Americans and Germans?

[Supermicha]

Thanks for the replies. I´m happy, that some of you have such a good opinion. But the thing what makes me very sad, is the following: Saddam is bad, no question, and he must go away, how, is not really important, the americans choosed the war to get him away. But, remember, 20 years ago, the USA supported Saddam in its fight against the Iran! And also Osama was supported by the USA for its fight against russia! I think there is something wrong, or not? And if the us win the war against saddam, will the iraq be free? Is a country free, if its controlled from another? I don´t think. Call me stupid, maybe i´m too young to understand it, but would you attack your neighbour, only why he has 10 weapons at home? I don´t think so. I think the USA should stop playing world police, at first, they should try to clear the problems in there own country. The USA is that country, with the most wars according to ther "short history", this is not correct i think. But its my oppinion, and we are free of speech.

Micha

[edblysard]

Hi Rick,
I didnt think I was peddeling anything, just using one of those constitutional rights I belive in, you know, the one thoses 10943 kids died defending? The right to express my opinion. In case you didnt notice, I stated I dissagree with our presence there, and a war we seemed to have declared. Dad and Uncle Ed where both WWII vets, both stressed that America's armed forces were a defenseive tool, not a political tool. Both objected to Vietnam, but Dad served.
Do you remember the news footage of Americans spitting on Vietnam vets?
My Dad knew that feeling very well.
I never said "support the war or keep quite". What I apparently said badly was they, our kids, are there, and if you cant offer them your support, dont offer them your scorn. They are, after all, our kids, and even if you dont agree with why they are there, you should reconize the fact that they performed in the manner we expect professional soliders to.
And the big diffrence between us now, and the German people then is quite clear. The only information the Germans got, untill very late in the war, was what the propaganda minister released. Quite a few Germans thought the were winning the war, right up untill the end.
Did they know what was being done to the Jews?
I am sure they did.
Did you know what was being done to blacks in the deep south, as late as ten years ago?
If you did, whats keeping you?
This is one of the first times the armed forces had reporters as part of their force, and this has been called the "living room war", due in part to the fact that we see, in real time, whats happening, and our troops know we, the people of America, are watching them.
And no, we are not the only ones who will be writing the history of this, they get CNN in Europe too!
And you really dont have to explain about the holocaust to the grandson of a german jew, I think I have a good idea of what went on then.
As for complacenct, I intend to be very non-complacent next election, and urge you to do so too, if thats what you feel will change things.
Of course, the right to excerise your vote, in one of the few countries on this planet where you can do so freely, was paid for already.
By almost 11000 kids.
I dont wonder where the "nuts" come from.
I just wonder where that many heroes came from.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[sooblue]

Hi Michael,
Freedom of speech is wonderful isn't it.
You and I live in countries that believe in that right, among others. That said, I will tell you what I think.
I don't believe that there is a problem between either the French or the Germans and we in the USA other than a difference of opinion.
The BEST friends that the USA has are it's former enemies. England(war of independence), France(French Indian wars), Germany & Japan (WWII).
WHY? Partly because we don't hold grudges, because we will help to rebuild, because we stand by our friends (brothers).
Will the French forget the part the USA played in their liberation? Will the Germans forget the Berlin airlift? Or the pressure exerted that brought down the Berlin wall and opened the Iron Curtain? Will the bosnian people forget their liberation? Will the Iraqis forget their liberation? I don't believe so.
The USA has always fought for freedom and the people of the world have always depended on us to fight for freedom.
Yes, the USA is arguably the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. But, Name one world power in history that used its power to LIBERATE another people. No, their power was used to plunder and enslave!
Are we a perfect power? NO. But we fight for freedom! Even in Vietnam we fought for freedom!
The USA doesn't plunder.
There have been times that we haven't stepped up to the plate and gone to bat for freedom, and then we've heard the world say we don't do enough.
Than when we do go to bat, like for Bosnia we hear the same lame complaints from the same people that, we are interfering. Tell that to those we have liberated.
To those who are able to embrace free speech and think that we are in Iraq for oil,
To those who can stand up and give the finger to George Bush without fear of death but think we are trying to colonize the Mid-east, YOU FOOLS
To those who can get up in the morning and do as they please ALL DAY LONG with out fear, with out looking over your shoulder and wondering if today will be the last sunshine you will see. To those who have forgotten how ONE man was placated in 1939 by saying if you sign a peace treaty with us we'll let you have Poland and Austria, to you I say, Your IGNORENT MIZERS. Freedom isn't cheap but there are some countries in this world willing to foot the bill so others can know it. That's what AMERICA is all about, FREEDOM.
Sooblue

[Anonymous]

I would like to say that saddam is getting what he has coming. I have a problem with a ruler that treats his citizens like he does, He is a dictator that has no problem with gassing and killing men,women,and children. The U.N. failed as well as other countries that contenued to supply his regime with military hardware to build his forces. Its funny, because the military hardware that saddams regime has recieved to build his forces better than what he had during desert storm came from Russia and France. Hey, thats the two countries that argued so hard to keep the war from happening. Thats because they didn't want anyone to know that they were violating the U.N. sanctions. I don't like war, But I support the troops that are there. Tony

[Anonymous]

For Michael,
I spent three wonderful years in Mannheim and made some great friends and look back at that as some of the best times of my life.
Not every country is going to accept America's lead in everything we do and we just have to live with it.
I do not feel badly about the Germans or the French for not backing us in this war, personally I really do not accept the reasons we are there. I think "dubya" wanted revenge for the attempt on his "daddy's life".
I am ex-military, my daughter was airborne and a veteran of Somallia, my son a vet of Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo and was on duty at the pentagon on 9/1 so I will support our boys and girls in uniform to the utmost.
However, this does not mean I will support clowns who have never heard a shot fired in anger who send them in harms way.
Pop

[Anonymous]

>>So if you cant support them with pride, then at least support them with a silent respect
Nice way to guilt peddel folks into surrendering their right to express opposed opinion, herr Ed........

I'm not trying to fault you specifically, because I've seen that type of thinking make the rounds a lot lately, perversely akin to the "your either with us or against us" fascist drivell coming off of 1600 Pennsylvania avenue. And *that* is just not what america stands for, I'm sorry......


I think back to all the compound monday morning quarterbacking following WWII, the scorn placed upon the German People, how they MUST have known about the attrocities of the Halocaust, how they SHOULD have done something about it How the German soldiers SHOULD have objected yo the immorality of the goings on and gladly taken a bullet to the head, instead of becoming complicit.

Well, if you know that what we are doing in Iraq is wrong, what's keeping ya? Because our president is making us all complicit, like it or not. And the fact that the victor will be the one writting the history books makes it no less immoral what is going on over there..

The real culprit here is quite common, not specific to ol "W" , but he's sitting there with his fingers in his ears chanting "I'm going into the books as a hero".

Then we wonder where the "nuts" like Lee Harvey Oswald come from.

[adrianspeeder]

Right on Ed. I will print 2 copies of that and tape one to my wall and give the other to my grandfather.

-Adrian

[Anonymous]

I am an american of German heritage, and find pride in the fact that when we march, people pay attention!

Often you hear these ponderous musings over "What happened to Rome?" as if it is some great mystery. Look at the languages of Europe: spannish, french, italian........all so similar (derived from latin) then you have German.

HA! what happened to Rome? Ask them about the Y1K disaster! The folks that would one day become the German people is "what happened to Rome".

The present situation? Did you see the list of the 34 countries that Bush cited as supporting our action? Not really the types of nation where anyone gives a darn what they have to say the rest of the time, so why get so worked up now?

Getting Saddam out of power is a worthwhile action, but america disgraces itself over the way we are going about it, breaking every rule we normally claim matters...

[Anonymous]

I for one support our troops and our Preident.Like it our not we have a job to do and a country to liberate just like the French in WW2 .iraq didn't live up to there agreement and never will . The people of iraq can't voice there opinion on what they feel and there women are treated like third rate citizens so maybe we would all welcome the British and American forces if we had to live like that.and if you think for a second that the the iraq government hasn't put money towards terrisom then you have been in a cave for the past 20 years and that effects every one in the world ,so we do it now or later after something bad happens again and causes more suffering and a bigger toll to pay.thats all I have to say and I hope that I didn't offend anyone I wish we just could all get along so we could concentrate on what really matters trains. thankyou

[edblysard]

Go to Normandy.
Stand in the middle of the U.S. Cemetery.
Turn in a circle.
10943 graves.
Most were kids, under 20.
They died for a idea, a concept that any people have the right to determine who leads them. That forcing your political and personal views on others is wrong.
If you cant feel the pain, the terror, and the courage and valor of these kids, and dont fall to you knees in thanks for all they have given the rest of the world, I would wonder if you are alive yourself.
I dont agree with President Bush's decision to invade another country, one who hasnt attacked the US directly, and I will make my feeling known next election.
That said, the fact is we are there, fighting a war, and a new group of kids are doing exactly what we trained them to do, dieing for a idea.
Its not like we can turn back.
So if you cant support them with pride, then at least support them with a silent respect.
Mica, in the 80s, your people got tired of the wall, and tore it down.
Good job.
You and your country are free, due in large part the the sacrifices of those 10943 kids buried at Normandy.
Yes, our opponents were German, but it wasnt the people of Germany, instead it was the goverment and its pratices we fought.
Tearing down that wall shows the rest of the world just how you feel.
My Grandfather came from Germany, my dad served in the U.S. Navy, he piloted a LST there at Normandy.
What a lot of folks dont know is there is another cemetery there, for the defenders of Normandy. I went there too, and the pain and honor was just as real.
No matter how you hard you try, its still terrifying to see that many graves, full of kids, no mater what side you were on, war still is horrible.
Ed

[Anonymous]

Why do the french plant so many trees along the roadsides? Because the Germans like to march in the shade.

[Anonymous]

The only rude joke about the Germans I've heard is the irony of Americans being called arrogant by the French and militaristic by the Germans.

Seriously, a few who are against the war seems to feel that freedom of speech also gives them the freedom to be rude and disruptive. That is what angers me.

By the way, in the '50's the rifle sale was for Italian rifles.

[dknelson]

Sorry Michael we are all too busy making rude jokes about the French to bother thinking about Germany today. I have yet to hear a single anti German joke which suggests nobody cares about German opposition.
For example:
I hear the French army is selling old WWII rifles. The ad says "Rifles for sale. Never fired -- dropped only once."

Dave Nelson

[Supermicha]

Hi, i´m from germany and a big american railway fan. Today i just want to know what do you think:

1. about the iraq war?
2. about the german oppinion to the war?

Please don´t tell me about the german history, i know it is not the best. Just tell me, what you think about this big political problem that we have.

My opinion, is, that mr. bush is too critical too us in germany. i think the war is not correct, but i don´t think that the americans are stupid because they are there. i have friends in the usa and we have no problems with each other. so i hope germans and americans will understand each other also in future like in past.

Micha