Hold The Mayo: Study Says DME Cant Repay Loan

[n012944]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

well then if you won't call the action brought by the Mayo coalition an "appeal", what would you call it then??

a dumb waste of tax money[8D]

[Anonymous]

well then if you won't call the action brought by the Mayo coalition an "appeal", what would you call it then??

[rrandb]

What appeal? The STB granted the extension. They are now attacking DME's federal grant money to build the railroad accourding to News Week. They have permision to build the railroad. They need to find the money. This is a public smear campain to ward off potential investors including the government by threating to delay construction with lawsuits if nesissary.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

You are obviously new to how an STB application works. The DME STB proposal is at there web site. If you read it it will answer most of you questions. They are not a court. It is a regulatory board that as a citizen even you could appear before.

You are probably correct, still, I think it would be very unwise to make such an appeal without first having made an exhaustive search of past precedents, and making sure the appeal is framed without any self defeating flaws.


I mean isn't that what commerce lawyers do for a living?

[rrandb]

You are obviously new to how an STB application works. The DME STB proposal is at there web site. If you read it it will answer most of you questions. They are not a court. It is a regulatory board that as a citizen even you could appear before.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by solzrules

QUOTE:
Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

Those towns don't sound that small to me to be intimidated by the big bad railroad. Poor things. How will they cope?

well, just for the sake of discussion, in a hypothetical scenario where any one of those towns opted to resist the DME, how much re$ource$ would you say that DME would be willing to throw at them?

I'm just pulling numbers from thin air, but I'd hazard a guess that those towns smaller than 30K would be hard pressed to come up with more than just a couple $thousand for legal fees.

So, all DME would have to do is out spend them until they exhausted their resources.

Maybe many of them simply opted to not fight a battle they (the small fry villages) couldn't afford to win?

IF SO, that is certainly a new spin on the "everybody else approved it, except Rochester" argument.

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Read the DME application. It will answer most of your questions. One other town is now reconsidering its early agreement to not contest. I think all towns affected had a chance to voice there concerns to STB. The STB would by law have to investigate any claims of bullying you can substantiate. [2c]

A think it is a case of a few people thinking that they might be able to unilaterally re-open agreements and hold out for more concessions.

If these towns were bullied into an agreement, it would make for a great populist movie about small town America fighting off big bad corporations. (That script hasn't been played out to death before i.e. 'Roger and Me')

I am sure you're right. I think the STB would certainly hear such complaints and take those into consideration when issuing descisions on this whole affair. Unless there is proof, it is only a case of wishful thinking on the part of a few looking for a new cause to make their lives seem more worthwhile.

[rrandb]

Read the DME application. It will answer most of your questions. One other town is now reconsidering its early agreement to not contest. I think all towns affected had a chance to voice there concerns to STB. The STB would by law have to investigate any claims of bullying you can substantiate. [2c]

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

Thanks. Well, just in consideration of the comments that no other towns have tried to block the DME , Maybe that is partly to do with the likelihood that the small fry towns and villages felt overmatched against the DME's resources? Like a fly on an elephant?

Whereas, Rochester, with it's relationship with Mayo, might feel more confident about making their wishes heard? Just a thought.

Some of those little towns can't even pay the local cop unless he gets out and writes enough speeding tickets. The legal fees alone required to take on an entity such as the DME might put some of those towns into insolvency.

Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

Those towns don't sound that small to me to be intimidated by the big bad railroad. Poor things. How will they cope?

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal


Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

[(-D][(-D] You're off by about 4. Murphy Siding is now a weed patch, about 20 miles west of the proposed "new" line south of Wasta.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

Thanks. Well, just in consideration of the comments that no other towns have tried to block the DME , Maybe that is partly to do with the likelihood that the small fry towns and villages felt overmatched against the DME's resources? Like a fly on an elephant?

Whereas, Rochester, with it's relationship with Mayo, might feel more confident about making their wishes heard? Just a thought.

Some of those little towns can't even pay the local cop unless he gets out and writes enough speeding tickets. The legal fees alone required to take on an entity such as the DME might put some of those towns into insolvency.

Winona MN - population 30,000+
Mankato MN - 30,000+
Owatonna MN - 20,000+
New Ulm MN - 15,000+
Brookings SD - 15,000+
Huron SD - 15,000+
Pierre/Ft. Pierre SD - 15,000+
Souix Falls SD - 100,000
Rapid City SD - 50,000
Mitchell SD - 15,000
Murphy Siding SD - 4[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

Thanks. Well, just in consideration of the comments that no other towns have tried to block the DME , Maybe that is partly to do with the likelihood that the small fry towns and villages felt overmatched against the DME's resources? Like a fly on an elephant?

Whereas, Rochester, with it's relationship with Mayo, might feel more confident about making their wishes heard? Just a thought.

Some of those little towns can't even pay the local cop unless he gets out and writes enough speeding tickets. The legal fees alone required to take on an entity such as the DME might put some of those towns into insolvency.

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

How does Rochester compare (sizewise) to the other Minnesota towns along the proposed route?

Going west probably one of the largest. East is another story. To the west the line is mostly going thru dirt and praire with a town here and there. There are few towns of any size as you get near the coal fields.

[Anonymous]

How does Rochester compare (sizewise) to the other Minnesota towns along the proposed route?

[solzrules]

interesting.....

[zardoz]

DM&E poll almost evenly split


In the Rochester Post Bulletin's online poll Back Talk Friday, more than half of 585 people who responded said the Dakota Minnesota and Eastern Railroad should be able to proceed with reconstructing its line and running coal trains through Rochester.

In the poll, 307 respondents or 52.5 percent chose that option.

The Rochester Coalition including the city, Olmsted County and Mayo Clinic is seeking federal money to build a tunnel to keep coal traffic away from the Mayo Clinic, and 103 poll respondents, 17.6 percent, thought that was the appropriate solution. Nearly the same number, 100, or 17.1 percent said a bypass was preferable to a tunnel, and 75, 12.8 percent, said no DM&E coal trains should go through Rochester.

Unless it includes a tunnel or bypass to avoid the Mayo Clinic, the Rochester Coalition opposes the DM&E's $2.5 billion plan to rebuild its line across Minnesota and South Dakota and extend it to Wyoming's Powder River basin to haul coal to power plants in the Midwest and East.

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2006605310316

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EUCLID TRAVIS

While it is apparent that the DM&E is facing a lot of public opposition, is there any way that this opposition can prevent the DM&E from going through with its plans? What control does the Rochester Coalition have over the DM&E?

As near as I can tell they are facing opposition from one group in one town along a 600 mile proposed routing. That means the other 99% are either silent or OK with there plans. They are facing very loud and very vocal opposition from a very small group of people whos lives may or may not be adversly affected as opposed to the large number of people who lives will be improved. [2c] As always ENJOY

[solzrules]

QUOTE: Originally posted by EUCLID TRAVIS

While it is apparent that the DM&E is facing a lot of public opposition, is there any way that this opposition can prevent the DM&E from going through with its plans? What control does the Rochester Coalition have over the DM&E?

Fortunately they don't have any. The only avenue they have is the court system. I am sure they will have no qualms spending lots of taxpayer money fighting a railroad .....that is already there. No additional trackage proposed, just upgrading the existing to make everything safer. And Rochester has a problem with this. Sounds like an air-tight court case to me. We should be hearing about it for the next 10 years.

[Anonymous]

While it is apparent that the DM&E is facing a lot of public opposition, is there any way that this opposition can prevent the DM&E from going through with its plans? What control does the Rochester Coalition have over the DM&E?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz



What is really ironic, is that the club is located on a very busy highway, so the complaints of noise and traffic are really irrelevant. The problem is that one of the nearby residents (that moved in recently, by the way), knows somebody on the town board.

Just goes to show, you don't have to be doing anything wrong, except tick the wrong people off, to get in "trouble"

Your buddy is a perfect example of how wrong the people are who bleat "if you're not doing anything wrong, you should have nothing to worry about."

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

Its short for elevated line-CTA

Can't fight city hall...

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wjstix

So please...let's not get into all the liberal-bashing and Ted Kennedy-bashing and "it's all Al Gore's fault" baloney here!![;)]

But it is Al Gore's fault... he invented the internet, remember?

(Fuzzy ducks out...)

[wjstix]

Not to get into the political stuff, but since someone brought it up...I know a bit about Rochester MN (my great-grandfather was born there, delivered by Dr. Mayo - the dad of the Mayo brothers who started the clinic) and about MN politics, and I'd like to point out that for all practical purposes, there are no Democrats in Rochester!![:O] The congressional district Rochester is in has elected one very conservative Democrat to congress - all the rest from 1858 to today are/were Republicans. I don't think they've ever elected a Democrat state legislator or mayor - maybe one somewhere along the way but I wouldn't bet on it.

So please...let's not get into all the liberal-bashing and Ted Kennedy-bashing and "it's all Al Gore's fault" baloney here!![;)]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardozThat EXACT scenario is currently happening to a buddy of mine in Manitowoc.

I can almost identify with his neighbors - although it's not the bar itself I have issues with - it's been there since I moved to my current house (28 years ago) and has never been an all that annoying. The Friday night DJ or band isn't really a problem, and the place is actually pretty quiet the rest of the time. Even the occasional visit from hoards of ATVs or motorcycles is livable.

What I have a problem with is the bar owner's son and his "band" practicing all evening. I don't mind music (although his Doors attempts leave something to desire), but I get tired of hours of mindless beating on the drums and endless riffs on the electric piano. I know they have visions of greatness, but I'm having visions of speaking to the owner, then to the cops. It makes being outside on a summer evening just that much less enjoyable.

This doesn't really equate to the railroad situation - The "band" thing is different from the usual bar "fare." Even if the bar tripled it's patronage, it wouldn't be as annoying as the little twerps 'upstairs.'

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

That EXACT scenario is currently happening to a buddy of mine in Manitowoc.

It's sadly amusing what petty, vindictive people we truly are..

I go to the monthly meetings of my neighborhood association primarily to stay abreast of all the conspiratorial backstabbing that goes on, listening to them discuss what some neighbors perceive to be "problem" households, and how (example) although what the household is doing is not illegal, they share strategies to make sure weed violations, tardy garbage can retrievals, long curb parking of second autos, etc etc etc get reported "round robin style" mostly as a tool of harrassment against their declared adversaries.

I go to the meetings chiefly so that they can't talk about me, without making seperate arrangements [:o)]

This guy has worked real hard to grow his business and bring tax revenue to this little town, and all the locals (at least those that live nearby) can do is complain. He has remodeled his establishment both inside and out, paved his lot, put up 6' stockade fencing; everything the neighbors have asked, and it still isn't enough. He has come to the conclusion that they are trying to run him out of the small area where he is.

What is really ironic, is that the club is located on a very busy highway, so the complaints of noise and traffic are really irrelevant. The problem is that one of the nearby residents (that moved in recently, by the way), knows somebody on the town board.

[rrandb]

Say 100 years ago you surveyed the best route for the railroad and built it. A fine town grew up and prospered. Then because of this fine towns location you decided to build a world class hospital. And now that the railroad wants to return to what I suspect will be a level of tracffic for which there is an historic precendent (i.e. grain harvest etc.?) you are upset. If this project were being built with private capital it would be nearing completion by now. What ever cost savings were associated with a goverment loan have probablly long since evaporated. If you can not live without the government cheese then you are going to have to improve your ability to get it. It may be time to bring in the profesionals who solve problems like this for a living. I am not refering to political flunkys but trained negotiators who can make inteligent cost anailisis of all your various positions. Just because you beleive what you are doing is right does not always make it smart. It may be money in the bank and new rails on the praire to take a different approach. [2c] As always ENJOY

[edbenton]

I have read all the replies and it is coming clear that Rochestor is never going to bend and neither is the RR however the railroad has the advantage since 1 They are already running through there. 2 they also have the ability to upgrade the rail line regardless of what rochestor says the good ole ICC clause. Rochestor is going to lose and lose huge with this one.

[wallyworld]

Its short for elevated line-CTA

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

When I was a kid I lived next to the L tracks on Sheffield Avenue-24 hours a day-every fifteen minutes-7 days a week. A different era.

Who owns the L? CTA?

[wallyworld]

When I was a kid I lived next to the L tracks on Sheffield Avenue-24 hours a day-every fifteen minutes-7 days a week. A different era.