Trains.com

New cross country perishable train

17059 views
201 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Cedar Rapids, IA
  • 4,213 posts
Posted by blhanel on Saturday, November 18, 2006 2:41 PM
Not sure which one's leading, but the info I have shows three SD70Ms- 5168, 4917 and 4319.

I still have high hopes of getting a shot this afternoon.
  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Saint Charles, IL
  • 61 posts
Posted by AMTK161 on Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:38 PM
Does anyone know what this train's lead engine is?  I think I might have to go out and check this train out, but I think I'll wait until a GEVO-powered train turns up.
AMTK161 Please check out my updated railroad audio recordings webpage at: http://www.putfile.com/AMTK161
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:51 PM

It is nice to tighten up the schedule just a tad.

But always leave some room for goofs and red alerts. Nothing destroys an assigned run than a over tight schedule and bigwig suits descending from the ivory tower sticking pudgy demanding fingers into everyone's pie all the way down to the train crew.

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Cedar Rapids, IA
  • 4,213 posts
Posted by blhanel on Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:28 PM
Just heard this morning that they swapped out the remaining GEVOs for SD70Ms- still running a few hours behind where it normally is.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: near Chicago
  • 937 posts
Posted by Chris30 on Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:19 PM

Nice to hear from Bill again... I thought we would get a response on the operation after he pulled himself out from under the pile of potatoes. Congratulations!

Perhaps the UP wasn't expecting engine issues with their new Gevo's. This would be called bad planning. I was originally expecting the UP to handle any engine issues immediately, even resorting to power swaps as needed. With the schedule and speed that this train runs at though, there might be issues with the cab signals. Does the UP assisgn special engines (Gevo's) to these trains with the cab signals set to 75mph in the ex-CNW territory?

Speaking of that schedule... It's better to start with a padded schedule and then tighten it as the bugs get work than have it the other way around.

CC

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 11:43 PM
 jeffhergert wrote:
 greyhounds wrote:

2.  Why are locomotives such pieces of crap?  They fail regularly.  It seems that a machine that cost $1.5 million plus ought to run reliably.

 

  A while back I caught a westbound intermodal with 4 brand new SD70ace's. The odometer on the computer screen was 332 miles when I got on at Boone, which is about the distance from Chicago.  The new paint smell was so strong down in the nose a person could get a buzz from the fumes.  

  Around Carroll, Iowa I started to notice a faint odor like hot electrical wiring.  About half way up Arcadia hill I started getting ground relay reset faults.  The locomotive help desk told me to cut out the lead truck traction motors the next time we stopped.  If that didn't stop the faults, try cutting out the trailing truck.  We stopped at Vail, Iowa behind a train that had to check a hot box hit. I cut out the lead truck and all my faults disappeared off the screen.  We got a signal to go and started to roll.  That is everything but the lead axle which had locked up and wouldn't turn. That was quite a night.

 Jeff 

Heh.

Root causes if not solved immediately tend to cascade into bigger failures. (More expensive ones)

But with a virgin unit? I suspect they must have maybe.. slipped it to delivery without a complete Q/A check.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Central Iowa
  • 6,899 posts
Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, November 17, 2006 11:36 PM
 greyhounds wrote:

 

2.  Why are locomotives such pieces of crap?  They fail regularly.  It seems that a machine that cost $1.5 million plus ought to run reliably.

 

  A while back I caught a westbound intermodal with 4 brand new SD70ace's. The odometer on the computer screen was 332 miles when I got on at Boone, which is about the distance from Chicago.  The new paint smell was so strong down in the nose a person could get a buzz from the fumes.  

  Around Carroll, Iowa I started to notice a faint odor like hot electrical wiring.  About half way up Arcadia hill I started getting ground relay reset faults.  The locomotive help desk told me to cut out the lead truck traction motors the next time we stopped.  If that didn't stop the faults, try cutting out the trailing truck.  We stopped at Vail, Iowa behind a train that had to check a hot box hit. I cut out the lead truck and all my faults disappeared off the screen.  We got a signal to go and started to roll.  That is everything but the lead axle which had locked up and wouldn't turn. That was quite a night.

 Jeff 

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Cedar Rapids, IA
  • 4,213 posts
Posted by blhanel on Friday, November 17, 2006 9:03 PM
 CShaveRR wrote:
Not lookin' good right now--scheduled to pass you in the wee hours Sunday Morning.  Of course, thanks to the padding, it may pick up a bit on that, especially if they find another GEVO somewhere (so far, these trains have been powered by nothing but GEVOs).


(sigh)

"If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all..."

Next Saturday I'll probably still be up north somewhere.
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, November 17, 2006 8:20 PM
Not lookin' good right now--scheduled to pass you in the wee hours Sunday Morning.  Of course, thanks to the padding, it may pick up a bit on that, especially if they find another GEVO somewhere (so far, these trains have been powered by nothing but GEVOs).

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    January 2002
  • From: Cedar Rapids, IA
  • 4,213 posts
Posted by blhanel on Friday, November 17, 2006 7:38 PM
 CShaveRR wrote:
I've been watching these trains' progress since they started running.  The eastbound run this week is having problems, it would appear, with only two units running (the third unit died, reportedly).  Still, every train so far has beaten its schedule handily.


It better not be more than four hours behind its usual schedule...Banged Head [banghead]
  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • 4,371 posts
Posted by greyhounds on Friday, November 17, 2006 6:47 PM

Two disturbing things.

1)  They aparently built in more than a day (sometimes two days) padding in the schedule.  And there's a 20 hour variance in running times.  It's a high priority unit train for cripes sake.  UP and CSX have to be able to schedule trains and operate better than that. 

2.  Why are locomotives such pieces of crap?  They fail regularly.  It seems that a machine that cost $1.5 million plus ought to run reliably.

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Friday, November 17, 2006 6:35 PM
I've been watching these trains' progress since they started running.  The eastbound run this week is having problems, it would appear, with only two units running (the third unit died, reportedly).  Still, every train so far has beaten its schedule handily.

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 4:52 PM

How much manpower and equiptment is it taking to transload off the train onto the trucks?

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 3:06 PM
    Not too bad....On train night, most product flows directly through the building into 41 refrigerated truck staging areas, going out to customers; the remainder goes into coolers until called out.
BC
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 2:24 PM

Great!

How are you doing getting the product onto the trucks and out of the gate?

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 17, 2006 12:00 PM
    Why thank you gentlemen!!
Still beating a few of the bugs out, but yes, unit train has been arriving anywhere form 30 to 50 hrs ahead of schedule and we are unloading it in under 24hrs;  And yes, ARMN 111110 is in one set.  3 of the UP GEVO's arrive here and dwell for the 24hrs, the first train came across w/5 dropping 2 in Chicago, subsequents have had 4 I believe.
Cheers,
B Collins
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 3:06 PM

Congratulations are in order.

A toast!

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: near Chicago
  • 937 posts
Posted by Chris30 on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 12:39 PM

A couple of press releases from the Railex website regarding the first train:

http://www.railexusa.com/pressroom.php?id=51&article=Press

 

http://www.railexusa.com/pressroom.php?id=52

 

CC

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: near Chicago
  • 937 posts
Posted by Chris30 on Tuesday, October 24, 2006 12:09 PM

Quote by CShaveRR:

The train left Wallula on the 19th.  It's due in Proviso this evening, but could make it before dark (that's moving!).  Five GEVOs for power, 55 cars.  I might report again after I see it.

Oh--the correct symbol is ZWASKP (SK=Selkirk).

Quote by me (CC) from 6/8/06:

Ok, just for fun, I'll take a shot at the UP symbol for this new unit train. The new refer cars are good for 70mph? Interesting. Then again, if you're trying to get from Washington to New York in five days those cars better move!

ZWASKP (Z=high priority, WA=Wallula, WA or Washington, SK=Selkirk, NY, P=perishable)

I'm going to take a guess and say the train wasn't delivered immediately because it was the first train and there might have been some kind of special dedication / grand opening.

How many yellow or red lights do you think that this train had?? I'm going to say not many and none.

CC

  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Monday, October 23, 2006 9:34 AM

If you can trace cars on CSX, use ARMN 111110 as an example. 

Edit:  I just tried the CSX touch-trace number, and it shows this car as having arrived in Schenectady last night, but not scheduled to be placed at the industry before tomorrow.  What, I wonder, is with that?

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • 4,371 posts
Posted by greyhounds on Sunday, October 22, 2006 10:19 PM
Does anyone know where it's at now?
"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 21, 2006 8:45 PM
Maybe Albany can record it on a digital camcorder and upload it somewhere.
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, October 21, 2006 7:38 PM

It got by me, darn it!  Would have been nice with those newer GEVOs (five of them!) on the point.  Anyway, I hope CSX has it by now, and doesn't drop the ball.

(I missed it an hour ago--it's now only an hour and a half before it was expected!)

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:48 PM
 greyhounds wrote:
 Safety Valve wrote:
 greyhounds wrote:

You know, there's not a damn reason in the world that this train can't pick up potatoes in Idaho along the way or carry Container/TOFC shipments of produce.

 

Hmm.

I think it's time that kills such flexibility.

But.. if you could have area railroads GET the loads and set it out for pickup along the way....

Well, my idea would be to have an Idaho "assembly center", kind of a distribution center in reverse.  That's what they're doing in Washington state.  Use the trucks for what they do best.   Pick up and aggregate the loads.  Then load the carboxes at the assembly center.

Ideally, you'd do it at a crew change point where a switch or local crew would be on duty to put the potato loads on the back of the train.  That way you wouldn't add an extra stop and would have more people than just the conductor to work on the ground.

My guess - about 15 minutes extra time.

I think this could and should be expanded to move beef from Amarillo and western Kansas, chicken from Arkansas, etc.  This is one of the most exciting developments in railroading since the advent of stack trains.

 

 

Do it from Liberal, Dumas, Garden City, Fort Collins and have regional truckers take it to ... perhaps Salinas Kansas or Emporia and reload onto the train. That way they dont have to endure the long waits or really critical shipping.

Part of the problem is the Meat Triangle is both East bound and Westbound. (Sound and North too)

Chicken from Arkansas wont merit the additional rail traffic. Fayetteville and Russelville is already "Maxed out" on trucks and there are other processing plants in the Ozarks that will be faced with REALLY steep terrain that matches or bests Saluda in engineering problems.

Now if we can get the Produce out of Salinas, Nursery out of Portland, Perishables out of Yuma, Nogales and Eagle Pass then we will have the beginnings of a good rail network.

A bonus would be loading railcars in secure areas with Customs right inside the facility to pre-screen the trains for contrabrand, illegals and other problems that routinely get put on the unwary truckers.

Unloading these trains in places like Scranton, Harrisburg, Baltimore, Binghampton and points close to the major metro areas like what is happening in Albany will support trucking in high intensity.

Maybe this will cool it on the tight scheduling and problems with long haul burn out and make the drivers more useful in time-producting loaded and rolling with less critical items across the USA.

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • 4,371 posts
Posted by greyhounds on Saturday, October 21, 2006 5:40 PM
 Safety Valve wrote:
 greyhounds wrote:

You know, there's not a damn reason in the world that this train can't pick up potatoes in Idaho along the way or carry Container/TOFC shipments of produce.

 

Hmm.

I think it's time that kills such flexibility.

But.. if you could have area railroads GET the loads and set it out for pickup along the way....

Well, my idea would be to have an Idaho "assembly center", kind of a distribution center in reverse.  That's what they're doing in Washington state.  Use the trucks for what they do best.   Pick up and aggregate the loads.  Then load the carboxes at the assembly center.

Ideally, you'd do it at a crew change point where a switch or local crew would be on duty to put the potato loads on the back of the train.  That way you wouldn't add an extra stop and would have more people than just the conductor to work on the ground.

My guess - about 15 minutes extra time.

I think this could and should be expanded to move beef from Amarillo and western Kansas, chicken from Arkansas, etc.  This is one of the most exciting developments in railroading since the advent of stack trains.

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: Lombard (west of Chicago), Illinois
  • 13,681 posts
Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, October 21, 2006 4:57 PM

The train left Wallula on the 19th.  It's due in Proviso this evening, but could make it before dark (that's moving!).  Five GEVOs for power, 55 cars.  I might report again after I see it.

Oh--the correct symbol is ZWASKP (SK=Selkirk).

Carl

Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)

CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 13, 2006 7:52 AM
 greyhounds wrote:

 MP173 wrote:
Safety valve:

Thanks for the lesson.  I worked in trucking for 13 years.  My concern with the early picture was the nature it was being loaded.  The second picture by Chris clearly shows the skids of apples are being doubled.  So, high utilization of equipment is being realized.

Anyone have any idea of the number of skids (pallets) one of these boxcars will hold? 

Thanks,

ed

Well, if you're just asking for an "Idea"...

It's a 64 foot car, but you need to reduce the interior length for the refrigeration thingies.  So if we assume a 58' interior length and 48" x 40 " pallets turned so the 48" length is side to side; if we assume all that, then we get 34 pallets on the floor and 34 on the second "deck".  That B 68 pallets.

They might have to reduce that to ensure air flow around the perishable product.

You know, there's not a damn reason in the world that this train can't pick up potatoes in Idaho along the way or carry Container/TOFC shipments of produce.

 

Hmm.

I think it's time that kills such flexibility.

But.. if you could have area railroads GET the loads and set it out for pickup along the way....

  • Member since
    August 2003
  • From: Antioch, IL
  • 4,371 posts
Posted by greyhounds on Thursday, October 12, 2006 11:42 PM

 MP173 wrote:
Safety valve:

Thanks for the lesson.  I worked in trucking for 13 years.  My concern with the early picture was the nature it was being loaded.  The second picture by Chris clearly shows the skids of apples are being doubled.  So, high utilization of equipment is being realized.

Anyone have any idea of the number of skids (pallets) one of these boxcars will hold? 

Thanks,

ed

Well, if you're just asking for an "Idea"...

It's a 64 foot car, but you need to reduce the interior length for the refrigeration thingies.  So if we assume a 58' interior length and 48" x 40 " pallets turned so the 48" length is side to side; if we assume all that, then we get 34 pallets on the floor and 34 on the second "deck".  That B 68 pallets.

They might have to reduce that to ensure air flow around the perishable product.

You know, there's not a damn reason in the world that this train can't pick up potatoes in Idaho along the way or carry Container/TOFC shipments of produce.

 

"By many measures, the U.S. freight rail system is the safest, most efficient and cost effective in the world." - Federal Railroad Administration, October, 2009. I'm just your average, everyday, uncivilized howling "anti-government" critic of mass government expenditures for "High Speed Rail" in the US. And I'm gosh darn proud of that.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 12, 2006 10:30 PM
 Chris30 wrote:

According to the website www.railexusa.com the Washington facility is already open and shipping individual cars until the New York facility is ready to accept unit trains. I read that one of the reasons the Washington facility is open first is to test/train the workers on loading the cars. As long as we're talking about loading, here's a nother picture of a car being loading at the Washington facility (from the Railex website):

One other thing that I read in one of the press releases is that all cars will remain attached.

What I didn't find was any info regarding the date of the first unit train. Based on the latest pictures from the New York facility (9/21/06) it doesn't look like it's quite ready yet.

CC

NOW THIS IS A PURTY LOAD.

With the nice clean (Germ free?) floor and intact interior.

OUTSTANDING.

Not like the crappy boxes ive seen (And that includes shipping containers)

Looks like there is alot of product (Onions?) going into that box. I wonder what the tare and gross is for that railcar?

MP173, I feel as if I should edit my trucking lesson and just make it short. Im sorry if you felt offended or otherwise put off by my pathetic attempt at cargo schooling. I dont know of any other way to present a scenario regarding trailer or cargo usage.

My Boss presented me with three new people this morning and asked me to break em in to thier tasks. They listened to what I taught them reinforced by MY boss and his gospel and all was well. No one got injured or killed and we all got the work done.

Cheers.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • From: Valparaiso, In
  • 5,921 posts
Posted by MP173 on Thursday, October 12, 2006 8:34 PM
Safety valve:

Thanks for the lesson.  I worked in trucking for 13 years.  My concern with the early picture was the nature it was being loaded.  The second picture by Chris clearly shows the skids of apples are being doubled.  So, high utilization of equipment is being realized.

Anyone have any idea of the number of skids (pallets) one of these boxcars will hold? 

Thanks,

ed

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy