Has a GG1 ever been restored to running order?

[rtstasiak]

Following up on previous remarks. If you're not too fussy, a G can run again. Step 1, Pair the G with an AC-4400 (or thereabouts) donated by GE, one of the original builders of the G. Get the running gear and frame up to snuff, add cab controls, ditch lights, and run it as a non powered push-pull cab car. Step 2, salvage, if possible, the AC motors. If salvage is not possible, repower each C-truck in A-1-A fashion with contemporary motors and gears to provide token propulsion. Each idler axle could be a freewheeling "zombie" quill for old times sake. The GG-1 becomes a GG-2 slug, highlighting the fine work done by GE and others.

[daveklepper]

Dutch, you are assuming an exact restoration. I am assume a sold restoration that uses existing state of the art equipment that one can purchase from reputable manufacturers to make the thing run and haul some fans under the overhead (yes, single-phase AC 50Hz 11,000volt) catenary. And look great and authentic doing it, even if the sounds are a bit off. The kind of thing that might have been done if say Amtrak had chosen to upgrade the GG-1 to GG-2! It might even go so far as to have those motors (of course dissassembled and insulation checked and perhaps even the motors rewould with the most modern insulation) run on dc instead of ac. And, as you well know, with the proper safe-guards against overload, this is perfectly feasible with an ac-commutator motor and there is no difference in this particular aspect between the motors that powered the NYNH&H EP-3 4-6-6-4 streamliner and the GG-1. So maybe off the shelf equipment might mean using rectifier technology! But maybe not. Maybe it can be all 25 cycle ac equipment and there are still industrial plants that use 25cycle ac. I bet Wilmington shops still has some 25 Hz equipment and the parts are avialable. As to motors and frames left out to rust for 20 years, what do you suppose trolley musems all over the country face when they find a Brill safety car sitting in the woods on its original trucks after being used as a hen house for 50 years? The museums I belong to have had many motors stripped down and rewired. People who have done this for them have included big outfits like the CTA, NYCTA, and EMD, and smaller industrial motor shops local to the areas. Wilmington could probably do it, but it would of course take MONEY.

[Dutchrailnut]

GG-1's on 3 phase ?? yeah right, you must be the guy who got me my certification.

[Rick Gates]

Since we were running these same GG-1's on 3 phase AC and the motors were rewound and maintained at the Wilmington Shops, I don't think there is a real problem running one were Dave is saying.

[Dutchrailnut]

your talking about modifying a GG-1 Dave not restoring.
No standard Locomotive hardware fits a GG-1, since standard locomotives in general are either DC or three phase AC.
A GG-1 is singlephase motors in tandem at voltages to high to use standard locomotive swichgear.
BTW how good do you think open frame motors are after sitting in open air and humidity after 20 years of non use ???

[daveklepper]

The restored GG-1 could operate on Amtrak Harold Tower, Sunnyside Yard, Queens to Washington Union Station, the Princeton Shuttle of New Jersey Transit, and some of the SEPTA suburban lines out of Philadelphia that also still have 25Hz 11,000V ac power. I believe the clearances in the Center City Tunnel are sufficient, but this woudl require checking. Nearly all the electrical and signal parts needed to restore a GG-1 to operation are off-the-shelf industrial or diesel locomotive hardware. This assumes the quill motores and drives are in good condition.

[Dutchrailnut]

for more details on GG-1's see: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/
Getting Title would not be to hard, but moving a locomotive out of date for more than 20 years is.
To fix the frames with Volunteers is nearly impossible, you probably won't be able to get electrical parts anymore so you would be redisigning a new propulsion package for the unit .
Cabsignal allone is not an option so add to that a $200 000 microcab Acses system.

ps trainjunkie even if you own the locomotive it still has to be operated by the engineers of the railroad your running on.
so if you run it on NJT you use NJT crews, you run on MNCR you use MNCR crews etc.
unless you can find a museum line or abandoned line with 11.5 Kv overhead.

[Gunns]

The Issue would be getting title to the Locomotive. I am helping with the restoration of the AT&SF 2926, and our club worked 4 years to get title to the Locomotive. Money is not the real issue, determination is the issue. If you have a large group of committed volunteers the restoration will take place.
Gunns

[daveklepper]

Of course I've been in GG-1 cabs, several times. If you think the cab of a GG-1 is tiny, you should share the "footplate" of some older British steam with the engineer and fireman. I rode the left side, Fireman's side, of a GG-1 from New Haven to Penn Station when returning from a stint at the Trolley Museum on the Sunday that happened to be the 75th Anniversary of the day that the amalgamation took place forming the New York New Haven and Hartford Railroad.

Dutch, you have no idea how compact the rectifier-alternator electronic equipment can be. A unit about the size of a typical h-fi radio receiver amplifier can probably handle enough power for an eight car train. Remember, most of the weight and space is already provided by the new main transformer or transformers. You are just tapping off a small fraction of that power.

I think the idea certainly is doable, but the money? Who?

[adrianspeeder]

Sorry, but show me the money...

Adrianspeeder

[rtstasiak]

If people were not too fussy, a GG-1 "Dash-2" could be built around a trailing power car with diesel alternators for traction and HEP. I'd rewire the controls of those lovely AC quill motors with solid-state thyristor "valves" and other goodies out of a modern AC traction locomotive. In fact, this would be an AC4400 stretched out between a cab and a tender, the former being the GG-1 body with motors and operating controls and the latter being where all the infernal combustion takes place. The pantographs would be dummies, but the unit could run--and earn money--anywhere the track could take the load.

Rich

[adrianspeeder]

The one is Stasburg PA is very nice looking. The Pennsy hit a home run with that loco.

Adrianspeeder

[Rick Gates]

I've operated alot of GG-1's. I have never heard of the Unions taking issue to space inside the cab. Most ran freight and most in passenger service used steam generators and not boilers. Most also had the PCB coolant oil drained after it's enviromental issues came to light in the 1970's and were replaced with another mineral oil. If they were to be run again it might be only for nastolgia's sake, so why wouldn't it be coupled to freight, old style passenger , or mail cars? HEP would not be an issue. The frames were always cracking due to metal fatigue. Thay were constantly welded. I don't believe they would be put in working service anyway however; an excursion run would not be out of the realm of possibility. Oh, and Dutch....if you do want to remove the steam generator/boiler, remember to remove the water tanks in each nose too. Plenty more room. [2c]

[Anonymous]

UNIONS? Volunteers would be doing this, probably. I have a feeling that crews coming off of hot steam locomotives (with cramped cabs) (hand fired, too) in the muggy Washington area had NO COMPLAINTS when assigned to electrics. Really, a GG-1 would be pretty easy to run on excursions--it requires just the juice, so no special stops would have to be made, and they are bi-directional, so no turning would be required. Also, they are just as kind to track as any other electric.

Those are complaints held by some about steam excursions, none of which would be grounded with GG-1's.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[Dutchrailnut]

Dave from your comments I can see you have never been on inside of a GG1, or operated one, there is no space at all.
its so small you need to go outside to change your mind.
Even if the Boiler were to be removed you would never be able to put that stuff in cab area.
and even if you could the Unions would not accept the working space on a GG-1 anymore

[daveklepper]

Head end power for a GG-1 is absolutely no problem at all. The multi-tap transformer is necesary for the kind of acceleration control the GG-1 has, and it is not a problem to have the right voltage pull-off to run a rectifier to inverter electcronic system that can provide the necessary 480 volt three-phase for regular Amtrak head-end power. Not all frames are cracked, and additional welding and strengthening can assure that one in good shape stays that way. The idea is feasible, but where is the money to come from? If the money were provided, I am certain one of the commuter authorities and/or Amtrak would not hinder the operation in any way if they didn't loose money on it.

[Anonymous]

GG1 #4927 has been cosmetically at IRM in Union, Il. It looks beautiful. However, it will never be able to run on the IRM on the 600V DC cantenary. Enjoy what you see but don't expect to see it run on its own power.

[paulsafety]

If steam engines that were lost at the bottom of a river can be hauled out and returned to operating condition, why couldn't a GG1 get a new transformer. It does seem very unlikely that I will live to see it happen, but if a new transformer was installed, couldn't it be one that operates on dual voltages so that it could run anywhere there is AC in the overhead? (if you're going to dream, dream big!)

GG1 is one of my all time favorites, having ridden behind them as a child on trips to NYC and DC from Philly.

Sure would be a fantastic fan trip if it could be done.

Too bad we lost so many NH electrics to the scrappers torch![:(]

[Anonymous]

The solution to the cracked frames might well be to work on one single "runner" and swap components with others to get it working - swap frames around to get an undamaged set. Were any GG1s scrapped and were any parts saved? Over here, most preservation groups have developed a spares store by visiting scrapyards and recovering usable parts from classmates of their loco - everything from throttles to complete trucks and power units.

[Anonymous]

People--forget HEP equipment: you have 11, 000 volts above your head. Get a transformer for the HEP equipment. It shouldn't use up too much room, and you might not have to remove the boiler. I know that you could get new transformers, and not all the frames are cracked.

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[Anonymous]

Is the one at the PRR museum the actual unit that crashed thru the floor of the station in DC on the famous runaway?

Correct me if I am wrong.

[Anonymous]

I wi***hat it could be done, but will never happen. It was one of the greatest loco that was on the rails any where in the world. 50 years of service. RIP

[Modelcar]

....I saw the one at the museum in Strasburg and if I remember correctly it was the original prototype unit....The rivited one.

[spbed]

I was at the train station in Matawan NJ when it departed on it last trip. [:o)][:p][:D]

My son said there is one at the RR Museum of Penn in Strasburg PE. He sent me a T-shirt from their with the GG-1 on it in PRR colors.

Originally posted by CHPENNSYLVANIA
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

• Reply