New cross country perishable train

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Safety Valve

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcrailex

completely separate...no stops...crew change only in chicago...talk is to allow UP motive pwr to go all the way to S Schenectady....but you are correct QNPSKP goes into Selkirk where it is humped. Those are conventional perishable cars. Also no excess height cars can continue on into Boston, although not sure about Hunt's Point.

Hunts Point is truck only.

If they get railcars into Hunts I'll eat my steering wheel. I spent some time at Hunts.

I dont think Albany is land locked. There is a river that runs to the sea in that area. Surely it can carry navigatible river traffic?

I think Albany will be doing alot of Grand Union business in that area, I used to run Eggs out of Maryland into that area and Butter; spices from Baltimore into that part of the NY state.

One of the things about the Northeast, they consume everything. It's hard to get anything out of there.

Isn't this Hunts Point?
http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.812228,-73.878357&spn=0.002221,0.005885&t=h&om=1

[greyhounds]

Railroads can haul lettuce.

www.ams.usda.gov/fv/mncs/shipsumm05.pdf

They did about 4,900 TOFC loads last year. See page 10.

It's a small fraction of what moved by truck, but it moved.

Railroads are not going to win a cross country race with a team of drivers. It's going to be a trade off between one less day of shelf life on the lettuce and the rate savings by rail.

[Anonymous]

Me thinks the Produce like Lettuce and greens need to stay with the OTR team drivers, there is just too much waiting going on at the dock for these as they are literally picked and cooled to order.

Ive been sent one too many times to a place called Americold south of Salinas near the coast by hot and lathered desperate dispatchers only to be told on arrival that I must wait. That time I waited 44 hours straight in front of the dock 20 feet from the shippers window blowing fumes that a way watching videos and fixing food onboard.

Naw, stick with the Apples only dont be late, I think Safeway in Atlanta cries bloody murder if you are 10 seconds later than 7 am at the dock with papers in hand on apples.

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Safety Valve



Well, when that train pulls into Albany with's cornicopia (Spelling) the food is probably going to end up being broken down into alot of different orders as required. With saying 4 trucks to take away one Reefer load and 55 Reefers to unload ye are going to need around 200 trucks ready or more to fill your orders the day you unload that train.

Or am I spinning myself out on your operation in Albany?

As long as Railex is dealing with commodities such as apples, the loads won't have to move out the same day as arrival. The apples are generally placed in storage after harvest anyway. (frozen patatoes will work too.)

The shipper can sell out of the Railex facility and promise next day delivery on Washington apples instead of selling out of a storage facility 3,000 miles away.

But if and when they get into something like lettuce, that stuff is going to have to be levitated from train to truck and delivered PDQ.

TOFC might make more sense for more time sensative commodities such as lettuce. It could ride the same train and be ramped de-ramped at the same facilities.

[rrandb]

Yes, 220 trucks in local or at best regional service not coast to coast. Might be nice to see your gal (or guy if your a female driver) more often. Maybe not.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

QUOTE: Originally posted by Safety Valve

There was a comment regarding 4 truck loads in each rail car.

Alot of the work is LCL. So a Diner in Jersey might ask for 4 pallets of Apples for the week. (Apple Pies, apple sauce, apple salad etc... mmmmm)

2000 pounds per pallet (Not actual weight but sometimes lighter or heavier) 8,000 pounds will fit in about 8 feet worth of a Reefer Rail Car's or truck deck. You probably have another oh... 40-45 more feet worth of deck to load for any number of Jersey customers.

This will be dedicated unit trains from dedicated perishable terminal to terminal. LCL should not be an issue. At 4 truckloads per car times 55 cars we should see many reefer vans available to haul those LCL which are illsuited to rail traffic.[2c]

Well, when that train pulls into Albany with's cornicopia (Spelling) the food is probably going to end up being broken down into alot of different orders as required. With saying 4 trucks to take away one Reefer load and 55 Reefers to unload ye are going to need around 200 trucks ready or more to fill your orders the day you unload that train.

Or am I spinning myself out on your operation in Albany?

[Anonymous]

Not a pester at all...once again thanks for all the kind words. It's nice to see the interest and support out there. Also great to see you guys kick it around amongst eachother like a RR thinktank. As an avid model RR guy as well, this was a job opportunity I couldn't pass up after 20+ years in produce packing in Boston. So I'm just as excited about it, both for myself and RR in general.
Bill

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Safety Valve

There was a comment regarding 4 truck loads in each rail car.

Alot of the work is LCL. So a Diner in Jersey might ask for 4 pallets of Apples for the week. (Apple Pies, apple sauce, apple salad etc... mmmmm)

2000 pounds per pallet (Not actual weight but sometimes lighter or heavier) 8,000 pounds will fit in about 8 feet worth of a Reefer Rail Car's or truck deck. You probably have another oh... 40-45 more feet worth of deck to load for any number of Jersey customers.

This will be dedicated unit trains from dedicated perishable terminal to terminal. LCL should not be an issue. At 4 truckloads per car times 55 cars we should see many reefer vans available to haul those LCL which are illsuited to rail traffic.[2c]

[CShaveRR]

UP's symbol will probably contain new letter combinations for both origin and destination (don't eliminate anything logical from consideration because it's already in use). I doubt that it will just be considered a Hinkle-to-Selkirk train. Whether it begins with a "Q" (priority manifest) or "O" (other unit train) remains to be seen. It will probably end with a "P", denoting the perishables it's hauling.

The new reefers ought to be OK for 70-mph operation on UP, loaded or empty. The current QNPSKP often carries cars that slow it down to 50. Chris, I haven't looked at this train too much lately, but believe that it still carries one block in addition to the Selkirk block, which is set off at Proviso for forwarding (I think they're CN cars, or something like that); the Selkirks from the hump are also added. I suspect that this will still happen after the new train is running, but the train may lose the "P" from its designation.

[rrandb]

Thanks again Bill . It is a real pleasure to have you on board. I hope we haven't pestered you to the point that you won't stay. GOOD LUCK There are many more rooting for you than just your suppliers and customers. [2c]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bcrailex

completely separate...no stops...crew change only in chicago...talk is to allow UP motive pwr to go all the way to S Schenectady....but you are correct QNPSKP goes into Selkirk where it is humped. Those are conventional perishable cars. Also no excess height cars can continue on into Boston, although not sure about Hunt's Point.

Hunts Point is truck only.

If they get railcars into Hunts I'll eat my steering wheel. I spent some time at Hunts.

I dont think Albany is land locked. There is a river that runs to the sea in that area. Surely it can carry navigatible river traffic?

I think Albany will be doing alot of Grand Union business in that area, I used to run Eggs out of Maryland into that area and Butter; spices from Baltimore into that part of the NY state.

One of the things about the Northeast, they consume everything. It's hard to get anything out of there.

[Anonymous]

Negative....Look for 1st train latter half of Sept...no Idea on symbology just yet...Ops mtg today in Omaha w/UP...will find out....
B

[Chris30]

Thanks Bill. I'll give you the bonus questions now. Is the unit train currently operating? And do you have any idea what the UP symbol for this train is?

CC

[Anonymous]

completely separate...no stops...crew change only in chicago...talk is to allow UP motive pwr to go all the way to S Schenectady....but you are correct QNPSKP goes into Selkirk where it is humped. Those are conventional perishable cars. Also no excess height cars can continue on into Boston, although not sure about Hunt's Point.

[Chris30]

The UP has been running perishable trains from the west coast to N Platte, NE and resorting the cars for four(?) midwest/east coast destinations for several years now. The UP perishable freight that eventually ends up at Albany, NY (Selkirk Yard) is QNPSKP (N Platte-Selkirk perishable). Is this new business going to be a seperate unit train directly from Washington to New York? Or, will the 55 cars go to N Platte and then be added to QNPSKP? If the 55 cars were added to QNPSKP then it probably would be a true perisable freight. (If I'm correct, QNPSKP gets filled out with non-perisable freight for Chicago & the northeast that gets switched in/out at Proviso Yard.)

CC

[Anonymous]

Wow...you guys know your stuff...this is fun...although it is like having 6 people asking questions at the same time to someone who would much prefer to speak than type.
A few points:
Yes, Albany is landlocked..LOL...however it is by design...think about it geographically, it is better to stop there both from a real estate value perspective as well as a location point. Albany is 3 hrs from NYC, 3hrs from Boston, 3 hrs from Montreal, 4 hrs from Philly, etc etc etc. You have only to look at our neighbors in the park to see that is a pivotal area: Fedex & Price Chopper. Nearby Hannaford, C&S etc etc. A truck being loaded directly from the train overnight can reach these DCs or a terminal mkt with 3-4 hrs making early morning delivery every time. AND custom loaded with multiple sizes OR differnt customers as well. Full car prices but custom truck loads, any receiver would love that. Individual store del are possible, but we are a platform much better suited to hit DCs and Terminal mkts.
Silk train was interesting, I'd never heard of that. But the difference between this operation and a 40/50/s era 36ft ice bunker reefer car express train are
significant to say the least.
These reefer cars are brand new; Problems should not be an issue; However they are satellite CONTROLLED which means if we DO encounter a problem, it will be found very quickly and even if no service is avail, simply shutting the unit off and letting it rely on it's precool and insulation should be sufficient for such a short trip.
Perhaps a tour of the facility will be in order once we are operating! If you guys can all get together I'd be happy to show you around.
Regards,
Bill

[Anonymous]

There was a comment regarding 4 truck loads in each rail car.

Alot of the work is LCL. So a Diner in Jersey might ask for 4 pallets of Apples for the week. (Apple Pies, apple sauce, apple salad etc... mmmmm)

2000 pounds per pallet (Not actual weight but sometimes lighter or heavier) 8,000 pounds will fit in about 8 feet worth of a Reefer Rail Car's or truck deck. You probably have another oh... 40-45 more feet worth of deck to load for any number of Jersey customers.

Ive had up to 15-24 customers on a single trailer in LCL service during the Nursery battle push and upwards of 15 or more during some of the produce pushes east.

The most intense form of LCL I know of is direct delivery to restraunts (Spelling?) such as Red Lobsters from distribution centers and under control of corperations such as Darden who controls the consuming facilities. You cannot do that on rail.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrandb

QUOTE: [i]

Greyhounds,


Question: Is there anyone out there who thinks that box of cherries is going to get from the orchard to NYC just as fast as the over the road truckers, or at the same cost to the grower/marketer? By that time, the over the road truckers will have handled two cross country trips between existing facilities, probably with backhaul to boot, which totally negates rail's efficiency advantage since the truckers will have hauled just as much freight in that time period as the rail cars.

I am a little fuzzy on the math here. How is that two truckers (team drivers) who haul two truckloads in ten days at twice the cost and half the amount of freight (4 truckloads per freight car) are more cost effective and competitive than the railroad. Besides the fact if they are driving a SAT linked tractor there dispatcher could shut them down for either speed or hours violations. To even have a prayer of 2 West Coast turnarounds in ten days you better be able to to drop and pick trailers at both ends. One way will be deadheading. Throw in a back haul and they will back for more cherries in 7-8 days. Unless of course they're back hauling from the same warehouses. NOT This revival of a tried and true method of deliving fresh produce to the east coast by rail will be something to look forward to. [2c] As always ENJOY

A team will get from Yakima to Boston in about 3 days flat including day and night provided weather cooperates. Turn around time to the NW or west coast will likely be 3-4 days and yer ready to reload again if everything is forklift unload or drop and hook. Ive done it and also as a Single I can make a complete USA Turn around in less than 10 days but probably violate a number of HOS designed to save lives.

Thousands of truckers make the journey into the major cities north of DC and east of Pittsburgh each night, flowing in from all kinds of places around the USA. Those are the ones who feed the Northeast.

Rail service will have to really re-discover the old 40's and 50's facilites for transloading all over again. Imagine a 50 car train pulling into a distribution center and by noon the cargo is ready for the local trucks to the stores. You will need alot of precision, manpower, equiptment and workers with strong backs. It can be done. But it must be done maybe a short distance outside of the metro area itself of any major city.

Especially away from the Markets. Those are places where it is worth a driver's life to deliver a load on some nights.

The disptacher who shuts down a driver in the middle of Wyoming 100 miles from any suitable facility in a winter storm will be just the same as pulling the trigger. I will support some functions of the satellite but there are just somethings that MUST remain under the control of the driver. If the driver cannot or is not legally able to do the run, the problem must be found and solved because customers WILL find another carrier or put it on the rail.

I dont consider West Coast loads to be backhauls. Heck even a nice load of fresh Pallets made from Maple or Oak will be gold.

That box of Cherries will be taken care of just fine. I have hauled a few of these and they are usually under state control and are followed by paperwork that all but steals your soul.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mallman64

In response to the "cherry picker" comments, who is obviously in the trucking industry; let me see if I can give you a different perspective on the "womb to tomb" scenario. If the farmer in Washington State harvests his cherries and puts his 3 month window into his state-of-the-art coolers and then has his salesmen pound the phone for over the road truckers as in the past but most recently to no avail, those cherries just "hand around the coolers with no where to go for up to 7-10 days at times, depending on whether or not the reliable trucking industry feels like working their way up from Cal where the supply is better and less driving. Now 5 days go by and low and behold, here comes a 48 footer with an attitude!! He loads his truck with those beautiful bings, load locks himself in, and off to Boston he goes. He checks his unit and its 90 degrees outside but its a cool 36 degrees in his trailer. He goes down the road and has 5 days till his delivery. More chances than not the driver is getting 5-6 grand for the trip so on the second day he says what the f... and desides to go to his favorite truck-stop and cop some crystal meth!! Any trucker with any brains knows he can make the trip in 4 days so WHY NOT HAVE A LITTLE FUN! Couple of white-trash rest area "hoes" glass pipe and who needs to call in!!!! Meanwhile the cherries inside ain't feeling so good because the unit tripped and now the temperatures a rising faster than the blood pressure of our "California turn-around" driver. We all know the story from here. Driver misses delivery, brings unit back down to temp first, loses the temp recorder, retailer rejects load, and rather than transload through a temp controlled rail center and inspect and deliver cherries through a destination point on the eastern seaboard for "just in time delivery" you are telling me that we should rely on the present "highly efficient" trucking inddustry that takes up 90 percent of the day, looking for these past heroes of the highway. Good for the railroad for showing some steel!!! I'd rather be on a GPS refrig train the first day out of a cooler than a truck attitude the 7th day out of the same cooler, without the glass pipe!!!!

ENDQOUTE.

First off. Let me say this.

ANY driver caught smoking while on duty will be arrested, sent to jail and license is in danger.

A typical long haul reefer driver is a company man who expects to make .25 cents a mile not 5-6 thousand dollars. That money probably needs the lading to be signed for delivered and the paper work processed. It can take 2 weeks to get the 5-6 thousand.

Staying out of the interstate rest areas and keeping the left door shut and out of the truck stop is the way to protect yourself, your health, the truck and the load. If you cannot do any of this then I dont want you in a class 8 truck resposnisble for a great deal of equiptment, expensive cargo and service contracts.

Some of the things I concede to trucking as I have had some wild times, but nothing that will prevent me from sharing with the family. But the perception that truckers are smoking while on duty, seeking out infected (Sexually and probably physically -medically) people who prey on those who dont know any better and other activites designed to prevent safe, fast and accurate transport of cargo is unacceptable to me. Period.

That driver will find himself out of a job and probably in so much trouble it will take alot of time, effort and money to clear up. Something hard to come by when you are trying to make a living on the road.

Now that I have had my rant in response to this posting I gotta say that I support this train service from Washington. It's very hard to get into the Yakima and out again probably thru the Eastern Oregon especially in the dead of winter which happens to be Chain season during the harvest.

You tell me that this methadone smoked driver who is zoned out on his on world filled with pleasures and sickness is going to have the strength and the skills to bring a convoy of 100 trucks over the cabbage safely during a winter storm.

YEA RIGHT.

Put it on the train, each of those reefers can be tracked via GPS and monitored in real time for any mechanical or temperature problems.

I ran reefer for a number of years and they were pretty reliable. I had a unit go down on me at Grand Junction on a chilly 50 degree rainy night at midnight due in Denver at 7 the next morning. I got up and took it straight thru the now 40 degree rain into denver because 1- no repair shops other than Salt Lake or Denver and 2- the value of the load was in excess of 100,000 and I will not be the one that loses it as a company driver.

The load was repaired in Denver with some Heroics by Carrier getting out of bed and to work way earlier than usual start time. And the delivery was made.

With that in mind, the Railroad is going to need an ability and manpower to respond to any number of reefer problems within 3 hours anywhere on the line. There are mobile repair units ready but I would expect nothing but the newest and the very best reefer cars for this job.

Some produce is just too hot time wise to meet the 124 hour service. But Apples and stuff like Potatoes are just fine.

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