What happen to Milwaukee Road?

[zgardner18]

Guys,

While I was going to school in Bozeman, Montana, came across the old Milwaukee Railroad lines that had been discontinued and the tracks had been pulled. My question is: were they part of the BN deal or what? What happened to Milwaukee Road?

[chad thomas]

I don't know about exact dates. They abandoned the whole pacific coast line around 79'. Some segments remain and are operated by shortlines or BNSF / UP like the St. Maries River RR in Idaho.

[Anonymous]

Parts of it got sucked up (in a roundabout fashion) by one of the Canadian roads too, didn't it?

[chad thomas]

Yes, SOO line (Canadian Pacific's American subsidiary) bought the eastern part of the Milwakee Road in 85'.

[zgardner18]

So, did they were losing money bigtime and pulled out, huh? Then if they pulled up there track, then they didn't have anything to do with BN then? And I guess that goes the same for MRL too?

[Anonymous]

There was a ginormous heated, but very informative discussion about this a while back. Unfornately the thread was either locked and/or removed.

[chad thomas]

Milwakee Road has been discussed here before. You might want to do a search. There was a 16 page discussion recently. I think the Pacific Coast Extention abandonment was a bad move. They should have abandoned there Wisconsin lines and focused on transcon traffic. The lack of feeder lines and a route that bypassed a lot of population centers hurt them in the early years. But today those factors would have helped them in the intermodal era. I think it's demise was due to bad management decisions. I'm sure others on here can answer this better then I can.

The MRL is basicly the old NP main through Montana. After the BN merger the MRL was formed to run the ex NP line. It was basicly a union busting move. MRL only runs a few of there own trains, the rest is all BN (now BNSF) overhead traffic.

[chad thomas]

I think farmer is right. I can't find that thread either.

[zgardner18]

Oh, well I just joined up not too long ago, or I would have read that and not asked the question. I don't want to reinvent the wheel here. Sorry guys, just trying to pick your minds to gain something for myself.

Thanks for the incite, though

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas


The MRL is basicly the old NP main through Montana. After the BN merger the MRL was formed to run the ex NP line. It was basicly a union busting move. MRL only runs a few of there own trains, the rest is all BN (now BNSF) overhead traffic.

Ya, I found that out when I lived up there. Someone once told me that BN regrets giving MRL that line and BNSF would love nothing more to have it back.

[chad thomas]

The Milwakee Road was an interesting railroad and a worthy subject. It was gone (PCE anyway) before I ever got up that way. The thought of electrics hauling tonnage in the mountains always intriged me. I have followed the Milw right of way across Eastern Washington-Idaho-Montana and everywhere they went it seemed they had the least desireable route. It was kind of a joke between me and my dad that everytime we see a old right of way half way up a mountain that "It must be the Milwakee Road".

[Anonymous]

To be honest, it wasn't until a couple years ago that I figured out the Milwaukee Road even made it to the Pacific Ocean. I found a book my dad bought which focuses on the last 10-15 years of operation and covers the whole railroad but devotes a big portion to the PCE.

Its ok, laugh and snicker at me for my ignorance. [:P]

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

I have followed the Milw right of way across Eastern Washington-Idaho-Montana and everywhere they went it seemed they had the least desireable route. It was kind of a joke between me and my dad that everytime we see a old right of way half way up a mountain that "It must be the Milwakee Road".

Ya, I couldn't agree with you more. I think that is was Milwaukee Road that had tracks out of Butte towards Bozeman, along the I-90 that look to go strait up the mountain: A mountain that no train should go up. The tracks were just sitting there: sure would make for a great rail excursion like Durango-Silverton Railroad.

[zgardner18]

Actually, I'm not sure if those tracks were Milwaukee's or NPs, still they were something else.

[zgardner18]

I just found a website that says that they were first NP then they were Milwaukee Road's. So they were both.

http://www.milwest.org/dlzphotos.htm

[chad thomas]

Interesting pictures. Any idea when they were taken? That tunnel looks too small for a train.

[nanaimo73]

Most of the Milwaukie Road's track is still in use. BNSF and IC&E each have over 1100 miles of it. CN (200 miles), CP (600 miles) and Wisconsin and Southern (500 miles) and about 20 other railroads use CMSP&P track as well.

The Milwaukee Road east from Butte used Pipestone Pass and the rails are gone. The NP used Homestake and the rails are still in place and the line is railbanked.

Milwaukee Road thread-
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22066

The other one-
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22188

Milwaukee remains in Montana-
http://webhome.idirect.com/~helmutw/milwrd/xmont/montmain/montmain.html

Coast Division-
http://www.wwvrailway.com/milwauke.htm

This is a 16 page booklet of CMSP&P history. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102049
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102051
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102052
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102053
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102054
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102056
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102057
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102058
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102059
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102060
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102061
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102062
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102063
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102064
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102065
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102066
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102067
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102068
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102050
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=102048


http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44086

[zgardner18]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73


The Milwaukee Road east from Butte used Pipestone Pass and the rails are gone. The NP used Homestake and the rails are still in place and the line is railbanked.

Did Milwaukee Road then use Homestake Pass because that website shows a Milwaukee train on those tracks? What does "railbanked" mean?

Chad, I took those pictures about this time last year.

[chad thomas]

Interesting that the rails were not pulled years ago. Was this segment operated by another railroad after Milw pulled out?

[nanaimo73]

The Milwaukee would have used Homestake when their own line was blocked with derailments.
BNSF still owns the line over the pass and is keeping it in case they want to reopen it, like they did with Stampede Pass, although this is highly unlikely. Railbanking is keeping an embargoed (closed) line in case you might want to use it later.
MRL uses the east side of the Pass to a ballast pit at Spire Rock, and BNSF has the west side to Butte. BNSF owns about 5 miles of the Milwaukee Roads from Butte east to Newcomb.

[zgardner18]

So why would BNSF keep it just in case. I don't see any 100 car train being on that grade. Those tracks go strait up. Does BNSF even go into Butte? Doesn't MRL?

[MichaelSol]

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?page=-1&TOPIC_ID=43988&REPLY_ID=487690#487690

Also links to past discussions about the Milwaukee Road.

Michael Sol

[MP173]

Conversations on the topics of the Milwaukee Road and/or Montana are the most passionate and most interesting on this forum. The history of the Milwaukee is a very colorful (literally and figuratively) one. I cannot begin to analyze what went wrong.

Trust me, there is enough already referenced to keep you busy thru the weekend, if not more.

Lots of theories out there, the thought of a single line from Louisville, Ky to the Pacific Coast is intriguing.

ed

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zgardner18

Does BNSF even go into Butte?

Homestake was used by Amtrak's North Coast Hiawatha until Oct 7, 1979. BN stopped using it during 1983. BN sold the line from Butte west to Garrison to the Montana Western, but then BNSF bought it back about 3 years ago.

QUOTE: Doesn't MRL?

MRL has never reached Butte.

[zgardner18]

Butte is a very interesting place for history of Montana. It reminds me of the east coast railroad towns.

I'm sure that I saw MRL down there, maybe I was mistaken.

[nanaimo73]

Did you see these pictures-
http://spcascades.railfan.net/NP.html

[zgardner18]

Ya, I took a look at that site and that was when I noticed that the pass was NPs but then I saw this site and saw the Milwaukee Road train on those tracks and thought different.
http://www.milwest.org/dlzphotos.htm

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: SD40-2 #207 leads a westbound reroute over former NP track on Homestake Pass, next to I-90 on September 12, 1976.

This same reroute train is descending the high bridge east of Butte MT on the former NP line over Homestake Pass on September 12, 1976. This pass is a little north of the Milwaukee's own Pipestone Pass.

The caption says "former NP" because it was BN at that time. They are not saying it was Milwaukee Road's line.

[zgardner18]

So then that Milwaukee Road lash-up was lost then, right? "A pitcher is worth a thousand words."


You're telling me that they used it only when detoured from their main line? I'm just trying to understand what's going on here. None the less, it's still a spectacular line of tracks to me. I love all the rock formations throughout that pass.

[MichaelSol]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zgardner18

So then that Milwaukee Road lash-up was lost then, right? "A pitcher is worth a thousand words."


You're telling me that they used it only when detoured from their main line? I'm just trying to understand what's going on here. None the less, it's still a spectacular line of tracks to me. I love all the rock formations throughout that pass.

It wasn't lost, it was what it was called, a "detour."

NP and Milwaukee routinely detoured over each other's tracks when the other was out of service for some reason, floods, earthquakes, landslides, derailments.

These two roads paralleled each other at various places west of Logan and east of St. Regis, and had connecting tracks along the way. Milwaukee probably had a slide in the Jefferson Canyon and was routed over the NP line into Butte where it went back to Milwaukee rails, and this would normally occur until they got the track open. NP sometimes got out of Butte over Milwaukee rails and Pipestone Pass for the same reasons, a slide on the very track you are looking at.

Michael Sol