Bird's eye view of Rockville Bridge near Harrisburg Pa....

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:08 PM

southpennrailroad

Don't know about the families unless they were families of the ambassadors.  Remember that they were saying one thing (talking deals) while starting the attack at the same time. As President I would have arrested them right there on the spot. Diplomatic immunity for straight out liars. But lets get off that as that is politics. Anyway they were housed there.

 

Now just east of Breezewood, over the Rays Hill Mountain and west of the Sideling Hill Mountain, German u boat POW's were housed in a former CCC camp now part of the Bucannon State Forest. Some of the old foundations are still seen just to the west and north of the old west portal of the Sideling Hill Tunnel.

 

No.....I'm speaking of Japanese families living in the USA at the time...and not Ambassador's families.  They were interned for the duration of the war....

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Monday, March 21, 2011 8:20 PM

One of the reasons I went camping up at Somerset was because I needed to check on the riding mower. It started alright but one of my South Pennsylvania Railroad storage boxes fell during the winter and the material inside got destroyed. A lot of the copies of the South Penn deeds got soaked and some of the books ruined and some of the single maps got wet. Might be able to save them and get them re made.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Monday, March 21, 2011 7:44 PM

http://data.cei.psu.edu/pennpilot/era1940/fulton_1939/fulton_1939_photos_jpg_200/fulton_040539_aqb_41_49.jpg

 

This link should show you B4 the old turnpike was built a curve that is the railroad of the South Penn which is still tere today. The old turnpike is not in this aerial as you can see by the date as pre WWII. Look for the railroad tunnel and as the railroad curves south keep going straight out to the west and the buildings of the then closed CCC camp is seen clearly. They were closed in and guard towers were build and that became the POW camp.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Monday, March 21, 2011 7:33 PM

Don't know about the families unless they were families of the ambassadors.  Remember that they were saying one thing (talking deals) while starting the attack at the same time. As President I would have arrested them right there on the spot. Diplomatic immunity for straight out liars. But lets get off that as that is politics. Anyway they were housed there.

 

Now just east of Breezewood, over the Rays Hill Mountain and west of the Sideling Hill Mountain, German u boat POW's were housed in a former CCC camp now part of the Bucannon State Forest. Some of the old foundations are still seen just to the west and north of the old west portal of the Sideling Hill Tunnel.

Tracking the William Henry Vanderbilt South Pennsylvania Railroad right of way along the Historic Pennsylvania Turnpike.

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Posted by Modelcar on Monday, March 21, 2011 7:21 PM

.....Russ....During some point in time of WWII....I seem to remember Bedford Springs Resort was also used to house Japanese American families that were taken from their homes until the war ended....??

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Monday, March 21, 2011 3:50 PM

http://southpennrailroad.com/images/BedfordSprings_stitch.jpg

I put a link to my web page where I have it so you can see it better then photo bucket as they don't show up that well. I wanted to let you see the panoramic shot of the hotel.

This photo is of the historic Bedford Springs hotel once planned for total destruction but about five years ago it was remodeled and is now an Omni Hotel chain and the cheapest room is $230.00 a night. I did get a tour of the place and several presidents did stay here from Polk to Reagan. The significance is that the South Penn was to service this site built in the late 1700's where as the Pennsylvania thinking that no other rail service was ever to enter Bedford figured that the passengers could walk or have buggies transfer them over from their line some five miles to the north.The South Penn would have been built directly behind where I am taking this shot as it would be at the base of the springs which would have been behind me.

 

During WWII it was used as a naval training center for teaching radio communications and just after WWII it was housing Japanese ambassadors and it says because it was close to Washington, DC but in the mountains of Pennsylvania and isolated from to high of civilizations of our capital.

 

When I was there it was quit filled. I guess someone has money.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, March 18, 2011 3:48 PM

I trust those maps more then the topos of today. The details had to be right on. I even saw a letter that says they fired a map maker for fudging the details.

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Posted by Modelcar on Friday, March 18, 2011 9:54 AM

Russ.........I'm surprised at the detail of the topo maps of 1881- 1885 era.....I'm wondering how they surveyed the lay of the land so detailed with their not very extensive equipment and transportation ability at that time.

Seems it would have taken for ever to "measure" and record such detail.  As well as "plot" their ROW thru the most efficient route of much difficult territory..

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, March 18, 2011 4:06 AM

 

How many cross ties were needed?

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, March 18, 2011 4:01 AM

Whats it take to hold the whole main line of the South Pennsylvania Railroad together from Harrisburg to Pittsburgh?

 

Read for yourself.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, March 18, 2011 3:45 AM

 

I know these blue colored maps were preliminary and allowed for change as what was actually done (work superceeds drawn maps) on the ground shows changes from the maps such as this map as South Penn work is actually found crossing the river twice and not shown on this map. I know the South Penn crosses Clear Creek and some of the rade is along the inside curve of the Rays Town Branch of the Juniata River east of Everett.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Friday, March 18, 2011 3:35 AM

 

Moving over to Everett. This map shows the South Penn south along the river.

 

The second floor rear office was rented by the South Penn in Everett.

 

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:21 PM

I just got an -mail from a guy who I sent my DVD to and I like his response. Q I need you to send you house address again as I dumped that e-mail. Here is his response.

 

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:54 PM

 

Here is another well defined South Penn map of the way things use to be in 1881-1885 of the narrows. The well dark/defined railroad is the one your talking about while my proposed South Penn grade is plotted out as a lighter line with 100 ft ticks marked along its line. The one line coming from the top center is the alignment of the Pennsy from Altoona along the valley of route 220 to Holidaysburg/Altoona.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:26 PM

 

The South Penn map of the old Lincoln Highway b4 it was named that of course.

 

The second bridge up river from the present route 30 crossing. This bridge was destryed by a disgruntled farmer who was taking a a bypass road that can be seen in aerial photos along the hillside on the south of the present route 30 alignment. He was charged with avoiding paying tolls and found guilty so he crossed the bridge that was a covered bridge and lit the wagon on fire 1/2 across the bridge.

 

 

Above: As it looks today

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:20 PM

Want to elaborate????

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Thursday, March 17, 2011 7:01 PM

Want to elaborate????

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Posted by Mr. Railman on Thursday, March 17, 2011 6:43 PM

IT'S BEUTIFUL

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 17, 2011 11:14 AM

Russ....In these last pictures in the Bedford area, I've studied them to get myself located.  Believe I've done so.

Now....The {sepia colored}, pic that includes the railroad still in place, I had to do some thinking about {what} railroad that was.

Having done quite a bit of fishing in the Manns Choice area as well as some east of the Bedford area....Just east of that bridge construction back about 60 years ago....I know a railroad did pass thru that area and suspect the one in your pic....is the one I remember and actually did see some action on it.

Believe that would be the railroad that came up the valley to Manns Choice from Hyndman and on around and crossing route 30  east of the old Inn...Jean Bonnet, {check google}, and then on to Bedford.

If in fact, that is the railroad I think it is {again, don't know it's name}, we remember of seeing a steam engine pulled train on it once or twice....Could it have been an "arm" of the B&O since I believe it connected to the "Sandpatch" line over in the Hyndman area.

Believe I understand you to be saying....when they put another bridge there on 30, east of Bedford, making a total of two bridges side by side....They stripped down the original "old" bridge to it's original concrete arches, and used them for the underpining of a new bridge built on top of them.  I never saw any of that construction in process....Knew nothing of "how" they ended up with 2 bridges for route 30 to pass over the river.

Of course, in the later colored photo...shows the abandoned ROW of the railroad mentioned {by me}, in the beginnings of this note.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:31 PM

Then!

 

This bridge is part of the new route 30 B4 the turnpike was built as the old highway is faintly seen parellel to the Pennsylvania Turnpike seen in the next two photos. The alignment of the old Lincoln Highway was to be the South Penn as the old Lincoln highway was to be pushed back where you see the Turnpike today.

Now!

 

 

 

From atop the hill at a higher spot.

 

Below:

When the old bridge was under reconstruction. They used the arches of the old bridge.

 

 

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 7:23 PM

 

Old Route 30 in the Bedford Narrows east of Bedford. Lincoln Highway was across the road and the South Penn had plans of pushing that alignment more against the hill where the house sits and the Pennsylvania Turnpike is where it was to be moved as in the color photo shows the Lincoln Highway was never moved. It is now gone for good as the new highway is just to he photographers left outside the picture. The bridge piers seen in the distance was also part of that old route 30/Lincoln Highway.

 

A newer view taken by me a few years back.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 8:20 PM

 

Above, The letter that goes along with the map.

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 8:17 PM

We know that Wheeling was the original end of the South Penn and in this next documents prove this.

 

Here is a topographic map of the same area as the next map below it.

 

 

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Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, February 17, 2011 9:37 PM

Ok Russ........I've looked at it on here....Just couldn't do it from the email.  I've probably been close to that in the past...Quite a panoramic view.  Must check my map to pin point.  Think I know the spot, but time can play tricks on one's mind.

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Thursday, February 17, 2011 8:23 PM

Here is a almost hidden one off Brotherton Road taken from the Turnpike in Somerset County.

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Posted by caldreamer on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 8:18 PM

I have never been to the overlook, but if you follow route 15 north towards Marysville, just before the bridge there is a pull off.  You can get some great pictures of the entire bridge at about a 45 degree angle.  I live only about 45 minutes south of Enola and will try to get there again this spring and shoot some pictures with my digital camera and post them.. 

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 5:13 PM

William Shunk Chief Engineer of the South Pennsylvania Railroad. 1883.

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Posted by Modelcar on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 4:25 PM

....The more I see images of detailed areas and counting where I've seen the route over many years, I'm finding it pretty easy to believe one of the construction engineers comments: Paraphrasing....The route that was layed out, would have been an awesome {good}, route across the mountains....Perhaps better than any that were finished.

Quentin

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Posted by southpennrailroad on Wednesday, February 16, 2011 1:35 PM

I know the area but between fifty years ago and now the Pennsylvania Turnpike has made that fill into a flat field leading up to a very deep cut where the road you speak of crosses the railroad grade at the top of the mountain. That cut is still there.Think of a dam as being the fill and the water behind it was filled in as dirt so what you actually have is a flat open field behind the fill. But if your correct in that a culvert existed then I need to return to see if it still is there allowing water to peculate under the fill that the turnpike dumped when expanding the turnpike in the 1980's

 

 

The name of that road is called Wambaugh Hollow Road. and it is today paved and does go down hill to New Baltimore.

 

The edge of the filed in area to the right was the edge of the fills right edge. Yes it was a fill as I did see it on the aerials before the turnpike dumped more turnpike dirt in this field to the left of the fill.

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