Bad train pictures

[zardoz]

northwesterner-

The conditions at the destination determines whether either loco stays on. If the train was going to Pleasant Prairie, the power comes off the train and is stored at Bain Station Road pending the return trip. If the train was going to Sheboygan, I'm not sure. Usually the power comes off the loaded train and is used to haul the empties from the same location.

There is not normally anyone on the DP loco, and it is controlled by the engineer in the lead loco. The dim headlight is its 'official' marker.

[zardoz]

northwesterner-

The conditions at the destination determines whether either loco stays on. If the train was going to Pleasant Prairie, the power comes off the train and is stored at Bain Station Road pending the return trip. If the train was going to Sheboygan, I'm not sure. Usually the power comes off the loaded train and is used to haul the empties from the same location.

There is not normally anyone on the DP loco, and it is controlled by the engineer in the lead loco. The dim headlight is its 'official' marker.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

I get to answer a question - all by myself!!!!! I am so excited.....!!!!!!

Rear engine is a helper. BNSF has them all the time thru Lincoln. They work in conjunction with the head-end, but can be worked separately - it is up to the engineer. It is not like a push-pull, since they are independent engines - see last sentence.

No one is aboard the rear unit, altho, Mz Mookie has thought it would be really cool (probably frigid now) to be riding back there and watching her world go by!

Did I do ok, guys?

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by northwesterner

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

I get to answer a question - all by myself!!!!! I am so excited.....!!!!!!

Rear engine is a helper. BNSF has them all the time thru Lincoln. They work in conjunction with the head-end, but can be worked separately - it is up to the engineer. It is not like a push-pull, since they are independent engines - see last sentence.

No one is aboard the rear unit, altho, Mz Mookie has thought it would be really cool (probably frigid now) to be riding back there and watching her world go by!

Did I do ok, guys?

Mookie

[zardoz]

Regarding the "D" or 'distant signal'.

On the CNW, we used a 'distant signal' to alert an engineer that they were approaching a fixed signal. This was used where a train was leaving dark territory and entering ABS territory.

The 'distant' signal was not wired in the block, nor did not offer any indication of track occupancy or condition. It was, to use Ed's term, an 'early warning' device. The main difference in the CNW signal was that it did not convey any information about the aspect of the signal it was protecting. The "D" signal always displayed a 'yellow' aspect, regardless of whether the ABS signal was Stop, Approach, or Clear.

[zardoz]

Regarding the "D" or 'distant signal'.

On the CNW, we used a 'distant signal' to alert an engineer that they were approaching a fixed signal. This was used where a train was leaving dark territory and entering ABS territory.

The 'distant' signal was not wired in the block, nor did not offer any indication of track occupancy or condition. It was, to use Ed's term, an 'early warning' device. The main difference in the CNW signal was that it did not convey any information about the aspect of the signal it was protecting. The "D" signal always displayed a 'yellow' aspect, regardless of whether the ABS signal was Stop, Approach, or Clear.

[northwesterner]

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[northwesterner]

Last night I was stopped by a Northbound UP freight in Highland Park, IL. It was headed up by one of those new monster EMD units pulling a long (100+?) string of coal hoppers fast (50 mph?). I usually see 2 or 3 engines on these trains, so I was surprised to see only one. But at the end of the train was another big EMD unit short hood out, with its head light dimmed.
My questions are :
1. Was the rear unit a helper or just deadheading.
2. Is this train kept intact (like a push-pull commuter train)?
3. Is there somone aboard the rear engine, or is it controlled by the driver of the head unit?

Thanks for your help in advance.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Position light signals were found primarily on PRR & N&W. They are generally all yellow and the arrangement of the lights roughly corresponds to that of a semaphore. You would have to check the Rules for Conducting Transportation to confirm specific aspects and indications.
As an indication of the variety of signals, an old Penn Central rule book shows multiple aspects for the same indication, such as four or five aspects which denote Stop and stay.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Position light signals were found primarily on PRR & N&W. They are generally all yellow and the arrangement of the lights roughly corresponds to that of a semaphore. You would have to check the Rules for Conducting Transportation to confirm specific aspects and indications.
As an indication of the variety of signals, an old Penn Central rule book shows multiple aspects for the same indication, such as four or five aspects which denote Stop and stay.

[edblysard]

Hi Nora,
What you are describing sound like PRR position signals.
I am not a eastern railroad buff, so I dont know a lot about them, but I do know they are unique to that railroad.
As you guessed, each railroad has a different signaling system.
Most are some version of the plain three color signal head, red, (stop) yellow(slow down, be prepared to stop short of..) and green, (clear, proceed).
The signals you are describing work on the position of the lights, not just the color.
Three straight up may mean proceed, at a diagonal may be caution, straight across may mean stop.
Some where on the forum is a PRR nut who will know.
Every railroad has their own system, and crews that work run through, like wabash, have to know each railroad signals, and what they mean.
Which means he has to carry both railroads rule book and timetable.
If the signal in question does have a plate with D on it, it is a distant signal as I described.
You said it went from three upright yellow to two horizontal red whan the train passed, so they may be using both the position of the lights, and their color for indication on how to proceed.
And yes, automobile traffic signals evolved from the old sephamore system, where colored blades and light gave indication.

So now we are in the same boat, waiting for a PRR buff to explain the indication of the position of the lights, you got me nosey too!
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D].

[edblysard]

Hi Nora,
What you are describing sound like PRR position signals.
I am not a eastern railroad buff, so I dont know a lot about them, but I do know they are unique to that railroad.
As you guessed, each railroad has a different signaling system.
Most are some version of the plain three color signal head, red, (stop) yellow(slow down, be prepared to stop short of..) and green, (clear, proceed).
The signals you are describing work on the position of the lights, not just the color.
Three straight up may mean proceed, at a diagonal may be caution, straight across may mean stop.
Some where on the forum is a PRR nut who will know.
Every railroad has their own system, and crews that work run through, like wabash, have to know each railroad signals, and what they mean.
Which means he has to carry both railroads rule book and timetable.
If the signal in question does have a plate with D on it, it is a distant signal as I described.
You said it went from three upright yellow to two horizontal red whan the train passed, so they may be using both the position of the lights, and their color for indication on how to proceed.
And yes, automobile traffic signals evolved from the old sephamore system, where colored blades and light gave indication.

So now we are in the same boat, waiting for a PRR buff to explain the indication of the position of the lights, you got me nosey too!
Stay Frosty,
Ed[:D].

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

A distant signal is just that, a signal the tells you what the next signal should show.
Most are yellow all the time, indicating that the next signal will be at least as restrictive as the yellow one.
If your distant signal shows yellow, it is telling the train crew that the next signal will be either yellow, or a more restrictive aspect.

Distant signals protect the next signal, that may be in a position thats hard to see from a distance, like around a sharp curve, or protect a yard or interlocking.

If you distant signal is green, then the signal it protects will be green also.

Its sorta like a early warning device, telling the crew to slow down and watch out for the next signal, which may be red.

Like most signals, once a train has passed it, it will turn red to protect the rear of the passing train, untill that train clears the block.

What Wabash was trying to say, I think, was that on his railroad, distant signals are allways yellow,(untill passed) never green.

Ed,

Your answer cleared up some things but got me even more confused on some other things!

I think I'm going to try to get down there tomorrow and see whether that signal does actually have a "D" sign on it. I don't think it acts the way you are describing, or the way wabash described.

There are no "green" signals here but I think what you mean by green is the same thing that signal means when it has three yellow lights in a vertical row. It can also have three yellow lights in a diagonal row, but I have rarely if ever seen it like that, or it can have two red lights in a horizontal row.

When a train is coming, that signal has the three vertical yellow lights, and that changes to the 2 horizontal red lights when a train passes it. That's what I meant when I said that it changes from yellow to red when a train passes it. None of the signals actually have any green colored lights whatsoever. (Some of the signals on the other side of the yard don't even have red lights -- the horizontal line of lights are yellow too!)

Why are there so many different kinds of signals? I would think it could get confusing for anyone who had to rely on two or more different systems. For me, it's well beyond confusing!

--Nora

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

A distant signal is just that, a signal the tells you what the next signal should show.
Most are yellow all the time, indicating that the next signal will be at least as restrictive as the yellow one.
If your distant signal shows yellow, it is telling the train crew that the next signal will be either yellow, or a more restrictive aspect.

Distant signals protect the next signal, that may be in a position thats hard to see from a distance, like around a sharp curve, or protect a yard or interlocking.

If you distant signal is green, then the signal it protects will be green also.

Its sorta like a early warning device, telling the crew to slow down and watch out for the next signal, which may be red.

Like most signals, once a train has passed it, it will turn red to protect the rear of the passing train, untill that train clears the block.

What Wabash was trying to say, I think, was that on his railroad, distant signals are allways yellow,(untill passed) never green.

Ed,

Your answer cleared up some things but got me even more confused on some other things!

I think I'm going to try to get down there tomorrow and see whether that signal does actually have a "D" sign on it. I don't think it acts the way you are describing, or the way wabash described.

There are no "green" signals here but I think what you mean by green is the same thing that signal means when it has three yellow lights in a vertical row. It can also have three yellow lights in a diagonal row, but I have rarely if ever seen it like that, or it can have two red lights in a horizontal row.

When a train is coming, that signal has the three vertical yellow lights, and that changes to the 2 horizontal red lights when a train passes it. That's what I meant when I said that it changes from yellow to red when a train passes it. None of the signals actually have any green colored lights whatsoever. (Some of the signals on the other side of the yard don't even have red lights -- the horizontal line of lights are yellow too!)

Why are there so many different kinds of signals? I would think it could get confusing for anyone who had to rely on two or more different systems. For me, it's well beyond confusing!

--Nora

[dharmon]

This was asked previously, probably even in this thread. Is BNSF still using fuel tenders? If so I think I saw on in San Diego at the port this morning in between two units on loco row. Nice line up by the way. About ten units in all too far away to make out types, but just about all ATSF, BN and BNSF represented (silver warbonnet, blue and yellows, green and whites, and of course the pumpkins).

[dharmon]

This was asked previously, probably even in this thread. Is BNSF still using fuel tenders? If so I think I saw on in San Diego at the port this morning in between two units on loco row. Nice line up by the way. About ten units in all too far away to make out types, but just about all ATSF, BN and BNSF represented (silver warbonnet, blue and yellows, green and whites, and of course the pumpkins).

[Modelcar]

....Jen, it seems the ditch light requirements are mounting dimensions and of course the correct kind of lights but the flashing feature seems to be up to individual railroads.

[Modelcar]

....Jen, it seems the ditch light requirements are mounting dimensions and of course the correct kind of lights but the flashing feature seems to be up to individual railroads.

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....In ref. to ditch lights as to whether they flash or not....I witnessed a train coming from the west on NS into our city today and they were not flashing. 2 of the 3 engines were Union Pacific and one of them [UP], was leading, hence no flashing. Difference being, all of the NS engines that I've seen do have flashing ditch lights that come through here. Just an observation. [8D]

Q - I never see flashing ditch lights on any of the BNSF engines. They are always just .....there. Must be a difference in railroads.

Mookie

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....In ref. to ditch lights as to whether they flash or not....I witnessed a train coming from the west on NS into our city today and they were not flashing. 2 of the 3 engines were Union Pacific and one of them [UP], was leading, hence no flashing. Difference being, all of the NS engines that I've seen do have flashing ditch lights that come through here. Just an observation. [8D]

Q - I never see flashing ditch lights on any of the BNSF engines. They are always just .....there. Must be a difference in railroads.

Mookie

[Modelcar]

....How about: A strip of land the railroad occupys and in most cases owns, and constructs and maintains it's track on. [8D]

[Modelcar]

....How about: A strip of land the railroad occupys and in most cases owns, and constructs and maintains it's track on. [8D]

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Willy2

What is the difference between a "mainline" and a "right of way"? I imaine that the answer is so simple I'll feel really nutty for not knowing!

Willy
Mainline is a heavily traveled part of the railroad.The Right of way is the area of land that the railroad can put track on.Before in another post The UP said its right of way extended all the way to the road.Its basically the property line of the railroad.
hope this helps[:)]
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Willy2

What is the difference between a "mainline" and a "right of way"? I imaine that the answer is so simple I'll feel really nutty for not knowing!

Willy
Mainline is a heavily traveled part of the railroad.The Right of way is the area of land that the railroad can put track on.Before in another post The UP said its right of way extended all the way to the road.Its basically the property line of the railroad.
hope this helps[:)]
stay safe
joe

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

OK, next question. [?]

This past Wednesday I saw a BNSF train while at the farm in Missouri. The lead unit was in green and had a large "G" painted in black on the nose. Does anyone know what this means? (NO Dan, I know it means the unit was green and had a black G on it . lol [:p] )

(BNSF seems to have more paint schemes than Carter has little pills. [:o)] )

Well actually I was going to say that it means your color blind and what you saw was a Guilford unit[:)][:)]But I think I like your my answer better[:)]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

OK, next question. [?]

This past Wednesday I saw a BNSF train while at the farm in Missouri. The lead unit was in green and had a large "G" painted in black on the nose. Does anyone know what this means? (NO Dan, I know it means the unit was green and had a black G on it . lol [:p] )

(BNSF seems to have more paint schemes than Carter has little pills. [:o)] )

Well actually I was going to say that it means your color blind and what you saw was a Guilford unit[:)][:)]But I think I like your my answer better[:)]

[Anonymous]

OK, next question. [?]

This past Wednesday I saw a BNSF train while at the farm in Missouri. The lead unit was in green and had a large "G" painted in black on the nose. Does anyone know what this means? (NO Dan, I know it means the unit was green and had a black G on it . lol [:p] )

(BNSF seems to have more paint schemes than Carter has little pills. [:o)] )

[Anonymous]

OK, next question. [?]

This past Wednesday I saw a BNSF train while at the farm in Missouri. The lead unit was in green and had a large "G" painted in black on the nose. Does anyone know what this means? (NO Dan, I know it means the unit was green and had a black G on it . lol [:p] )

(BNSF seems to have more paint schemes than Carter has little pills. [:o)] )

[edblysard]

Nora,
A interlockering plant is anywhere railroad tracks cross other tracks.
It may consist of a bunch of switches to route trains from one track to another, or be as simple as a plain diamond.
Realize that at a diamond, you have to have some way to control traffic, who goes fists if two trains arrive at the same time.
This can be controled by signals, CTC, or something easy, like a stop sign.
The term interlocker is a leftover from the days of interlocking towers, which were manned, and a person had to line the trains up, from one track to another, or give permission for one train to cross before another.
The switches were controled from the tower, and the machine had a series of interlocking parts that would prevent the towerman from lining switches that would create opposing traffic, in other words, running trains into each other.
You could only line up switches for given routes, if you tried to line them incorrectly, the machine would lock the incorrect handle, and prevent you from lining that wrong switch.
Nowdays big interlockings are controled by the dispatcher via power switches.
Small interlocking plants may still have a tower.
Damonds and wyes shared by two or more railroads may have a maunal interlocking, where you go to a small control building, press a button to change the signals to stop traffic on the other track, then hand line the switches.
These are not very common, but we have one here on the PTRA.

A distant signal is just that, a signal the tells you what the next signal should show.
Most are yellow all the time, indicating that the next signal will be at least as restrictive as the yellow one.
If your distant signal shows yellow, it is telling the train crew that the next signal will be either yellow, or a more restrictive aspect.

Distant signals protect the next signal, that may be in a position thats hard to see from a distance, like around a sharp curve, or protect a yard or interlocking.

If you distant signal is green, then the signal it protects will be green also.

Its sorta like a early warning device, telling the crew to slow down and watch out for the next signal, which may be red.

Like most signals, once a train has passed it, it will turn red to protect the rear of the passing train, untill that train clears the block.

What Wabash was trying to say, I think, was that on his railroad, distant signals are allways yellow,(untill passed) never green.

The C on the other signal indicates that it is a control point, and that any red indication to stop must be followed, and the dispatcher should be contacted via radio to get permission to proceed past it.(no stop, then go)

Sum it up, distant signals protect the next signal, which will always be either the same color(indication) or a more restrictive indication.

Control points are just that, a point where the dispatcher can stop trains and hold them to clear up traffic ahead.

Both types of these signal are often used to protect yards, and the point where you enter another railroads tracks, or wyes, draw bridges, diamonds any point where you have to give advance warning to approching trains.

Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Nora,
A interlockering plant is anywhere railroad tracks cross other tracks.
It may consist of a bunch of switches to route trains from one track to another, or be as simple as a plain diamond.
Realize that at a diamond, you have to have some way to control traffic, who goes fists if two trains arrive at the same time.
This can be controled by signals, CTC, or something easy, like a stop sign.
The term interlocker is a leftover from the days of interlocking towers, which were manned, and a person had to line the trains up, from one track to another, or give permission for one train to cross before another.
The switches were controled from the tower, and the machine had a series of interlocking parts that would prevent the towerman from lining switches that would create opposing traffic, in other words, running trains into each other.
You could only line up switches for given routes, if you tried to line them incorrectly, the machine would lock the incorrect handle, and prevent you from lining that wrong switch.
Nowdays big interlockings are controled by the dispatcher via power switches.
Small interlocking plants may still have a tower.
Damonds and wyes shared by two or more railroads may have a maunal interlocking, where you go to a small control building, press a button to change the signals to stop traffic on the other track, then hand line the switches.
These are not very common, but we have one here on the PTRA.

A distant signal is just that, a signal the tells you what the next signal should show.
Most are yellow all the time, indicating that the next signal will be at least as restrictive as the yellow one.
If your distant signal shows yellow, it is telling the train crew that the next signal will be either yellow, or a more restrictive aspect.

Distant signals protect the next signal, that may be in a position thats hard to see from a distance, like around a sharp curve, or protect a yard or interlocking.

If you distant signal is green, then the signal it protects will be green also.

Its sorta like a early warning device, telling the crew to slow down and watch out for the next signal, which may be red.

Like most signals, once a train has passed it, it will turn red to protect the rear of the passing train, untill that train clears the block.

What Wabash was trying to say, I think, was that on his railroad, distant signals are allways yellow,(untill passed) never green.

The C on the other signal indicates that it is a control point, and that any red indication to stop must be followed, and the dispatcher should be contacted via radio to get permission to proceed past it.(no stop, then go)

Sum it up, distant signals protect the next signal, which will always be either the same color(indication) or a more restrictive indication.

Control points are just that, a point where the dispatcher can stop trains and hold them to clear up traffic ahead.

Both types of these signal are often used to protect yards, and the point where you enter another railroads tracks, or wyes, draw bridges, diamonds any point where you have to give advance warning to approching trains.

Stay Frosty,
Ed