by pipeline, how much by rail? What's your educational background in chemistry and actual experience?
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol I don't know of a specialty petrochemical that is. You mentioned ehtylene and propylene on your list of petrochemicals. As every one knows in the "trade" it moves via pipeline in massive quanaties. If chemical enginering was your trade where did you ply your trade? What are your degress in chemical enginering? Who granted the degrees?
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time. So, ignoring Dave's insults on this post, we can easily conclude 1) he's not a railfan, and 2) he's allergic to doing anything resembling real work. You could wonder what his knowledge is of railroads would be based on, like anybody with a blank profile. It also makes you wonder what his "star" appeal would be. "On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem?" So Tom, apparently turning down an *invitation* from Ed is considered an "insult" down there in banjo country, yet being accused of "chickening out" over the understandable disregard I have for the faux invitation is NOT an insult? Whatever. Now I guess the reference to "banjo country" will be considered an insult by your type. Oh no! Now referencing "your type" will be considered an insult! Oh no! I'll say this, and if you guys want to pu***he "insult" angle, by all means go ahead, you all have lost whatever credibiltiy you might have had at this point. Bert is ignorant of the difference between the monopolistic tactics of the US railroad industry and the current operations of the oil & petrochemical industry. He claims there is no difference between the railroads' captive shipper rates and the oil industry's current fuel prices. What I pointed out to him was that there are no consumers that are captive to the oil industry, so to try to analogize the railroad industry with the oil industry is ridiculous. Bert then proceeded to accuse anyone who disagreed with him of name calling and Google name searches to ostensibly scrape up some dirt on him. Well, fine. Bert, you are ignorant. There, now I have given credibility to your otherwise asinine "name calling" acusation. My bad. As for a Google search, really now, why would I care? Now, Tom. Do you really want to go into the comparison of how petrochemicals get to the primary consumption markets, or are you fine with thinking that all petrochemicals can get to the end user by pipeline? Just let me know and we'll go from there. No name calling, no Google searches, just a discussion.
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time. So, ignoring Dave's insults on this post, we can easily conclude 1) he's not a railfan, and 2) he's allergic to doing anything resembling real work. You could wonder what his knowledge is of railroads would be based on, like anybody with a blank profile. It also makes you wonder what his "star" appeal would be. "On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem?"
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed Oh, now it's an open invitation, is it? And for what? To watch a sorryass operation manned by folks like Ed? On my own dime?! No offer of paying my appearance fee, no per diem? And you call that "chickening out"?. I call it a waste of my valuable time and resources. And I would have thought someone down there in oil country would have a better grasp on which petro products go by which mode to which consumer market a majority of the time.
QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard No, seriously, I have invited him several times..come sit and watch, or grab a pair of gloves and boots and I can put him to work lining switches and pulling pins... So far, he has chickened out every time. Go figure.[:D]Ed
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