QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox The C&NW recognized the potental in the PRB in the early 1970s but could not find a way to finance the project. During this time I was a Market Manager at the C&NW. The BN initically announced they were going to object to the C&NW coming into the PRB. Robert Spafford, Chairman of the ICC, invited Larry Provo, CEO of the C&NW and Bob Dowding, CEO of the BN to a meeting in Washington. He pointed out to his guests that the US faced an energy crisis and the national interest required the C&NW coming into the PRB as soon as they could arrange financing and specifically without a long drawn out ICC case about the C&NW getting access. The two CEOs agreed with Mr Spafford's view. bobwilcox: What is/was a Market Manager, at CNW? Thanks However, the C&NW was unable to finance the project via the Cowboy Line or a connection with the UP in NE. Therefore, the UP thought the C&NW should step aside and not object to the UP coming in from Nebraska via the North Platte River. The C&NW's counter proposal was that they set up a joint venture(Northwest Town Properties). The C&NW contributed their geographic position and the UP contributed their borrowing power to the new joint venture.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox The C&NW recognized the potental in the PRB in the early 1970s but could not find a way to finance the project. During this time I was a Market Manager at the C&NW. The BN initically announced they were going to object to the C&NW coming into the PRB. Robert Spafford, Chairman of the ICC, invited Larry Provo, CEO of the C&NW and Bob Dowding, CEO of the BN to a meeting in Washington. He pointed out to his guests that the US faced an energy crisis and the national interest required the C&NW coming into the PRB as soon as they could arrange financing and specifically without a long drawn out ICC case about the C&NW getting access. The two CEOs agreed with Mr Spafford's view. bobwilcox: What is/was a Market Manager, at CNW? Thanks However, the C&NW was unable to finance the project via the Cowboy Line or a connection with the UP in NE. Therefore, the UP thought the C&NW should step aside and not object to the UP coming in from Nebraska via the North Platte River. The C&NW's counter proposal was that they set up a joint venture(Northwest Town Properties). The C&NW contributed their geographic position and the UP contributed their borrowing power to the new joint venture.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73 Union Pacific took out an option to buy the Iowa Interstate in May 1989 while Japonica Partners launched a hostile takeover bid for the C&NW. UP would have put in double track and CTC and certainly could have built a large yard away from Chicago, much as they have done at Rochelle. Perhaps they would have purchased the EJE east of Joliet and interchanged with NS, CSX and Conrail in Indiana. The Rochelle webcam would have been at Wyanet. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=16&X=176&Y=2863&W
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73 Union Pacific took out an option to buy the Iowa Interstate in May 1989 while Japonica Partners launched a hostile takeover bid for the C&NW. UP would have put in double track and CTC and certainly could have built a large yard away from Chicago, much as they have done at Rochelle. Perhaps they would have purchased the EJE east of Joliet and interchanged with NS, CSX and Conrail in Indiana. The Rochelle webcam would have been at Wyanet. http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=13&Z=16&X=176&Y=2863&W Deja-Vu! Makes you wonder why UP didn't jump right in and buy CNW at that time?
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox Each market manager at the C&NW was in charge of a group of commodities. I did chemicals while other people did grain, autos, coal, lumber,food, etc. It was our job to design the services our customers required, set the price for the service and then promote the C&NW's services to the customers. Most of the time I was doing this prior to the Staggers Act so the pricing part had serious limitations. However, we were able to get block shipments of potash and grain up and running prior to Staggers. In addition the CNW in the 1970s had three basic strategies. We were to get the comuter service deficits off our back and on to the backs of the taxpayers in NE IL. We were to abandon the 60% of the mileage that only produced 4% of the revenue. We were to build a strong relationship with the UP after the CRIP fiasco when the UP and CNW were at each others throats. All of our market plans had to complement these three strategies.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding Can you elaborate on designing the services your customers required? If most was regulated, what could CNW do to differentiate it from other railroads, in order to keep from competing soley on price?
QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73 Union Pacific bought the C&NW for the line from Council Bluffs to Chicago. It was competing with ATSF for Chicago-California traffic and with BN for Pacific North West-Chicago traffic and it needed that line to be in top shape. UP was concerned C&NW would let the line degrade. UP had the morgage on the WRPI and would have gotten that one way or another. The rest of the C&NW was not that important to UP.
QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by up829 UP rerouted much of it's traffic .. The UP or any other railroad does not have traffic to reroute. The person paying the freight routes the traffic. There are no exceptions except for a emergency situation such as a derailment or a flood.
QUOTE: Originally posted by up829 UP rerouted much of it's traffic ..
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding As part of the BN merger, CNW was granted (?) a *Gateway* to the BN at Oakes, N.D. Did they use this? And, did it do them any good? Of course, the line is gone now.[:(] Thanks
QUOTE: Originally posted by up829 QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox QUOTE: Originally posted by up829 UP rerouted much of it's traffic .. The UP or any other railroad does not have traffic to reroute. The person paying the freight routes the traffic. There are no exceptions except for a emergency situation such as a derailment or a flood. Perhaps reroute is the wrong word and I should have said shifted? In any case, during the late 60s UP was short-hauling itself over the CB&Q via Grand Island to avoid the CNW Omaha line into Chicago. Once Heineman was gone, CNW did major repairs to the line, opened the Fremont cutoff and as you mentioned in another post, relations and traffic improved greatly. Some other things CNW did that made it desireable to UP was the opening of Global 1 at Wood street , development of Intermodal business, the Falcons. etc. The line was aleady double-track and capable of high speed without needing major re-alignments like the RI and Milw routes would have required. Regarding the buyout, I seem to recall that UP owned a big chunk of non-voting stock as part of the coal line deal. They were also a major player in the Blackstone Group which served as a white knight against the Japonica bid. I believe they owned something like 30% of the stock at the time of the buyout and probably controlled more through other partners in Blackstone. IMHO both roads ultimately benefited. The partnership with UP in the coal line saved CNW from becoming just another granger, while the Omaha line continues to be the vital eastern part of the Overland Route, just as it has been since the beginning.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding Are you saying CNW opened Global 1? I thought UP did?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Chris_S68 QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding Are you saying CNW opened Global 1? I thought UP did? Global One/Wood street = CNW Global Two/Proviso = CNW Global Three/Rochelle = UP
QUOTE: Originally posted by up829 Perhaps reroute is the wrong word and I should have said shifted? In any case, during the late 60s UP was short-hauling itself over the CB&Q via Grand Island ... Regarding the buyout...
QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173 I recall there was an article in Trains (late 70's) that gave a in depth look at the Falcons. It was in the form of the writer riding the Falcon from Chicago to the handoff to the UP. Might be good looking up for more historical info for you CNW fans. It might have been titled "Route of the Falcons" or "Where Falcons Fly" something like that. ed
QUOTE: Originally posted by farmer03 Maybe someone could give me a brief explanation of what/who Japonica was?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding [ What were the falcons? Thanks
QUOTE: Originally posted by up829 QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding [ What were the falcons? Thanks The Falcons were scheduled high speed run-through TOFC/COFC trains. I believe the service started in the early to mid 70s. Wood Street was used as the terminal because it was close to the city with good access from nearby expressways. There were cutoff times for trucks and the trains left on time with whatever they had. CNW did a really good job marketing the service and it was very successful. When double-stack serviice started, Wood Street and an old B&O yard adjacent to it were turned into Global One.
QUOTE: By: Murphy Siding: Is there a UP equivilent of the Falcons? It sounds like a good program that was a little before it's time.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Chris30 QUOTE: By: Murphy Siding: Is there a UP equivilent of the Falcons? It sounds like a good program that was a little before it's time. ZCSLT - High priority intermodal, Canal St, Chicago, IL to Lathrop, CA (Sometimes this train is symboled as ZCSOA for Oakland, CA). A lot of orange Schneidner trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @1:30pm ZLTCS - Lathrop, CA to Canal St, Chicago, IL ZCSSC - Canal St, Chicago, IL to Salt Lake City, UT. A lot of UPS trailers. Used to see this train roll through Elmhurst, IL at @9:45pm. ZSCCS - Salt Lake City, UT to Canal St, Chicago, IL CC
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