Railfanning With High Gas Prices -- SMART START--What it is and what it does.

[Anonymous]

Hello All.

Once again I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread.  I would also like to thank you all for not using it as a complaint thread (as the other copycat high price gas thread has been) and for not injecting politics (as the other thread has also done) into the discussion.  Thank you all so very much for helping to keep this thread on topic and for your comments on alternative methods of energy.

The railroads have experimented off and on for many years seeking other methods of fuel other than diesel.  We have seen a variety of experiments tried by both BN (before the BNSF merger) and UP.  So far nothing has given much hope other than the current Green Goats.  I don't think the Green Groats are all that the railroads have hoped they would be either.

As always your comments (not complaints) on this subject are encouraged and welcome.  

 

 

 

 

[eolafan]

Just filled up my tank, which was almost completely dry and paid $3.15 per gallon and the fill up cost me (well, actually my company expense report, heee, heee) $48.48....AAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!  Thank God for company cars!

[Anonymous]

In my first post on this thread I was saying I was considering trading in my Frontier crewcab for a Scion or a PT cruiser...well I did it got a Scion xB...got tired of feeding the pickup truck.

 

Its as big inside as the Frontier, gets 35mpg, drives like a sports car, is quieter, and so is a really fun car to drive. So now maybe I can start doing more driving trips with my camera...

 

You got an xB? I'm jealous. I've wanted one for a year or two. I might get one later on, when I really need it. What color is it? Any extras on it? Contact me off-list if you want.


Matt

[Anonymous]

I work part time in the Auction House and see those trucks sell like hotcakes.

SUV sales are steady. The nicer ones sell.

We are getting Hybrids into the lot and frankly Im being somewhat converted to some of them. I prefer high performance vehicles with big power; gas cost be damned. But these Hybrids are slowly coming on to the scene and are getting pretty durn good.

Other vehicles like the 300C with the massive V8 and big power will gut itself and run on 4 instead of 8 on the freeway when it senses a chance to save a little gas. I see this in some trucks as well.

I tried hard to stay out of the thread but wanted to state that we as a Nation are going to have to divorce ourselves from Gasoline and Desiel for on road use. Now is the time to do it because it will take us decades to adapt and I dont think we have unlimited oil in the earth.

Where I am there are alot of people with big trucks and large cars. They hardly slowed down during the 3.00 gas last year and show no signs of conserving or curtailing the speed or daily use. I think when we get to 4.50 gas and beyond we will start to feel it as a State and perhaps Nation as a whole.

[Anonymous]

Once again, thanks for all your posts.  Please keep them coming.

Our gas prices again took a hefty increase but I can't right now remember how much.  Premium unleaded, I think, is now $3.10 or $3.12, with regular unleaded approaching $2.90.  Our area is normally one of the cheaper areas also, so it is very possibly that even regular unleaded is $3. a gallon somewhere around here (especially near the interstate off and on ramps).

Now as promised, here is a little info on what railroads are doing, AND have been doing for years to cut back on the use of diesel fuel.

Smart Start is the name of one system that will monitor many factors and shut down an ideling diesel engine.  Some of the things it monitors are the battery, air brake pressure, and outside air temp.  The outside air temp must be above a certain degree or the system will not shut down the unit, this prevents the unit from freezing in cold weather.  Another important item it monitors is the air brake pressure.  If the unit is shut down and the air brake pressure falls below a set mininum then the system will start the engine so the compressor can recharge the air and bring it back up.  (It is not hard to find a gladhand with a leaking gasket thus loosing a small amount of air which eventually will cause the system to loose air and need recharging.)   Smart Start will also monitor the battery and if the battery drops too low then the system will start the engine to recharge the battery.

All of the new widecabs have a system which will do this.  The name may not be Smart Start but most of the systems by any name will monitor these major items and shut down or restart the engine when needed.  Many of the older engines, when they receive an overhaul, get equipped with a Smart Start (or another brand) system.  Thus even 30 or 40 year old engines now also have the same capability.  This feature does save the railroads a lot of money on diesel fuel.  On engines which do not have the feature, the railroads would like the employees to shut down motors which will not be used in a reasonable amount of time. 

 

[chicagorails]

ethonol is good, a temporary solution to a permanet problem, feeding internal combustion poluting engines.
  what happens when a big drought occurs in the corn belt? no ethnol,back to oil.
  the big companies like adm, will controll prices like exon does now.
  will you trade a hamburger for a gallon of ethnol?  cows  vs  cars,compete for corn.
  
   and the cars keep on polluting,eating away ozone, melting the north,south ice caps.


answer is clear,cleam.    hydrogen vehicles, solar, battery you charge at home or plug in at mc donalds,or on road charges off hood,trunk,solar cells.  plug in at walmart.  lowes.   while you are shopping your car is charging.  while you eat,car charging.

how safe is a 100 unit train of ethonol? if one car crashes they all go, chain heaction? a whole town whiped out,ouch!!

[Anonymous]

Thanks Greg.  Your post is just what we need.  It shows you did something to try and help.  Every bit helps.

 

 

[Anonymous]

I've been toying with writing editorials to the paper on this same subject for some time now. But for now I think this forum will do.

I think there's way too many people out there that forget the very fundamentals of economics when it comes to fuel. Supply vs Demand. If you use more, the price will go up. If you use less, the price will go down. I specifically remember hearing a bit on the radio not too long ago. A guy called in and basically stuck up for the big SUV's because "he could afford it". He said that his salary was over 6 figures a year and that he had no problem filling up his Escalade. What killed me was the comment he made basically stating that "See what a higher education can afford you to do?" That struck a nerve in me because this moron was only painting a self portrait of his stupidity. If that higher education had taught him anything it'd be that just because he has the money to afford to be able to drive a gas-guzzler, if he used less fuel, prices would drop and he could spend that money on other, more desirable things. Not only that, other people would have money to be able to buy the goods/services that his company offers and he'd ultimitely be even richer, right? (I don't know what he does for a living, but as an assumption...)

Now, back to the topic of the thread, railfanning. I drive a '99 Ranger that is flex-fuel capable and unlike many people I bet, I actually use that feature. Starting last summer when the first E85 gas station opened up here in town I started using it in my truck. At that time E85 was $.30 cheaper than regular so the comparison in price/mileage was close. I continued to use it until about December when I couldn't get my truck to start one day. I believe it was because the ethonal froze, but I'm not sure. I don't know the freezing point compared to gasoline, but thats my assumption. After the truck sat in the sun for a day, I finally got it to start and I went back to gasoline for the rest of the winter. Once the spring weather hit I decided to go back to E85 for awhile. Prices had gone up since last year and I was now paying the same for ethenol as I would gasoline. But money wasn't my point. I figure that if I use the fuel, Ethenol companies would see the demand for the ethenol and eventually produce it cheaper until it was far more financially reasonable to use it instead of gasoline.

I have however stopped using ethonal because it has had some bad side effects on my truck. More often than not I get a bad sputtering and a real lack of acceleration. I believe that is what fouled up my spark plugs so bad last year that it would hardly start. But I still believe the technology is there and it's a great thing to invest in.

As for railfanning. Well, I certainly don't go on as many trips as I used to although thats because of a lack of time more than anything. But when I am tooling around town looking for trains, I usually try to pick one place and sit there. I know people that constantly move around checking out lighting and locations for each train, coming back to the same locations many times. All that does is burn gas. Just find a good spot and stay there. Maybe have a plan to end up at a certain place. I just go along from one spot to the next down the line until I'm there, rather than hopscotching all over the place. And chasing trains is never a good idea when you're trying to cut back on fuel. Lots of quick starts/stops, exessive speeding to get ahead of the 60mph train. We all know there's been those times where we've looked like the officers on Cops, weaving in and out of traffic, flying across fields and small creeks  and driving 110mph trying to chase down a train. I am going to Illionois next week with a friend to explore the BNSF Chilli sub for a couple days. But instead of taking my truck which would allow us to cross-country if needed and get into other places a car can't, we're taking his Accord, which gets close to 30mpg I believe, rather than my truck which is closer to 20-23 on the highway, 18 when railfanning. It's simple things like that that can cut down on railfanning costs and also help the economy at the same time.

-Greg Lavoie
Webmaster
www.fwarailfan.net

[vsmith]

Jim one reason I traded the truck is was specificly this reason, Gas hitting $4 or higher before years end. At 35mpg at least I'll be in better shape, I currently CAN afford the truck I had, even at $50 a tank, but I have a nasty habit of paying attention to whats going on, and the notion that I had better get rid of the truck while it still had a high bluebook resale was a big motivating factor. If gas hits $4, which I'm sure it will, suddenly that $50 is closer to $70, and if your driving a big SUV or Pickup you could be looking at anywhere from $80 to $100 a tank. If it goes to $5? well thats going to be a real killer for most people. there was a story out here about people selling belongings at the pawn shop to get gas money, thats getting scary! Of course the story didnt point out just what they were driving. I can guess though, all you have to do is watch the used car dealer infomercials here, almost everything their pushing is the big SUVs, and they've been selling them for dirt cheap! a 2001 Tahoe for only $8K?

 

What gets me is that even at $3.30 a gallon people are still clinging like grim death to their giant SUVs. I predict next summer gas will get to $4 and stay there, Detroit will collapse into a black hole of bankruptcy, Ford and Diamler/Chrysler might survive by quickly importing high milage models from Euorpe, but GM will try to survive by paying people to buy their now obsolete giant SUVs and monster pickup trucks. I see a HUGE decade of disaster for GM leading to either bankruptcy and the end of Americas largest manufactuerer led to demise by its own hubris, and inability to adapt. -or- we'll suddenly see all these high milage and "new" technology vehicles (like a 300mile range EV1) that they've been sitting on for decades suddenly hit the market and save them from the brink.

 

Time will tell.

[Anonymous]

NBC 15 in Madison recently did a test of straight gas vs. E10 in a stock Ford F250, the results were quite surprising in that the truck used less E10 than straight gasoline.  The testing body did point out that this could vary from vehicle to vehicle.

I certainly don't have all the answers, I am not sure I have even one of them.  However, the point of my railfanning and high gas prices threads have been to encourage discussion and seek to encourage use and developement of alternative methods of energy NOT just to complain about the high prices of gas.  Two years ago when I introduced the first high price gas thread several people had to jump in and start other high price gas threads.  Last year the same thing happened, just as now it is happening again.  I am not sure what purpose having multiple threads on the same issue accomplishes, other than robbing post and comments from the original thread.

High gas prices are here to stay.  That is what the oil companies wanted, and that is what they are getting.  Back in 2004 I posted about the $3 a gallon mark that was coming, and it certainly did.  In the same post I also pointed out that the next target the oil companies were headed for was $5 a gallon.  I don't think we will see $5 a gallon this year.  However, I certainly think we might see $4 a gallon before the summer driving season is over.  It might be short lived, but I think we might see it.  Any bad weather in the Gulf will certainly help bring about the $4 a gallon mark just as Kitrina did for the $3 a gallon price. 

Next summer, Katy bar the door.  Who knows at this point. 

Now my question to you forum members is this.  What are you doing to help converse gas/oil?  What are you doing to help encourage alternative methods of energy? 

In the next few days I will rehash some of the things the railroads are doing to conserve fuel.  My railfanning and high gas price threads  are and  were more than just complaints, they are/were means of educating the forum member on these topics.  We can all certainly learn together.  

Keep checking in, and please post if you can add something useful to the current topics.

 

 

[rvos1979]

NBC 15 in Madison recently did a test of straight gas vs. E10 in a stock Ford F250, the results were quite surprising in that the truck used less E10 than straight gasoline.  The testing body did point out that this could vary from vehicle to vehicle.

[Modelcar]

Not sure from all that I've read on Ethanol that it's reduced milage in a given vehicle and price comparison is giving us much of an advantage by using it as far as the price goes....It of course would allow us to use a supply of fuel that we create right here at home.  That is an advantage.

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for the comments to the thread. 

My dad has said for years that there was a carburetor developed many years ago that would get 50 mph, but the auto makers bought the patent and surpressed it.  Considering they can get at least 35 now why not 50?

Here is the next and last question and answer on Ethanol.

 

Why not eliminate the tariffs?

Well, the idea behind the tariffs is to foster domestic production of ethanol. But amid the ongoing furor over high gas prices the idea of repealing the levy has gained momentum in Washington. Though it would probably annoy ethanol producers like agricultural giant Archer Daniels Midland, removing the tariffs could have some benefits. It would help ease price pressures and would likely encourage Brazil to boost its ethanol production. However, it's probably not a short-term solution.

Brazil is undergoing an ethanol revolution far more drastic than that in the U.S. Flex-fuel cars which can run solely on ethanol are widely available and the ethanol supply is short enough that the government recently reduced the mandatory ethanol content in gasoline from 25% to 20%.

[vsmith]

In my first post on this thread I was saying I was considering trading in my Frontier crewcab for a Scion or a PT cruiser...well I did it got a Scion xB...got tired of feeding the pickup truck.

 

Its as big inside as the Frontier, gets 35mpg, drives like a sports car, is quieter, and so is a really fun car to drive. So now maybe I can start doing more driving trips with my camera...

 

PS Talking about cars and milage...

 

I recommend a movie that will show you how promising technology can be absolutly crushed by the status quo.... "Who Killed The Electric Car" is a fascinating documentry looking at the EV1 how it was built by a research wing of GM and what caused it to be not only removed from the road, but crushed and shreaded to remove all trace of it by an industry suddenly very frightened by the new technology that could have in a few years posed a serious contender to the gas engine. I wasn't a fan of electrics before, I've driven a few of them and yes the limited range was serious drawback, but the long term potential was definetly there. After seeing this, I was surprised, but not shocked, at the myriad of forces that doomed these cars...watch it and you'll understand why Japan still has the American market firmly in their grip and why GM may go the way of the Studebaker in a couple years...

 

If you cant make it to the theater, keep an eye out for it at the Blockbuster in the next couple months.

[Modelcar]

...It's almost impossible to speculate what crude prices will be down the road....Look at the political mess we have in the mid east now...Will it be stopped, will it escalulate into all out war....Iraq.....Iran....So many variables out there now.  No way of knowing.  Right now, it sure doesn't seem good for a good normal cycle going forward.  We sure hope this fighting mess can be quickly stopped before it ruins the world economy.  Of course all the personal disruptions, loss of life, etc....Terrible.

[Anonymous]

I JUST HEARD ON CNBC THAT THE PRICE OF CRUDE COULD GO AS HIGH AS $200.00 DOLLARS A BARREL WITH IN THE NEXT 3 TO 5 YEARS WHICH COULD PUT GAS PRICES UP WELL OVER $10.00 TO $15.00 A GALLON. ALLAN.

[n012944]

Go back to the original Railfanning and High Gas Price thread which was started over 2 years ago and check out the prices listed in it.  Don't just consider what gas prices were last year, but take into account what they were 2 years ago.  Right now, people are having to make hard choices when considering gas prices and other things which they need.   

 

Saw something on the news last week that said Americans are paying 355 million dollars more a DAY for gas than they were 3 years ago.

 

 

Bert

[zinker]

I haven't had time yet to read this entire thread, but I do have a resource that may be of interest. This is;

<http://permaculture.com> - "alcohol can be a gas".

Their FAQ is worth reading.

http://permaculture.com/alcohol/faqs.shtml

I heard an interview with David Bloome from permaculture.com on a radio talk show a few weeks ago and he made a lot of sense to me.

It should be noted that this is a very politically charged issue. The very first post on this thread which bemoaned the injection of politics into the discussion was itself pretty political. It would be impossible to discuss this intelligently without getting into the politics of energy policy. I could only hope that the discussion stays reasoned and intelligent - regardless of the viewpoints raised.

[james saunders]

.....James:  I've not said hello on here to you yet....We're in central Indiana, USA and enjoy hearing the news from down under.  So our greetings from Muncie.

Quentin

 

Thanks for the greetings i look forward to conversing more

Regards,

[sarahd]

LOOKING AT EVERYONES RESPONSE I HAVE TO ADMIT I'VE GOT IT PRETTY GOOD;MY JOB TAKES ME DOWN OLD ROUTE 66 EVERYDAY,MY COMPANY PAYS THE GAS ON THE VEHICLE I DRIVE AND I GET TO WATCH ALL THE TRAINS GOING BY ON THE BNSF MAINLINE. I DRIVE A TRANSIT BUS OUT TO SILVER LAKES WHICH IS FIFTEEN MILES OUT OF VICTORVILLE,CA HALFWAY TO BARSTOW. MANY TIMES I HAVE EXTRA TIME SO I CAN SIT BY THE MAINLINE AND WAIT FOR THE TRAINS. ITS REALLY COOL,SINCE I AM NOT TOO BUSY AND IN ORO GRANDE I ALMOST ALWAYS GET CAUGHT AT THE CROSSING WAITING FOR A TRAIN.THEN THOSE BNSF TRAINS ALWAYS ALOT OF THEM,THANKS TO MY JOB I CAN RAILFAN AND CRUISE WITH THE TRAINS EVERYDAY. GAS AT 3.31 A GALLON;TOO MUCH.

[CNW534]

I have a Ford Explorer Sport Trac with a 4.0 litre V-6.  It takes exactly one 15-gallon tank to get to Rochelle and another to get back home.

I thought I'd try a tank of E85.  It was 20% cheaper than regular unleaded.  I had to stop in Janesville to fill up.  I got 25% less MPG with the E85.  It ended up costing me MORE for cheaper fuel.

Mark

[Modelcar]

.....James:  I've not said hello on here to you yet....We're in central Indiana, USA and enjoy hearing the news from down under.  So our greetings from Muncie.

Quentin

[james saunders]

Friday morning fuel was $A1.369 a LITRE, and that afternoon it was $1.225 a LITRE, explain that. and as I believe that is about $6.50USD. maybe more?

[Modelcar]

....Another glitz.....I just had to write the post above twice as the first time I tried to send it I got...."SERVICE UNAVAILABLE''....and then lost it of course and had to re do it....

Quentin

[Modelcar]

.....I noted too we don't see any more of his posts.

Quentin

[chad thomas]

Quentin,

I don't know if Mark is still in Iraq, but I did notice all his posts disapeared again.

[Modelcar]

Yes, Jim and the gasoline price side of it is increasing too....Just last evening crude reached 78 plus dollars a bbl and already today {this morning}, here in Muncie it went to 3.00 a gal for N L Regular.

So I hate to imagine just where it really is headed.  Now especially with the new unrest and almost complete breakout of new fighting in that area {mid east}, once again....It looks to me at least for a while like we're on the way up in price....maybe close to 4 bucks a gal.  We don't know how far ranging this mid east fighting might extend once again.  So crude up....stocks down....That's not too good for incumbents in an election year.  Not good for anyone.

Quentin.

PS....Anyone know if M. Hemphill is still in Iraq....?

[Anonymous]

Go back to the original Railfanning and High Gas Price thread which was started over 2 years ago and check out the prices listed in it.  Don't just consider what gas prices were last year, but take into account what they were 2 years ago.  Right now, people are having to make hard choices when considering gas prices and other things which they need. 

I hope people view this thread as a way to teach about the current alternatives which are available now.  We must do more than we are currently doing to lower our dependence upon oil.  As more and more people look to Hybird vehicles their cost will come down and be more affordable.  I will definately consider one in another year or two when I look to replace my current 97 Ford Ranger.

And now for today question and answer about Ethanol.

 

Is ethanol cheaper than gas?

Surprise, surprise, it isn't. The move this spring by more regions to use ethanol means that demand has spiked, driving up prices. On Monday, the New York harbor price was around $3 per gallon compared with about $2.28 for gasoline (before being mixed with ethanol). In other words, for now ethanol is helping to increase prices at the pump, not to push them down.

So ethanol production and distribution are also controlled by market forces, right? Only to a certain degree. In addition to heavily subsidizing the ethanol produced domestically, the U.S. government levies a 54 cent per gallon tariff on imports from other countries, such as Brazil, a lower-cost producer. This, of course, discourages the U.S. from importing cheaper ethanol.

 

 

[Anonymous]

Naa. Higher gas prices mean that the public will drive much less. And won't spend as much as they use to. I for one thing I have already cut back on my Railfanning by 90%. Allan.