adkrr64 charlie hebdo Nobody is forcing you to buy. Some states are in fact forcing people to buy EVs: https://abc7ny.com/electric-vehicle-new-york-zero-emissions-cars/12279246/
charlie hebdo Nobody is forcing you to buy.
Some states are in fact forcing people to buy EVs:
https://abc7ny.com/electric-vehicle-new-york-zero-emissions-cars/12279246/
Other states are realizing EV's under current laws are not paying gasoline taxes and are starting to come up with other means of taxation for them.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
charlie hebdo tree68 charlie hebdo anti EV Not anti - but until the driving experience is equal to an ICE, I won't be buying one. That means ten minute "fill-ups" and a 500 mile range, which is what I have right now. Charge overnight in garage. They sre much peppier driving, quiet and better for the environment. This is an issue that transcends individual choices. If traveling, an extra 20 minutes won't hurt. You can get coffee or some treats. Or consider a PHEV (plug-in hybrid). Nobody is forcing you to buy. The manufacturers are shifting to meet standards.
tree68 charlie hebdo anti EV Not anti - but until the driving experience is equal to an ICE, I won't be buying one. That means ten minute "fill-ups" and a 500 mile range, which is what I have right now.
charlie hebdo anti EV
Not anti - but until the driving experience is equal to an ICE, I won't be buying one.
That means ten minute "fill-ups" and a 500 mile range, which is what I have right now.
Charge overnight in garage. They sre much peppier driving, quiet and better for the environment. This is an issue that transcends individual choices.
If traveling, an extra 20 minutes won't hurt. You can get coffee or some treats.
Or consider a PHEV (plug-in hybrid).
Nobody is forcing you to buy. The manufacturers are shifting to meet standards.
charlie hebdoNobody is forcing you to buy.
I'm with Larry in that I don't have an issue with EV's in general, but I do have an issue with mandating EV's. My experience with EV's was from using an EV to get to/from work and the Irvine station in 2014. EV's were ideal for this as they could be recharged overnight at the station.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Just as those folks most opposed to higher and high speed passenger rail have never ridden in a modern ststem, those anti EV and anti PHEV and anti-electric and hybrid freight have never experienced any of them. Coal freaks? Nostalgia addicts?
I see his point about puerile memes, though... funny though they might be.
Wit was the Julia-Louise Dreyfus's Mercedes AA video (from 2016!)
And this is what a witty response looks like:
https://twitter.com/MercedesBenzUSA/status/722143311977439232?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E722143311977439232%7Ctwgr%5Ef5dfff3beb18749572608c929c9802a741d22a63%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theverge.com%2F2016%2F4%2F19%2F11460292%2Fmercedes-benz-snl-aa-battery-powered-car
Somebody say wit?
https://www.instagram.com/toprank_ivi_sean_morris/p/Cj0Vx8AL_Jf/
https://www.reddit.com/r/terriblefacebookmemes/comments/yxtacq/driving_an_electric_car_makes_you_less_of_a_man/?rdt=53907
Then of course there's Philly, where a cheesesteak is either "wit" or "witout."
https://www.tastingtable.com/1190244/when-ordering-cheesesteak-in-philly-be-ready-to-answer-wit-or-witout/
n012944Which is a ignorant meme not backed by facts. In 2023 only 16.2% of the electricty produced on the US came from coal. faq.php A number that continues to drop. 2022 the number was 20% 2021 21.9% 2020 22.5% and that was the 1st year that more power was produced by renewable energy than coal. However those facts doesn't get the blood going of the "rolling coal" ideologue, so it doesn't make a good meme.....
You're so right. Even on here, a forum supposedly about modern transportation, the posts are mostly contemporary contrafactual Luddisms disguised as wit.
Flintlock76 n012944 Which is an ignorant meme not backed by facts. As Foghorn Leghorn used to say: "It's a joke, son!"
n012944 Which is an ignorant meme not backed by facts.
As Foghorn Leghorn used to say: "It's a joke, son!"
Except some people believe it. When they are not parking their jacked up pick up trucks in front of car chargers or ranting about wanting people wanting to improve the environment.
An "expensive model collector"
Flintlock76 Backshop Now, natural gas is being seen as "bad". Yeah, go figure! NG was considered a godsend as it didn't pollute like coal or even oil did, now it's BAD! Can you imagine if all the gas kitchen stoves in this country were coal-fired like they were in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, and that gas stoves were considered "The answer to a maiden's prayer!" when they came on the scene? PLUS you could turn a gas stove off instantly while you couldn't turn off a coal stove without extinguishing the fire and then could only start the fire again with difficulty? And THEN you had the ashes to dispose of? Where do these idiots who haven't a CLUE come from? Coal is bad, gas is bad, oil is bad, hydro-electric is bad, windmills are bad because they kill birds, solar panels are bad because they're eyesores and take up green space. And you can't even mention nuke plants without giving some people an attack of the vapors. Isn't there some way we can tell these people to just shut the hell up and go away?
Backshop Now, natural gas is being seen as "bad".
Yeah, go figure! NG was considered a godsend as it didn't pollute like coal or even oil did, now it's BAD!
Can you imagine if all the gas kitchen stoves in this country were coal-fired like they were in the 19th and early 20th Centuries, and that gas stoves were considered "The answer to a maiden's prayer!" when they came on the scene? PLUS you could turn a gas stove off instantly while you couldn't turn off a coal stove without extinguishing the fire and then could only start the fire again with difficulty? And THEN you had the ashes to dispose of?
Where do these idiots who haven't a CLUE come from?
Coal is bad, gas is bad, oil is bad, hydro-electric is bad, windmills are bad because they kill birds, solar panels are bad because they're eyesores and take up green space. And you can't even mention nuke plants without giving some people an attack of the vapors. Isn't there some way we can tell these people to just shut the hell up and go away?
Everything is good at first. When it comes to a scale of developement where it is or might be viable, and thus not requiring all deplorables to change their ways of living, it then becomes bad.
Jeff
VERY clever! And very entertaining!
Good to know, we all may wind up doing something like this!
Flintlock76 BaltACD Electric Stoves. Referring to my last paragraph where's the juice supposed to come from since the Greens can't even come to a common cause on the subject? PS: We've got an electric stove and have no problem with it, although Lady Firestorm would have preferred gas. Me too in fact, gas stoves still work during blackouts. Oh well, there's always Sterno.
BaltACD Electric Stoves.
Referring to my last paragraph where's the juice supposed to come from since the Greens can't even come to a common cause on the subject?
PS: We've got an electric stove and have no problem with it, although Lady Firestorm would have preferred gas. Me too in fact, gas stoves still work during blackouts. Oh well, there's always Sterno.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVBR3HNjlYw
Flintlock76PS: We've got an electric stove and have no problem with it, although Lady Firestorm would have preferred gas. Me too in fact, gas stoves still work during blackouts. Oh well, there's always Sterno.
NY has banned everything but electric in new construction at some point in the near future. Once again, we just know the electricity fairy will come up with the power...
I wouldn't count on Sterno - NY is also talking about banning single use LP cylinders. Sterno can't be far behind. I think CA already has...
Just move into our "15 minute cities" and we'll take care of you...
BaltACDElectric Stoves.
n012944Which is a ignorant meme not backed by facts.
Electric Stoves.
BackshopNow, natural gas is being seen as "bad".
Erik_MagFor electric generation, my guess the optimum mix would be nuclear for base load, solar (in lower latitudes) for daytime peaks, electric energy storage to handle evening demand and natural gas to make up for the shortfalls.
You could run enginion boiler and superheater burners on town gas, but it would be relatively dangerous (and town gas is no longer economical to make 'green' or even 'blue'...). In theory you could run them on hydrogen, but it would not be long until the booming started. Very expensively for whoever was the service provider or equipment manufacturer unless they had some form of statutory immunity...
Distributed power now is a combination of solar generation of various scales and the Tesla-style 'powerwall' storage charging from both solar and, during low-demand periods, grid. All the 'smart islanding' stuff is in principle available, although it needs a little refinement to make it 'hacker-proof' and immune from clever electricity mooches and thieves. Whether or not we leverage 'emergency home generation' (mostly with natural gas or equivalent) remains to be seen, but it is about as amenable as large-scale solar to amortized or financed or subsidized incentives -- more and more so as we enter the age of third-world-style rolling brownouts or scheduled outages.
Does have to be said that ground-source heat-pump conversion is an interesting method of lowering major sources of demand... and much of the implementation can be done using at least renewable sources (zero-net-carbon, which I think is the thing to shoot for first if atmospheric and ultimately oceanic carbon reduction is the aim).
I keep seeing indications of people who are gearing up to run a Sabatier process on large amounts of atmospheric CO2 (which they claim to be able to extract at under $250/ metric tonne of gas) and some suitable method of green hydrogen separation (which they have similar low-cost claims for.) Sabatier is exothermic, so it produces what might be useful process heat, and the 'monomer' gas that results is a useful building block for many materials if you want to sequester carbon without supercritical storage...
Overmod If 'zero-carbon' is the priority, natural gas is as bad as coal.
If 'zero-carbon' is the priority, natural gas is as bad as coal.
I would also add that wind isn't much better than natural gas due to the need for concrete, steel, etc needed to make a wind turbine. A combined cycle gas turbine (CCGT) plant uses a small fraction of the materials that an equivalent in wind generation would require. This is also avoiding the subjects of transmission lines to remote sites, and how to make up for the intermittent power output from wind.
FWIW, the reduction in coal use has been driven more by the reduction in natural gas prices than by the rise in renewables. Due to coal plants needing to put out at least 30% of capacity, coal plants are usually operated as base load generation, which renewables are not a replacement.
In my opinion, the push for 'zero-carbon' is the wrong way to go, as there is no generation that doesn't involve some production of CO2. The more realistic approach is focusing on minimizing total carbon production. For electric generation, my guess the optimum mix would be nuclear for base load, solar (in lower latitudes) for daytime peaks, electric energy storage to handle evening demand and natural gas to make up for the shortfalls.
Note to "Tree": There is some optimum level of CO2 in the atmosphere, with lots of differing opionions of what that level is. It's almost certainly higher than the pre-industrial average of 280ppm.
CMStPnPThat is, that if we remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere...
All the trees will die...
Since trees and other plants are the primary source of renewable oxygen, eventually, we'll run out of it, too...
There's a balance - but the hard core folks don't seem to understand that.
I just saw that one of the bigger voices in the green movement thinks that trees are bad.
Coal was always a sort of a wretched fuel for electricity generation. There were very effective methods for 'clean coal' operation (most of which didn't get much press) including near-full sequestration for about 23% increase in what would be charged for electricity. But in an age where research is toward 'zero-carbon' and not 'zero-net-carbon' I don't expect to see any further development in this country, and the places elsewhere in the world still generating 'dirty' power don't seem to be concerned with very many of the clean-coal niceties.
If 'zero-carbon' is the priority, natural gas is as bad as coal. What isn't mentioned is that both wind and solar have considerable, repeating, and sometimes relatively short-term replacement costs, and relatively large aggregate stranded cost. The latter can, and has been, efffectively 'distributed' -- but not at the kind of scale required for even widespread automobile electrification. The former has simply been whitewashed, but it is not difficult to figure out.
I suspect the idea is similar to that we see being developed for automobiles: to raise the factor price of electricity to 'charge what the traffic will bear'. In theory that might be so great as to make carrier hydrogen begin to look cost-effective...
n012944 Flintlock76 tree68 Several years ago, GM was plugging their newest e-car when a reporter asked GM's flack where the power for charging the car came from. The flack's answer was "this building." After a little give and take, the exchange ended inconclusively, but the reporter contacted a local authority who confirmed that the electricity for the grid there (Lansing, MI) did, indeed, come from a coal burning power plant... Right, there's one of those pithy-to-the-point gag photographs going around titled "Where The Electricity For Charging Your Electric Car Comes From." It's a shot of a coal train parked next to a coal-fired power plant. If I can find it again I'll try and link it. Which is a ignorant meme not backed by facts. In 2023 only 16.2% of the electricty produced on the US came from coal. faq.php A number that continues to drop. 2022 the number was 20% 2021 21.9% 2020 22.5% and that was the 1st year that more power was produced by renewable energy than coal. However those facts doesn't get the blood going of the "rolling coal" ideologue, so it doesn't make a good meme.....
Flintlock76 tree68 Several years ago, GM was plugging their newest e-car when a reporter asked GM's flack where the power for charging the car came from. The flack's answer was "this building." After a little give and take, the exchange ended inconclusively, but the reporter contacted a local authority who confirmed that the electricity for the grid there (Lansing, MI) did, indeed, come from a coal burning power plant... Right, there's one of those pithy-to-the-point gag photographs going around titled "Where The Electricity For Charging Your Electric Car Comes From." It's a shot of a coal train parked next to a coal-fired power plant. If I can find it again I'll try and link it.
tree68 Several years ago, GM was plugging their newest e-car when a reporter asked GM's flack where the power for charging the car came from. The flack's answer was "this building." After a little give and take, the exchange ended inconclusively, but the reporter contacted a local authority who confirmed that the electricity for the grid there (Lansing, MI) did, indeed, come from a coal burning power plant...
Right, there's one of those pithy-to-the-point gag photographs going around titled "Where The Electricity For Charging Your Electric Car Comes From." It's a shot of a coal train parked next to a coal-fired power plant. If I can find it again I'll try and link it.
Which is a ignorant meme not backed by facts.
In 2023 only 16.2% of the electricty produced on the US came from coal.
faq.php
A number that continues to drop.
2022 the number was 20%
2021 21.9%
2020 22.5% and that was the 1st year that more power was produced by renewable energy than coal.
However those facts doesn't get the blood going of the "rolling coal" ideologue, so it doesn't make a good meme.....
It is true that coal plants are being regulated out of existence in the US.
Not in China, not in India nor Indonesia, which are three of the top four countries in the world in terms of population with approximately 3/8 of total world population between the three of them. (India 1, China 2, US 3, Indonesia 4)
Their planned additional gigawatts of new coal plants dwarf the coal capacity being retired by the US even if the US gets down to zero.
Meantime, the Wall Street Journal reported this week that the average price of electricity is up 30% in three years as low-cost power plants are retired and inefficient more expensive sources replace them.
The Class I railroads are all still grappling with making up for the loss of coal traffic.
Ironically, CN and CPKC are both less dependent on coal traffic than the four US Class I railroads, and most of their Canada-generated coal traffic is exported through Roberts Bank.
As long as we are on this topic or this new tangent to another topic. I am curious what people here think of this new philosophy that seems to be emerging among some circles. That is, that if we remove carbon dixode from the atmosphere than we can extend the live of fossil fuel powered vehicles, more specifically Diesel Locomotives via carbon offsets.
Review the STRATOS project in Texas which is part of this philosophy and is being built by Oxy. Their theory is this is a new revenue stream for Oil companies because CO2 is used in oil drilling (not sure how) and they can use the CO2 in operations while at the same time selling carbon offsets to industries like say railroads if they want to continue to run diesel locomotives.
Would be curious to know how railroads specifically feel about this as an alternative to converting to Electric, LNG or something else. Will railroads embrace carbon offsets or will they adapt an alternate power source.........or will they do both?
https://www.oxy.com/news/news-releases/occidental-and-blackrock-form-joint-venture-to-develop-stratos-the-worlds-largest-direct-air-capture-plant/
[quote user="tree68"]
Flintlock76 You know, depending on your age (I'm 70) we ALWAYS knew where the things we took for granted came from.
Seen elsewhere: Son to Father (on the cusp of a shocking discovery) - "Isn't it funny that a food (chicken) and an animal have the same name?"
It's said that there's one cow on Long Island, NY, and it's fiberglass. Some years ago, a NY state firefighter's competition was held here (very much dairy and beef country). There were reports that some Long Island firefighters, driving their fire department vehicles (of course equipped with siren and PA) were heard broadcasting over the PA, "Mooooo..."
I was born in this area, and grew up in then-rural southeastern Michigan. My mother grew up on a farm. At one point, we lived next to a farm in MI.
When visiting here from MI for vacation, I would sometimes stay with my cousins for a week. One of their chores was to head across the road (and the creek) each morning to pick up a couple quarts of milk. Sometimes we'd beat the cream in before pouring it on our cereal, sometimes it would get skimmed for making butter.
Today's kids largely have no clue.
[/quote]
YEPPERS! Most of these 'millinials' these days would starve to death in the local stores....even eith a can opener.....Thanks, that today, we have BRAUMS and Dillon's (Kroger).....
Flintlock76You know, depending on your age (I'm 70) we ALWAYS knew where the things we took for granted came from.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.