British Railway Operations

[Simon Reed]

That's a little "reactionary", Tulyar15.

What is transported, on behalf of British Nuclear Fuels Limited and the Ministry of Defence, are spent uranium rods from power station or submarine reactors for reprocessing and safe disposal at the Sellafield plant in Cumbria (North West England).

Also transported to Sellafield from the docks at Barrow are spent rods from other countries, most notably Japan, which the UK Government has contracted to dispose of.

In very simplified terms the necessity for constitutional changes so that HM Gov. could tender for exceptionally lucrative overseas contracts was the reason for the restructuring of BNFL, which brought about the formation of DRS in the first place.

In practice, largely due to the foresight of the late Max Joule, DRS operates at arms length from BNFL.

This is a good thread from which I'm learning things and I've been a UK enthusiast for the last 35 years!

I'm publicity officer of the recently formed UK Alco Group, which aims to restore one of the 3 remaining Alco S1's exported to the UK to running order, so any Anglo-American railfan dialogue is good news to me.

A little more about the group is available on www.ukalcogroup.co.uk although we had a committee meeting on Saturday and aim to formally launch the group very soon.

E-mail me if you'd like to know more.

[Hugh Jampton]

errr,, the "bomb" traffic is a railway nickname for the nuclear flask traffic from the various powere stations to the reprocessing plant.. The only thing special about these trains is that they're not listed in the public timetables,, but they run at the same times so they're easy to track down.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

cogload: What is "bomb" traffic?

Thanks

DRS ship nuclear bombs for the Royal Navy from Plymouth to Sellafield.

[Murphy Siding]

Tulyar15: I got your E-mail about sending photos of some Briti***rains. Any chance you could post them on the forum for all to see?

Thanks

[Murphy Siding]

cogload: What is "bomb" traffic?

Thanks

[Anonymous]

indeed they ahve to obtain their paths like everybody else. However there is a certain amount of surety in there isn't there. Plus the "bomb" traffic has always had a special place......

[owlsroost]

P.S. the name of the town on the Isle of Wight is spelt 'Ryde'.

And although it's part of the national rail system, given that it runs 1938 vintage ex-London Underground trains the Ryde-Shanklin line almost qualifies as a tourist/preserved railway anyway [:)] - http://www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/stock/IsleOfWight.html

Tony

[daveklepper]

Appreciated the thorough answers. Yes, of course I meant the Isle of Wright. I did ride all the lines then operating there in 1962. Glad to know that the Welsh situation is similar to Scotland's, and I certianly enjoyed time spent in both areas.

[Hugh Jampton]

I don't necessarily agree with that. DRS have to obtain their paths the same way as everybody else,, there's no favoritism.

[owlsroost]

DRS (Direct Rail Services) is a subsidiary of BNFL (British Nuclear Fuels Limited) which is the state-owned nuclear fuel reprocessing company (HMG = Her Majesty's Government).

DRS started out just hauling nuclear flask/waste trains for BNFL, but has since branched out into general freight haulage for other customers.

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

cogload: Can you explain the last sentence of your post?



Thanks

[Anonymous]

and he died a broken man......

However the RAB stands as his testament.

Freight is not entirely "open" either. DRS: Prop: HMG via BNFL.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Isambard: Neat name for a screen name-especially on this thread !
[^]

I've been using Isambard as my forum name for several years, having learned about Brunel. You can imagine my reaction when I came across that railway carriage in the background of my photo URL!
[:)]

That railway carriage is a master of understatement, I would consider Isambard Kingdom Brunel to be one of the world's greatest engineers. The only problem was that Brunel's schemes tended to be expensive and his ideas tended to run ahead of the era's technology, a prime example being the liner "Great Eastern", which ate up several fortunes.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Isambard: Neat name for a screen name-especially on this thread !
[^]

I've been using Isambard as my forum name for several years, having learned about Brunel. You can imagine my reaction when I came across that railway carriage in the background of my photo URL!
[:)]

[Murphy Siding]

Isambard: Neat name for a screen name-especially on this thread !
[^]

[mhurley87f]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

Is railroading in Wales somewhat separately managed like Scotland? I know the Isle of Man is a self contained operation solely under the local government, with the electric line, the steam line, and the bus system essentially one management. What about the Isle of Rhyde?

As others have said, no it isn't, but since the budget for supporting rail services within Wales is to be devolved to the Welsh Assembly Government, there is an expectation that services can now be tailored more closely to the needs of travellers than the Rail Regulator's perception of what we need.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

Is railroading in Wales somewhat separately managed like Scotland? I know the Isle of Man is a self contained operation solely under the local government, with the electric line, the steam line, and the bus system essentially one management. What about the Isle of Rhyde?

Hugh Jampton is correct in describing the network rail regions. Because Scot Rail is generally thought of as one of the better TOC's, the politicians in Wales decided they wanted one TOC for Wales. Part the reason for ScotRail's success is attributed to the fact that it only has to deal with one Network Rail zone so when the Wales and Borders TOC was set up they transferred most of lines in Wales to the Great Western zone of NR. But just as Anglo-Services in Scotland are operated by Virgin and GNER so London-Wales services are operated by Great Western and Virgin.

[Isambard]

I'm an infrequent visitor to this forum, however having recently visited England and travelled on the railways, this discussion thread caught my I. Thanks to all the contributors it helped clear up some of the questions I had as to who was who i.e National Rail, the TOC's ertc. Keep up the discussions!

My family and I were impressed with the level and quality of service on the lines we travelled on - Southwest, Wessex and First Great Western. While we didn't get to try Virgin and Southern, their trains certainly looked good.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

Is railroading in Wales somewhat separately managed like Scotland? I know the Isle of Man is a self contained operation solely under the local government, with the electric line, the steam line, and the bus system essentially one management. What about the Isle of Rhyde?

Not really,, although neither is the railway in Scotland.
The UK network is divided up into 7 regions (these are akin to divisions), these are Northwest, East Anglia, Southern, Great Western, Scotland, Midland and London North East. Each of these regions does have its own autonomy in certain areas, but must tow the company line in general.

I think you mean the Isle of Wight, of which Rhyde is the main city on the island. To answer your question; no, the electric railway between Rhyde and Shanklin is part of the Southern Region, the steam railway between Wooton and Smallbrook Jct. is a preserved railway and only operates occasionally, and the busses are run by Southern Vectis. All three are seperate operations with generally un-co-ordinated timetables.

[daveklepper]

Is railroading in Wales somewhat separately managed like Scotland? I know the Isle of Man is a self contained operation solely under the local government, with the electric line, the steam line, and the bus system essentially one management. What about the Isle of Rhyde?

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Does this mean that, in the long run, the British rail system may be headed back to nationalization? Or, is the freight industry strong enough to stand on it's own. How about fuel prices in Britain? How will that affect the future of British Rail operations?

I think feight can stand on its own. As for passenger rail, the latest franchises are effectively management contracts as what the franchise operator has to provide is more clearly specified. Network Rail is effectively under government control. Merseyrail Electrics, a self contained part of the network is fairly close to a vertically integrated company as the franchise operator is also responsible for track maintenance. I suspect sooner or later the Scottish Parliament will see to it that ScotRail because vertically integrated with Open Access continuing for freight operators.

[beaulieu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Does this mean that, in the long run, the British rail system may be headed back to nationalization? Or, is the freight industry strong enough to stand on it's own. How about fuel prices in Britain? How will that affect the future of British Rail operations?

Thanks

I don't think that they are headed back to Nationalization but a bit of a reatreat from where they were. There are positive things happening. Nationally passenger numbers are up over 40 %. Think about that number. Freight is and will remain totally OA. What may make freight take off is if the European Union can kick down the doors to OA in France. This might also help the finances of the Channel Tunnel too. Alot more freight would go through the Chunnel if it could reasonably travel by rail further inland. Freight has fallen 15% this year compared to last year in France. In Switzerland freight is up about 9.5 % with a market share gain of 2%. The Swiss government atributes this to the beneficial
effects of OA especially since the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Italy are now OA. The French problem is the sheer strength of the Railroad Unions. For the first 15 months of 2005 Fret SNCF the freight division of the French Railway says that 13 of the weeks were disrupted by strikes. They figure that a one day strike causes problems for one week until operations are back to normal. For example France voted on the EU Constitution, the Rail Unions are opposed to the Constitution so they strike. Something like one-third of French Railfreight traffic has been lost in just the last seven or eight years.

[Murphy Siding]

Does this mean that, in the long run, the British rail system may be headed back to nationalization? Or, is the freight industry strong enough to stand on it's own. How about fuel prices in Britain? How will that affect the future of British Rail operations?



Thanks

[Tulyar15]

Murphy Siding - the financial picture on Inter City changed because the costs went up with privitisation. The whole network now needs 4 times the subsidy BR used to manage on.

[Murphy Siding]

Tulyar15: Did the financial picture on the Inter City business change because the costs went up, or the revenues went down?

Owlsroost: Interesting as always.


Thanks

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Can you ride the train from your home to there?

Yes, I could - e.g. do a quick search on the German railways timetable system http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en? (put London to Jenbach in) - but we actually flew from our local airport to Salzburg on a low cost airline then took the train from there to Jenbach (cheaper and faster overall).

Tony

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Tulyar15, cogload and owlsroost: Thank You for the info. I find this very interesting, but have a few questions ( as always). Does the Inter City Passenger business sector make a profit as expected?as it appears that inter city rail travel is very popular.

Thanks

Murphy Siding - under BR the Inter City business did make a profit (and the sleeper services were part of Inter City!). When privitsation happened the Inter City TOC's were expected to pay a premium (ie pay money to the UK Treasury for operating these services, the idea being that it would go towards susbsiding the regional and commuter services). Out of the Inter City TOC's GNER and Midland Main Line still pay a premium but Great Western and Anglia do not. Virgin Cross Country and West Coast have renegotiated their franchise deals that so that they no longer pay premiums as the cost overruns on the West Coast Main Line has wrecked their business plans.

[Murphy Siding]

Owlsroost: Neat links! Can you ride the train from your home to there?


Thanks

[Anonymous]

Vacuum brakes have long since disappeared. Honest.

Because of the short distances involved it is very difficult to make money from wagonload traffic in the UK; especially with additional transhipment costs fropm loading your wagons at either end.

What must be remembered is that land is very expensive here and the Victorians built the railways on the cheap; this means that clearances are very very tight so the enormo trains which are built up in the North American continent wouldn't fit the bill here. As an aside it was the railways which basically created the Law of Compulsory Purchase - knock em dead at parties with that one!

However fule is rapidly appraoching the £1/litre - roughly £5/ uk gallon so dont write it off yet.

[owlsroost]

There is some movement of logs to processing plants by train in the UK - mainly from areas of Scotland that don't have very good highway access to the forest areas. This tends to be either full (but short) trainloads or blocks of wagons attached to other services.

I doubt there is much movement of 'finished' wood products by rail in the UK - the short distances and large number of destinations would make this a natural traffic for trucks.

As an aside, I was on vacation near Jenbach in Austria recently which is the junction for the http://www.zillertalbahn.at/ narrow gauge line to Mayrhofen. They were loading standard gauge wagons full of logs onto narrow gauge transporter wagons - the whole wagon, not just the load - to take them 10-20 miles up the line to a large sawmill - while it was very interesting to watch, I did wonder about the economics of this......

(Incidentally, as well as year-round diesel passenger and freight services, the Zillertalbahn runs some vintage steam trains in the summer - good fun standing on the open platform of the front passenger car looking over the coal bunker in to the cab - http://www.zillertalbahn.at/Englisch/f_gal_e/aaa4_e.html )

Tony