Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
According to the website www.railexusa.com the Washington facility is already open and shipping individual cars until the New York facility is ready to accept unit trains. I read that one of the reasons the Washington facility is open first is to test/train the workers on loading the cars. As long as we're talking about loading, here's a nother picture of a car being loading at the Washington facility (from the Railex website):
One other thing that I read in one of the press releases is that all cars will remain attached.
What I didn't find was any info regarding the date of the first unit train. Based on the latest pictures from the New York facility (9/21/06) it doesn't look like it's quite ready yet.
CC
MP173 wrote:I assume that is a photo from the loading of the first train.Will the loads be only one pallet on the floor? It appears there will be a considerable amount of wasted space. I dont know what the weight would be for these cars, but it seems as if a method of racking for double stacking might be considered.ed
There is not alot of wasted space.
The box is just that. Pallets carry weight. You can have two layers of Gold Bars one foot high on each pallet and leave ... 7 feet of vertical space empty because of the weight on the pallets.
Dusting off my pallet sheet in a dark corner of my memory reveals a pallet weight of 2000 pounds give or take a little bit. If you stack 30 pound bags of Cat Litter 5 to a layer you will have approx 150 pounds. Now you could stack em 10 high and will take up about...oh... **taps calculator... 7 feet in height leaving one foot or so to the ceiling clear. That pallet now weights 1500 pounds for 50x30 pound bags of cat litter.
Multiply 40 inches by 48 inches by 7 feet gives you cubic volume. Cat litter will weight out first before it cubes out the availible volume of the box.
Now if it was toilet paper you can fill that entire box and it wont weight anything.
Call it roughly 26 pallets in a 53' box trailer you will have about roughly one foot left to the back doors. The pallets will total about roughly 1400 pounds and the freight of cat litter will run you about 39,000 pounds; for a total of roughly 41,500 pounds.
Taking this one step further, there is a total volume of only so many cubes expressed in a box one foot long by one foot wide by one foot high. 53' Trailers like to cube out light stuff like toilet paper before it "Grosses out" (Weight) and 48' trailers like to haul heavy stuff.
The Bridge law for 18 wheelers (Class 8) still remains the same. 12,000 on the steer, 34,000 on the first tandem and 34,000 on the rear tandem subject to several state's kingpin distance laws.
One may cheat california out of thier righteous tickets by spec'ing a 10 foot spread axle under the trailer allowing you to carry 20K on each axle back there and making thier little revenue producing kingpin law irrevelant.
Now that we are loaded and ready to go, you must be rather confused by now.
Railroad Boxcars... those carry more cargo in both cube and weight. I bet you those pallets of food will come out to pretty numbers in weight, count and cubic capacity but still leave a little space in there hauling air.
There are many twists to the problem but three commandments are clear:
1- Shipper WILL sneak a few extra widgets into the box and bill accordinly. Heck stuff a extra few pallets in there and write it down on the bills expecially if they are broken pallets.
2- Anything extra like dunnage or icing etc.. will push you over gross weight. But that is ok, you will burn that excess off in fuel by the time you hit the scales anyhow.
3- Loaded or empty that box will generate a bill somewhere for it's move. You might not get paid the empty miles but someone will further up the revenue chain.
Dont worry about how much wasted space there is in that box.
Now.
Center of Gravity. (Oh joy! Graduate Course in cargo!)
You have a little pallet of gold bars a few inches off the floor. They weight alot. As long you dont stack it much more than one foot off that floor your vehicle will behave as if it was chained to the road.
If you stuff it full of cat litter and meow to boot until it bursts and barely squeeze those doors shut.. that rig will sway and teeter dangerously from side to side with every puff of wind threatening to roll over and show the dirty side to the sky. (Burying you and the family next to you.)
Safety Valve wrote:Looks like each one of those Reefers were broken and set apart at the dock.
Ouch! That may take valuable time to put back together again. Don't know why that's necessary, unless they have specific door spots and that short reefer had to be separated to spot the door where it should be.
Looks like a PCF built car snuck in there (behind the forklift).
"No soup for you!" - Yev Kassem (from Seinfeld)
rrandb wrote:What your trainer failed to realize is that each of those TOFC loads will provide jobs for not one but two drivers. One to deliver it to the railhead and one to deliver it to the customer. Both of them will probably be slepping at home tonight. Where would you rather be. Somewhere in America on the big road spending 3/4 of your life in a sleeper or at home sleeping in your sweet babies arms. I know where I would rather be tonight. The same concept applies to each load of produce that moves from road to rail.The local Teamsters I know make as much or more as they ever made OTR and can raise there kids and spend time with there wife if they choose to. I would think both railroaders and truckers will be cheering if this works.
Yep.
I never said I had a problem with getting the stuff to and from a ship or train, I just indicated that the mileage would not be there.
If any driver is smart today they would be in dedicated or local daycab work for home sleeping at night.
However, there will always be some who are quite content rolling the miles away because this is a big country and we need such people.
I'm hoping that the train comes through here on about October 15 (Sunday). It can't be too much later than that, I'd bet.
I tried tracing ARMN 111110, assuming that it's going to be in the first train. Shows it being placed at industry (no location) on September 2, but no scheduling information. I'll take it to work with me, as well as the projected identity of the train.
quote by bcrailex (B Collins):
OK gents....first train scheduled to roll 10/12 out of WA arriving in NY on 10/17.
Since today is October 11 is the first departure for this new service/train still on schedule for tomorrow? Or, has it been pushed back?
My God guys.....It looks like I'm getting a free focus group here.
edbenton wrote:One reason that drivers are more scare is due to the new HOS regs. The DOT in their infinate wisdom got rid of the off duty once you come on duty that is it for 14 hours then you take a 10 hour break. Now you can legally run 800 miles+ in a day however you are dead tired and strung out at the end of it. The HOS are what needs to redone go back to the old 70 hrs in 8 days the drivers know how to run that way but give them a 36 hour reset off for 36 straight a fresh 70 is there. That right there would bring alot of drivers back into the industry and help with the shortage. I know I would have left as soon as the new 14-10 came out. that is way to unsafe.
The DOT will never be able to regulate trucking with the obselete HOS. One morning person's 14 hour work day driving a Million dollar McKesson Medicine load is not the same as another's prospect of lumping 48,000 pounds of widgets in a overheated trailer while expecting to have to deliever 700 miles away by the next morning.
The last time I was inside a truckstop revealed a place of stress and fear. Not a refuge of light, food and fellowship... no one has time for that anymore. Im glad I got out when I did.
I do remember the first time I saw a container train carrying two truckloads on every car across the country at 70mph... my trainer said to me, that.. is the future and does NOT include you and me on the big road.
Safety Valve wrote: I guess Nogales Green produce and Yuma Az Lemons etc are not covered? Nursery Trees and plants from Oregon is extremely hot going west and some Flowers running west from Delaware is pretty demanding too.
I guess Nogales Green produce and Yuma Az Lemons etc are not covered?
Nursery Trees and plants from Oregon is extremely hot going west and some Flowers running west from Delaware is pretty demanding too.
If a certain commodity was not shipped by rail, I did not include it. Certainly not everything was covered. They did not list the truckloads for oranges and pears, and possibly others.
Here are the numbers for produce shipped by rail from http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/FV20060919Ddaily_move.pdf.
I noticed that when I copied it from Excel, the formatting made the column titles difficult to read.
Column 1 - Mode (T - Truck, T EX - Truck (Export), P - Piggyback, R - Rail)
Column 2 - 40,000 lb as of 09/13 for 2006
Column 3 - 40,000 lb as of 09/13 for 2005
Column 4 - 2006 percentage of 2005
greyhounds wrote: Safety Valve should be teaching logistics in a graduate school of business. I'm serious. He knows how freight moves and he can sure put it across.
Safety Valve should be teaching logistics in a graduate school of business. I'm serious.
He knows how freight moves and he can sure put it across.
Aww, dont mind me. I lay it on my dispatchers who constantly threatened firing if I was late. They in turn were in the steam because of promises made by and to brokers and all were run into the ground by angry shippers and recievers who held the entire trucking company's account at risk if the load arrived late.
And everything inside the distribution and dock was treated with the utmost slowness and behind yesterday's commitments.
I think if the UP railroad can treat perishables as a regular freight train, it's probably because they are only one railroad and hard to replace with another railroad that will provide faster service to the customer who is chained to his siding.
It's much easier to fire trucking companies and have another deliver it earlier. But it's the driver that gets it down here at the bottom of the mountain.
The one thing I see here is the train being discussed here has it covered on both ends and it looks like they can beat trucking's time and do it probably with alot of positive things moving all of that perishable west to east.
Maybe the days of perishable trains running on top priority schedules given to unit coal trains are here again.
But what do I know? I just play with trains because it's fun!
See ya next time.
ericsp wrote: greyhounds wrote: ericsp wrote: greyhounds wrote:It's being restored. According to the USDA these are the 107 TOFC loads of FF&V that the railroads rolled out of California on September 14th. It's about 1/10th of what the trucks hauled, but it's a start. APPLES 1 BROCCOLI 8 CANTALOUPS 8 CARROTS 10 CAULIFLOWER 3 CELERY 9 GRAPEFRUIT 2 GRAPES 7 GRAPES-MIXED JUICE 5 HONEYDEWS 2 LEMONS 3 LETTUCE-ICEBERG 10 LETTUCE-ROMAINE 5 ONIONS DRY 4 ORANGES 16 PEPPERS 3 SWEET POTATOES 4 TOMATOES 5 WATERMELONS, SEEDLESS 2 107 http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/wa_fv568.txt I was looking at some of those statistics and noticed that for most commodities, the carloads shipped by rail is down from the same time last year for almost all commodities. The page I bookmarked last night (http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/FV20060831Ddaily_move.pdf) has Access Denied when I tried to go to it today. Below is another page I pulled up. http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/CA_FV400.TXT Search Results Are the truckoads down too? I think railcar is a non-starter for most fresh fruits and vegeables. They're very time sensative and TOFC beats carload every time in transit time. But this train is focused on some perishable commodities out of Washington State that aren't that time sensative. It's primarily apples out of there. (with pears and onions) Washington State produces over half the apples consumed in the US and, on average, every American eats around 22 pounds of apples a year. Apples come out of harvest and go into controlled atmosphere storage. Then they are shipped as needed. You can store an apple but you can't store a head of lettuce. So moving a few days of that storage into railcar transit and into an eastern distribution center doesn't loose that much. And you gain something in return. An apple in that eastern DC can be delivered the next day to a customer. Can't do that from Washington. This train has a really good shot at working. But there is no certainty. The UP fell on its *** trying to haul expidited UPS. Hopefully, they've learned. And TOFC works just fine for perishable transport. Been there, done that, want to do it again. So if you live in the Northeast, go buy some fresh apples and help this whole thing out. Me, I'm going to wave at the engineer. Some truckloads were down but many commodities that had less railcar shipments this year than at the same time last year had as many or more truckloads than last year. The two exceptions I am excited about are grapefruits and oranges out of Central California. It seems like potatos were also up, but many commodities were down. I was also surprised to see that NM ships railcars of potatos. In one of the threads, I remember someone who works for UP in the Midwest (not Carl, and obviously I cannot verify that the poster does work for UP) saying that the Express Lane trains are being treated like a regular freight. I wonder if that is the cause for the lower shipments this year. Has anyone heard what the Express Lane's on time performance is this year? I hope the UP and BNSF do increase their parishable business. I would really like to see more steel wheeled reefers and less rubber wheeled ones, espicially since California has a different speed limit for trucks than for cars, which makes driving on the highways around here misable. Is this thread making anyone else hungry?
greyhounds wrote: ericsp wrote: greyhounds wrote:It's being restored. According to the USDA these are the 107 TOFC loads of FF&V that the railroads rolled out of California on September 14th. It's about 1/10th of what the trucks hauled, but it's a start. APPLES 1 BROCCOLI 8 CANTALOUPS 8 CARROTS 10 CAULIFLOWER 3 CELERY 9 GRAPEFRUIT 2 GRAPES 7 GRAPES-MIXED JUICE 5 HONEYDEWS 2 LEMONS 3 LETTUCE-ICEBERG 10 LETTUCE-ROMAINE 5 ONIONS DRY 4 ORANGES 16 PEPPERS 3 SWEET POTATOES 4 TOMATOES 5 WATERMELONS, SEEDLESS 2 107 http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/wa_fv568.txt I was looking at some of those statistics and noticed that for most commodities, the carloads shipped by rail is down from the same time last year for almost all commodities. The page I bookmarked last night (http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/FV20060831Ddaily_move.pdf) has Access Denied when I tried to go to it today. Below is another page I pulled up. http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/CA_FV400.TXT Search Results Are the truckoads down too? I think railcar is a non-starter for most fresh fruits and vegeables. They're very time sensative and TOFC beats carload every time in transit time. But this train is focused on some perishable commodities out of Washington State that aren't that time sensative. It's primarily apples out of there. (with pears and onions) Washington State produces over half the apples consumed in the US and, on average, every American eats around 22 pounds of apples a year. Apples come out of harvest and go into controlled atmosphere storage. Then they are shipped as needed. You can store an apple but you can't store a head of lettuce. So moving a few days of that storage into railcar transit and into an eastern distribution center doesn't loose that much. And you gain something in return. An apple in that eastern DC can be delivered the next day to a customer. Can't do that from Washington. This train has a really good shot at working. But there is no certainty. The UP fell on its *** trying to haul expidited UPS. Hopefully, they've learned. And TOFC works just fine for perishable transport. Been there, done that, want to do it again. So if you live in the Northeast, go buy some fresh apples and help this whole thing out. Me, I'm going to wave at the engineer.
ericsp wrote: greyhounds wrote:It's being restored. According to the USDA these are the 107 TOFC loads of FF&V that the railroads rolled out of California on September 14th. It's about 1/10th of what the trucks hauled, but it's a start. APPLES 1 BROCCOLI 8 CANTALOUPS 8 CARROTS 10 CAULIFLOWER 3 CELERY 9 GRAPEFRUIT 2 GRAPES 7 GRAPES-MIXED JUICE 5 HONEYDEWS 2 LEMONS 3 LETTUCE-ICEBERG 10 LETTUCE-ROMAINE 5 ONIONS DRY 4 ORANGES 16 PEPPERS 3 SWEET POTATOES 4 TOMATOES 5 WATERMELONS, SEEDLESS 2 107 http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/wa_fv568.txt I was looking at some of those statistics and noticed that for most commodities, the carloads shipped by rail is down from the same time last year for almost all commodities. The page I bookmarked last night (http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/FV20060831Ddaily_move.pdf) has Access Denied when I tried to go to it today. Below is another page I pulled up. http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/CA_FV400.TXT Search Results
greyhounds wrote:It's being restored. According to the USDA these are the 107 TOFC loads of FF&V that the railroads rolled out of California on September 14th. It's about 1/10th of what the trucks hauled, but it's a start. APPLES 1 BROCCOLI 8 CANTALOUPS 8 CARROTS 10 CAULIFLOWER 3 CELERY 9 GRAPEFRUIT 2 GRAPES 7 GRAPES-MIXED JUICE 5 HONEYDEWS 2 LEMONS 3 LETTUCE-ICEBERG 10 LETTUCE-ROMAINE 5 ONIONS DRY 4 ORANGES 16 PEPPERS 3 SWEET POTATOES 4 TOMATOES 5 WATERMELONS, SEEDLESS 2 107 http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/wa_fv568.txt
http://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/wa_fv568.txt
I was looking at some of those statistics and noticed that for most commodities, the carloads shipped by rail is down from the same time last year for almost all commodities. The page I bookmarked last night (http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/FV20060831Ddaily_move.pdf) has Access Denied when I tried to go to it today. Below is another page I pulled up.
http://marketnews.usda.gov/gear/docexch/download/CA_FV400.TXT
Search Results
Are the truckoads down too?
I think railcar is a non-starter for most fresh fruits and vegeables. They're very time sensative and TOFC beats carload every time in transit time.
But this train is focused on some perishable commodities out of Washington State that aren't that time sensative. It's primarily apples out of there. (with pears and onions) Washington State produces over half the apples consumed in the US and, on average, every American eats around 22 pounds of apples a year.
Apples come out of harvest and go into controlled atmosphere storage. Then they are shipped as needed. You can store an apple but you can't store a head of lettuce.
So moving a few days of that storage into railcar transit and into an eastern distribution center doesn't loose that much. And you gain something in return. An apple in that eastern DC can be delivered the next day to a customer. Can't do that from Washington.
This train has a really good shot at working. But there is no certainty. The UP fell on its *** trying to haul expidited UPS. Hopefully, they've learned.
And TOFC works just fine for perishable transport. Been there, done that, want to do it again.
So if you live in the Northeast, go buy some fresh apples and help this whole thing out. Me, I'm going to wave at the engineer.
Some truckloads were down but many commodities that had less railcar shipments this year than at the same time last year had as many or more truckloads than last year. The two exceptions I am excited about are grapefruits and oranges out of Central California. It seems like potatos were also up, but many commodities were down. I was also surprised to see that NM ships railcars of potatos.
In one of the threads, I remember someone who works for UP in the Midwest (not Carl, and obviously I cannot verify that the poster does work for UP) saying that the Express Lane trains are being treated like a regular freight. I wonder if that is the cause for the lower shipments this year. Has anyone heard what the Express Lane's on time performance is this year?
I hope the UP and BNSF do increase their parishable business. I would really like to see more steel wheeled reefers and less rubber wheeled ones, espicially since California has a different speed limit for trucks than for cars, which makes driving on the highways around here misable.
Is this thread making anyone else hungry?
Luckly Killjoy KAILFORNIA speed limits dont extend to the rest of the USA.
There
Are the truckoads down too? I just took a look at the lattest USDA report:
http://www.ams.usda.gov/fv/mncs/daily_movement.pdf#search=%22usda%20%22daily%20movement%20report%22%22
Its agriculture. It goes up and down. This year is down from last year. For everyone. The "Big Kahuna" is Iceberg Lettuce. (God, who knew spinach could kill you). Last year = 41,338 total Iceberg loads. This year = 36,908 total loads. This is a "Bad Year" for lettuce and other perishable loads. But the railroads held their own. Last year = 1,868 loads. This year = 1,815 loads. It's down, but in the face of that production decline, it's a good job on the railroads' part.
Growin' Growin' Growin', just keep those trainloads Growin'. Dont' try to understand 'em (that's the marketing deparment's job), just load, haul and place 'em, and soon we'll be livin' high and wide.
Load 'em up, couple 'em up, move 'em out. RAILROAD!.
You have satellites now watching reefers on trailers and railroads. If there is a temp or fuel problem a local Carrier or similar can be alerted and set out to meet the "Sick" unit either trackside or in the next facility while the load is in transit.
The so called Free Labor off the drivers may not last too much longer as the singles flee the scene and teams migrate to constant 24/7 of other cargo that keeps them loaded and rolling.
The "Train" could be a successful venture the way it's planned. My comments were
aimed at a TOFC segment replaceing OTR. Sorry for the confusion.
The "rails" gave up the temperature controlled TOFC business as it wasn't cost effective.
The labor costs were too high. The OTR segment has the free labor (Drivers) to detect and correct
any problems.
RABEL wrote: I've seen solid business plans fail the investors. There's a reason why trucking has the 90% share of shipments,it's more reliable,efficient and cheaper. There's more involved in shipping produce than coal, I doubt the rails are willing to increase the manpower or infrastructure to what could be a low profit margin. The cost of replacing Temperature controlled shipments is another factor. The recievers are "picky" when it comes to produce.
I've seen solid business plans fail the investors.
There's a reason why trucking has the 90% share of shipments,it's more reliable,efficient
and cheaper. There's more involved in shipping produce than coal, I doubt the rails are willing to increase the manpower or infrastructure to what could be a low profit margin.
The cost of replacing Temperature controlled shipments is another factor. The recievers are
"picky" when it comes to produce.
You forgot one thing.
Truck Drivers must endure waiting. Ive waited up to 70 hours or more 20 feet from the dock as they literally gathered and blast chilled my specific load out of the fields.
Trains only need to present the reefers to load and be on time cross country. They have good resources and need not risk safety from tired trucker trying to get to Hunts Point NY in 70 hours after waiting 70. That means no sleep for 5 days to get it there on time.
Yes you have teams to run 24/7 (Been there done that) but you cannot get around the waiting. The waiting is uptime that is spent awake and earning no pay. I think weekly 40-60 hours is spent at the dock waiting for the produce to load.
Hurry up and wait LOL.
Trains dont wait. They are gone and when thier crew hogs out on the law, another crew is sent out.
Even the best trailers fail from time to time. Ive sat on top of landfills dumping 45,000 pounds of now stinking rotted produce that just costed someone alot of cash.
I look forward to the results of this run when it completes successfully.
If I remember correctly, these will be 56-car trains.
Rabel, it sounds to me like the railroads aren't going to be responsible for any infrastructure, save for the connecting switches (and the cars, which already exist). And temperature control of the shipments, with remote detection (and often correction) of the problems, is certainly far removed from when railroads lost or gave up this business.
RABEL wrote: I am with g'hound, this is huge. Huge only if the attempt succeeds. So far all I've seen is speculation and wishful thinking. Things always look good on paper being a fact. On time performance being a huge drawback in the endeaver of Rail vs Trucking being widespread concerning produce.
I am with g'hound, this is huge.
Huge only if the attempt succeeds. So far all I've seen is speculation and wishful thinking.
Things always look good on paper being a fact. On time performance being a huge drawback
in the endeaver of Rail vs Trucking being widespread concerning produce.
Absolutely right! You gotta' make it happen. But it's more than speculation and wishful thinking. It's a solid business plan that has attracted the necessary investment - and people aren't throwing their money away. The railroads can handle fresh fruits and vegetables. Asinine Federal economic regulation almost totally drove them out of the business. Once a business structure like that is destroyed, it takes time and effort to restore.
It's being restored. According to the USDA these are the 107 TOFC loads of FF&V that the railroads rolled out of California on September 14th. It's about 1/10th of what the trucks hauled, but it's a start.
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