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504 Gateway time out is back

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 15, 2024 4:20 PM

zugmann
You just volunteer yourself for head of the committee? 

If there are enough that would have me.

I could also host one or more servers if they sell them 'provisioned'.  I have a five-room office I only use two rooms of, fully wired for Cat 6e and emergency power...

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, May 15, 2024 4:14 PM

Overmod
I think by sometime first week in July, we all exchange such e-mail addresses here as we might want to use to contact each other....

I'd shoot middle of June, myself.  If it lasts that long...

You just volunteer yourself for head of the committee? 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, May 15, 2024 3:39 PM

For more context:

Steve Otte
The Forums are currently hosted on a physical server that's housed in a building that has been sold to a third party and must be vacated by July 15. Firecrown's purchase of MR, Trains, and the other magazines did not include these servers. Firecrown does everything "in the cloud" using services like Google. So the three options are: 1) launch a new Forum with new software; 2) ditch the Forum altogether; or 3) copy the current buggy Forum to another server in the cloud somewhere. Now, I'm not privy to Firecrown's internal planning, but if I had to guess I would think those three options are arranged in decreasing order of probability.

In theory, the part of the forum 'framework' that can access, format, and serve past posts could be ported to an appropriate VM in the cloud.  But this might not have the exquisite back-end opportunities that the Telligent platform offered.  Might be different if there was still access to the original install or configuration package...

I think by sometime first week in July, we all exchange such e-mail addresses here as we might want to use to contact each other....

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Posted by zugmann on Wednesday, May 15, 2024 2:06 PM

Over on the model side, Steve Otte says the building that houses the servers has to be vacated by July 15th.   

 

So unless Firecrown decides to start their own forums (I wouldn't bet on it), this place is almost dead on the law.  Shall we meet in 5 years under the clock at Grand Central?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Wednesday, May 15, 2024 10:17 AM

samfp1943
Those were certainly different times, and those times are missed;  as is seen by, the drop in FORUM participation......

Very true!

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, May 14, 2024 7:10 PM

Flintlock76
Backshop

You're missing my point.  I'm talking about articles with executives and when they pushed EHH.  When's the last time that they had an actual "get out there and do it" article like JDI and DPM used to do? You can tell that their current product isn't working.  Just compare the paperstock used on Trains vs that on TRP. They got sold because they hit the iceberg and needed a rescue ship.

My thoughts exactly.  The last issue of "Trains" I saw had 54 or so pages.  My most recent issue of "R&R" from WRP has 82 and with the weight of the paper stock it feels like 100.

A couple of other Posters on this Thred have mentioned it, as well: 

The Moderation.   In the past, some of the Moderators have veen 'envolved'...

They seemed to participate, in discussions, the were available, the would respond, and they seemed to hold ratonal positions, as to the discussions that took place; Diuscuyssions tghat were wide-ranging at times.    

   Most of the ' regulars' knew who the 'agitators' were; as well as, who the one's who could hold an 'adult conversation', without use of ' ad hominem' assaults. 

 In other words The Moderator's, MDERATED!!   They werer good at their tasks, and were all pretty well liked, even after they dropped oiut of their offiucial roles of mederation......  Those were certainly different times, and those times are missed;  as is seen by, the drop in FORUM participation......My 2 Cents

 

 


 

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Tuesday, May 14, 2024 4:09 PM

Backshop

You're missing my point.  I'm talking about articles with executives and when they pushed EHH.  When's the last time that they had an actual "get out there and do it" article like JDI and DPM used to do? You can tell that their current product isn't working.  Just compare the paperstock used on Trains vs that on TRP. They got sold because they hit the iceberg and needed a rescue ship.

 

My thoughts exactly.  The last issue of "Trains" I saw had 54 or so pages.  My most recent issue of "R&R" from WRP has 82 and with the weight of the paper stock it feels like 100. 

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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, May 14, 2024 3:53 PM

You're missing my point.  I'm talking about articles with executives and when they pushed EHH.  When's the last time that they had an actual "get out there and do it" article like JDI and DPM used to do? You can tell that their current product isn't working.  Just compare the paperstock used on Trains vs that on TRP. They got sold because they hit the iceberg and needed a rescue ship.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, May 14, 2024 1:56 PM

Backshop

I think the content of Trains magazine itself may have something to do with it.  It has turned into an industry-lite news article mag.  WRP has more interesting magazines for railfans.

 
I have been reading TRAINS regularly since 1967 with a few scattered issues before that and it has always been more than just a railfan magazine.  The very first issue that I purchased in July 1965 had a leadoff story in "News and Editorial Comment" covering the introduction of EMD's 645 line, a nice historical story about Rio Grande's Monarch branch and an analysis of NYC's New York suburban service.  In later issues, there was a two-part story covering history, operations and analysis of the Belt Railway of Chicago.  And the list goes on.  Apparently, the younger enthusiasts don't want anything too serious.
The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by Backshop on Tuesday, May 14, 2024 1:06 PM

I think the content of Trains magazine itself may have something to do with it.  It has turned into an industry-lite news article mag.  WRP has more interesting magazines for railfans.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Tuesday, May 14, 2024 8:53 AM

zugmann
the heavy hand ruled hurt participation, IMO.   I know I am less likely (read: not likely) to put much effort into creating actual original content anymore.   You can keep the $6.95.  Even if you want to, who knows if it will post or you will get an error.   

The repeated removal of many posts and threads that had strong participation killed the interest of many. I don't know if that policy was out of ignorance of the effect or not, but the damage was done.

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, May 13, 2024 6:49 PM

Euclid
  But I don’t see why bannings and deaths would cause a trend of falling participation because deaths and bannings should be occurring at an average, consistent rate over time.  So I would think their effect could also be consistent over time.  What has not been consistent over time is the forum technical operation.   

I think the random nature of deleting active threads because of some arbitrary sliding ruler of what's on topic hasn't helped this site over the years either.  But let's be real:  just about all forums are dead.  So many other platforms out there. 

 

I get it, moderating a forum is like herding cats with a garden hose, and some people can get a tad worked up,  but the times where the heavy hand ruled hurt participation, IMO.   I know I am less likely (read: not likely) to put much effort into creating actual original content anymore.   You can keep the $6.95. 

Even if you want to, who knows if it will post or you will get an error.  

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, May 13, 2024 6:40 PM

tree68

  With only six Class 1's now, regional interest lags, too.   

I'm on a few regional railroad FB pages.  The Reading & Northern, Wheeling & Lake Erie and Lake State Railway all have very active forums.  Anytime that I've asked a question about planning a trip to one of them, I've had good answers within an hour or so.  The Vermont Rail System group is much less responsive.

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, May 13, 2024 6:32 PM

BaltACD

Participation is down due to a number of bannings and a number of deaths with few if any new participants coming on board.

The slipshod operation of the board's software has made it problematic for anyone to withstand the aggravations.

 

Yes I can see the emergence of the software malfunctions suppressing participation by causing members to leave, and also causing would-be members to not join.  This is because the problem is new, and imposing its effect for the first time.  But I don’t see why bannings and deaths would cause a trend of falling participation because deaths and bannings should be occurring at an average, consistent rate over time.  So I would think their effect could also be consistent over time.  What has not been consistent over time is the forum technical operation. 
 
One auxiliary problem caused by forum technical problems is that the sudden drop in participation reduces forum content.  A reduction in content also suppresses participation.  
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Posted by tree68 on Monday, May 13, 2024 6:24 PM

A once active firefighting forum hasn't had a post in months.  People have passed, moved on, or whatever.

It's funny, in a way.  The stuff we complain the most about on fora is the very same thing that generates activity - posts with some form of controversy.  

I suspect, too, that at some point, most of the questions that could be asked have been asked (as has been pointed out when a newby does ask a question).  With only six Class 1's now, regional interest lags, too.  

LarryWhistling
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Posted by adkrr64 on Monday, May 13, 2024 6:05 PM

I suspect the decline in forum participation is something beyond just this one. I follow a couple of forum topics on railroad.net, and that forum site software works near flawlessly. 10 years ago there would be at least several posts a day and several new topics per week. Now it is common to go several days between posts, let alone new topics. People seemed to have moved on to other types of social media, I.e Facebook, Instagram, etc.

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, May 13, 2024 4:15 PM

Participation is down due to a number of bannings and a number of deaths with few if any new participants coming on board.

The slipshod operation of the board's software has made it problematic for anyone to withstand the aggravations.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by Euclid on Monday, May 13, 2024 3:07 PM
Participation in this General forum is indeed very low now.  But it was not always so. It seems to me that this falling participation is something that began in just the last few years.  Prior to that, I would estimate the average number of active, frequent posters was maybe 100, and the number new threads per day was maybe 10. 
 
To make a decision on how to proceed with the forum, it would help to know why the General forum participation is falling.  It may be a natural decline based on user interests and habits.
 

Or it may be because of all the recent technical problems that are limiting participation. So I think that before trying to solve the operation problem with an entirely new system, it would be better to first find out what the current technical operational problem actually is.  Why not have the problem professionally diagnosed and then get a price quote to fix it?  Then fix the problem and maybe the participation will shoot back up to pre-2020 levels.  

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Monday, May 13, 2024 2:14 PM

It would work for me as part of the "unlimited" membership benefits.

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Posted by charlie hebdo on Monday, May 13, 2024 1:11 PM

I wonder how many of the primary posters plus non-posting regular readers would pay for the dubious privilege of entry to a dying forum?

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, May 13, 2024 11:36 AM

Backshop
is it really worth it to keep the forums up and running when there's only about 25 regular posters and some of them don't subscribe?

A more important question would be whether it makes better sense to 'monetize' the forums by including them in a trains.com Unlimited type of subscription.  All that would change is that you'd need "valid" trains.com sign-in credentials (which would only work if your suscription was current, as for all the other digital collateral that constitutes "IP") which is something that's already been debugged and set up on a 'modern' basis.

The 'fair' thing to do in that case would be to 'reimburse' the frequent posters or useful idiots with credit equal to the time and effort put in, applied toward their "$6.95 per month" in the month(s) that contributions are present.  Now that we can expect more funding the Kalmbach 'experience' to be provided in the new organization, I suspect there would be members of staff who could make a fair evaluation and provide a sensible accounting of how that might be done.

There is the additional question whether merely reading threads on the forum, referred from all the Google and other bot 'indexing' (some of which is remarkably fast, indexing and providing links to posts that in some cases are only seconds old!) should be allowed to people who haven't signed in (or paid dues).  There are plenty of examples where Google displays text that cannot be searched or read when actually trying to reference a given source...

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Posted by Backshop on Monday, May 13, 2024 9:37 AM

I never go to the MR or CTT forums, just Trains and Classic Trains.  With the magazines having subscription in the many tens of thousands, is it really worth it to keep the forums up and running when there's only about 25 regular posters and some of them don't subscribe?

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, May 13, 2024 7:46 AM

blue streak 1
Dear trains got another hit Sunday evening about 23:00.  These 504s are so tiring.

Ditto

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Monday, May 13, 2024 12:12 AM

Dear trains got another hit Sunday evening about 23:00.  These 504s are so tiring.

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Posted by Erik_Mag on Sunday, May 12, 2024 10:11 PM

tree68

I have a hosts file.  Granted, it's a Windows thing

The "hosts file" is pretty much standard with any OS that uses DNS software that was derived from the orginal Berkeley (Go Bears!) software. This includes just about every variation of UNIX (Solaris, Linux, BSD's (MacOS userland is BSD), HP-UX, IRIX, AIX, QNX, etc) along with MS-Windows. The standard UNIX file is usually in the /etc directory i.e. "/etc/hosts", though MacOS stores it in the /private/etc directory, and thus "/private/etc/hosts".

The advantage of the "hosts" file is that it just has to be set up once on the computer (though may need updating), doesn't cost anything and should work with any browser.

Addendum: Got hit by the 504 error message when posting - post succeeded, error came while refreshing the webpage.

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Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, May 12, 2024 9:35 PM

Microsoft operating systems security has more holes than swiss cheese.  Every time I see a company get hacked or ransomwared I have a good laugh.  Microsoft will never learn. Unix operating systems have a program built into the operating system itself called selinix which stands for security enhanced linux. It was first created by the NSA to help secure their systems.  As far as I know, haveing retired in 2010 they are still using it. A version was eventually released into the public domain and is constantly being upgraded.

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Posted by CMStPnP on Sunday, May 12, 2024 8:32 PM

Erik_Mag
That was my take as well. FWIW, I've been able to set up Firefox to kill the ads by the simple expedient of enabling HTTPS only mode and setting enhanced tracking protection to "strict". Do wish the advertisers/websites take note that ads that don't cover content are less likely to be blocked. Ads can also be created to be worth reading/watching in their own right, Analog Devices "Rarely asked questions" was often a more interesting and useful read than the content in the magazines they appeared in. 3 days without a 504 error...

I still get them but I don't want to go through the hassle of changing web browers, though I might start using Edge to access the website instead of Chrome.   For some reason everyone gives priority to testing Microsoft over other products.   Ad distributors do not care what garbage they send out.....I noticed.

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Posted by tree68 on Sunday, May 12, 2024 8:28 PM

caldreamer

  There is a free ad blocker called Adblock Plus.  It is an add on to Firefox and works very well.  I have been using it for years.  No ad of any kind on my system.

I have a hosts file.  Granted, it's a Windows thing, but I see virtually no ads and I don't have to worry about the ad blocker being malware itself.  Most of the ads come from just a few sites.

I can't click on the "sponsored" ads if I search for a product, but the same site usually shows up further down the results list.

Use your favorite search engine for more info on hosts files.

LarryWhistling
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Posted by BaltACD on Sunday, May 12, 2024 6:00 PM

caldreamer
  There is a free ad blocker called Adblock Plus.  It is an add on to Firefox and works very well.  I have been using it for years.  No ad of any kind on my system.

I have been using U Block on Chrome without issue.

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by caldreamer on Sunday, May 12, 2024 5:53 PM

  There is a free ad blocker called Adblock Plus.  It is an add on to Firefox and works very well.  I have been using it for years.  No ad of any kind on my system.

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