No wonder UP is shorthanded

[Anonymous]

Just curious if others have had a similiar hiring session experience with UP or any other RR that I had. I attended the session in KC in late August which was run by a completely unprepared UP Human Resources manager and a local manager who would be in charge of training. When the session first started the Terminal Manager for UP in KC was there and stated how undermanned the extra board for yard jobs was(they had 18 of about 100 projected workers). During the session our numbers dwindled from about 25 to 17 and having passed both the written and physical tests I felt pretty confident heading into my interview. Once again both managers seemed unprepared to interview and in fact were looking at the new corporate interview guide for the first time(I was the first interview). I didn't get a call for whatever the reason, but if they are so short on help, I can't really understand it. No background check was made at that time, and even if it had been would have come back clean. Is this really a good way to run a railroad? Any similiar experiences? Also, the local manager warned several times about different safety or work violations which he would "fire us on the spot for" (without us even having the job yet!!), pretty professional, huh? Terry

[Anonymous]

Terry, That's what happens in a "union/management
situation. I have worked several companies, and while union representation will gaurantee the bigger paycheck, it will also gaurantee resentment from management towards the employees.
The plant I work in, we are constantly being threatened of getting "fired", it is just management's "game". If they would only see the forest for the trees, they might just realize who is actually making that "profit" for them. But no, The "blue-collar man" is a scum-bag, and waste of capital, as far as management is concerned. Railroads are no different than any other big company, College-educated-idiots, trying to brown nose their superiors into thinking that they are worth their salaries. I would like to see one of these idiots put out there in a real work situation. 9 times outta 10, they will fail miserably. But, when the s*&t hits the fan, where does the axe fall? Yup, you guessed it, s*^t rolls downhill. And the guy who worked half his life for the company looses. Meanwhile, the incompetant supervisor gets promoted.
And yes, I see this happen every day......

Todd C.

[BRAKIE]

Terry,The Union will not permit anybody from being fired on the spot.You must have a hearing with the management with union representives being there.

Terry,Railroading is not a game.One can be hurt or killed by infractions of the rules.Even when I worked on the PRR and Chessie one could get called in to give account of his safety violations.I have been there and done that for a minor rule infraction that backed fired and caused a derailment.We knew better and done it many times before and gotten by with it.Needless to say things went south and a car derailed on a time saving move.The conductor and both of us brakeman got 7 days off,it could have been worst and would have been worst if the other brakeman didn't run for his life when he saw the move was going south in a hurry.

[Anonymous]

I was loaned out to kansas city all summer of 2001
and i know all about what your talking about.
One thing is the guys you would have worked w/ are cool good guys that stick together.That said
they were trying 2 intimidate you,the up is in love w/ that style of management.They can't scare the old guys so they have to start w/ the new guys.I work for the up now and went through the same interview (i knew what was going 2 happen) before hand 4th generation UP EMPLOYEE here.
The guy you were talking about i think was mike if it is the same man...... in 98 the guy talked down to a black man at an interview and that man showed him a *** kicking of an woodshed nature.
Howard might have been the interviewer and when i talked to him in 2001 he had a one of the worst attitudes i have ever seen about a person in his line of work.The railroads all have the same style of management we know everything and you are our property.Every one i talk to in this company is the same, no one can think for theem selves not cause they can't they fear what will
happen to theem if someone disagrees w/ the choice they made.So no one is working towards the common goal.... witch should be safety and service to the customer.... You think the up is un professional you have the same view that the customers have .............the up stands or un professional...
THE SAYING IS TRUE YOU THROW A FROG IN HOT POT IT'LL JUMP OUT BUTT TURN UP THE HEAT NICE AND EASY
AND YOU GOT FROG LEGGS FOR EVERYONE
THE MANAGEMENT OF THIS PLACE HAVE THERE JOBS BECAUSE OF THE PROBLEMS THAT PLAUGE THE UP WHEN
THE MANAGEMENT RELIES ON THE PROBLEMS TO KEEP THERE JOBS... CAN THEY BE PART OF THE FIX?????
GOOD LUCK TERRY YOU MIGHT GET A CALL THE UP LOVES CALLING 8 9 MO AFTERWARD.I LOVE MY JOB AND THE GUYS AND GALS I WORK W/ BUTT,,, I HATE WHAT THE UP HAS DONE AND BECOME.... MEMBERS OF MY FAMILY HAVE WORKED FOR THE UP FOR 100 YEARS AND THIS USED TO BE A FAMILY AND I REMEMBER PLAYING IN THE BACK YARD W/ TIMEKEEPERS KIDS AND THE SUPERINTENDANTS
KIDS AND GOING W/ OUR MOTHERS TO PULL HIM AND MY FATHER OUT OF THE BAR MY DAD WAS A SWITCHMAN YOU WOULDN'T SEE THAT NOW DON'T PLAY W/ THE HELP

[Anonymous]

BRAKEIE ON THE UP YOU CAN BE FIRED ON THE SPOT.... 14 WEEKS OF TRAINING AFTER THAT YOUR DERAIL STARTS AND 60 DAYS AFTER THAT THE UNION CAN PROTECT YOU SO THATS A LONG TIME BEFORE THE UNION CAN PROTECT YOU........ TRAING BROKE DOWN 2 WEEKS IN CLASS 7 WEEKS OJT 2 WEEKS CONDUCTOR TRAINING 2 WEEKS CON OJT 1 WEEK COMPUTER TCS AND WORK ORDER REPORTING THEN THROW THAT SWITCH KID

[Anonymous]

The BN has a similar story to tell. They advertised for dispatcher positions with college degrees and/or experience. I attended with my B.A. in hand with two coworkers who had railroad experience. It meant nothing to the BN, who really should have advertised that only women need apply. Many were hired with neither college degrees or experience.

[eolafan]

Amen, in today's world it sure seems like PC (political correctness) will win out over common sense and logic every time. Very sad but true.

[BRAKIE]

harlan,Thanks for the up date on how the new system works.Suffice it to say it was alot different when I frist hired out.

[Anonymous]

I sat through a hire-session and couldn't believe the approach/language/style.I know Railroads want to portray an accurate perspective of the job requirements/work conditions,and I give them an A+ for their effectiveness and honesty.I left the session mid-way,like many.I'll paraphrase some comments screamed from the employment specialists during session:"you will work when no one else wants to work...you will work at night when it's cold and rainy...you will work every holiday...you will miss your children's birthday party,little league game etc..you will work 12 hours,sleep 6 hours,and be called back for duty,14 days in a row...If you miss two calls,you will be terminated...violate a rule and you're gone.It was unbelieveable,but I knew they were being honest and accurate.I didn't get an initial interview, and I want to take this time to thank them for recognizing an individual who realized that endentured servitude ceased many years ago. I challenge all to list jobs that are worse than the operating jobs on today's railroads.

[eolafan]

All I can say is WOW, and repeat what my dear departed Grandmother used to tell me..."Whenever you think you've got it bad, there's ALWAYS somebody else out there who has it worse!". There's a lot of truth in those old sayings I guess.

[Anonymous]

All my interviewer could talk about was drug problems, lousy working conditions and hours, Attitude problems, speeding tickets, safety concerns and that I should "kiss off" any idea of having a normal life. They tried everything in the book to scare me off.

At the time, mid 1990's, I said okay. I told them I was still fairly young, wanted to travel, didn't mind working strange hours and had no one to take care of other than myself. I also told him that I was willing to do whatever they told me and that I believed in following the rules and expected everyone else to do the same since I had already seen my share of dead bodies (used to be an EMT and volunteer firefighter). I also told them that I didn't use drugs and that I wouldn't tolerate anyone using drugs on my crew or working anywhere around me including the terminal manager who was sitting right there at the table. I even volunteered to take the drug test then and there!

I really thought that I had aced the interview and that I had made a positive impression on the interviewers.

They said "thanks for coming in, we'll be in touch".

I got a letter in the mail two weeks later telling me I was on the list but that I had not been selected for any of the current openings!

A friend of mine who joined the UP several years later told me that 90% of the new guys who have been laid off for more than six months are not coming back when they get recalled. They have since found other jobs, like having regular hours and although they enjoyed their time working on the railroad....don't want to come back.

Meanwhile, the UP is doing just about everything they can to fire or disapline the workers they still have.

Strangest labor-management relationship I've ever seen in any industry.

[Anonymous]

There was a time when I was willing to work in that environment- I was young and dumb..full of----.The strategy was to work the job, exorcise the railroad bug out of my system and quit.They must have seen that....not.That would mean they were astute and intelligent.They got lucky."A blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then."

[Anonymous]

god help theem....... There has been a fight between hr and up dispatch managers to hire more women.. also many female dispatchers dont make it and once they dont cut it they cant get rid of theem."The reason why they dont make it is that women like to fix and change the problems they see they just cant conform and go w/ the flow" that quote was from a female dispatcher in omaha.....They have gotten constant pressure from the goverment too hire more women...
they cant hire women for switchmen 100% of theem
get hurt the only woman we had working at my location went to management.dispatchers have a hard job and its not dealing w/ the crews its dispatching egos the fight between the coradork
manager and power desk and train management and local managers and cms they all want a diferent train first.good luck ladies my your butts conform to your chairs

[Anonymous]

Did you hear about the major UP terminal that had just opened a new operation in their yard?

They had the local TV crew there to get the story on the new operation. The terminal manager is live on TV, bragging about what a great improvement this is going to be for the local area and the economy, blah, blah, blah.

And while he is talking....BOOM, SCREECH...the switch crew derails a car right behind him while the TV crew is filming. Nothing major, just a truck riding up out of the rails.

The terminal manager is so pissed off he fires the crew that day! The union gets involved and tells the Terminal Manager that the two local switch crews are working 12 hour shifts and yes, they are bending every rule in the book to get the work done in twelve hours.

IF, the crew gets fired they promise to diligently obey every rule which the terminal manager knows will tie up the terminal, require two extra crews and four more locomotives to get the work done in the alloted time. Plus they threatened to go back to the local TV station and tell everything!

As a compromise, the crew was transferred to some God forsaken outpost for a two week punishment tour before being allowed to return to their regular assignment.

What a way to run a railroad!

[eolafan]

Somehow I can't help but wonder if UP management is reading all of these posts, but I SURE HOPE THEY ARE FOR THE SAKE OF ALL OF THE UP EMPLOYEES AND FOR THAT MATTER THE ENTIRE RAILROAD!

[Anonymous]

What makes you think they care? Since you took the job,they can only assume you are an idiot,and they don't care what idiots say or think.If they don't care what their customers say or think,you know the employees are in deep stuff.

[eolafan]

The one and only reason for their management to "care" is the age old proven fact that if a companies management gets stupid enough, then they will run the company into the ground, and EVENTUALLY the consequences will even come back to haunt the managers. That's all.

[Anonymous]

Precisely Watson.Railroads don't attribute their lackluster "return on share holder's equity" to operational employees.Their problems are greater and far more complicated.They wish it was that easy.There is no shortage of "the desperate and mis-guided"and the cost to continually recruit and train operational employees is like rent, water or electric costs.

[Anonymous]

If you think the managers who conducted your interview were lost try working for them everyday ! Trust me, be thankful you didn't get hired ! Being A railfan and working for A railroad are two different things !

[Anonymous]

THE TRUTH
THE ONLY THINGS THAT WILL CHANGE THE WAY THE RAILROADS ARE RUNN IS
1 BREAK THEEM UP (WONT HAPPEN)
2 WORKERS NEED TO STICK TOGETHER (WONT HAPPEN)
3 REGULATE THEEM AGAIN (MORE LIKELY)
LOOK AT THE US INTERSTATE SYSTEM W/ POPULATION BOOMING MORE AND MORE TRUCKS ON THE ROADS AND MORE CARS... LARGER TRUCKS IS A PROBLEM AS WELL.
HEAVY TRUCK POUND THE ROADS AND STATES CAN'T AFFORD TO FIX THEEM...
RAILROADS AND MANAGEMENT EVERYWHERE WONT CHANGE
THEY DONT CARE THEY KNOW SOMEONE WILL STILL USE THEEM AND SOME TRUCK BIZZ WILL HAVE TO COME BACK AS WELL.
THE FUTURE WILL SHOW IF THEY WILL CHANGE BUTT I DOUBT IT AFTER ALL THERE USING THERE BA OR MBAS
AND IM USING MY HANDS
THEY WILL CALL YOU EVERY NAME IN THE BOOK BUTT WHEN THE TRAIN IS BROKE IN TWO THROUGH A CROSSOVER YOU ARE THE GREATEST MAN IN THE WORLD
AND AT THAT TIME YOU ARE THE MOST POWERFULL PERSON ON THE RAILROAD
NO MATTER HOW HARD THEY TRY THEY CANT CHANGE A KNUCKLE FROM THE BOARD ROOM
AS SHOWN YESTERDAY THE PMA IS TRYING TO BREAK THE LONGSHOREMANS UNION JUST LOCK EMM OUT COST CONSUMERS MILLIONS JUST CAUSE A GUY RISKS HIS LIFE UNLOADING CARGO AND MAKES AS MUCH AS A UPER MANAGER MAKES...
THE DANGER OF YOUR JOB IS ONE LARGE PART OF YOUR PAY SCALE SO WHAT OF A DOCK WORKER MAKES 100,000 A YEAR HE MIGHT DIE DOING IT...
IVE NEVER HEARD OF A MANAGER GETTING KILLED BY A FALLING BOX IN THE BOARD ROOM
IF IM WRONG I WANT VIDEO

[BRAKIE]

You should hear some of the truckers whine about their jobs! You would think they should have known what they was getting into.

[Mookie]

Having read all of the replies, I think all of them could apply to most jobs. Management makes a lot of money and most of them couldn't manage a herd of turtles. They make life miserable for people who want to do a good job and get paid fair wages, with their "mis-management".

So, does anyone have any ideas of how to correct the situation the nation seems to have gotten itself into, or will it just remain status quo?

Seems pretty bleak to me....

[Anonymous]

Perserverance,determination and lot's of cold beer...what else do you expect from the proletariate?

[Mookie]

ok - that is one possible solution - I know we aren't going to solve the problems of the world in this forum, but this seems to be a common thread throughout the business world and not just with a particular company. But since we started with the UP - what other things can be done, when you are up against something as large as the UP Corp? Otherwise we will all go "round the bend".

[Anonymous]

Pray for a Jack Welch-type leader.

[Anonymous]

And the UP is not the only one doing stupid things.

A friend who works for the BNSF told me he watched his railroad recruit and train locomotive engineers at company time and expense only to lay them off when they returned from the training school.

After nine months of training, these new engineers, with Federal license in hand....walked across the street and signed on with the UP who immediately put them to work.

My friend said that he tries to be careful with equipment and doesn't want to waste or damage BNSF property....and yet management is blowing tens of thousands of dollars training engineers for their competitor.

[Anonymous]

How to change the industry? Identifying the management problems is one step. And this is true of many industries.

Seems that too many decisions in the corporate world these days are over reactions to the normal ebb and flow of business and the economy. Inexperianced business managers don't know how to ride the wave and resort to dramatic cuts instead. Then when the business picks up...they can't handle the volume and the expenses increase because they have to rebuild the companies infrastructure all over again.

A good manager knows how to ride the wave through the good times and the bad. They are far sighted enough to plan for downturns and slowdowns and also have contingency plans for taking advantage of the better situations and deals that come their way.

I think too many companies demand too much from managers who don't have the skills or experiance to overcome short term problems and thus they come up with draconian solutions such as:

Have a downturn in business....lay off a thousand people.

Stock prices flat in the third quarter....sell off your assets.

Inventory down...sell the warehouse.

Nothing to ship this week...sell off the transportation division.

Employee's complaining about layoffs...cancel the Christmas Party and Bonuses.

Need cash?...borrow from the employees 401 and pension plans.

Many companies today want to get rich quick. If the managers don't realize 10-25% growth this year they simply let them go and bring in the next "Whiz Kid" to give it a try.

Who was it that said "if you have 4% growth every year, after ten years that's a 40% increase".

[Anonymous]

Well Wichita, what do you think would happen to their return on shareholder equity, in the long run, if they placed a high priority on operational employees?? I would like to know.

[BRAKIE]

Jenny,I have no idea,but the problem seems to be getting worst in just about very line of work including railroading and trucking...I can not help but wonder if the upper mangement with all their schooling know which in is up when it comes to doing the work regardless of what line of work the company does.

[Anonymous]

Good for you R.K. I hope the newbies who are fortunate enough to work with you will learn something. I hope you realize that you will save lives and suffering from injuries. Good for you R.K.