Railfanning With High Gas Prices -- SMART START--What it is and what it does.

[Anonymous]

I hear that the china thing is causeing gas prices to severely go up.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Here is some info about companies who are developing ethanol.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/jun2006/nf20060612_5577_db016.htm?campaign_id=search


Currently ethanol is not reducing the price or demand for gas/oil. Some articles I have read said it is actually jacking the price up some. [:0]

I hope to post some more info on ethanol in the next few days that will give us more info about it.

I don't use ethanol anymore. Regular unleaded is cheaper.

[chicagorails]

about 100 plants operating now, with around 50 or more being built and in early stages.

will there be enough corn for cows and cars?? more farm land is being gobbled up by suburbs and malls.

what if there is a bad drought?? no corn, back to oil.

takes 3 gallons water to process i gallon eth. some towns fighting plants from being built cause of fear of low water tables and drought.

i dont see any problems with the use of solar cars. they had solar vehicles on the moon so why not here? answer, the oil billionares want to stay billionares!!![:(]

[Anonymous]

I just hearn that crude hit an all time high of $75. Gas prices are up too $3.oo now.

[Modelcar]

Right...crude today was a bit over 75 dollars a bbl.....and gasoline price here in central Indiana is now 3.09....Diesel: 3.09

[Anonymous]

I noticed last week that our gas prices went back up and we lost EVERYTHING that was gained over the last month or so. We are again at $2.79 for regular unleaded and $2.99 for premium unleaded. I will have to look tomorrow and see what our price has jumped to now.

Isn't it funny how QUICKLY the prices will rise on bad news but good news seems to have little effect upon lowering the higher prices? !

[Modelcar]

We're at prices now that almost a year ago they were using excuses such as "it's the fault of Katrina, etc....}. We all know what some of the reasonings are....and it's not supply and demand. Just two weeks or so ago we were purchasing N Leaded here for 51 cents a gal less then today....!!!!

[Trainmaster.Curt]

Well, i don't have a liscense or a car. But i do have a trusty Italian Fiori bicycle, and the CPR main line and the CEMR Pine Junction are all in biking distance(Was just railfanning there today), and the CNR main line is biking distance from my place. Plus many buses in Winnipeg run close to rail routes, so i am lucky. But i guess for the rural country railfan, a car is a must.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chicagorails




takes 3 gallons water to process i gallon eth. some towns fighting plants from being built cause of fear of low water tables and drought.


i dont see any problems with the use of solar cars. they had solar vehicles on the moon so why not here? answer, the oil billionares want to stay billionares!!![:(]

This question does mention that the water is seperated from the alcohol mix. What is then done with the water I don't know. However, it possible could be used again there in the process.

I agree with your second statement. THAT is exactly why nothing has been done much more than lip service from our elected officials for the last 30 some years.


Here is today's segment for the questions and answers. The source was an AOL News Article.



What exactly is ethanol?


The fuel is derived from plants through a fairly straightforward process. In one common method, corn is first ground into a fine powder, mixed with water, and then heated. An enzyme is then added to convert the mixture into sugars before yeast is added to ferment it. The resulting liquid, called "beer," is about 10% alcohol. A distillation process then separates the alcohol from the rest of the mixture before the remaining water is removed. The result is essentially pure alcohol. A small amount of gas is added to render the liquid undrinkable. Then the fuel can be used by itself or as a supplement to gasoline to power cars.

Ethanol has three advantages, at least in theory: It's renewable, it can be domestically produced, and it burns cleaner than gas. The world's largest producers of ethanol are the U.S., which makes it primarily from corn, and Brazil, which mashes the stuff out of sugarcane.

[Anonymous]

How much energy is used to distill Alcolhol Vs the net amount recived?

I mean you use fertiliser derived from oil to grow the corn,,,energy to pump water to irrigate the corn,,,tractor fuel to harvest the corn. Diesal to power the trucks and the trains to deliver it and natural gas to boil and distill the beer into ethonal...
Now you have to use more diesal to power the Unit trains to deliver the Fuel to a tank terminal and then tanker trucks to get it to the gas station....When do you break even?

Oil in tractors to harvest the corn

[Anonymous]

Here is the next question and answer. I hope as we do these that we do learn something. [;)]



Beyond high gas prices, why is everyone talking about ethanol?


It's becoming an increasingly important part of the fuel supply, and has the potential to become still more crucial. President George W. Bush and members of Congress have expressed support for ethanol use. And this spring, refiners in parts of Texas and the Northeast have been replacing a gasoline additive called MTBE (for methyl tertiary-butyl ether) with ethanol. MTBE, a chemical used to oxygenate fuel, can contaminate drinking water. Ethanol, which does not present the same danger, can serve the same purpose in fuel.

That's not all. The 2005 energy bill requires that the U.S. boost its ethanol production to 7.5 billion gallons by 2012, up from about 4 billion in 2005. This sounds like a whole lot of ethanol, but bear in mind, last year the U.S. slurped up almost 140 billion gallons of gas.

[Anonymous]

I noticed that our prices went up 2 cents a gallon about 3 days ago. Now we are at $2.81 for regular unleaded and $3.01 for premium unleaded. I have a feeling this time it won't drop like it did last time. I think we are stuck at this price or even more for the rest of the summer.

Does anyone know if the gas reserves that were promised to be released have been released ??? [?] I would think if they have that our price would have come down some.

Now for the next question and answer.



Are there any problems with ethanol?


Oh, yes. Ethanol can't travel in pipelines along with gasoline, because it picks up excess water and impurities. As a result, ethanol needs to be transported by trucks, trains, or barges, which is more expensive and complicated than sending it down a pipeline. As refiners switched to ethanol this spring, the change in transport needs has likely contributed to the rise in gas prices. Some experts argue that the U. S. doesn't have adequate infrastructure for wide ethanol use.

Also, ethanol contains less energy than gas. That means drivers have to make more frequent trips to the pump.

[Modelcar]

...There doesn't seem to be any easy answers for our high price of fuel Jim.....I've read articles that it requires almost as much energy to create ethanol as can be benefited from it. Understand vehicles using it produce less mpg too.....
Our N L gasoline reg. price {last evening}, was still at 3.09.....and Diesel at some places was the same amount. They are getting us conditioned when we {if ever}, find prices at say...2.75, will make us ru***o it believing they have a bargin for us.

[zugmann]

And a lot of thsoe articles use old data from the 1970s....

Every new plant built today is more efficient. And on the plus side, the source is easily renewable. (can't say that with oil)

Subsidize a farmer or subsidize a Saudi.

[Anonymous]

Here is today's question and answer. This deals with what modelcar was talking about yesterday. [^]



Doesn't producing ethanol on a large scale use a great deal of energy?


Yes. Some ethanol skeptics have even argued that the process involved in growing grain and then transforming it into ethanol requires more energy from fossil fuels than ethanol generates. In other words, they say the whole movement is a farce.

There's no absolute consensus in the scientific community, but that argument is losing strength. Michael Wang, a scientist at the Energy Dept.-funded Argonne National Laboratory for Transportation Research, says "The energy used for each unit of ethanol produced has been reduced by about half [since 1980]." Now, Wang says, the delivery of 1 million Briti***hermal units (BTUs) of ethanol uses 0.74 million BTUs of fossil fuels. (That does not include the solar energy -- the sun shining -- used in growing corn.) By contrast, he finds that the delivery of 1 million BTUs of gasoline requires 1.23 million BTU of fossil fuels.

Producing ethanol could get more efficient soon as new technologies help farmers get more corn per acre of land and allow ethanol producers to get more of the fuel from the same amount of corn. The companies developing new corn technologies include chemical giant Dupont and Monsanto, which sells genetically modified seeds as well as chemicals for protecting crops.

[Anonymous]

The current news is reporting that oil is topping $76 a barrel.  I expect we will see a rise in the price of gas by tomorrow night at midnight.  How much?  My guess is anywhere between 1 to 3 cents a gallon.  Currently in my local area our prices range from $2.81 for regular unleaded to $3.04 for premium unleaded. 

And now for the next installment in the guestions and answers about Ethanol.

 

So where can I find ethanol?

There's a good chance you're using it already. It's mixed into gas in many regions of the country including the corn-belt Midwest, and states like California and New York which had already banned MTBE. The regions making the transition this spring are the Northeast and parts of Texas.

Cars in the U.S. can normally drive on E10, a mixture of 10% ethanol and 90% gasoline, that is sometimes called gasohol. It's how Americans usually take their ethanol. Relatively few cars available here are "flex-fuel," meaning that they can run on much higher concentrations of ethanol. The fuel E85, which is 85% ethanol, is sold at some gas stations concentrated in the Midwest.

 

 

[chicagorails]

things are heating up again in the mideast, and north korea and iran and lebanon and isriel are not getting along so this spells higher oil prices on the market. go solar.

[spbed]

Well last year if gas was $2.40 per gallon & now it is $3.00 that is a difference of $0.60 per gallon which mean for every 10 gallons you buy it cost only $6.00 more then it did last year. If you have say a car that gets you 20 miles per gallon then you can go 200 miles before filling up again. I would think most rail fanners do there rail fanning near there home so I would say for a big $6.00 bucks more then last year they can still railfan. Even if you do 1,000 miles your additional cost would be only $50.00 more vs last year. 2,000 miles would be $100.00 more then last year.based on my equation 

[chicagorails]

well these higher oil prices spell one thing for rrs and thats more buisness
 if oil reaches 100 dollars a barrell, will the rrs be able to handle a 25% or more increase in truck trailer and domestic container traffic??   whats the limit the average double tracks mainline rrs can handle in 24 hours?  100? 125? 150? 175? 200? ....................time to tripple track!!!

[Anonymous]

Naa. Higher gas prices mean that the public will drive much less. And won't spend as much as they use to. I for one thing I have already cut back on my Railfanning by 90%. Allan.

[Anonymous]

Go back to the original Railfanning and High Gas Price thread which was started over 2 years ago and check out the prices listed in it.  Don't just consider what gas prices were last year, but take into account what they were 2 years ago.  Right now, people are having to make hard choices when considering gas prices and other things which they need. 

I hope people view this thread as a way to teach about the current alternatives which are available now.  We must do more than we are currently doing to lower our dependence upon oil.  As more and more people look to Hybird vehicles their cost will come down and be more affordable.  I will definately consider one in another year or two when I look to replace my current 97 Ford Ranger.

And now for today question and answer about Ethanol.

 

Is ethanol cheaper than gas?

Surprise, surprise, it isn't. The move this spring by more regions to use ethanol means that demand has spiked, driving up prices. On Monday, the New York harbor price was around $3 per gallon compared with about $2.28 for gasoline (before being mixed with ethanol). In other words, for now ethanol is helping to increase prices at the pump, not to push them down.

So ethanol production and distribution are also controlled by market forces, right? Only to a certain degree. In addition to heavily subsidizing the ethanol produced domestically, the U.S. government levies a 54 cent per gallon tariff on imports from other countries, such as Brazil, a lower-cost producer. This, of course, discourages the U.S. from importing cheaper ethanol.

 

 

[Modelcar]

Yes, Jim and the gasoline price side of it is increasing too....Just last evening crude reached 78 plus dollars a bbl and already today {this morning}, here in Muncie it went to 3.00 a gal for N L Regular.

So I hate to imagine just where it really is headed.  Now especially with the new unrest and almost complete breakout of new fighting in that area {mid east}, once again....It looks to me at least for a while like we're on the way up in price....maybe close to 4 bucks a gal.  We don't know how far ranging this mid east fighting might extend once again.  So crude up....stocks down....That's not too good for incumbents in an election year.  Not good for anyone.

Quentin.

PS....Anyone know if M. Hemphill is still in Iraq....?

[chad thomas]

Quentin,

I don't know if Mark is still in Iraq, but I did notice all his posts disapeared again.

[Modelcar]

.....I noted too we don't see any more of his posts.

Quentin

[Modelcar]

....Another glitz.....I just had to write the post above twice as the first time I tried to send it I got...."SERVICE UNAVAILABLE''....and then lost it of course and had to re do it....

Quentin

[james saunders]

Friday morning fuel was $A1.369 a LITRE, and that afternoon it was $1.225 a LITRE, explain that. and as I believe that is about $6.50USD. maybe more?

[Modelcar]

.....James:  I've not said hello on here to you yet....We're in central Indiana, USA and enjoy hearing the news from down under.  So our greetings from Muncie.

Quentin

[CNW534]

I have a Ford Explorer Sport Trac with a 4.0 litre V-6.  It takes exactly one 15-gallon tank to get to Rochelle and another to get back home.

I thought I'd try a tank of E85.  It was 20% cheaper than regular unleaded.  I had to stop in Janesville to fill up.  I got 25% less MPG with the E85.  It ended up costing me MORE for cheaper fuel.

Mark

[sarahd]

LOOKING AT EVERYONES RESPONSE I HAVE TO ADMIT I'VE GOT IT PRETTY GOOD;MY JOB TAKES ME DOWN OLD ROUTE 66 EVERYDAY,MY COMPANY PAYS THE GAS ON THE VEHICLE I DRIVE AND I GET TO WATCH ALL THE TRAINS GOING BY ON THE BNSF MAINLINE. I DRIVE A TRANSIT BUS OUT TO SILVER LAKES WHICH IS FIFTEEN MILES OUT OF VICTORVILLE,CA HALFWAY TO BARSTOW. MANY TIMES I HAVE EXTRA TIME SO I CAN SIT BY THE MAINLINE AND WAIT FOR THE TRAINS. ITS REALLY COOL,SINCE I AM NOT TOO BUSY AND IN ORO GRANDE I ALMOST ALWAYS GET CAUGHT AT THE CROSSING WAITING FOR A TRAIN.THEN THOSE BNSF TRAINS ALWAYS ALOT OF THEM,THANKS TO MY JOB I CAN RAILFAN AND CRUISE WITH THE TRAINS EVERYDAY. GAS AT 3.31 A GALLON;TOO MUCH.

[james saunders]

.....James:  I've not said hello on here to you yet....We're in central Indiana, USA and enjoy hearing the news from down under.  So our greetings from Muncie.

Quentin

 

Thanks for the greetings i look forward to conversing more

Regards,