Hijacked train derails

[mackb4]

If people would have read the thread that someone had on here sometime ago about the train setting in a siding with the door wide open....man someone needs to go back to that thead and read all that.This is why I can't understand the railroads not investing in a few locks.On the NS we are told to always lock the inside latch and then lock the frontdoor with the switch lock provided,when leaving a engine tied down outside a yard,or outlying part of the yard. I know how much deadly gases,chemicals and other who knows what out there is on the rails.I run those types of trains all the time,and see cars in yards,on sidings,and just think all the time how open the rail yards are.Just like I said in my comment on that thread mentioned above.If terrorist can figure out how to fly a big plane into a building,what could they do with a train.DON'T EVER UNDER ESTIMATE PEOPLE,ESPCIALLY CRAZY PEOPLE FOLKS ! If the engine had a lock on it and it was left unlocked.Fire that crew.If someone in the ranks made the decession on the BNSF to save a few bucks and not put locks on their engines.Fire them !People these rail yards and sidings are full of stuff that terrorist dream of. To use an Earl Pitts phrase,"Wake up America ! "

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

What has bin laden got to do with someone (and we can guess who) that takes a train for a ride, goes 200 yards at 14 mph, and this would NOT be classified as a "hijacking" but someone will get a slight talking to for leaving the loco unattended. relax, just relax.

I have worked that job. Why would they get a talking to? Derails were up. Loco/locos were secured (depending on if it was the Lawrence/Tecumpseh coal power or the switcher power). The only thing that they could have done wrong is left the reverser on the unit. Unless they have newer GEs on that coal power, the MACs and old geep that is usually there must be left running as not to freeze up. The locos left unattended thing does not apply if they are secured against undesired movement and protected by a facing point switch lined and locked against main track movement or derail.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nssr9169

It is not at all ard to move a locomotive, even on our tourist line we ALWAYS REMOVE THE REVERSER BEFORE LEAVING A LOCOMOTIVE UN OCCUPIED, why can a little 23 mile museam operation remember somthing that I thought was a manditory safety procedure?

There is a difference between some dude on a tourist line that runs a silly 23 miles and a certified engineer and conductor. Do you know how your statement sounds to real rails? Think about it. Sheesh! Oh yeah, I have worked that job in Lawrence and what they did is SOP. The FRA should issue an emergency order to stop non qualified people from popping off and critisizing crews. Your signature "at the throttle of a sw blah blah blah." How silly! Most of us rails have spent more time in the crapper on the motor than you have on a loco total.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nssr9169

It is not at all ard to move a locomotive, even on our tourist line we ALWAYS REMOVE THE REVERSER BEFORE LEAVING A LOCOMOTIVE UN OCCUPIED, why can a little 23 mile museam operation remember somthing that I thought was a manditory safety procedure?

That is true. But, there are some things better left unsaid. This is a public forum in the fact that it is open for public viewing. So those of us who work for a railroad and know how to move a loco usually don't give such details to those who do not. It certainly is a good thing that you did not mention a few more details. SAFETY FIRST

[zardoz]

All this talk about padlocks! If someone is determined to "hijack" a locomotive, a mere padlock is not going to even slow them down. Sure, they will stop an opportunist who sees a locomotive and wants to go inside and maybe mess up things, or steal from the grips. And a clever engineer can do things to a locomotive that will prevent anyone other than another trained (pun intended) person from getting it going.

Which reminds me: thanks to all the non-rails that wanted to show off their "knowledge" by announcing to the public the basic safety measures most train crews use to secure their equipment. How would you feel if someone used the information you posted to cause a REAL problem? Maybe caused injuries or death?

Please think before you post. There are greater concerns to consider.

[ValleyX]

Those are those on here who say far too much and I suspect most of you haven't got as much seniority as my workcoat. Who are you trying to impress? We're all anonymous here, for the most part. Shhhhhhh.

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

QUOTE: Originally posted by nssr9169

It is not at all ard to move a locomotive, even on our tourist line we ALWAYS REMOVE THE REVERSER BEFORE LEAVING A LOCOMOTIVE UN OCCUPIED, why can a little 23 mile museam operation remember somthing that I thought was a manditory safety procedure?

There is a difference between some dude on a tourist line that runs a silly 23 miles and a certified engineer and conductor. Do you know how your statement sounds to real rails? Think about it. Sheesh! Oh yeah, I have worked that job in Lawrence and what they did is SOP. The FRA should issue an emergency order to stop non qualified people from popping off and critisizing crews. Your signature "at the throttle of a sw blah blah blah." How silly! Most of us rails have spent more time in the crapper on the motor than you have on a loco total.

Actually, me and Kale spend alot of time on loco's a year. Many hours.
Im not disagreeing with you, im just stating a fact.

[coborn35]

I hope I havent said anything revealing[*^_^*], but I beleive all ive said is know how to un-tie a train........I sure hope so.......If ive sadi anything else....well....it was a li eand you cant believe a word of it![D)][:-^][:-^]

[edblysard]

Geeze guys, give it a rest...
In case you didnt catch it, the safey devices in place worked...and as was stated, often, you have to leave it running...as long as a derail or lined/locked facing point switch was in place...well, they made it an incredible 25 feet before they got on the ground...most of the railroaders here already know there really isnt anywhere for them to go that they cant be followed...what do you think, they were going to run it into a chop shop and part it out?

Or maybe steer it into an office building?

The worse they can do is manage to get on the main and hit another train...and unless they knew what the other train was carrying in the way of hazmat, and where it was in the train....not a very effectiv terrorist weapon.

And even if they managed to get it close to a yard, the DS would run them into a siding or a stub long before they could get anywhere near a yard proper.

Ed

[AntonioFP45]

This may sound "a little far fetched" regarding locking cab doors, but in industrial complexes and if I'm not mistaken some marine vessels, doors are locked with a mechanism that requires a digital electronic code to unlock.

Maybe not now but perhaps in the future it may be practical for railroads. Potentially with locomotives traveling over different roads the dispatcher or road foreman would be made aware of "foreign power" coming onto his territory from the owner railroad's dispatchers. He could then transmit the door lock access codes by radio or computer to engineers or shop forces that must gain access to those cabs.

As stated, this won't keep "pros" out, but could thwart would be thrill seekers and joyriders.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by zardoz

All this talk about padlocks! If someone is determined to "hijack" a locomotive, a mere padlock is not going to even slow them down. Sure, they will stop an opportunist who sees a locomotive and wants to go inside and maybe mess up things, or steal from the grips. And a clever engineer can do things to a locomotive that will prevent anyone other than another trained (pun intended) person from getting it going.

Which reminds me: thanks to all the non-rails that wanted to show off their "knowledge" by announcing to the public the basic safety measures most train crews use to secure their equipment. How would you feel if someone used the information you posted to cause a REAL problem? Maybe caused injuries or death?

Please think before you post. There are greater concerns to consider.

I have a better idea, lets close down the Trains.com and other online railfan forums in the name of homeland security [:p]. Furthermore, if someone is determined enough to cut a padlock off of a locomotive cab door, then certainly none of the other safety measures are going to stop them either... it's only a matter of how long it takes them to figure it out.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

Those are those on here who say far too much and I suspect most of you haven't got as much seniority as my workcoat. Who are you trying to impress? We're all anonymous here, for the most part. Shhhhhhh.

Valley, you probably have work boots with more seniority than I have. Were you aiming that at me?

[rrandb]

The person who comitited this crime was not a terrorist or that knowledgeable as they were not aware of the derailer! Unless there plan was to put her on the ground in which case there plan worked perfectly. A terrorist who could move the train could defeat the derailer with little trouble. As a retired locksmith and safe technition most security devises are best at letting you know someone has or is invading your space. There is much truth in the old adage that locks keep out honest people. Each and everyone of us has a reponsibilty to our neigbors and community to always be vigilant in observing and reporting any suspious activity to the powers that be. It is only thru increased awarenes that maybe we can thwart the efforts of those that desire to do us harm. [2c]

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

This may sound "a little far fetched" regarding locking cab doors, but in industrial complexes and if I'm not mistaken some marine vessels, doors are locked with a mechanism that requires a digital electronic code to unlock.

Maybe not now but perhaps in the future it may be practical for railroads. Potentially with locomotives traveling over different roads the dispatcher or road foreman would be made aware of "foreign power" coming onto his territory from the owner railroad's dispatchers. He could then transmit the door lock access codes by radio or computer to engineers or shop forces that must gain access to those cabs.

As stated, this won't keep "pros" out, but could thwart would be thrill seekers and joyriders.

I agree with you here. Digital Electronic code devices seem to me to be a good way to secure a locomotive. The only problem the railroad would run into with this technology is that, the Electronic Code Device may provide just about the same amount of protection as a pad lock, if the device is either "broken" or shot out, when it's forceibly broken will it go into an automatic "shut down" ? Preventing anything from working in the locomotive? Or will this device only shut down the entry doors? Then if the violater wanted to that person could bust up one of the windows to get in. Or is the railroad going to invest in what I like to call "City Convenince Store Glass" which is extreamly bullet, and shatter proof. Something like that may work. But than again if someone really wants to hijack a locomotive, they are going to find any means possible. It will also most likely be a well thought out plan too. Unfortunitly, all locks can be bypassed somehow, it's only a matter of patience, physics, and time. If it can be built it can be distroyed. [:(]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drfizzix

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

QUOTE: Originally posted by nssr9169

It is not at all ard to move a locomotive, even on our tourist line we ALWAYS REMOVE THE REVERSER BEFORE LEAVING A LOCOMOTIVE UN OCCUPIED, why can a little 23 mile museam operation remember somthing that I thought was a manditory safety procedure?

There is a difference between some dude on a tourist line that runs a silly 23 miles and a certified engineer and conductor. Do you know how your statement sounds to real rails? Think about it. Sheesh! Oh yeah, I have worked that job in Lawrence and what they did is SOP. The FRA should issue an emergency order to stop non qualified people from popping off and critisizing crews. Your signature "at the throttle of a sw blah blah blah." How silly! Most of us rails have spent more time in the crapper on the motor than you have on a loco total.

First off, just because something is SOP, it does not mean that there is no room for improvement. If you don't believe that then you're an accident waiting to happen[soapbox].

Second, if you have indeed spent that much time in the locomotive crapper as you claim, then obviously you have not worked for the railroad that long. Most of them I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole[xx(].

Last, spelling words like "criticizing" incorrectly and unneccessarily going off on the unsuspecting non-railroader public is nothing but an embarrasment to our profession [B)].

I read your profile you dork. Gee whiz, I am a proud graduate of the Modoc Railroad academy class of April 2005. When did you hire out? Which road do you work for? I am an embarassment to our profession? Really! C'mon wise guy how many years do you have in? I am an accident waiting to happen? Wow, maybe I should trade in my 11+ years in the industry (not all in TY&E) and get schooled correctly at a pissant foamer school especially on the subject of safety. You could have went to a real school such as N.A.R.S. in Kansas at least. You are a wannabe. Book geek. If you have less than 5 years, it is not OUR profession, it is MY profession and your on the job training. You smell of foamer! Maybe if I sell my BNSF Safety plates, I too can go to MODOC and become a pro in only 6 short weeks and then I'll be as smart as you! Now go stand at the switch. I'll tell you which way to line it. Can you handle that?

[ValleyX]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValleyX

T

Valley, you probably have work boots with more seniority than I have. Were you aiming that at me?

Actually, I just got a new pair.[:D] Yes, drfizzix, I think this will be 451 posts over not quite five years. There are other things to do, you see.

[Anonymous]

I'll end this pissing contest with you now. You are right, You probably do more work on your shortline than I have ever done. Us class 1 guys could learn a thing or two from a shortline newbie. I myself would be embarassed to run my mouth like you do with only 8 mos of time on the RR, but, that's just me. I'm sure that my working in the yards of BNSF's biggest terminal on our system for several years doesn't compare to a days work performed by you and your MODOC groomed switching techniques. I'm sure that the my cert cards that I hold don't even come close to the years of RR experience that 6 very long and intensive weeks at MODOC along with a very rigorous whole 8 mos on the job have given you. I bow in utter disgrace for having a cushy and meaningless Class 1 job when there is so much more to be learned by working in an ultra intense environment like you do. Maybe someday we can get together and you can share all of your RRing experience with me. It probably will all go right over my head anyway.
Kudos to you, Scott. Kudos to you. BTW, with a BS in physics, why pre-tell are you working on the RR and not doing something in your field of study?
(Ed and all of you real shortline rails: this is not directed toward you)

[Anonymous]

It's not becuase you have an education. You have no time on the job. That's why. You are a F.N.G.

[Anonymous]

You popped off and was taken to task on it......that's all.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BNSFrailfan.

This is not a very good sign. A new Video tape from Bin laden today. Who knows.
Allan.

in the midst of the pissing match, i'm posting my rebuttal. i was just being a smartass about it while the fanatics go fanatical.

btw. reading the post about peoples' ages i was suprised by how old some of you actually are. some come off as mature, while others seem very immature.

i have 2 pairs of boxin gloves. class 1's and 3's aside last man standing wins.

[zardoz]

In my 20 years of railroading, I have seen quite a variety of employees. I have seen guys with 1 years' seniority be able to out-switch some old heads, and I've seen engineers with only a few years experience run trains better than some of the old farts. The variable factors seem to be ambition, dedication, and a willingness to try to be better at what you do each day.

[rrandb]

Good at last I found the grown men acting as children chat room. Where should I begin. It must be nice to never have been the FNG Oh yes ..............[D)]

[Ham549]

Hey none of you have any skills to match my RR experience I have both MSTS and Trainz and I have driven a trolley at the museum I volunteer at I have driven it to one end of our longest line to the other a full 1/5 mile. And I am certified to give the general public handcar rides so there. lol

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ham549

Hey none of you have any skills to match my RR experience I have both MSTS and Trainz and I have driven a trolley at the museum I volunteer at I have driven it to one end of our longest line to the other a full 1/5 mile. And I am certified to give the general public handcar rides so there. lol

Great answer!

When theres a fight, always try to end it with humour.

By the way, I am a 14 year old student who has had MSTS since it was new and found the cabs are extremely similar to the real ones, considering that during a cab ride 2 years ago when I said "the cab is just like Trainsim", the engineer stopped the CP GP38-2 (3096) I was in and told me to drive. I did not require any help at all and think anyone could figure out how to start a locomotive, especially when the throttle and brake handles are labled numerically. (usually a higher number means more power)

[Anonymous]

That has been a criticism levelled at Train Sim - in their defence, MS have apparently left out some pretty important details (there's a lot more to moving the real thing than MSTS shows you - I've read some driver's manuals for British DMUs and having driven one in MSTS won't enable you to start the real thing from cold and move it). The gearbox programming was particularly interesting - in MSTS you can change gear without closing the throttle, if you tried that on the real thing they'd be picking bits of transmission up half a mile away!

[route_rock]

Zard you have a valid point my man. And David once you get a few things thrown you can move sure ( just like trainsim) But like our Brit friend says there are a few steps always left out of something.
I would love to see a guy come and get our derails down at the service track. Seeings none but the ones guarding the pit want to work! Some old heads said in the old days you got paid for wyeing power. Well I wish it was the old days cause I would have had three turns on one set.All cause the *** derail wouldnt go down.

[Mookie]

Root Beer and Pretzels in concessions - trackside!

[LehighValleyman]

Why the hell are we talking about BIn Laden, what the hell, the guy's stupid enough to cra***wo planes into the world trade center's let alone, MOVE A TIED DOWN LOCOMOTIVE!!! but, may have benn a local person with some experience about jimmyin' control stands or locomotive controls, how knows!?
[8][banghead][alien][:)]










Only god does...

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Good at last I found the grown men acting as children chat room. Where should I begin. It must be nice to never have been the FNG Oh yes ..............[D)]

read drfizzix posts. I was a F.N.G but the difference was is that I knew that I was a newbie. This cat popped off and backed it up with silly stuff. It is funny how guys **** off and get offended when they are taken to task on it.

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

Good at last I found the grown men acting as children chat room. Where should I begin. It must be nice to never have been the FNG Oh yes ..............[D)]

read drfizzix posts. I was a F.N.G but the difference was is that I knew that I was a newbie. This cat popped off and backed it up with silly stuff. It is funny how guys **** off and get offended when they are taken to task on it.

Yes he did. Thank goodness we had you to make things right. Read your own post and see if you both do not sound just a little childish. [V]