Hold The Mayo: Study Says DME Cant Repay Loan

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by doghouse

O/T: Hey Silzi, is that the PCE grade you are standing on?

Yup. Just inside of MT on the Idaho-MT state line.

That's even a genuine Milw Road tie.

I wanted to bring it home but the ball and chain said no.

Why the hell would you want that she said.

Do you know what this is I said.

Yes, and I am not riding all the way back to Wisconsin with that she said.

But it's my honeymoon I said.

Tough*** she said.

Oaky enough of that. No hard feelings or anything. I love my wife, honest.

[solzrules]

[:(][:(]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules
......Well I'm perfect..........[:D]

yeah, but a perfect what? [;)]

Come on now. That hurts.

[:(][V][V][:(]

[vsmith]

It does look like its still the Rochester/Mayo NIMBY coalition -vs- Everyone else, doesnt it.
I would never trust a report that was sponcered and paid for by the opposition and just happens to come to a conclusion supportive of the group that commisioned the report in the first place. If you beleive in that than I guess smoking cures cancer....

[wallyworld]

Although the Plainsman article was posted earlier, the additional information is very interesting news, at least to me. There were more ducks lined up than I supposed, in the DME camp. Is this a tipping point?

[zardoz]

State’s delegation sends letter defending DM&E project
BY PLAINSMAN STAFF

As the Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern Railroad awaits word on whether its application for $2.5 billion in loan funds is approved by the Federal Railroad Administration, South Dakota’s delegation is expressing concern about a recent document released by opponents of the railroad project.
The delegation, in a joint letter Wednesday to FRA Administrator Joseph Boardman, calls into question the objectivity of the report. Sens. Tim Johnson and John Thune and Rep. Stephanie Herseth also reiterated their unanimous support of a project that would create thousands of jobs in South Dakota.
The FRA has until mid-June to announce its decision on the loan application for the Powder River Basin project.
“The sponsors of the study have clearly indicated that they oppose the PRB project, which raises questions about the impartiality of their analysis,” the delegation wrote.
“Clearly, a more credible source of information regarding DM&E’s finances is the railroad itself. We request that you give appropriate deference to the information it has provided to you regarding its financial condition and consider the source of the other information that you receive.”
Fifty-five of the 56 communities along the DM&E line have reached agreements with the railroad regarding rail traffic and mitigation issues, the delegation said.
The FRA has a strong track record of issuing sound loans to all classes of railroads, the letter said.

http://www.plainsman.com/main.php?story_id=9001&page=23

[zardoz]

(KAAL) -- Throughout Rochester's fight with DM&E railroad, congressman Gil Gutknecht has kept a pretty low profile, and he says there's a good reason.

While the city of Rochester, Olmsted County and the Mayo Clinic all oppose the expansion plan; local farmers say it could be a big help for them.

Ron Pagel, a farmer south of Rochester, spends a lot of his time harvesting. Now that planting season is here, many other farmers are keeping their crops in mind as well.

With the renewed debates about the DM&E railroad being routed away from Rochester, these farmers wonder how their crops can be easily transported.

"You can put a lot of trucks on one train and that takes that many tucks off the hwy," says Ron Pagel, Olmsted Co. Farm Bureau President.

Groups like the Farm Bureau of Minnesota are hoping that an upgraded railroad through Rochester will give them even quicker transports of their goods while keeping the crops at a decent price.

"If they re-route that through Iowa, They'll never upgrade our section of the railroad"

"I think the reason why I tried to keep a relatively low profile is because I know that many of the farm groups--while it's true that Mayo is the largest single employer in the State of Minnesota, and certainly the first congressional district--agriculture is still the most important industry in southern MN," said Rep. Gil Gutknecht, (R) Minnesota.

Congressmen like Gil Gutnecht are now trying to find a middle ground for the people around Rochester.

Today, names like Norm Colman and Mark Dayton joined his on a letter sent to congress urging the federal railroad administration to analyze the federal loan given to the DM&E to make sure the money wasn't being used frivolously.

The site even has some video:
http://www.kaaltv.com/article/view/100206/

[zardoz]

Here is some interesting info: http://www.dmerail.com/PRB%20Project.html

[zardoz]

Liebling schedules town hall meeting on DM&E
State Rep. Tina Liebling will have a town hall meeting in Rochester on Sunday to discuss the Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern Railroad expansion issue. The meeting begins at 3:30 p.m. in the board room at the city-county Government Center.

There is more to the article, but you need a subscription to access it.
http://news.postbulletin.com/newsmanager/templates/localnews_story.asp?a=257352

[wallyworld]

Former South Dakota Senator Tom Daschle says his appointment to the Mayo Clinic's board of directors would not put him at odds with the Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern Railroad's coal train project.
Daschle says he was just elected to the Mayo board about a week ago and has never discussed the coal train issue with clinic officials.

The Sioux Falls-based railroad wants to link eastern Wyoming coal fields with Midwestern power plants by building new track to the coal fields and upgrading its existing line across South Dakota and southern Minnesota. The line runs through Rochester, Minnesota, and near the clinic, and Mayo has been opposed to that expansion

Wally: me thinks no comment required

[wallyworld]

Antigates-thats certainly a theory that warrants a marker, as it would be a vested interest.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl


Most high government officials go to Walter Reed Hospital. Since it's run by the Army, there's more security for them.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/medtour/wreed.html

Yeah, I know they go to WR for the implant that they put in them, and for routine checkups, but for some reason it seems like I recall the Mayo being where they go for the more indepth (pun intended) stuff.


http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/m/mayo_clinic/index.html?query=HEALTH,%20PERSONAL&field=des&match=exact

[TomDiehl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Historically, the barrier of perfection to detect fault in ones own perspective, and in others seems to have been surmounted long ago. Does one complaint out of 56 weigh
more in the political arena? Well see what we see.

Maybe the Mayo has medical services "clout" with the Federal government? Isn't that where the top dogs go to get their oil changed, etc?

Seems like Reagan used to go there a lot, maybe Cheney does too?

Most high government officials go to Walter Reed Hospital. Since it's run by the Army, there's more security for them.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/hmd/medtour/wreed.html

[doghouse]

O/T: Hey Silzi, is that the PCE grade you are standing on?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Historically, the barrier of perfection to detect fault in ones own perspective, and in others seems to have been surmounted long ago. Does one complaint out of 56 weigh
more in the political arena? Well see what we see.

Maybe the Mayo has medical services "clout" with the Federal government? Isn't that where the top dogs go to get their oil changed, etc?

Seems like Reagan used to go there a lot, maybe Cheney does too?

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules
......Well I'm perfect..........[:D]

yeah, but a perfect what? [;)]

[wallyworld]

Historically, the barrier of perfection to detect fault in ones own perspective, and in others seems to have been surmounted long ago. Does one complaint out of 56 weigh
more in the political arena? Well see what we see.

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Antigates-You have to wonder what the back story is. Although Mayo is certainly a player in Minnesota, beyond the border it only has brand recognition akin to Frosted Flakes.
It's political reach in Minnesota appears to exceed its grasp in Washington, unless there is a connection there I am unaware of, which is always possible.--<snip>-it would not surprise me if this is a tempest in a teapot inasmuch one has to ask, how much clout does Mayo really does have?

It's all a matter of perspective, I guess.


Does one have to be "perfect" in order to be allowed to find fault with others?

Last I checked, no one was perfect, but there are lots of complainers, draw your own conclusion.

......Well I'm perfect..........[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Antigates-You have to wonder what the back story is. Although Mayo is certainly a player in Minnesota, beyond the border it only has brand recognition akin to Frosted Flakes.
It's political reach in Minnesota appears to exceed its grasp in Washington, unless there is a connection there I am unaware of, which is always possible.--<snip>-it would not surprise me if this is a tempest in a teapot inasmuch one has to ask, how much clout does Mayo really does have?

It's all a matter of perspective, I guess.


Does one have to be "perfect" in order to be allowed to find fault with others?

Last I checked, no one was perfect, but there are lots of complainers, draw your own conclusion.

[wallyworld]

Antigates-You have to wonder what the back story is. Although Mayo is certainly a player in Minnesota, beyond the border it only has brand recognition akin to Frosted Flakes.
It's political reach in Minnesota appears to exceed its grasp in Washington, unless there is a connection there I am unaware of, which is always possible. Again, where are the potential customers in all this? With all the hue and cry about monopolistic entrapment targeted at the current carriers from the utlilties, why are they not advocating more competition ie-DME?

"Schieffer said utilities encouraged the DM&E more than a decade ago to expand into the Wyoming coal business. With FRA officials analyzing the revenue prospects of the DM&E's expansion, he said utility support is important."

Vested interest is another term for conspiracy when it comes to politics, more often than not. If I had press credentials I would ask the utilities, What is your stake in this, if any? I dont see any governors weighing in, especially in Minnesota...it would not surprise me if this is a tempest in a teapot inasmuch one has to ask, how much clout does Mayo really does have?

[gabe]

Sorry I can't read this thread in its entirety, but did anyone notice that the report measures the cost of the lone against DM&E's CURRENT equity value. Obviously, if DM&E gets the loan, its value will go up ten fold.

I think the DM&E is a mistake, as its enterance into the market will disrupt the financial predictions its expansion was based upon. But, I think this demonstrates the report was less than objective.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld


Note to DME-You will need all the connected allies you can find.

A-HA!! a conspiracy,.....I knew it. [}:)]

[wallyworld]

Escalation into State versus state. Dakota , the state that was characterized in this fracass as being worth less than the Mayo itself, steps up to the plate. Minnesota makes a bee line to the Secretary of Transportation-ups the ante.
DM&E president Kevin Schieffer said he wasn't too worried about the letter or the report.

"Mayo's tax-exempt resources and Rochester's tax dollars have produced more nonsense that will be rejected as every other discredited study they have done," he said.


http://ap.brainerddispatch.com/pstories/state/mn/20060518/3893770.shtml

State’s delegation sends letter defending DM&E project
BY PLAINSMAN STAFF

As the Dakota, Minnesota & Eastern Railroad awaits word on whether its application for $2.5 billion in loan funds is approved by the Federal Railroad Administration, South Dakota’s delegation is expressing concern about a recent document released by opponents of the railroad project.
The delegation, in a joint letter Wednesday to FRA Administrator Joseph Boardman, calls into question the objectivity of the report. Sens. Tim Johnson and John Thune and Rep. Stephanie Herseth also reiterated their unanimous support of a project that would create thousands of jobs in South Dakota.
The FRA has until mid-June to announce its decision on the loan application for the Powder River Basin project.
“The sponsors of the study have clearly indicated that they oppose the PRB project, which raises questions about the impartiality of their analysis,” the delegation wrote.
“Clearly, a more credible source of information regarding DM&E’s finances is the railroad itself. We request that you give appropriate deference to the information it has provided to you regarding its financial condition and consider the source of the other information that you receive.”
Fifty-five of the 56 communities along the DM&E line have reached agreements with the railroad regarding rail traffic and mitigation issues, the delegation said.
The FRA has a strong track record of issuing sound loans to all classes of railroads, the letter said.

[wallyworld]

Short version: Why build a hospital next to a railroad and then complain that you hear trains? Duh...

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by marcimmeker

What I would like to know is this. Has the city of Rochester or the Mayo clinic ever signalled an intention to compromise like the other towns have done?
Or heve they just said no, no, no.

Are they holding out for the best deal possible?

These days there are a variety of means to counter the noise pollution etc.
I live next to a busy four track going to eight tracks mainline plus storage yard here in the southern part of Rotterdam the Netherlands.
To combat noise pollution the trackowner (a government company) builds a 6 meter high soundbarrier on the other side of the tracks.
We, on our side, are luckier as they are installing sound dampening equipment around the rails so we keep our view and heve less noise.

From a trip to Japan I remember various elevated limited access highways that had a roof (like a tunnel on stilts). You could do that with a railline.

However these are expensive measures so is this only dealing by both sides to get the best deal?
greetings,
Marc Immeker

Marc -

There has been a lot of speculation as to what the real reasons are behind the Mayo clinic's (and the city of Rochester) refusal to come to the negotiating table. If they were holding out for the best possible deal then you would think that they would at least signal the intent to negotiate. So far, all they have done is refused. And they have failed to offer any suggestions as to what the DME could do to ally their concerns.

Tommy Daschle suggested that the line could be run under the city of Rochester. My understanding is that this is impossible for the railroad due to the proximity of river nearby. I suppose elevating the line could be taken into consideration, but I highly doubt that the city of Rochester would actually PAY for such a project.

Personally I think Rochester and the Mayo clinic are against any and all suggestions of increased use of the railroad in that city. I guess time will tell.

[MStLfan]

What I would like to know is this. Has the city of Rochester or the Mayo clinic ever signalled an intention to compromise like the other towns have done?
Or heve they just said no, no, no.

Are they holding out for the best deal possible?

These days there are a variety of means to counter the noise pollution etc.
I live next to a busy four track going to eight tracks mainline plus storage yard here in the southern part of Rotterdam the Netherlands.
To combat noise pollution the trackowner (a government company) builds a 6 meter high soundbarrier on the other side of the tracks.
We, on our side, are luckier as they are installing sound dampening equipment around the rails so we keep our view and heve less noise.

From a trip to Japan I remember various elevated limited access highways that had a roof (like a tunnel on stilts). You could do that with a railline.

However these are expensive measures so is this only dealing by both sides to get the best deal?
greetings,
Marc Immeker

[blhanel]

QUOTE: Originally posted by samfp1943

Why not work with the City of Rochester [eminent domain] and swing South of town. or even North?. Looks like mostly farmland there. I would thionk that if this is such an issue to the community, they would be willing to pay and pay dearly to get the DM&E out of their town, Let Rochester pony up for the infrastructure move, or dig a ditch right through town same as they did in, I think it was Reno,Nv for the UP.
Also it appears to me that the City Owatona will have som real issues with increased traffic in their community.
Sam

Actually, the area around Rochester is very hilly and populated with residential developments consisting of multi-acre lots. No matter which way they go, the DM&E is severely limited by the terrain and would wipe out quite a few residences in the process. I've mentioned it before, a ditch wouldn't be a good idea either, as it would probably put the railroad dangerously close to or below the level of the Zumbro River, which also runs through downtown Rochester. I think their best choice is to elevate the roadbed east of US 52 and turn all the downtown grade crossings into underpasses.

Owatonna may also have issues, but they don't have the clout, political or otherwise, and there are probably alot of people there that would like to see increased traffic on the railroad.

[samfp1943]

http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&tab=wl&q=Rochester%2CMn
When you look at this map of the track structure through Rochester, it looks like a couple of turns that will need to be straightened out, but road alignments could be an issue. Why not work with the City of Rochester [eminent domain] and swing South of town. or even North?. Looks like mostly farmland there. I would thionk that if this is such an issue to the community, they would be willing to pay and pay dearly to get the DM&E out of their town, Let Rochester pony up for the infrastructure move, or dig a ditch right through town same as they did in, I think it was Reno,Nv for the UP.
Also it appears to me that the City Owatona will have som real issues with increased traffic in their community.
Sam

[solzrules]

Ah yes.

Ladies and Gentlemen the pillar of truth, the last bastion of honesty, the sole proprietor of moral integrity-

(Drum roll please)

TOM DASCHLE!

(massive rabid applause here)

Now all of this should be taken care of in a jiffy.

I think my electric rates are going down already. [8)]

[StillGrande]

My favorite argument in this is that Senator Thune should not be allowed to argue about this because he used to be a lobbyist, but the former Senator Daschle is okay to be appointed to the Mayo Board (this year no less) and argue for the Clinic side and that is okay. It is also evidently okay for lobbyists to try to influence elected officials (including supporting their campaigns through contributions) but not to become elected officials.

The clinic argument is the same one DC is trying against CSX to get hazardous materials routed around DC and DME is giving the same responses about why they can't (including the "okay, so what population center has less valuable people we can put at risk and we will run trains through there").

[wallyworld]

Summary:
Another big politico dog weighs in. Doublespeak. Daschle to be helpful in finding middle ground and mediate by subtly kicking DME in the pants where it will count. Mediator seeking middle ground says DME is unreasonable. Some mediation. DME doesnt get it. You cant go around the city without going somewhere else. Opposition says Go Somewhere Else. Its all goofy says DME. Guess where this will end. Note to DME-You will need all the connected allies you can find. Where are the Ulilities who decry monopoly in this dog fight? Noticably silent. Do they consider this project a well intentioned but financially shaky proposition? Theres more of a back story in this than headlines cover.