British Railway Operations

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Lucky thing for the British "establishment" that they were able to shun American technology vs. having to *embrace* the technology of the Third Reich

Just for a bit of history, the contributions that German engineers have made to modern transportation are huge.

Nicolaus Otto invented the first practical four-stroke internal combustion engine in 1876.

Gottlieb Daimler took Otto's engine, developed it further, and put it into a carriage to create the world's first 4-wheeled automobile in 1885.

Rudolf Diesel developed the compression ignition engine which bears his name during the 1890's.

Opposed-piston two-stroke diesel engines were developed by Junkers in the late 1920's for airship/aircraft use (Napier were a pre-war licensee of this technology, which was later used in the 'Deltic' engines).

The Britain and Germany both developed aircraft/missile jet engines during WWII (the German V1 was the world's first cruise missile, powered by a 'pulse jet' engine). The V2 missile was the grandfather of modern rockets, and Wernher von Braun and his team who developed it moved to the US after the war - and he effectively became the 'father' of the US space program.

Modern AC drive technology for railway use was developed in Germany (the DB class 120 locomotives in 1979 were the world's first 'modern' AC drive electric locomotives). The AC drive technology used by EMD comes from Siemens in Germany.

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost

QUOTE: Lucky thing for the British "establishment" that they were able to shun American technology vs. having to *embrace* the technology of the Third Reich

Just for a bit of history, the contributions that German engineers have made to modern transportation are huge.

Nicolaus Otto invented the first practical four-stroke internal combustion engine in 1876.

Gottlieb Daimler took Otto's engine, developed it further, and put it into a carriage to create the world's first 4-wheeled automobile in 1885.

Rudolf Diesel developed the compression ignition engine which bears his name during the 1890's.

Opposed-piston two-stroke diesel engines were developed by Junkers in the late 1920's for airship/aircraft use (Napier were a pre-war licensee of this technology, which was later used in the 'Deltic' engines).

The Britain and Germany both developed aircraft/missile jet engines during WWII (the German V1 was the world's first cruise missile, powered by a 'pulse jet' engine). The V2 missile was the grandfather of modern rockets, and Wernher von Braun and his team who developed it moved to the US after the war - and he effectively became the 'father' of the US space program.

Modern AC drive technology for railway use was developed in Germany (the DB class 120 locomotives in 1979 were the world's first 'modern' AC drive electric locomotives). The AC drive technology used by EMD comes from Siemens in Germany.

Tony

Not meant to pick on German engineering-meant to pick on politics in general.[:)] German science and engineering has influenced much in the world, including our space program.

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Not meant to pick on German engineering

I didn't think you were either [:)]

From the other side of the Atlantic, Alexander Graham Bell, Henry Ford, William Shockley and Gordon Moore have all had huge influence on the way we live today (including railoading).

Tony (getting a bit off-topic [:)])

[Murphy Siding]

Great, now I have to go research what William Schockley and Gordon Moore did for the world.[;)] That's a good thing. Being on this forum causes me to learn things that I wouldn't otherwise have given much thought to.

In following through the links provided on this thread, I've made two observations: The British Rail system is a lot smaller, and more condensed than in North America, and there seems to be a lot of varied rail preservation going on in Britain. Cool!

[:)]


Thanks

[Tulyar15]

Yes, even now there are new preserved lines spring up! If they want steam locos they'll have to hunt down the few remaining WW2 US Army 2-8-0's and 0-6-0T's that can still be found in Eastern Europe. Both Yugoslavia and Poland developed locos from the 0-6-0T design and some of these have been imported into Britain as they just about fit the British loading gauge. (Couplings conform to British and European standards so that's not an issue). With vacuum braked stock now mostly a thing of the past the newer lines are re-importing the English Electric "Switchers" supplied to the Dutch railway as these have air brakes and are almost identical to the BR Class 08's.

[Anonymous]

Railroading Brit - you dont reside in the "county town" of Radnorshire -i.e. New Radnor do you? I may actually know who you are..............(not stalking.....honest)!!! ;-).

Murphy - mate you could fit the UK into one of the American states and think Texas is about 5 times the size of this island so we are a bit more condensed to say the least! Still, its nice to see our friends across the water take an interest in what goes on here - dont be scared to take a trip over......

Entertaining day at work - one train failure; one barrier failure; the pway ranting on...at least I didn't have the down sleepers in the station for a couple after a passenger died......oh..............

Varied preservation - the West Somerset Rules!

[daveklepper]

But still< Stephenson and Brunnel were great railway engineers and Britain was the first to build commercially successful steam railroads.

IN my own field of acoustics, Parken designed the sound system for St. Paul's Cathedral, London, that made use of signal delay and column-mounted column loudspeakers to produce intelligible and natural speech in an very reverberant enfvironment, a design concept now widely copied.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload

Railroading Brit - you dont reside in the "county town" of Radnorshire -i.e. New Radnor do you? I may actually know who you are..............(not stalking.....honest)!!! ;-).

Murphy - mate you could fit the UK into one of the American states and think Texas is about 5 times the size of this island so we are a bit more condensed to say the least! Still, its nice to see our friends across the water take an interest in what goes on here - dont be scared to take a trip over......

Entertaining day at work - one train failure; one barrier failure; the pway ranting on...at least I didn't have the down sleepers in the station for a couple after a passenger died......oh..............

Varied preservation - the West Somerset Rules!

"at least I didn't have the down sleepers in the station for a couple after a passenger died......" Translation please?
[:)]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload

Railroading Brit - you dont reside in the "county town" of Radnorshire -i.e. New Radnor do you? I may actually know who you are..............(not stalking.....honest)!!! ;-).

Murphy - mate you could fit the UK into one of the American states and think Texas is about 5 times the size of this island so we are a bit more condensed to say the least! Still, its nice to see our friends across the water take an interest in what goes on here - dont be scared to take a trip over......

Entertaining day at work - one train failure; one barrier failure; the pway ranting on...at least I didn't have the down sleepers in the station for a couple after a passenger died......oh..............

Varied preservation - the West Somerset Rules!

"at least I didn't have the down sleepers in the station for a couple after a passenger died......" Translation please?
[:)]

[:0]Isambard: You were reading my mind!

[owlsroost]

A few clues:

Trains from London are 'down' trains.
Trains to London are 'up' trains.

(The 'up' and 'down' designations are arbitary on lines that don't radiate from London - a bit like the SP definition of 'west' [:)] )

In UK railway slang, sleeping car = 'sleeper', a train conveying sleeping cars is a 'sleeper' train or just the 'sleepers'.

Tony

[daveklepper]

Aren't you confused (sometimes) by using the same word for what we Yanks call "ties"?

[james saunders]

whats a tie? arent they called sleepers?

[Murphy Siding]

YO! I'm down with that,Homey[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload

Railroading Brit - you dont reside in the "county town" of Radnorshire -i.e. New Radnor do you? I may actually know who you are..............(not stalking.....honest)!!! ;-).

I'm over to the West a bit in Wales - not far east of Aberystwyth. I went to school in Kington though so I know New Radnor!

[owlsroost]

Yes, ties (US) = sleepers (UK). You just have to work it out from the context if it's a support for rails or a vehicle with beds that's being refered to [:)]

There's a comment on the origin of 'sleeper' as the term for a horizontal wooden beam here - http://59.1911encyclopedia.org/S/SL/SLEEPER.htm - and this is also an interesting read - http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/trains.htm

My best guess is that Cogload meant he wasn't the signalman who had the problem of the London-Penzance sleeping car train being held at one of the stations in Cornwall for a couple of hours while the death of a passenger was dealt with.

Tony

[Isambard]

I'm surprised that sleeper trains are still run in the UK. What is the schedule for London Penzance? Great Western presumably? How about other overnights out of London?
[:)]

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

I'm surprised that sleeper trains are still run in the UK. What is the schedule for London Penzance? Great Western presumably? How about other overnights out of London?
[:)]

http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/atyourservice/sleeper.php
http://www.firstgroup.com/scotrail/content/caledoniansleeper/index.php

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

While I'm fairly certain there are no horseshoe curves or loops in Britain, (?) I'm guessing that the grades are pretty flat. Trains with one freight engine don't strike me as hill climbers. What are some of the steeper grades still in use?


Thanks

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

I'm surprised that sleeper trains are still run in the UK. What is the schedule for London Penzance? Great Western presumably? How about other overnights out of London?
[:)]

As well as the "Night Riviera" from London Paddington to Penzance, which is operated by Great Western (but may be axed next year when GW's franchise comes up for renewal, though there's a lot of opposition), there's also the sleeper trains to Inverness, Aberdeen and Fort William which run from London Euston and are operated by ScotRail (with locos hired from EWS). These also serve Edinburgh and in the case of the Fort William one, Glasgow too.

Murphy Siding - there are some horseshoe bends on some of the lines in Scotland and Wales. The steepest gradient on the national network is 1 in 27 (3.7%) which is in the Mersey Tunnel between Liverpool (James St) and Birkenhead.

One line which has two 180degree bends is the Liskeard - Looe branch in Cornwall. It starts at Liskeard where the branch platform is at 90 degrees to the main line ones (Liskead is on the main line from Plymouth to Penzance). It then goes round the first 180 degree bend, under the main line then another 180 degree bend to get it to Combe Junction. According to the locals if you miss the branch train after its left Liskeard you can run down the hill and catch it at Combe Junction. There it reverses and carries on down to Looe but there's also a freight only line which carries straight on at Combe and goes under the main line again. This has been upgraded so that class 66's can now run on it but they must screech a lot going round the sharp curves, especially the one which connects the branch to the main line. I should also add that the junction at Liskeard is still controlled by an old fashioned mechanical signal box ("control tower") with semaphore signals.

If the Looe branch did not exist and someone made a model it would be dismissed as unrealistic. But this is one example of reality stranger than fiction!

[Murphy Siding]

Neat! I'll have to try and find that on terraserver. Liskeard is the name of the town? I take it that's in England,not Scotland?

Thanks

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Neat! I'll have to try and find that on terraserver. Liskeard is the name of the town? I take it that's in England,not Scotland?

Thanks

Liskeard is a town in Cornwall,, it's that bit the sticks out to the left at the bottom if you look on a map. It kinda looks like a claw. It's a nice place, lovely scenery etc.. But the people are a tad inbread though (the kid from Deliverance could easily be Cornish).

[mhurley87f]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

While I'm fairly certain there are no horseshoe curves or loops in Britain, (?) I'm guessing that the grades are pretty flat. Trains with one freight engine don't strike me as hill climbers. What are some of the steeper grades still in use?


Thanks

To my shame, I have to admit I haven't yet "done" our Ffestiniog Railway, so I have to ask my UK co-corrrespondents whether they can confirm the Dduallt diversion on that line qualifies as a loop.

PS Dduallt is Black Hill in Welsh.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Neat! I'll have to try and find that on terraserver. Liskeard is the name of the town? I take it that's in England,not Scotland?

Thanks

Murphy: If you find it please post the link. It sounds like an interesting layout possibility!
[:)]

Here's a good link for UK maps: http://www.multimap.com/map/home.cgi?client=public&lang=&advanced=&db=GB

[Isambard]

QUOTE: [i]
But the people are a tad inbread though (the kid from Deliverance could easily be Cornish).

Ah, now there's a provocative statement! Although I've not seen Deliverance I can imagine that the kid is not a Mensa member.
You are speaking of the land of my paternal ancestors! Invidious comments like that are grounds for provoking an uprising by the people of Kernewack heritage !
[:D]

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Neat! I'll have to try and find that on terraserver. Liskeard is the name of the town? I take it that's in England,not Scotland?

Thanks

Murphy: If you find it please post the link. It sounds like an interesting layout possibility!
[:)]

Here's a good link for UK maps: http://www.multimap.com/map/home.cgi?client=public&lang=&advanced=&db=GB

I'm searching.[:)] I'm not smart enough to post a link, but if I find it, maybe I can get nanaimo73 to link it for me.[:)].

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Isambard

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Neat! I'll have to try and find that on terraserver. Liskeard is the name of the town? I take it that's in England,not Scotland?

Thanks

Murphy: If you find it please post the link. It sounds like an interesting layout possibility!
[:)]

Here's a good link for UK maps: http://www.multimap.com/map/home.cgi?client=public&lang=&advanced=&db=GB

I'm searching.[:)] I'm not smart enough to post a link, but if I find it, maybe I can get nanaimo73 to link it for me.[:)]

When you find the website its http//www address should appear in the address bar of your internet browser bar. Using the usual edit routine swipe over the complete address and copy it to the clipboard. Then paste the address from the clipboard wherever you want in the message being posted. Voila, link posted!
[:)]

[Anonymous]

Steady know steady. I live and work in Cornwall..........

Cheers Railroading Brit - Kington is very pleasant.

Tony - a succinct/ pithy translation.

[Murphy Siding]

Ignorant American here: What is Cornwall? And, does that make you a Cornwallian?[:)]

Thanks

[martin.knoepfel]

Cornwall is a peninsula in the south-west of the British islands. I you look at a map of Britain, it is located at bottom left (North ist up).

[Anonymous]

Quick rundown. The Uk is split into two kingdoms (England, Scotland); one Principality (Wales) and one Province (Ulster or Northern ireland). Attached are various Islands (Isle of Man and the Channel Islands) which are self governing and have their own ways in various degrees - i.e. the Channel Islands have a lower and differing tax system then the rest of the UK. The Kingdom as a whole is split into counties which have in many cases thier own identity (although sadly this is trying to be extinguished) and in some cases language and culture.

Cornwall is the county which occupies the peninsular in the far South West of the United Kingdom. It has four basic industries - tourism; farming; fishing and china clay. it is the poorest county in England as a result. The indigenious residents of Cornwall (the Cornish) are a very anti England bunch in some respects. This is because the Cornish, uniquely I think in ENGLAND (emphasis here) have a language; patron Saint and culture (they would argue) then the bunch the other side of the River Tamar. If you are from Cornwall you are Cornish. That is the term. The County town (administrative centre) of Cornwall is Truro (City of) - incidentally you are only allowed to be a city in the Uk by a) havaing a Cathedral and b) by having a Royal Charter. It is relatively isololated in terms of transport from the rest here. The ruling line speed on the Main Line (the only line really) from Penzance to London thru the county is roughly 65 MPH. There are various branches which serve seaside towns like St Ives (famous for its artists); Falmouth (for its boats); Looe (as ealier); Newquay (atlantic surf resort) and Gunnislake ( a branch which a trip on basically tkaes you back 50 years in time). There are various freight branches which serve the China Clay industry as well. Apart from a few isolated pockets of lights; the signalling system is absolute block and semaphore. This is not because we are technologically backward; this is because it is a) cheap and b) will cost far too much to replace and never make a return. Roughly 65 trains per day passenger and 5-10 freight depending on where you are. I my part of the world I see two freight trains per week.