Randy Vos
"Ever have one of those days where you couldn't hit the ground with your hat??" - Waylon Jennings
"May the Lord take a liking to you and blow you up, real good" - SCTV
Quentin
Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dldance Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:51 AM Thank U I am going to try to fit it in. Dies you book give you like streets that will get you to that merge point? Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
Originally posted by dldance Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by dldance [all the way to helper. Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply nslakediv Member sinceSeptember 2002 From: N.W. Ohio 166 posts Posted by nslakediv on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:20 AM Republic Hill at Republic Ohio, those of you from Ohio know what I'm talking, close as we get to hills around here. Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 10:02 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd SPBED - just follow US highway 6 from it's junction with I15 to Helper UT - you will parallel the route from the mouth of the canyon all the way to helper. email me and I will fill you in on the details. As for the WPRR/LA& SL junction, I have not been to it - but according to my maps, the main junction is west of the Kennecott copper smelter on the south side of the Great Salt Lake. I do know that there is a lot of traffic between the old DRG Roper yard and Provo to the south but UP used to use the track on the other side of the mountain for most through freight to avoid the Utah valley congestion. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:52 AM Yes that is exactly what I meant. coming from Hesperia a UPRR train can transfer @ Siverwood to the Palmdale track because the gradage is less then return to the BNSF track @ Keenbrook. The UPRR can naturally do it in the other direction as well coming from San B transfer from the BNSF @ Keenbrook use there own track up the grade as it is less then track #2 then return to the BNSF @ Silverwood to come down the hill via Hesperia/Victorville/Barstow & then again exit the BNSF @ Daggett. The BNSF is not permitted to utlize the Palmdale track only the UPRR can use it. [:o)][:I][:p][:D] I will be in your area late Aug this year[8D][:D][:p][8)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:39 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] The relatively new single “Silverwood” connector was only for non-Palmdale trains between Barstow and Colton to transfer between UP and BNSF lines, and duplicates the Keenbrook connector, but nearer to Summit. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:38 AM ...Sandpatch gains about 1200 ft. from Cumberland, Md. up to the summit at Sandpatch using multiple tunnels, curves and distance to keep the grade workable....believe most is double track and is original B&O route. Seem to remember some of the grade ranges around 2.2%. Pennsylvania's route up and over the same mountain range of the Allegheny's is about 12 miles of 1.8% grade {established in 1854}, and curves including Horseshoe....Grade gains about 92 ft. acorss the ends of the large Curve. Tunnels for 3 tracks cut through the last part of the mountain to make the crossing a few hundred ft. below the actual mountain summit. Saluda Grade at Saluda, NC is several miles of 4.7% grade and uses no tunnels to gain the summit at Saluda. It required doubling or tripling the train to do the assending...Train had to stop at the summit before decending and make special brake preparations. Grade was {is}, several miles long...Track is not in use now...{NS} but is not abandoned. I won't try to address the western grades since I've just traveled over some of them and not actually visited most on the ground. The above eastern ones I have. Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:36 AM Please locate this site for me as I will be in Utah end May early June. Also are you familiar with SLC & know where the merge point is between the old WPRR & the UPRR line from LAX? Thanks [:p][:o)][:I] Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Originally posted by dldance [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:29 AM I like Soldier Summit in UT. Even thought there is less traffic now than when the west coast steel mills were operating, there is still a lot of coal (both UPRR and Utah Railway), the Amtrak CZ, and several BNSF manifests each day. Good public access to the whole route and even a 3 track horseshoe on the east side. Three sets of twin tunnels as well. dd Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:21 AM Yes Sullivans is like a semi horseshoe so it can bend around the mountain. Since Cajon is your home turf try Caliente between Mojave & Bakersfield. There is a ground level horseshoe curve their either before they start upwards or are on the downhill exiting. The best is that their is you can get a end to end pix of the shoe because their is a overlook. The scenery their is also super. There is also a pssing siding so you can stand right next to a EBer waiting for the WBer to come by & take super head on shots as the WBer moves from the main to the passing siding.[:(][:D][:)] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier [br Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:06 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is. For the sake of Gabe's comparison of grades: Glorietta ................3.1% EB at MP 825.5 at Glorietta, NM Raton .....................4.03% WB at MP 649 (Morley, CO), 3.3 % EB at MP 653 (Lynn, NM) Cajon......................3.01 % EB at MP59-61 between Summit and Cajon Monument Hill ......1.42% at MP 52 NB / Palmer Lake (no compensation for curvature, i.e. straight grades) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 8:51 AM Yes it is real easy for me to say Cajon or Hesperia T/loop because I have never been to the Horseshoe curve in Pennsy or Saluda or for that matter any large grade in the east. I think for folks in the east it is the same in the other direction. Maybe out there is someone who has been to some of the top notch grades of the CSX & NS & UPRR & BNSF so they can gives us the differences between all the good ones. [:p][:o)] I understand the UPRR put in a connector between at both ends so they can access there own track coming from Palmdale to reduce the gradage they have to tackle. [:)][:o)][:I] Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Just think of a bigger version of Sullivan's Curve, then you have "Horseshoe"....The connecting tracks have been there on and off since 1987 and the failed SPSF adventure as was Colton. Trackage was even partially removed in the early 90's until it came out that it was cheaper signalwise to leave things as-is.
Originally posted by K. P. Harrier Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply K. P. Harrier Member sinceOctober 2003 7,968 posts Posted by K. P. Harrier on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:54 AM Cajon “Everything Stopped” Pass is my home turf, which makes it difficult to be objective on this topic. The 3% track 2 is killing fluidity. The pass will be a super place to watch trains again if BNSF ever puts in a second 2.2% line (i.e., a third track). ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed. Reply Modelcar Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: Muncie, Indiana...Orig. from Pennsylvania 13,456 posts Posted by Modelcar on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:32 AM ....Traversing the big ten curves on the way to Moffat out of Denver sounds like a great sight...I've never been right at that location that i know of so can't include it but it sounds like one I would list. Didn't we have a great black and white photo of one of those curves in a recent issue in TRAINS....I've read many times of the sight of Denver coming down off the elevation and seeing the sights at night, etc....My trip out through there via train {by Uncle Sam buying}, must have been up on the Empire Builder route many years ago.... Quentin Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 7:00 AM Sounds quite pretty but I have not yet done any Colorado rail fanning. Buuuuuuuut if you get to Cajon go west on 138 past the underpass for track 3 then jump the curb make a hard right go over track 3 down to track 2 & you can get super head on shots of trains coming round a bend struggling up the hill. [:o)][:I] Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by daveklepper Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:51 AM I see I am a loner on this one, so far. For me it is the Big Ten curves going up to the Moffat after leaving Denver. The scenery matches any of the others listed, riding the CZ or the Sk Train you get to view the power on one side and the other, as you go up you get to meet some interesting coal trains and perhaps and manifest (now rare) coming down, there are plenty of accessable photo locations, it has a great history (read Giant's Ladder), and descending in the evening one sees the lights of Denver and suburbs long before gets to the bottom of the grade. It a dramatic train ride and just watching at track side is high-drama also. Of course it was better when the genuine CZ and Yampa Valley mail and Prospector ran, but one cannot have everything. At least not yet. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:14 AM Well I to am more of a speed guy. Buuuuuuut when I was at Cajon it was really a sight to see 3 locos pulling a 2 mile train uphill all strung out in front of you. Now that I said that I think once you have seen & heard it the power of speed is still better then the power to drag a big consist up hill. If you ask me watching the UPRR bullet train flying by at a real hi rate of speed was the best vs watching a train struggling uphill[:D][:p][:o)] Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by SP9033 Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Thursday, March 31, 2005 6:05 AM OK thanks & understood. [:p][:D][:o)] Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by Modelcar Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 10:33 PM #1 East side of Alpine, Last 3 miles to the tunnel #2Tennessee from Minturn to the top Reply Edit 1234 Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.