No wonder UP is shorthanded

[Anonymous]

To Terry and everyone else who think they may want to give railroading a try.

I strongly suggest that you try volunteering at your local railroad museum. Work your way into the operating department and learn how it's done.

You'll get great training and advice. You'll learn more about real railroading from former and current employees than you can even imagine!

And after getting up at 4:00 AM, driving two hours to the museum, marking up, attending the safety briefing, doing a little maintenence on the engines, cars and track, listening to the constant complaints about somebody elses screwup, or that someone ran through a switch, a locomotive won't load, someone didn't take down their blue flag, standing in the hot sun or freezing cold for ten hours.....you'll start to understand what the job is all about.

And after a few butt chewings, scrapped knee caps, sprained ankles, smashed fingers, writers cramp from filling out work and maintenence reports, and the joy of shaking cinders out of your boots after walking in them all day.....

If your wife doesn't let you in the house until after you've stripped your work clothes off and rinsed yourself off with the garden hose....

if you still like it, then go ahead and try to get on with the railroad.

Personally, I enjoy it. In fact, I'm kind of glad I never got the full time job with the railroad as I get enough of it at the railroad museum. I've made the greatest friends and lifelong pals at the railroad museum I volunteer at. And I've learned more about railroad history, mechanic's, operations and lore than I could have ever learned reading Model Railroader or Trains magazine (sorry Kalmbach...you're the best, but this is real ).

Seriously, it's about as close as you can get to real railroading. And all of the museums need people. Our operating department is so good that several of our people have gotton real jobs on the UP and they're doing great.

Give it a try. If you don't like it....this is the best way to find out. And you don't have to quit your day job to find out.

run8john

[Anonymous]

Try being a police officer, danrgerous and meating the worst people in the world, poeple who will bite your ear lobe off or shoot you!! Or a tow truck driver, there is an experience in dealing with horrible people and work conditions along hi-speed hiways. Then I had a so called "desirable" 9-5 job for $1000 a week, but your inside, bored and honestly could never care if work ever got done or not. Most jobs by far suck! I always liked trains , now I work on the railroad as yardman / trainman. It's way better, it is still a job but it's better than other stuff. I should have figured it out a long time ago. People who complain should quit and be broke until they find what they want.

[Mookie]

Good for you! And that probably made you a very good employee, too.

[Anonymous]

I prefer to think of it this way, back before corporations decided it was cool to betray the american worker, it was called "the personnel dept" and their perspective reflected the vision of the worker as a valued asset.

Then along comes the disolution of common respect, the american dream is discarded as a bad fairy tale, and suddenly it's called "human resources"

And in contrast to your "flows down hill" analogy...I think the fitting analogy is more like "HR is like a septic tank, all the $H1T floats to the top".....

[BRAKIE]

While I am not taking sides,I would like to offer my views. When I worked on the PRR and Chessie System as a brakeman I love the work.I knew of no other job that paid me for what I love to do.If I was young again I would do it all over.

[Mookie]

You're right - it isn't the most pleasant job. But I was well aware of the drawbacks and would have still tried to "hire on". And, unlike the motive for a lot of people, the $ would have been nice, but still would have like to "railroad". Would rather do something I love with all its drawbacks, than have fantastic pay and hate to go to work!

Was in restaurant business for many years - there is a low paying job, w/o benefits and lots of hard work. Loved every minute of it. And so did most of my co-workers! But we still "managed" to keep them upbeat. We worked with them and kept their jobs interesting.

[Anonymous]

No need to over-analyze this situation.I am unaware of crappier job-period.If one does exist,please step forward and identify it.It's a miserable existance.. always working[usually never knowing when,]always tired,constantly having your job security threatened etc...it's amazing they even have a workforce.Can you imagine having the assignment of trying to inspire and motivate employees that work in that type of environment...good luck!

[Mookie]

I too grew up in a union family BLF&E - it wasn't perfect, but seemed to "be there" for the members.
My job is not union - so have no real opinions on union vs non. But have talked to several people that are in union jobs and like you, they feel betrayed by the people supposed to support them.
I don't want to cause a ruckus with this, but the feeling was that the union went along with the company more than the employees.

So if your managers won't listen to your concerns, your company makes sure the executives are fully taken care of above all others and if you are union, your union sells you out to management, no wonder there is apathy. I love my job, just sometimes think management doesn't use common sense!

[Mookie]

Unfortunately (for the situation not against you) I have to agree with you. Hate to be negative, but this is reality. One bright spot - there are people out there that feel the same way - so I don't feel like it is just my attitude that needs adjustment!

[Anonymous]

I had written quite a long e-mail to Trains right after the hiring session and was surprised to hear back from Mark Hemphill(I hope I got the name right) himself. He suggested that I remove all negative comments and opinions and mail it to the president of UP. Well, the entire letter was my opinion of how the hiring session went and yes, it was critical. Completely editing it wouldn't be worth my while. And I realize UP isn't changing anytime soon, but what are you implying about Santa(ha-ha)?? Terry

[sooblue]

Hi Jenny,
To ME being too far down the road means two things. (One) The employees, are to the point of just putting in time, They feel trapped, they feel enslaved, voiceless, apathetic, vengeful, spiteful, and perhaps worthless or depressed.
(two) The company is in trouble, getting complaints, losing customers, losing managers, losing employees, LOSING.

There is only one thing to do in my mind and that is, as one, the employees and the managers voice their concerns to the owners.

Managers won't join, forget them. What do the employees have to lose? the jobs they hate?
If it is as bad as you say it is I would join as a manager because it would be SUCKING for me too!

Oh, I know you have the unions. Tell them to butt out. I'll tell you why in a moment. You need to know that I was raised in a UNION home. My dad was one of the first presidents of the local sheet metal workers union in MN. He helped to form the union in the sweat shop days. I'm a union boy for sure!! back than the UNION DIDN'T CUT DEALS. They compromised for sure but never to the point that they WASTED the sacrifice of those that made the union possible. 2002 and you don't know who's in bed with who.

If the owners are available to meet with, they will really respect the employees comming as themselves to hammer out solutions to the problems because the company is losing.
no one has anything to lose and everything to gain.

Every RR has a web site, Use it.
AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT UNION BUSTING HERE!
more like a owner, manager, employee triad for improvement.

[Anonymous]

The only thing of interest to them is how some people still believe railroad management doesn't have their finger on pulse of the company:They know what's going on.They are functioning in the comfortable climate they created.Management believes any modifications to the status quo with respect to operating practices that have negative impacts on the bottom line will not be considered/implemented.Management is receptive to change,as long as it doesn't cost anything.Making an employee's working/home life better at the expense of the bottom line isn't going to occur...unless you belive in Santa.

[Anonymous]

Terry,

You should forward your comments to UP headquarters at Omaha. I'm sure their HR dept. would be interested.

Ed

[Anonymous]

To All: I didn't have access to a computer since I opened this can of worms but WOW, what responses!! It's good to know that I wasn't imagining my bad hiring session experience. Having worked in various management areas for a number of years, I was surprised if not shocked at the "Prepare to be fired" attitude of the UP reps. But as my topic headline screams--it's no wonder they are shorthanded. I guess they've never thought that the better the employees are treated, the more they will (gasp!) like their job and be more productive. I appreciate all who have replied and keep piling on if you wish. Terry

[Mookie]

Run8john:
I love this and I am going to print it out and post it in a very public place in my cubicle!

[Mookie]

Sooblue - I appreciate your comments and applaud your management style. It seems like only common sense that the best managers are ones that work with the employees and have firsthand knowledge of what their jobs entail and how well they do them. I realize this works best in smaller companies, but all bigger companies have smaller divisions and this should be applied in the smaller divisions.

I think a good manager should be willing to get their hands dirty - but have seen owners that feel managers are above all that and should manage - from a desk!

The replies on this have been very good and express all the problems - and even some company solutions, which were priceless. However, I don't see any way to turn this situation around - I think we have gone too far down the road. Sad.

Jen

[Anonymous]

i hope brakie that you someday can come to a comfortable rememberance of that night.I as well
have times that i think back to the night we had a person decide to take there own life. many guys like us have problems forgeting a tragedys like that hitting cars and suscides (i cant spell that word public education ya know)
I my self have had many fngs and i have theem on a short string...... and any time i have a new guy ..i DONT let him off by himself in the dark unless he knows the yard call me protective
a new guy can't learn a thing a night
buttttttt WE ALL HAVE TO BE A BIT DUMB A BIT OF
A LOANER AND QUITE CRAZY I KNOW I AM TO WORK ON THE RAILROAD ....BUT WE ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON WE LOVE THE SENSE OF FREEDOM WHEN WE ARE ALL ALONE ROOLING A TRAIN BY IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE......LAST THING AND WE ALL LOVE THE MONEY.......BUT THE MONEY WONT BE THAT GOOD IN 10
YEARS
RULE 10.25 STAY ALIVE FOR THE 10 AND THE 25 PAY DAY WHOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOO

[sooblue]

Hi Jenny,
You've made a few comments about managment in the rest of the world and I thought you would like to hear something about that.
I manage a small non union factory. I may be a unique type of manager in that even though I have an office and enough work to keep me there I continue to work with the rest of people out in the factory. In a union shop I wouldn't be allowed to do this. I get to see on a daily basis what the decisions I make do to the people I work with. I also get to hear their bitches in real time. On the other hand I work closely with the owner of the company. I have to put into action his desires and some times whims. I get to hear his bitches too.
Than there is the mandated stuff to deal with like OSHA and SPCA. When I assess risk and try to change work habits you would think I was trying to force our guys to drink acid. They resist change to the point that it has to be forced on them at times.
It's hard to sit down with the owner and tell him he has to spend 5 or 6 thousand dollors on lock out and tag out supplies and safty interlocks for our automatic mechines, than go out and install all that equipment just to have someone bypass the interlocks because it's inconvenient to them.
There are times that I want to tell both groups that they deserve each other and just leave.
My point is that in any buisness there is a symbiotic relationship with the workers the managers and the MONEY (owners) union or non union
the best companies understand and support each other they don't bash each other because they NEED each other.
sooblue

[Soo2610]

Jim, good point. Unfortunately morals and ethics no longer exist in this country. Everything now boils down to "me first" and MONEY.

[BRAKIE]

harlan,While working on the PRR,we had a rookie to get kill with less then 3 weeks on the job.Even with 3 men looking out for him he decided to be dumb. I had just give the signal to the engineer to back up,I looked around to check on the field man and look back just in time to see the rookie start across the track,I gave a yell and a wash out to the engineer,alas it was just to late..He left a young wife and a kid.I shall never forget this as long as I live.

[Anonymous]

RK The only thing that comes to mind is the fact that there are guys that ya work w/ that you know
will get hurt.
There are guys out there that are snakebit that could get hurt anywhere ive known a few of theem, one is on the hurt board and another just got off if it.
R.K you know as well that if managers cared about safety they would walk the walk ive been switching out on the road and a manager approached me and talking to me about the guy in pine bluff that was killed on the trim job. (the yard master killed him told the guy the track was locked up and guess what there was another crew working the other end)This guy told me that "if the guy would have had a new hire vest and hat on he would have never been killed cause the old heads on the crew would have known he had under 5 years".Pine Bluff the k043 xs35 was all loan outs hence under 5 years every one knew that. The crap gets that deep

The truth the man had 21 starts in 15 days and cms should have seen that 21 starts in 15 days
is a little much.on the other hand so should he
While this manager was giveing me the biznessss
he had no earplugs and boat shoes on and no safty glasses on w/in 30 feet of my jacks.
RK you know that the thing they get after ya the most about is glasses and pluggs. also they dont care if ya get on moveing equipment they just care how fast ya get the work done if your fast they look the other way.
Getting back to what you were talking about the bowl its the best job in the yard you are in charge of everything tracks are close,and everything is moveing. things that suck is haveing a missing knuckle 20 deep and the lazy hump guys saw it fall out and let it go over.If you rely on hearing the cars comming at or on the yard master keeping the track locked up boom your dead.I couldnt count how many times they let more go on top of me w/out telling me.. Also you will never see any manager in the bowl, that would be like finding bishop in a sex shop oh wait a min.
I myself have worked in 2 hump yards neff yard in kc and fort worth texas the same each location.

I keep hearing that railroaders have it easy some might butt, come switching w/ me in july in phoenix ill call 911 and have ya all hauled away.

NOTE TO TRUCKERS working outside its hot and THERE IS NO A.C. you can even out your trucker tan but bring your slip on work boots cause finding a trucker able to tie his shoes is like finding a bishop in home for wayward boys...... i guess that dont work either

P.S I LOVE TRUCKERS THEY BRING THE BEER rock on bandit runn

R.I.P MICK HUBER PINE BLUFF 2002


SAFETY RULE OF THE DAY: USE THE WRAP DONT GET THE CLAPPPPP KID

I TAKE ADVICE FROM MY ELDERS

SATURDAYS RULE 1.6 WHO CAN TELL ME THAT RULE?


UNION MEMBER LOCAL 807 TUCSON AZ.

[Mookie]

I can remember when the customer did come first, but now it is pretty wide-spread that it doesn't happen. I would think the bottom line would be affected enough that companies would take care of their "assets" - employees. Isn't this just good common sense?

[eolafan]

As to the question of "when will this all end?", that's a question for the ages, but my opinion is when companies get back to the old and very simple idea of "TAKE CARE OF THE CUSTOMER", when it comes to service, product quality, safety, etc. then we all will be much better off in this world. This idea is definetly not limited to railroads, or any other type of business, it simply goes back to "the golden rule" of "treat others as you would have them treat you". Kind of spooky how all of those old sayings our parents spouted off to us, and that we thought were corny at the time, keep coming back as valid ideas when interpurted properly, hey?

[Mookie]

I agree and wonder just where this will all end.
There has to be a change in the thinking that you ignore experience and "people knowledge" that some people have to go for the manager that has no idea what the employees actually do, but can really talk fast and long!

[Mookie]

I think you have identified the problem very well. I see it just like this in my small corner of the world and it is frustrating. I always feel like a company is a house, with the "hourlies" or blue collar workers being the basement and management is the upper levels. They keep redecorating and improving the upper part and the basement crumbles...

My next question tho, is do unions help or hinder or are they even in the mix? I guess if you can't get in the front door, they aren't, but what about after?

[Anonymous]

Good for you R.K. I hope the newbies who are fortunate enough to work with you will learn something. I hope you realize that you will save lives and suffering from injuries. Good for you R.K.

[BRAKIE]

Jenny,I have no idea,but the problem seems to be getting worst in just about very line of work including railroading and trucking...I can not help but wonder if the upper mangement with all their schooling know which in is up when it comes to doing the work regardless of what line of work the company does.

[Anonymous]

Well Wichita, what do you think would happen to their return on shareholder equity, in the long run, if they placed a high priority on operational employees?? I would like to know.

[Anonymous]

How to change the industry? Identifying the management problems is one step. And this is true of many industries.

Seems that too many decisions in the corporate world these days are over reactions to the normal ebb and flow of business and the economy. Inexperianced business managers don't know how to ride the wave and resort to dramatic cuts instead. Then when the business picks up...they can't handle the volume and the expenses increase because they have to rebuild the companies infrastructure all over again.

A good manager knows how to ride the wave through the good times and the bad. They are far sighted enough to plan for downturns and slowdowns and also have contingency plans for taking advantage of the better situations and deals that come their way.

I think too many companies demand too much from managers who don't have the skills or experiance to overcome short term problems and thus they come up with draconian solutions such as:

Have a downturn in business....lay off a thousand people.

Stock prices flat in the third quarter....sell off your assets.

Inventory down...sell the warehouse.

Nothing to ship this week...sell off the transportation division.

Employee's complaining about layoffs...cancel the Christmas Party and Bonuses.

Need cash?...borrow from the employees 401 and pension plans.

Many companies today want to get rich quick. If the managers don't realize 10-25% growth this year they simply let them go and bring in the next "Whiz Kid" to give it a try.

Who was it that said "if you have 4% growth every year, after ten years that's a 40% increase".

[Anonymous]

And the UP is not the only one doing stupid things.

A friend who works for the BNSF told me he watched his railroad recruit and train locomotive engineers at company time and expense only to lay them off when they returned from the training school.

After nine months of training, these new engineers, with Federal license in hand....walked across the street and signed on with the UP who immediately put them to work.

My friend said that he tries to be careful with equipment and doesn't want to waste or damage BNSF property....and yet management is blowing tens of thousands of dollars training engineers for their competitor.