I HAVE NEVER BEEN TREATED SO BADLY BY A RR EMPLOYEE

[wctransfer]

Ahh, i love that where i am all the time the people know me and talk to me ALL the time. I'd say more but if some leaks back to the CN , well we all know what will happen. Anyway, if anyone wants WC pics come to me! That CN guy didnt have much to do that day im guessing, and i may trespass but not on CN property, its owned by CP and my Uncle is a Dispatcher for the CP. I have gotten into cabs of CP engines just because i got connections. Also got a ride from Shoreham to Pigs Eye ( for you all familiar with them )

Alec

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE:
I'm not as young as you think, I have considerable life experience. Unlike you I do not trespass unless by ignorance of not knowing the property line. If I knew the line I did not cross it unless invited in by the railroad. With the No Trespassing signs posted everywhere it has not happened in many years.

(OPINION) Your "more flys with honey" statement is interesting because it goes both ways. The railroad employees are part of a business which needs customers to survive. What if the father and son were the brother and nephew of a very large railroad shipper, a railroad shipper that is on the fence about a decision to keep using the railroad or switching to truck and all he needs is a slight pu***o move to truck? The CN guy just gave him the push.

the "trespassing" I was talking about includes anytime I step onto a ROW...technically anytime you step onto the RR's ballast, you are on private property...you are gonna tell me that you call ahead for permission everytime before you even do that?

Yes, I do not trespass.

You may want to read Randy's post above.

[Green Bay Paddlers]

Sounds like you were trespassing and the CN guy was doing his job. I'm confused what the issue is here?

[Anonymous]

Take a look at this:

http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46724

[oskar]

I feel really sorry for you bud I mean following you come on thats wrong I am glad that you kept doing what you were doing if I was your dad I would have given him words then would have told a familar CN person.

I am glad it wasn't NS they are the nicest ones I met besides FEC


kevin

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
I'm not as young as you think, I have considerable life experience. Unlike you I do not trespass unless by ignorance of not knowing the property line. If I knew the line I did not cross it unless invited in by the railroad. With the No Trespassing signs posted everywhere it has not happened in many years.

(OPINION) Your "more flys with honey" statement is interesting because it goes both ways. The railroad employees are part of a business which needs customers to survive. What if the father and son were the brother and nephew of a very large railroad shipper, a railroad shipper that is on the fence about a decision to keep using the railroad or switching to truck and all he needs is a slight pu***o move to truck? The CN guy just gave him the push.

Well man, you don't have to get mad, I just asked how young you were because it sounded like you make up your mind based upon initial observations, without trying to weigh both sides of the story objectively....

And snap judgements are great when they are right....but when they aren't you soon learn the value of objectivity.

the "trespassing" I was talking about includes anytime I step onto a ROW...technically anytime you step onto the RR's ballast, you are on private property...you are gonna tell me that you call ahead for permission everytime before you even do that? Well then, you should never have problems like this kid and his dad did, good for you.

My POINT however, was to show that even lowly scumbag trespassers like me can get off easy when caught, if they just use their head and treat the RR employees with a little respect.

As far as if the caught trespassers had ended up being some big shot with a large rail customer.....yeah that could have cost the employee his job....it also could have impressed the big shot so much with the guys dedication, that he offered him a better job wanting a guy with such spirit working for him...Guess we will never know. huh?[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:

That's a good angle. One that I have had much success with in my life. After all, who wants there boss to have to get involved, especialy if he's in the wrong.[;)]

Exactly!! But that broom sweeps both ways, If the complainer HAS been out of line, and deserves to get a sound "spanking", they know that by escalating the stakes, they better have clean hands if they expect to prevail.

I've had "disgruntled" customers who decided to get cute and try to go over my head, and had my supervisor get even more twisted than I had been after the whole story was known.

[Anonymous]

god have mercy on him. he needs help with whatever character defect he has. i have many myself. being a alcoholic and crack addic ive unloaded on people in the past and have paid for it in jail time. but no more alco or coke since im in aa and na.when god removed my cravings, i treated people now with love and respect. before i was a real grouch and a** h*** !!

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Yea, If it was me that this guy harrased, I would have taken his picture and said"Thanks, Now I have a sure fire winner for the **** head of the year award." [swg]

Well said my friend. Also, if he wants to pretend to be the public police on public property, you got a nice shot of his ugly mug to go with the harassment complaint for the real public police.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by piouslion

Tis a far better approach to simply offer that "you're on RR property, we'd appreciate it if you leave, you can see it from over there...", but we knew that.

Tree i could not have said it better myself. Compliments and regards - PL

[Randy Stahl]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Green Machine

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

thing have changed the last few years....get used to it and STAY OFF PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Railroads are extremely dangerous.

Perhaps he did have a bad day...maybe he got his butt chewed out for safety violations of letting someone trespass. Who knows?

Imagine getting hurt or even worse...that would have been bad.

ed

yeah, or....Maybe he's just a typical *** with no sense of decency or civility or friendliness towards strangers. Lord knows there are PLENTY of THOSE around.
Screw that guy. He probably hates his job and hates his life. MAybe he got picked on in gradeschool. Whatever the cause for his hostility, I wouldn't let it bother you. Obviously he's a very unhappy human being, which is something he has to live with...

I know who this person from the CN is... You pretty much nailed it !!! I used to work for him.

[Anonymous]

Tis a far better approach to simply offer that "you're on RR property, we'd appreciate it if you leave, you can see it from over there...", but we knew that.

[chad thomas]

Some people just need a good old fasion A$$ kickin'.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Green Machine
yeah, or....Maybe he's just a typical *** with no sense of decency or civility or friendliness towards strangers. Lord knows there are PLENTY of THOSE around.
Screw that guy. He probably hates his job and hates his life. MAybe he got picked on in gradeschool. Whatever the cause for his hostility, I wouldn't let it bother you. Obviously he's a very unhappy human being, which is something he has to live with...

His co-workers are probably glad to hear him grouse about that instead of them for a change.

While rgroeling and his father handled the situation well, it is a confrontational person like that who will sometimes end up in a physical confrontation, or will cause the people who he confronted to go do something like trespass on RR property elsewhere, just to "show" him, if you will.

Tis a far better approach to simply offer that "you're on RR property, we'd appreciate it if you leave, you can see it from over there...", but we knew that. Of course, this person had also bought into the myth that it's illegal to take photos of trains, so short of outright leaving, they weren't going to please him.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Green Machine

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

thing have changed the last few years....get used to it and STAY OFF PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Railroads are extremely dangerous.

Perhaps he did have a bad day...maybe he got his butt chewed out for safety violations of letting someone trespass. Who knows?

Imagine getting hurt or even worse...that would have been bad.

ed

yeah, or....Maybe he's just a typical *** with no sense of decency or civility or friendliness towards strangers. Lord knows there are PLENTY of THOSE around.
Screw that guy. He probably hates his job and hates his life. MAybe he got picked on in gradeschool. Whatever the cause for his hostility, I wouldn't let it bother you. Obviously he's a very unhappy human being, which is something he has to live with...

That's probably the case. Sounds to me like he needs a good thumpin. Yes he might have a job to do but he doesn't have to be a *** head while doing it.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

thing have changed the last few years....get used to it and STAY OFF PRIVATE PROPERTY.

Railroads are extremely dangerous.

Perhaps he did have a bad day...maybe he got his butt chewed out for safety violations of letting someone trespass. Who knows?

Imagine getting hurt or even worse...that would have been bad.

ed

yeah, or....Maybe he's just a typical *** with no sense of decency or civility or friendliness towards strangers. Lord knows there are PLENTY of THOSE around.
Screw that guy. He probably hates his job and hates his life. MAybe he got picked on in gradeschool. Whatever the cause for his hostility, I wouldn't let it bother you. Obviously he's a very unhappy human being, which is something he has to live with...

[trainboyH16-44]

Heres a thread on how to post pics. http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=46236
Hope your pics are good!
Matthew

[MP173]

The "what if" I framed was based on someone coming in your house and then being asked to leave and then taking pictures from the road.

Hey, look if you guys want to argue this ad nauseum go right ahead. I have been around people who just love to push people's buttons. See how much they can get away with before the person gets upset. To me that is counterproductive.

Compare this with the other Wisconsin thread that is floating around about the three accidents involving cars and trains this week.

In those situations it is clear the people should not have been on the property. What does it take a loss of life or injury before it is understood.

There are plenty of public places to watch train. That is where I will stay.

ed

[chad thomas]

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Never heard of a roadkill fan. Now that's a different hobby. [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

[StillGrande]

As far as houses having pictures taken and people poking around on private property and such, you obviously do not live in a historic district. In downtown Alexandria VA, for example, people with townhomes in the area just expect people to be looking in the ground floor rooms of the houses, taking pictures, heck, some even make comments about the decorating. There was an excellent article about this in the Washington Post this week. Got the same thing in Savannah, GA.

Can't control what people take pictures of in public. My old college roommate used to take pictures of roadkill.

[chad thomas]

Yea, If it was me that this guy harrased, I would have taken his picture and said"Thanks, Now I have a sure fire winner for the **** head of the year award." [swg]

[StillGrande]

Did you take his picture?

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BaltACD



The rail operating culture almost ensures that any challenge will not be tactful. Operating rail employees are not hired for their 'Public Relations' abilities.

(OPINION) Then that will contribute to their business failure and the loss of their jobs.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates


Where this kid and his dad screwed up is that they should have demanded to talk to this employee's supervisor, that would have settled the problem quick. one way or the other

That's a good angle. One that I have had much success with in my life. After all, who wants there boss to have to get involved, especialy if he's in the wrong.[;)]

[BaltACD]

In view of the security situation that exists today in the free world. All rail employees are being encouraged to challenge ANY, repeat ANY tresspasser that is observed on company property.

The rail operating culture almost ensures that any challenge will not be tactful. Operating rail employees are not hired for their 'Public Relations' abilities.

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

You are young, huh?

I base my entire opinion upon my suspicion that the kid and his pop were less than 100% cooperative, leading to the conflict of personalities.

I've tresspassed on RR property hundreds, if not thousands of times in my life. And encountered dozens and dozens of RR employees, most of the time finding a pleasant conversation,....3 times however, I was asked to leave.

A lot of this has to do with the way you treat people... "more flys with honey" etc

I'm not as young as you think, I have considerable life experience. Unlike you I do not trespass unless by ignorance of not knowing the property line. If I knew the line I did not cross it unless invited in by the railroad. With the No Trespassing signs posted everywhere it has not happened in many years.

(OPINION) Your "more flys with honey" statement is interesting because it goes both ways. The railroad employees are part of a business which needs customers to survive. What if the father and son were the brother and nephew of a very large railroad shipper, a railroad shipper that is on the fence about a decision to keep using the railroad or switching to truck and all he needs is a slight pu***o move to truck? The CN guy just gave him the push.

(OPINION) You never know who you are dealing with at any point in time and when you are in business you treat everyone as though they are your next customer because they could be. The railroaders in the yard and on the road are representatives of the railroad as much or more than the salesmen in the office. If they want to stay in business then they need to keep those customers. I treat everyone I meet as though they are my next customer and I have managed to be successful in business for ** years.

(OPINION) There are exceptions, people you know on site are evil and up to no good. I doubt this father and son fell into that category.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

TheAntiGates:

Okay, I suspect that my description of the CN employee is correct. Happy now?.

You are the pot calling the kettle black. My assurances about the CN guy are no different than your assurances the whole story is made up. Where you there?

Did I say it WAS made up, or that it sounded made up.? There is a difference.

You are young, huh?

I base my entire opinion upon my suspicion that the kid and his pop were less than 100% cooperative, leading to the conflict of personalities.

I've tresspassed on RR property hundreds, if not thousands of times in my life. And encountered dozens and dozens of RR employees, most of the time finding a pleasant conversation,....3 times however, I was asked to leave.

I suppose I could have taunted them by retreatimng 15 feet to public property and defying them to mess with me there, but yanno what? I just found it so much easier to simply say "of course, sorry to have troubled you" and then simply left...

And then I railfan someplace else for a couple weeks, to break any chain of continuity the RR employee might have.

I try to remain mindful that I am visiting "their place" when I go onto private property, and when asked to leave, I treat their request with the same respect I would expect in my own back yard... and specifically do not challenge them by asking where their authority ends (which is what the "public property" defense is, it is a challenge to their authority.

"Why fight battles that don't have to be fought?" is my way of looking at it.

Which strategy is better? well, in 48 years I've only been ejected 3 times, and not once have you seen me griping about how horribly I was abused. I'll let you decide which is worse.


Here is the funny thing, the most recent time i was ejected, (2 years ago) I was near a very busy interlocking , that was next to the main Triple crown yard facility.

I had been out there several hours, all over the place, and saw many many things. Countless yard and engine crews MUST have seen me, I'll bet the length
of time I was there finally got on somebody's nerves, and they decided it was time for me to go... So, they sent a yard guy all the way out in a truck just to tell me to leave..

Pleasant exchange.....The guy told me I didn't belong there and that his boss wanted me gone. I smiled and appologized for the trouble, agreed to leave, and started walking TOWARDS the yard. He stops me again and asks me why I wasn't leaving, and I replied to assure him that I was,...but my car was next to the yard entry, and I was just headed to my car.. so he just smiled and and drove away.

Compare that to this other guys experiance, and you tell me who has a better plan.

A lot of this has to do with the way you treat people... "more flys with honey" etc

[richardy]

TheAntiGates:

Okay, I suspect that my description of the CN employee is correct. Happy now?.

You are the pot calling the kettle black. My assurances about the CN guy are no different than your assurances the whole story is made up. Where you there?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy


At the point the CN guy started harassing them on public property he was breaking the law and subject to arrest. The railroaders on this site can support this guy all they want but he is a hothead with no diplomacy skills, probably little education and has no business being a manager. He is a pushy person that gets his kicks out of harassing people thinking he is really someone,

Richardy,

You are right about the "harrassing on public property" bit, THAT was a dumb way to go about what the guy needed to do.

But, as far as your assurances that the guy is pushy, and how he gets his kicks, how the heck do you KNOW that for certain? Do you know the guy, were you even there, or are you simply sitting there behind your screen and keyboard and practicing psychology without a license? Seems like you forgot to include the words "I suspect" ot "perhaps" or even "in my opinion" in your free diagnosis.

If it had been me in that RR employee's shoes, this kids mother would STILL be down at the pawn shop trying to hock her jewelry to bail pop and young son out of the clink.

Norfolk Southern has what you might call "safety spys" who go out and observe and make notes if enployees on the job are working according to proceedure. Other RR's may have them as well

This employee that caused so much grief may be under orders to eject trespassers, and was simply protecting his job.......until, that is, the civil rights commission came along for their impromptu recital of the bill of rights.

Where this kid and his dad screwed up is that they should have demanded to talk to this employee's supervisor, that would have settled the problem quick. one way or the other

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ChrisBARailfan

I am not going to comment on this specific situation, but everyday Americans are giving up more and more freedom. At the rate we are going there may be a time when there are no more freedoms.

And remember, once a freedom is taken it is rarely returned.

YUP[:(]