Bird's eye view of Rockville Bridge near Harrisburg Pa....

[southpennrailroad]

Her is a old topographic map with sections of the South Penn survey maps placed over top to show comparisons of the route the South Penn was to pass over. The comparison between the two are neat to look at. Then & now views.

[Modelcar]

...I believe Dave's was even a bit better.

[Murphy Siding]

I got my July issue of Trains Magazine friday. On page 37 is a near identical photo to the one in the very first post of this thread.[:)]

[southpennrailroad]

The top photo is a 1884 South Penn survey map. Focus to the left and lookfor the same road seen on the aerial photo just below the same map. You can see the turnpike is not on the South Penn planned alignment just west of Manns Choice between highway 31 and the turnpike.

[southpennrailroad]

Glad your back, I have many of these Western Union reciepts showing converstions between field operations and New York to Oliver Barnes. his one is hard to read but is stating that dinner that evening wasto be at Mortimers home. The map showswhere this dinner was held that night.

This (second photo) house was the Mortimers home as foundd on the Bedford Map. The map also showed an alternate alignment that had it been built would have tracks surrounding the two sides of the house.

[Modelcar]

....Enjoyed the new stuff Russ....I just passed by some of what you show above, yesterday....And I was looking {again}, for the stuff that I knew about once again....Just like a rail fan....

That must have been quite a survey of the potential freight and passenger business. Wonder how those surveys were done...{without many telephones}....Must have been time consuming

[southpennrailroad]

It might seem possible that Vanderbilt went blindly into building the South Penn. This is far from the truth as this next added photo shows a study was done into what would be hauled on the new line. This included passengers service. Also what amount of money they would make.



This is one of my favorite documents I have.

[southpennrailroad]

Ok, I've taken you on some really neat sights. Now is the time to take you where no man has gone before. The West Virginia/Pennsylvania State line. In no mans land. This map reveals the proposed last two tunnels of the abandoned and rejected alignment of the South Penn Railroad. This route was surveyed in full but a keen lawyer wrote to Oliver Barnes recommending a better route. This tossed aside map reveals the descent from what is just east of Prosperity, Pa to Wheeling WV. route. I've traveled this route and recommend you take extra fuel as well as something to eat and drink. To see this spot look south from I-70 west of Washington, Pa and follow the Pa. State Line south to spot Majorsville where this map ended.

[southpennrailroad]

When the Pennsylvania Turnpike slightly bypassed the sharp curve just east of Donegal, at mile post 92.0, I was finally able to explore what I was told as having a section of the South Penn down over the fence line of the turnpike. Here is what I found last year just over the fence line. Notice how the grade is curving to the left. The grade actually crosses beneath the turnpike and is once more found on the south side of the pike. On the other side of the turnpike from this point, the turnpike covered up one of the culverts and totally destroyed another and one which is a rubble culvert still is in the tree line.

[southpennrailroad]

A section of South Penn grade on private property north of the turnpike, off Horse track road in Somerset County west of the Allegheny Tunnel. Milepost 118.0. Notice how the farmer removed some of the grade but still leaving the stone box culvert.

[southpennrailroad]

I was just passing through the Somerset area (notice date on photo) on my way to the factory where my new Danzer Trailer was built in Hagerstown, Md. It was hard not to stop and lookat sights. But I pushed on. I will be fixing he trailer up into a camper and the outside will be decorated with South Penn sights and other relaited material. Photos will be listed onto my web page as I progress.

[Modelcar]

Russ....Great you can report of good family news...!
Was wondering how things were going for you....and glad the news is possitive.

Tomorrow..{Saturday}, we'll head for Somerset.

Interesting site you post above. Gap was sure a blessing to the surveyors. They probably opened a bottle of bubbly when they saw that...

[southpennrailroad]

Wife got out of the hospital and is doing well. Thanks for your prayers.

This next shot is the area just west of the Tuscarora Mtn. Tunnel and this road I am on (lockes road) is exactly where the South Penn was to cross this road from east (right) to west (left). The Perry County survey would enter the low cut seen waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the distance. That is called Concord Gap. Route 75 enters that gap as well. Route 75 is a turnpike exit road junction.

The farm on the left side of the road is found on the South Penn maps.

[Modelcar]

...Oh my.....Such sad news. So sorry to hear of this set back. For sure, will offer prayer from this end.....We pray they can give her a full recovery.

[southpennrailroad]

Sorry for not posting new info. Wife 47years young took a second stroke and is in ICU. Need sleep and some time to think. Need prayers!

[Modelcar]

....Sounds like the typical moving of the government wheels....Sure hope they will be successful to get a plan into action and find the resourses to accompli***he upgrades needed to make the "old" pike into a bike trail. Would be really neat and {necessary}, to get some light into those tunnels. It is really wild how mother nature reclaims her territory so quickly....a 4 lane highway melting away into oblivion....And how I marveled how "modern" the pike was when I first rode on it when it was about a week old....No wonder the S P is hid so easily in some places. That's 120 years ago.

[southpennrailroad]

The bike trail is still primitive and remains the same as it was when acquired in 2001. However the curators are trying to get funding for the improvements. The trail is a ride as you take your life into your own hands setting. In fact my Cd was instrumental in them getting funding for the trail. However they put the cart before the horse. In February I was looking in my CD that I have and which all the photos you see here were dug up from and decided to call SAC (Southern Allegheny Conservancy ) owners of the trail and upon them answering my call were great to have heard from me. I asked why and they said that the Cd was instrumental in them getting a $60,000.00 grant. They told me that they were in the process of being interviewd for the grant and were about to be turned down when the meeting teporarily adjourned so as to have the WJAC johnstown telivision crew leave the room. They were there to telivis the incident, It appears the meeting about wether the trail was a railroad grade was under question. While the room was being cleared a member of SAC decided to introduce my Cd into evidence. Once they reviewed it, it was decided the trail was indeed clasified as an old railroad corrider and should be given the money.

The problem now is that the amount was uped to the $90.000.00 amount but that the owners were supose to have done a study which was to have cost $20,000.00 of which they have no money to do and the grant may have to be returned. This study was needed before the grant was to issued and non of this grant money can be used for the study

Things that were wanted to be done was semi lighing the tunnels, and paving one set of ld turnpike lanes and a few other things. I will check on this tomorrow for you.

Note: I am not a member but a sort of honorary memeber, however I have access to drive this route while others are not allowed as it is a bike trail like all others. But because I am still researching things about the South Penn they allow me to have the access codes. I feel really privlliaged. I don't think that is spelled right. They were grateful for the 10 year study I have provided them and aways act like I am a member.

[Modelcar]

...Yea Dave....I don't know how current the web site you point to is and I have wondered how far along the "bike trail" may be now....Believe the intention was in later rendition to do 8.5 miles including the 2 tunnels. Anyone have an update for us...?

[dwil89]

Found this link that shows pics of the abandoned 15 mile section of the PA Turnpike in the Breezewood area, when a 15 mile long bypass was completed in 1968 to bypass 2 tunnels http://www.briantroutman.com/highways/abandonedpaturnpike/

[Modelcar]

...Visited and rode that line years ago...in the early 60's. Sat in the wicker chairs of their passenger car that I believe Grover Cleveland used....So the story was.
Never could understand why lines such as that one were constructed in narrow gauge. All the extra movements that caused {when meeting the Pennsylvania to off load their coal product...}, makes me wonder was it worth the savings.

[southpennrailroad]

Notice the black line of the Shade Gap algnment comes to a side line alongthe red South Pe alignment just outside the Tuscarora Mtn. Tunnel. Also Burnt Cabins is on this map to the left. The turnpike is not shown of course but wel inside this survey map.

[southpennrailroad]

The first three miles of a 14.5 mile journey suggested by the South Penn that the EBT Railroad should follow to reach the west portal of the Tuscarora Mtn. Tunnel. Beginning at the Rockville/Orbisonia Shade Gap line.

[Modelcar]

...Just now, using Terraserver.....I went to the area of the "pot holder" and got that whole area where I could see the total area of the "pot holder" alignment and also a good view of where the PW&S came down from the summit and joined with about half of the alignment of the "pot holder" and on down on that S P alignment to the entry of the Quemahoning Tunnel....Looks really gentle from the vantage point of elevation of the satelite camera but we know that area is anything but gentle. A great image.

[Modelcar]

...It's not as far from the Laurel Hill area {to Connellsville}, as I might have thought before I checked on a map. As I mentioned before, a few years ago we came in through Connellsville and then on up through that basic way to work our way to Somerset. That would have been rough territority to work a RR route through. For sure it is not "flat lands"....
I can, in general follow what you are saying of the topo map and PW&S, etc....

Like the panaramic pic between the two tunnels. You might comment just how you do the shots like that....Use a special camera or pan across the scene from a tripod....? It appears to be four exposures

My days of exploring such rugged territory are behind me but even if they were not....and with ample supply of snakes in that area....I still would not be a candidate to walk up to the top of that area.

Note the "turn around lane" that passes over top of the tunnel on the right side of the pic. and have noted it before on an aerial shot on one of the posts here....That would be a different vantage point to make a nice pic from. Meaning right on top of the tunnel looking at the other.

The "pot holder" part of alignment of the S P is not that hard to identify on the maps and is one place I have been able to pick out while passing by on the Turnpike. On one of the topo maps I have here the "dug out and fill" of the "pot holder" at the west end is really clearly visible. All interesting.

[southpennrailroad]

I took this panaramic view of the valley between the Blue Mountain and the Kittatinny Mountain tunnels.The view is looking north and the South Penn is the farthest tunnel from me. Yes Rich Ballish and I did walk to the top of the Blue Mountain to the transmission tower seen to the far right. It took us 1hour and .50 min. Resting about every 200 feet. It is legal to do this but you need to walk into this area from the south off highay 641and not from the turnpike where we did this from as we had permisssion to explore this area. Suggest you acquire a map for your way in. Snakes a plenty in this area. Mountains are steep. Even think the snakes would roll down trying to climb out east or west direction.

[southpennrailroad]

As to this previous map, also notice the red arrows showing a survey aligment headed south to bypass the Laurel Hill Tunel. It would be a line to head south to the Youghiogheny River and Connellsville as well. If this map is to small again ask for a E-mail view as photobucket compresses them to smal sometimes.

[southpennrailroad]

Ok, Lets stay on one subject. I am uploading a survey map by the South Penn and it shows the PW&S coming out of the top of the map and merging onto the South Penn jug handle to where it travels around from the north, traveling south eastwardly to merge onto the green arrows as them being the turnpike. Then entering the Quemahoning tunnel and continueng east to Somerset. Yes it is very detailed to see the SPRR breaking off and it heading northeast around Somerset on terraserver photos. You just have to zoom in to see it.

.

[Modelcar]

Russ, those are good shots of some of the area I had mentioned back a post or so...The S P comes across there right in the area I had figured it did but have had trouble spotting it. Can see why, especially trying to see it when leaves are on the trees, etc...which is when our trips happen by there. Refrain from making that trip in the snow season since we really don't have to. I know the scars from grading of the old route are so much easier to see then.

Just east beyond the Terraserver view is where I believe the S P route {heading east}, bends back around to the north and makes a long sweeping curve and then heads in a southern way an eventually swings back to the left and heads towards the Quemahoming Tunnel and so on down the grade towards Somerset but further down swings more to the northwest and out towards the 985 or is it 601 rt. crossing near Wal-mart, etc...

Is the noticeable route {of some kind}, on the Terraserver view, and just to the north of the Turnpike bypass.....happen to be the PW&S grade....or perhaps just a logging tram trail....But he curves seem so gentle and precise on it to just be a logging trail....?

I wonder though as I didn't think the PW&S was located that close to the Turnpike at that point....I remember it's association with it all down at Quemahoming Tunnel, etc....and then on into Somerset....Guess I better check my views on a topo. of that area of the PW&S to see if I can tell if that really might be it in the Terraserver view.

[southpennrailroad]

It would only be fair to show you a view of the sight while standing on top the grade looking east. Great day with plenty of sun and snow to highlight the grade directly in front of me. The ramp leading down to the Laurel Hill Tunnel is just to my right but hidden as a slag dump is blocking the view. An incomplete cut is directly behind me.

[southpennrailroad]

Study this photo well, as it shows the South Penn fill just barely behind the evergreen trees off to the right in the ravine along this section of the Pennsylvania Turnpike at the Somerset/Westmoreland County line. Perfect shot giving you the mile marker. No place to park and ask me how you can see this shot without impeeding other drivers. I'll show you how I get shots like this even while driving. $375.00 fine for parking illegally in places like this.