Americans and Germans?

[Anonymous]

Let us not forget the Vichy government that some french created during the Nazi occupation of france. The french sold so many of their own down the river to save some of their own skins. I will applaud those who helped in the underground. Can you still get bratwurst in Paris?

[edblysard]

Forgot to mention, if you hang your bootie out to the world long enought, guess what happens?
Some cowboy comes along and plants his boot in it.
Still Frosty, I think.
Ed

[edblysard]

What Vincent didnt mention, or dosnt know, is that france didnt "give" us the statue. They guy who designed it had to come here, america, to raise funds. We donated over a million dollars towards her construction. And it wasnt the french goverment who thought up the idea in the first place, it was a lone sculptor's dream to celebrate the fact that both countries were democratic republics, in a time when republics were being replaced by empires. Americans even paid to ship it over here, and american steelworkers put it together.
And france as a part of the new Iraq?
Yeah, I can really see a bunch of Kurds and Shite Muslims sitting there, sipping champange and eating fish eggs on little crackers, watching a chorus line doing the can-can, which seems to be about the only thing france can really claim to have though up on its own. Still flashing their butts at the world.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed,

That was great!!! I don't suppose we can replace the Statue of Liberty's torch with a middle finger. It faces france. After all their anti-American rhetoric, now they want a part in rebuilding and forming a new government in Iraq. The only thing france seems to be concerned about is the franc. How in the world are they a permanent member of the UN Security Council when they are afraid of their own shadow?

But they will sell arms to anyone if the price is right. Go figure.

Here's a list of french war heroes:

1.
2.
3.
4. You get the idea.

[edblysard]

Wappaw,
If you did, I would be the guy with the switchmans lantren, and I would lend it to you so you could see. I was in Vincents country, I have walked in the little towns where every wall, every building, every tree had bullet holes in them. I know how much that war cost his fellow country men, because my dad was right there, bringing his fellow countrymen to their rescue. I got a tour of a death camp, so now I know there really are monsters in this world, and most of them look just like humans. I was in Japan, in Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and visited the memorial and museum in the latter. Yes, it really did burn peoples shadows into the sidewalks and onto the sides of buildings. So whos the monster, the guy in the gray trenchcoat with the ugly little mustache, or the guy in the dapper suit who said drop them bombs? It all depends on where your standing, here in Houston, with my wife and kids asleep in the next room, or there in Hiroshima, looking at a little kids shadow on the sidewalk, put there 60 years ago by my country. Theres no way around it, war sucks, weather your the invader or the defender. But the alternative could be worst. The monsters just might win the next time.
So if you are going to wage war, make sure it a just cause your fighting for. And if someone comes to your aid, and sends 11000 of their kids to die on your beaches for your country, then you should wrap your arms around their legs and kiss their feet, and if they leave the bodies of their 11000 kids in your care, in your country, it should be one of the most holy and treasured places in your land. I didnt notice too many of Vincents country men telling us to go home, they would take care of the *** themselve, nor did I notice where they refused the billions of tons of wheat, and other food we sent them after. And they really didnt seem to mind when SAC, and the boomers of the US Navy kept the Russians in Russia for them. But they never seem to have a problem telling us what trash we are, and how wrong we are, when I dont see them doing a thing to stop all the horrors they complain about. They dont mind calling the world's policeman when they need him, but dont mind telling him what a jerk he is when they dont need him.
Apparently I come across as a big time Hawk, but Vincent didnt read all of my post, which was written in english, (silly me, to write in english on a american forum) that I didnt, and still dont agree with our presence in Iraq. They didnt directly attack us. I dont think we should have attacked them. I belive our armed services should be a defenseive tool, not a political device to force any other country to follow our lead. But thats a moot point now, so I will stand there, and salute those who return, helping them in any way I can. By the way, you ought to ask Jenny about the rules in Texas, she got her copy today.
Stay Frosty, and out of dark allys, you never know whos in them..
Ed

[Anonymous]

Yeh but apparently in the good ole US of A you can get arrested for watching a train. Go figer!!!

[Anonymous]

Hope I never meet you in a dark ally!

[edblysard]

Vincent,
No, we did not forget. But I doubt your country would even exsist today if not for all those GIs. Mien Fuher almost won. I dont remember my dad telling me about the LSTs full of french troops he took to the beach at normandy. Funny, I cant seem to find any reference to their being a platoon of french soliders there. But I do remember the french did own a little part of america, something called louisiana...where all the native americans were also slaughtered, or killed by the smallpox, syphillis and other lovely european gifts brought over.
By the way, what would have happened if Saddam, or Ole Binnie had hijacked the Concord, and flown it into the Eiffle Tower, and then dumped a nice load of anthrax into the water supply of Paris? Who would you have called on to help you? Or would you have tried to solve the problem by selling him more tanks and french built airplanes? Maybe send him some crossiants and caviar and a bottle of that horse pee your guys call wine?
You and yours do owe us a big debt. We kicked butt all the way across your country, fighting on land that you owned, to save your butt and your country, and we drove the invaders out of your country and back to the place they belonged. And your thanks has been to spit on us every chance you get, to act as if living in a country thats "old" somehow makes you better.
Yeah, and its still here, 60 years after we newcomers beat the *** for you, and picked you up, wiped your nose and your butt for you, patted you on the head, and told you its ok now, you can go back to telling us how much better your are than us. We won it for you, 11000 of our kids died on your beaches, then thousands fought all the way across your country, dieing the whole way. So sorry you had to pay for the Marshal plan, but I guess you expected all of that for free, after all, you havent been able to defend yourselves for all thoses years you speak of. Except for your Emperor Napolen, who only tried to conqure the world, but then he was french, so that makes it all right. Odd, but didnt he lose also, at a place called Waterloo, to those people who later helped drive another invader out of you country. Bet you thanked them as well as you thanked us. Clue you in on something.
Your entire country could fit inside my state, and I can promise you this, next time someone invades your arrogant, self centered, smug and generaly useless country, your can bet the farm that a whole bunch of good ole boy cowboys from Texas will be there to kick their butts out for you, again.
Havent notice your country doing a thing to help anyone else, any where in the world, in the last century. Yet you claim to have other solutions. Well, where were you? Doing what you seem to do best, waiting on someone else to do the work, so you can complain about how bad we did it, and how you would have done it better.
Know what? how about you, and the rest of the limp wristed paris ites go have a cup of that crap you call coffee at one of your trendy cafe's, while the men fini***he job you were too scared to do.
Any body know how to say kiss my butt in french?
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi RmC,
Kinda wondering , is RmC your initals, or a private pun or code? No offense, just nosey.
And we do agree on something, we both agree to disagree, which is what makes this country so unique. Still not sure we were justified in this, but its a little too late to really worry about it. And yes, it is a moral delimma, stay out of some other countries business, when we havent been attacked, or asked to intervene, or step in and put a end to such horrors. Its the same old problem, whats legal and whats moral sometimes dont equate. Just because it right dosnt make it legal, and just because its legal dosnt allways make it right.
We could argue the moral and legal aspect of this war all day, and half the night, but the fact is we are there, we won, and my main intent was to support the kids who went there, as our soliders, airmen and sailors, and have to return to a country that isnt completly behind their actions, or victories. Thats part of serving in the armed services, when the president says go, you go, regardless of how you feel about it, and you do the bast job you can, with honor and valor and duty your main goal. I dont agree with this war, but all the kids and their leaders have my respect for having gone and done such a hard thing. And I reconize one special fact. This is one of the few places in the world where I can post my feelings on a public forum, and not worry about reprisals from whatever party is in power.
Only in America!
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't mind the politicking in this forum so such if it didn't keep turning into a name calling session. Though I disagree with ED on the war and hope he will re-consider in the better light of future hindsight, he seems to be a fine man, with the good sense to make a good life for his family.

Now Rick, it is these personal attacks that are drivel. I am weary of them. But I have noticed where most the political negativity has been comming from in the last ten years or so. Some of you are giving "Liberalism" a bad name!

But we're on to ya! If only the rest of us can just keep in focus the fact that these America haters and Bush haters are only posing as liberal! They make a mockery of liberal tradition in their extreme hatred of those with more consevative values than themselves. I believe they are more interested in raw partisan power than they are in any ideal or morality.

Buy the way, if your not with us, and your not against us, just how would you define yourself in light of murderous butchers in the world vowing our destruction. Would you compromise - let them kill only half of us. Or maybe you would happily pretend to convert to their brand of Islam. Or halfway convert. Or maybe we could compromise with them and let them impose a sort of half democracy - half religious tyranny on the whole world. I could keep going, but such compromise is already obviously silly. So which is to be - one or the other! With us - or against us!

We may debate about whether we want to go to war - now or later, on their soil or our own, or to just give up our way of life. But sooner or later, a stand will be forced upon us. War has been and will again be imposed upon us regardless of our debates or personal opinions.

I personnaly would prefer that America not be the world's policeman. I don't think it is practical, and the use of force is always morally questionable. Moreover, I question why we should even give a hoot about the rest of the world enough to want to bother.

But on the other hand, can we morally and righteously stand by and let whole peoples of the world be tyranized, tortured, and murdered by genocidal butchers, when we have the power to prevent it.

This moral dilemma is stark, almost as stark as war itself. There is room for honest thought on both sides.

Bytheway, it is our tendancy to answer this dilemma with opposition to evil that has earned us the hatred of the evil doers.

We elect presidents and representatives to make these decisions for us, and allow them access to the worldly facts needed to make an honest decision - facts that the general population could never know about until it was too late.

I am willing to allow those we elect to make war and peace decisions so long as they do it constitutionally (they did - in this case). I will withhold my judgement of them until I have the better light of hindsight to guide me. I hope all Americans will.

RmC

[Anonymous]

One more funny joke on France.I'm laugthing
Get this one :
Hello,
Just a simple hello from the old Europe.(yes, old Europe , how old are you USA?)
It is funny to read your speaks about things that most of you can't even really understand.
Who all are you to speak as American ?
You all forgot that Europe 300 years ago built America. By the way the people of these days slaugthered all the natives American. How many of you are greatgrandson of Europeen?
You all forgot that you won your independance to the English with the help of the Frenchs.
You all forgot that the Lady of Liberty standing as the symbol of your country was offered by France.
You all forgot how our country was hurted this lastcentury (WW1 WW2), but you are so proud to tell about the Gi's sacrifices that gave their life for our freedom (thanks )
You don't know , that almost 1 of 3 familly lost a parent during the last war.
You all forgot what the Gi's coming back from Normandy told you about his pal dying in is arms, about the horror of the war, the blood spilled...
You all forgot that we paid the Marshall plan.
And You even ask yourself why most of us are against another war?.
How can you support this once more ?
I guess you forgot to many things to blame us because you think (and believe me you're wrong) that we have forgotten...
I don't give a f**k about Saddam.I do personaly think that there are ten thousands way to get rid of this deadly clown (by the way you can see that he is not the only tyran on this small planet..)
You all forgot that by acting this way Bush gets closer to Saddam than ever.
You even all forgot the reasons you are leading this war. Don't you?

It scares me.

4 things to end:
-Sorry , English is not my native langage ...;)
-I've nothing against to all of you , (i don't know you ) i'm just asking myself on how could you speak about people that you don't talk with? Freedom of speech ? maybe...Don't you think it's better to have the 2 sides of the story to have an opinion?
-Even if i'am against this war ( and the others too) i really do support the Boys engaged there (it's not a good solution , but they are on the right side)
-I could speak more about all of this, but i just remember that we are on a train forum so , let's speak about trains..do you think that they trains in Irak .(only kidding...;)))

Vincent, from France of course...

[Anonymous]

You guys are certainly right about the UN, I mean, they have passed resolution after resolution against Israel about her abuses but does anyone do anything about it? Heck no. And does Israel give a big camel's do-do about what the world thinks? Again, no. If a small country like that with absolutely no natural resources can spit in the world's eye, I say we do the same thing and kiss the UN goodbye.
Pop

[Anonymous]

Andrew, you are absolutely correct about the UN. It is a joke, nothing more than a farcical, powerless debating society that will be consigned to the trash-bags of history along with the League of Nations. What is the point of having a ‘UNITED’ Nations, when member states possessing a veto can simply use them to protect their own commercial interests? In the entire history of the UN, there have been only 3 occasions when force has been sanctioned and agreed by the UN Council. This is a joke.

This war seems to have been billed by certain left-wing elements as a US / British only action, but don’t forget that it was the UN that first said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, not the US. Those who object to the war on the basis of it being ‘illegal’ i.e. with no UN backing, have short memories. They forget that the Serbians were bombed when there was no UN sanction, as the Russians vetoed that too. I don’t seem to remember too much objection being kicked up back then.

The US is the richest, most powerful nation on earth. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how you use the power, the simple fact that you have it creates jealousy and resentment. You become a target of hate. In the same way that whenever there’s a riot, it always seems to be the Police who end up as the target of the anger, when all they’re trying to do is restore the peace. In the same way, this war seems to have been viewed by the cynical anti-war mob as a commercial, oil-driven invasion, like some 19th Century colonial land-grab. Ironically enough, the people that accuse the Bush administration of starting a war for Oil seem to ignore the fact that the only reason the French and Russians vetoed military action was to protect their own commercial contracts, with both nations also being owed huge amounts from Iraq in unpaid debts. Also, Michael Dresden accuses the US of double-standards, having previously supported Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war and sold him arms. He seems to ignore the fact that most of Saddam Hussein’s weapons came not from the US, but from France. The French even built Saddam Hussein a nuclear development plant back in the ‘70’s, and would have developed a nuclear weapon by now, had the Israelis not destroyed it back in 1981.

Ironically enough, when the dust has settled on this war, the US will have the upper hand over the French. The value of French exports to the US greatly exceeds that in the other direction, so it would be easy for the US to get their own back on the French with a few tariffs here and there.

We shall see……

The Phantom

[andrewjonathon]

Michael,

I am a Canadian currently living in the US and here are some of my thoughts.

First, I will say that I am disappointed by the decision of my fellow Canadians on this issue (strongly opposed to the war)because the main reason I hear is that the United Nations did not sanction the war. The UN is not "God" or even a moral institution. In almost every case that has required UN action, the UN has either done nothing or been forced, kicking and screaming to make a decision. For example, Rwanda - no action while 800,000 die, Croatia -lack of action, Bosnia - did nothing until thousands died. When it did take action it was so ineffective that Serbs removed thousands of Muslims to die from a "UN safehaven" and actually had the Dutch peacekeepers help with the process. Lets see, Kosovo obvious ethnic cleansing was taking place, but UN did nothing and finally NATO had to step in. East Timor - the UN did nothing until after thousands had died and the list goes on. The world complains about the "policeman" role the US plays but in reality with institutions like the UN, the world is better off having a policeman that will step in.

Lets face it we all benefit from the role the US plays and continues to play (including Germany). The biggest evidence of this is the TINY percent of GDP that most western countries (US excluded) allocate to military spending these days. Without the world security provided by the "world's 'hated' policeman" military spending would rise dramatically in most countries in order to survive against people like Saddam.

In regards to Mr Bush being too critical of Germany. While every country has a right to make their own decisions, I will say that in the last German general election, Chancellor Gerhard Schröder's anti-American comments went way over the line for any "friend" and Germany is fortunate that there hasn't been a stronger response from America. I think Germany is lucky that American citizen's don't pay more attention to overseas politics as most are not aware of the nasty rhetoric that was going on.

At the end of the day, I think the world is better off with friends like the US than friends like Saddam and so my support is with President George Bush.

[foamer4000]

The British wore red coats to hide the blood when they got shot. The French wear brown pants. You make the connection.

[Anonymous]

Paris, March 25, 2003.....
The French Government announced today that it is imposing a ban on the use of fireworks at Euro Disney.
The decision comes the day after a nightly fireworks display at the park, located just 30 miles outside of Paris, caused soldiers at a nearby French Army garrison to surrender to a group of German tourists.

[Anonymous]

France is also removing the blue and red stripes from their flag--all white suits them and they never have to lower it!!!

[jsanchez]

I stongly believe the U.S is doing the right thing, who can support a dictator who actually put folks in a shredder because they had opposing political views, that whole part of the world needs stability, democracy, and an opposing force to the Islamic fundelmentalism that is keeping this part of the world in the dark. I didn't vote for George Bu***he last election, but I will proudly do so next election. I think the French ,Russians and Germans were more interested in hiding what was going on in Iraq than doing what was right, ending Saddam's tyranny and persecution. My other opinion is the UN is a complete JOKE, how can anyone take an organization seriously that has China, Syria, and Sudan on the human rights commision.

[Anonymous]

A very well thought out and fine bit of writing by ironhorseman.
I also am proud of this nation and have scars on my body from wearing her uniform. My daughter also served in the Airborne in Somallia, my son is served in Desert Storm, Bosnia, Kosovo and was on duty in the Pentagon during 9/11 and still serves there today.
The reason I have stated this is that there is, always has been and always will be Americans who will serve proudly when the need arises. It is up to our leaders to use these people wisely, I have always felt that those who would lead, must first serve. A Commander-in-Chief and Secretary of Defense should have experienced active service in some branch of the Millitary.
And, let's do away with the hyphens. Let's just be Americans.
Pop

[eolafan]

Dave, here's one for you in return: "How many gears on a French tank? Answer, five...four in reverse and one in forward (just in case they get attacked from the rear)".

Seriously, the French and French companies are going to have to grin and bear the backlash of us Americans. Two examples, I have heard of many folks who are boycotting French hotels like Sofitel, wines and food, I have even heard of hundreds of electrical contractors who are now refusing to do business with Rexel...the largest electrical distributor in the world (and French owned)...how about that for voting with your dollars!

[eolafan]

BRAVO ED, VERY ELEQUENT, MANY THANKS.

[Anonymous]

I was a military brat. My father seved in our Army. I lived 3 years in Vicenzia, Italy, and 3 years in Frankfurt, Germany, some forty years ago, during the 1960s.

I love both of these nations. I have vacationed in both since. Even in the 1960s as a child, I heard "American Go Home" in both nations.

Nevertheless, I have always forgiven these uninformed Europeans. Every nation has pride....

However, your leadership, especially in France and Germany today, need to reread the UN Charter! The UN was created to foster democracy and freedoms around the world, not to stop wars.....

No one likes wars. But some of us appreciate standing up for human rights abroad. Some of us want to improve the lot of others, to bring civilization to the masses.... The UN should stand up to its charter. Otherwise, the UN becomes irrelevant.....

[Anonymous]

Everyone peacenik out there thinks the UN was created to stop wars. In fact, if anyone read the UN Charter, especially the French and the Germans, they would realize that the UN was created to spread democracy and freedom!

But since the French have forgotten, and will veto any resolution the UN Security Council might pass resulting in approving any deadline for war, the UN has become irrelevant.....

Now that we have our troops there, I would support a left turn from Baghdad and proceed to Damascus. We might as well as get rid of two military despots with one stroke...

[Anonymous]

you know of all the statements I herd this was the most mature well thought of them all and I am now better off for hearing it .I salute you and hope in the future we could hear more from you.I also wish we could get off the subject of politics 'smoking dope which seems to be slowly sneaking in to the forum 'but thanks for for standing up for whats right. bnsfpete

[sooblue]

Your young, but I won't hold that against you.*smile*
Nations are lead buy people. People grow old and die and new leaders step up to the plate. Our nation has tried to keep a sense of continuity from one leader to another through our congress.
And we have by design changed our leaders every 8 years. We make mistakes and we end up paying for them too.
No nation is perfect in every or any way. Sometimes what the government does and what the people want are two different things yet we support each other as the government is, for the people by the people. And in a greater sense, our government is for the world too!
I must say though that sometimes we Americans do think the world revolves around us but when I pull on my underwear and read made in China I remember that we are part of a greater brotherhood.
Twice before in our history we were Isolationists,
Prior to WWI and prior to WWII. The COST to our allies and us and to your nation and Japan went way beyond $$$ It almost broke the human spirit.
Since that time our nation has determined to not allow that to happen again.
Sometimes I wonder why it takes us so long to act while a people are getting butchered. The UN sits by and watches the butchery, reports on the butchery and shakes it's finger at the butchers but because one veto can derail it the UN is as impotent as a GELDING (a horse with no nuts)
to bad too because the UN is the right organization to deal with those butchers.
Frankly, the world owes the PEOPLE of the USA an apology. In the hands of any other nation even England, the power that we control would have been used to bring the world to its knees. I know this from history.
Of the 6000+ years of history the USA has been on the seen 227 or so years.
Every major power has tried to dominate the known world, Except the USA.
The day will come when our patience will grow thin and we will say enough of this.
The Israeli and Palestinian conflict is what is keeping the Mid-east in turmoil. It could end in a FLASH! or JEW and MUSLEM could end their petty feud and set about redefining boarders so the Palestinians can have a home. Why doesn't the UN, "UNITED NATIONS" do something other than shake a finger?
Sooblue

[ironhorseman]

If the USA should stop acting as the world's police then who will take that roll? The United Nations? I hope to God not.

Saddam is being taken out by force because it is no secret he hates the U.S. and would do anything to destroy us. He is a back-stabber. True,the U.S. supported him over 23 years ago, but the U.S. was much different then. The president at the time was Jimmy Carter, from the Democrat party. The president now is George Bush, from the Republican party. We're cleaning up the mistakes of the democrats. Bill Clinton, a Democrat, had the opportunity to get Osama bin Ladin in 1998 and refused. September 11 trajedy could have been avoided. Also, where were all the protestors during Bill Clinton's wars? Remember Mogadishu? How about Bosnia? or Kosovo? How about the bombing of the asperin factory in Iraq during Clinton's adminstration? Where were the protestors then?! Where was the outrage then?

The world gets the perception the USA is all bad but they fail to see the people we have freed from oppression, the humanitarian aid we give to many other countries. We send missionaries all over the world to help the poor. Every day on TV there are commericals to donate money to feed the poor children of the world. The USA government gives millions of dollars in aid to countries suffering natural disasters such as earthquakes and floods and will never see one dollar returned.

America DOES take care of herself. Everyday our city and state governments pass legislation or raise taxes to build better streets, pay for food for the homeless and hungry, create jobs for the unemployed.

America has risen herself up from the dirt back in 1776 to shake of the tyranical chains of Great Britain to become the most powerful, most beloved, and even the most hated nation on the face of the earth and we did it on own with out help from anyone. Sure, Americans are boastful and love to brag, but can you blame us? It takes a special kind of person to be an American. It takes guts and determination. REMEMBER: we are a nation of ALL imigrants. The natives migrated from Asia. The Europeans came in the 1500s to present day. We are Germans, French, Russians, Irish, Chinese, Africans, Austrailians, and even Iraqis. "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses to breath free..." inscription on Statue of Liberty.

From 1863-1869 we built a railroad from the mid-west to the Pacific Ocean. This is 2/3 of the continent 1,700 miles. There were no settlements anywhere of anysize execpt at Salt Lake City, Utah. The crews would cross the praries, the desert, and into the Great Rocky Mountains at an altitude of 8,000 feet blasting through solid granite with nothing more than hand chisels and black gun powder. Nearly 2,000 died or were severly wounded doing this. Who started it all? Four shopkeepers and a man with a vision: Theodore Judah. Read Stephen E. Ambrose's book "Nothing Like It In The World" or see the American Experience video by PBS called the "Iron Road" if you can.

Before this railroad most people walked from Independance, Missouri to west coast over what was known as th Oregon Trail.

Now, maybe I've said too much, and maybe I've become too preachy, but I believe in the USA system of government, I have full faith in our president, and pride in my country and it's history, but hurts everytime someone attacks the USA even if it's just words. A foreigner that attacks the USA is attacking his or her own ancestors and relatives. And Americans that attack other countries also attack their their distant cousins. We don't march into Iraq for fun or games but with a heavy heart that we have a dirty job that needs to be done. The USA gave Saddam the power and now we're sorry we did.

signed,
ironhorseman

P.S. if you have any questions on U.S. history, particularly the railroads, I'd be happy to try and answer them. I'm a univeristy student with a minor in history and my dad is a civics and history teacher.

[edblysard]

Hi Pop,
I couldnt agree with you more.
But, sadly, they have nothing to sell that Americans want to buy, so business, which drives the political process in this country, ingnores them. Ad to it the fact that we use Israel as a world police substation in that part of the world even further distortes the plight they face.
Ironic, they are fighting in a city and the area around it, where the most influential peace maker the world has ever know was born and raised.
They kill each other in the streets of a city both hold as the most holy.
And Jesus wept...
Ed

[Anonymous]

9/11 AND YOU KNOW IT DON'T PLAY STUPID !!!

[Anonymous]

If we are going to go around the world helping oppressed people, then how about the Palestinians.
They have had their land stolen from them and have been persecuted since 1948.
Pop

[edblysard]

Hi Mica,
Question for you.
Who controls Germany?
Who controls Japan?
Italy?
We won WWII, and rebuilt, or helped rebuild these countries.
Then we took our army, and went home.
Yes, we left military bases in Europe, at the request of most of the countries involved.
And funny, every time one smaller country is threatened by another, bigger country, the smaller country always demands the USA get involved, and help them beat the big bad guys.
If we dont, we are called callous and uncaring, and damned by everyone for not stoping the bad guys.
Then, we we do get involved, we damned again for getting involved.
We didnt decide to become the world's policeman, you guys appointed us that job. And every time we do our job, we are the bad guys.
And no, we dont have the most wars to our credit.
Japan, Germany, Russia and Italy, not to mention France and Great Britian, each and all exceed the USA in the number of wars fought in the last two centuries.
Another question for you.
Is Germany perfect yet?
Does your country have any internal problems, like poverty?
If so, why are you worring about what some other country is doing? Should not you worry about clearing your problems first, before worring about others?
Of course your country has problems, name me one that dosnt.
But Saddam isnt just a American problem.
Just like the USSR wasnt just a American problem.
Remember that wall?
When any country threatens the safety of the entire world, and disregards the laws it agreed to abide by, its everyones problem.
Now, I dont entirely agree with how our goverment has chosen to handle Iraq, but no one else seemed to want to take care of him, just sit around and complain that he was a problem.
So the world police were called, and now that we are there, we are the bad guys again.
And if my neighbor had 1000 guns, and marched around his front yard with one, I wouldnt do a thing.
But what if he pointed one of his guns at me or my kids?
Stay Frosty,
Ed