Bird's eye view of Rockville Bridge near Harrisburg Pa....

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...That Connelsville area....I don't know how they ever got any railroad through there. Several years ago we stopped there on the way in from Indiana just to see the ex. depot down town that had the elevated railroad next to it...Entering the depot at about the 2nd or third floor level. The elevated track was long gone. The building is now a special glass business. The building is preserved in great shape.
Interesting comparaison the profiles of Pennsy and S P....Pennsy had a much easier way to go across there...Though both did have to climb some mountains. The Pennsy excaped some of them by going around some and then the opening west of Johnstown really helped. Interesting stuff. S P would have been a shoter route to Pittsburgh.

Look close at the map if possible and you should see a line drawn on the area from the north. That is the alignment that was going to be choosen from the Donegal area along Jacobs Creek via Laurelville ( follow route 982 south from route 31) to a tunnel to be built just to the west of the Kentucky Fried Chicken store located on route 119. Immediatly after coming out of the tunnel a bridge would land them on the north of Connelsville or New Haven area to reach Leisenring and head to Wheeling from that point.

[Modelcar]

...That Connelsville area....I don't know how they ever got any railroad through there. Several years ago we stopped there on the way in from Indiana just to see the ex. depot down town that had the elevated railroad next to it...Entering the depot at about the 2nd or third floor level. The elevated track was long gone. The building is now a special glass business. The building is preserved in great shape.
Interesting comparaison the profiles of Pennsy and S P....Pennsy had a much easier way to go across there...Though both did have to climb some mountains. The Pennsy excaped some of them by going around some and then the opening west of Johnstown really helped. Interesting stuff. S P would have been a shoter route to Pittsburgh.

[southpennrailroad]

Hey I see they are selling seven gallons of gas for $1.22. What a bargain! I'll bet people complained then too. I paid today for the same seven gallons which only went to fill my tank at a little less, then a half tank, $21.00.

[southpennrailroad]

The South Pennsylvania Railroad in the Connellsville area.

[southpennrailroad]

comparison chart of the South Penn and the Pennsylvania Railroads. Thought you would enjoy this.

[southpennrailroad]

This rare culvert is actually a pile of huge boulders placed in this shallow valley allowing the South Penn to crosss without having to worry about a washout. The water would just passively pass through the boulders. I will soon be replacing this and other photos I took of this site next fall. Location: East side of Tuscarora Mtn. Tunnel to the north of the turnpike.

[caldreamer]

Another good spot to take pictures of the Rockville bridge is on route 15 north after you cross I81 past Enola going towards Marysville. Just before you get to the bridge there is a spot on the right where you can pull over. Trees in area, but you can get good shots of the bridge.

[Modelcar]

Too bad your father never got to experience that new corridor...Have been on that some years ago.
Squirel Hill.....That rings a bell....Had relatives {school teachers}, that lived up there years ago before they passed away....and I'm saying years ago...in the 50's.
My Saturday night Nascar race is about to start....Back later.

[southpennrailroad]

My closest feeling of how most people were about the turnpike being built and opened, was when I remember the I-79 corrider was being built. I recall having to travel route 19 and seeing the new road being built and couldn't wait for it to be completed. My father wa a truck driver and I recall in 1964 when we lived i Bloomfield and he couldn't wait for the East Street Valley to be built. He died the same year it opened and never was aware of his surroundings and never got to be on it. I feel that is what might happen on the Squirel Hil ypass that the turnpike is building from the south northward along route 51 cotrrider.

[Modelcar]

...In the 1890's...we had no production motorized vehicles hence any roads in existence would have been mere horse and buggy paths. Very crude. I can picture a survey team pushing up a long wooded valley and find a dead end....and of course that ment plan "B"....
As for the turnpike I remember my first exposure to it as a finished product....it was something out of the future...so different. Separated traffic, no stop lights, modern different type of lighting at interchanges and tunnel entrances, low gradients and something that really stuck out as different....The reflectors along the sides of the road surface. a feature that survives on it yet today and of course many other places now.

[southpennrailroad]

In my search for the South Penn I have to travel sections of old roads, though now paved, that were used to get into and out of the areas the railroad worked on. I don't even like the idea of what the turnpike surveyors had to use as roads just to survey what was supose to be theirs. I mean before the turnpike was built the surveyors were pretty much like having to do the same surveys as the railroad had to cut through. What I have done as a single researcher for the past ten years is simple and nothing compared to what they had to work through as well as travel through. Looking for the best possible route to build a railroad through is something I would not like to have undertook. I have the turnpike to get into and out of as I went exploring the right of way. They had to cut through woods and climb hills to even seewhatI see to this day as I travel the same roads they did. Even toady I can see the strain on my 4 cyl. chevy as I climb the same roads as they did. We just don't know what the real value the turnpike has given us. .

[Modelcar]

...Russ, you mention tools that would have been so helpful to the designers in your above thoughts....What I so much ponder is their means of transportation up and over these many mountain ridges and to somehow carry all the mtl. and supplies with them needed to do the job, plus to their human needs, etc...Yes, I realize there was a bit of transportation developed elseware but for sure not in these locations. It just amazes me how they found the feasable routes and got it all marked and down on paper...Even finding the property owners, etc....All in a world with practically no communication {where they were}, and so on....So my hats off to the professionals who really did get the route surveyed and available to the constructors to complete. Sadly...that would never happen with the exception of the compromise Turnpike built much later....which really became a very important piece of highway that set trends for others to follow. So in a sense the S P engineers really did have success but of course they never knew it.

[southpennrailroad]

Discovering the South Penn's right of way in areas where no work will be done was not that difficult. The surveys were done, it was just a matter of using the right tools to figure out where the route was to be built 120 years later. Here is a SPRR map embeded onto an aerial photo showing property lines that have not changed since well before the railroads anticipated coming. I'll bet the railroad wished they had these tools.

[southpennrailroad]

Another set of maps (SPRR placed atop the early type of topographic maps) showing the presence of the SouthPenn in an unlikely area in Confluence, Pa.

[southpennrailroad]

From the South Penn records, is this hand drawn diagram of a typical wooden bridge road crossing to be built over their tracks. This site would have been built in Fulton County over Sheepskin Hollow near Fort Littleton, Pa. Now if you really wanted too, you can now build this bridge to scale.

[southpennrailroad]

I thought everyone would like this view. Took it in my past life. Knew it would come in handy

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

10-4, we'll look forward to it....

Check Your Mail!

[Modelcar]

10-4, we'll look forward to it....

[southpennrailroad]

I am sending you via e-mail the coffe pot and Gulf station taken this past march.

[Modelcar]

Thanks Russ, for the additional "light" on the above house and barn and survey locations....It did get me turned around a bit....No problem.

[Modelcar]

...But one more thing I overlook in doing that comparison....The old Pennsylvania RR route through Johnstown and points west had the luxury of passing through that massive water gap west of Johnstown, hence not needing to climb and decend Laurel Hill to make it's way west to Pittsburgh.

[Modelcar]

I still marvel at the route surveyed for the South Penn across Somerset County passing through at a rather high {for the area}, elevation. Elevation there at the top of Gieger hill {crossing Rt. 281}, where one can see the Court House dome in Somerset is about 2100 to 2200 ft. And most of the way across the plateau from Allegheny to Laurel Hill....I'm simply comparing it to the old Pennsylvania route following waterways much of the way between the mountains, etc....It seems to me it would have been a very costly route to finish and maybe even to maintain....Deep cuts to keep the rolling rocks out and off the tracks and possible trouble with washing out some of the fill work, etc....And much of it rather difficult to get to.

[southpennrailroad]

Yep. I only use the rest areas for relief. If I have to eat, I either go to ED"s Steak House or a pizza shop at the intersection of 56 and 3. By the way, the Fort Bedford would not be there today had the South Penn been built as the South Penn was to pass exactly along that hillside where the fort is located now. That also was the division line between the Bedford Div and Soerset Div. Each Div was to be 30 miles long.

[Modelcar]

...In my post above I was referring to the house and barn in ref. to the posts above, not the new posts you list above showing the Bedford Narrows. Yes, I've even fished east of the Rt. 30 bridge there too...Perhaps a few miles east of there.

Bedford in all aspects is a historic place. In later years when I've had a chance to be down through there and with 30 bypassing the town now it seems very strange to me. Took a couple of pic's of the old Art Deco Shell station a couple of years ago.

Understand they have even moved the the old coffee pot restaurant out to the Fair Grounds now.

And back to the Turnpike route through that area....and up and over and through the mountains....Quite an accomplishment and well done. Just wi***he service stations and restaurants were as good as the originals...Stopped in Midway back 5 - 6 years ago and I thought it was a sad sight with the fast food arrangement to what it was original and including the decor....

[southpennrailroad]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

...I suppose none of that makes any sense to me Russ, but no matter.....I see what looks like the remains of the S P ROW passing northwest of the house and barn....and your statement of it should have passed the house and barn "in the green field", I can't make the connection.
I must assume the house and barn indicated on the map are not connected to the surveyed route south of it .....Each must belong on a different page....?? If so, then since they would not be located in relation with each other and you are saying in reality the Turnpike passes farther northwest of the house....I could understand. But don't understand how they would be passing through the "green field". Clear as mud Russ...Ha.....

OK here is how it goes. The page was not wide enough to place the survey route onto the left side of the bottom section of the survey. They should be connected. Anyhow, the upper section is to be ignored. The area you believe is the South Penn in the color photo, is actually the turnpike alignment. The turnpike bought the South Penn right of way and therefore should be south of the house and barn because that is where the right of way is drawn by the railroad on their map. On the map, the road on the leftside of the house moving north is the road seen in the color photo. Its quit the opposite, the house and barn are a definate part of the bottom survey and that is the main focal point. Thats what makes this searching for the South Penn interesting is that what appears is not really so. Look at the map and see for yourself that the South Penn is runing in front of or south of the house and barn as the turnpike has not utilized the railroad right of way . The house is "L" shaped as seen on the map. Paper was a premium back then and they drew the extension to the top of the map not the bottom.

After re-reading your post, you are correct in thatthe turnpike didn't use the railroad right of way here on te Mowery property. They built to the north of the house and barn. While traveling on the turnpike east bound lanes today, this would make a great railfanning photo with a train traveling to the south of the barn and house .

[Modelcar]

...I suppose none of that makes any sense to me Russ, but no matter.....I see what looks like the remains of the S P ROW passing northwest of the house and barn....and your statement of it should have passed the house and barn "in the green field", I can't make the connection.
I must assume the house and barn indicated on the map are not connected to the surveyed route south of it .....Each must belong on a different page....?? If so, then since they would not be located in relation with each other and you are saying in reality the Turnpike passes farther northwest of the house....I could understand. But don't understand how they would be passing through the "green field". Clear as mud Russ...Ha.....

[southpennrailroad]

These two items or attachments are closely related. This was the choosen route the South Penn was going to build upon.

[southpennrailroad]

Bedford Narrows right of way!

This South Penn map shows the existing B&B line with several other surveys which were done by the South Penn in the area just east of Bedford (the town) inwhat is called the Narrows. Notice to the right of the map I have two arrows covering the right and left side of the one survey route. That paticular crossig is what today is the exact alignment of the famous historic route 30 /Lincoln Highway bridge. SOOO the next time you find yourself crossing this historic bridge, think about the South Penn surveys done here. By the way the South Penn actually chose the one crossing from the north side of the river after crossing in front of the old route 30 toll bridge. These piers are still standing today. Picture on the way. I placedin dark arrows where the turnpike is today.

[southpennrailroad]

Simply put, the South Penn and therfore the turnpike should have been built in front of both the barn and house in the green field. The upper section of right of way on the map is a continuation and should be attached to the left end of the map at the bottom. The turnpike is built in the area behind the house and barn. The road traveling away from whereI am standing in the photograph is the road seen on the map just to the left of the buildings.

[Modelcar]

....I am amazed to the extent which papers and drawings and maps, etc....seem to have been preserved in district files.....and even available to see.
On the photo with the house and barn and the S P ROW behind it.....clearly visible.....and looking at the map, you should be just about standing on the other ROW for whatever it was...{Turnpike..?}.....You mentioned "where the turnpike should have been built"......That I don't understand. You might comment a bit farther on that. "Should have been built".....?? Didn't know any sites for the Turnpike were rejected.