My question about the camera was regarding the engineer being able to see what the conductor was seeing, not a camera without the conductor. I didn't know if that would be useful or completely unnecessary since the movement was so slow.
By 'hand signals', from what I've found, it means the movement (vertical, horizontal, in a wide or smaller circle). I didn't have a clue that was 'hand' signals.
I was surprised to see that most of the lanterns still used alkaline batteries. Very few had options for rechargeables.
What percentage of conductors still carry a lantern?
Every day between 4 and 5 pm a BNSF freight train grinds to a halt just shy of the Temple, TX Amtrak Station. It then begins a series of back-and-forth movements to drop off and pick-up cars from the Temple Yard. The train is maneuvering through an "S" curve, which means the engineer and conductor cannot see each other. I have looked for the smoke signals, but having seen none, I have concluded that they are in radio contact with each other.
What happens if the radio link breaks?
The best part of the action is listening to the diesels when they begin to shove the train back into the yard. The roar is worth the 35-mile drive from my home to Temple to hear it.
Rio Grande Valley, CFI,CFII
adkrr64 4. As noted, use of personal cell phones are usually prohibited. In NORAC, though, there is verbiage in the rule involving shove moves that allow for the use of cameras to provide visibility in the direction of the shove. I don't know anyone using such technology, but it might be something that could be equipped on a shoving platform (aka caboose).
4. As noted, use of personal cell phones are usually prohibited. In NORAC, though, there is verbiage in the rule involving shove moves that allow for the use of cameras to provide visibility in the direction of the shove. I don't know anyone using such technology, but it might be something that could be equipped on a shoving platform (aka caboose).
See https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/218.99 for the legal requirements and https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/appendix-D_to_part_218 for "additional requirements".
The primary use case right now for cameras is fixed overhead cameras in a terminal, typically being monitored from someone in an office watching on a computer screen.
Other applications are allowable under the regulations. The way I read it, under the right circumstances you could stick an iPhone on an EOT device, put an iPad in the locomotive cab, and use Facetime to protect the shove. However, the circumstances include things that are not reliably available on the mainline, such as:
- A clear lens on the camera, not covered in dirt
- A reliable broadband connection between the iPhone and the iPad
- Enough ambient light to see the track through the camera
Dan
Opinions are my own and do not represent the views of BNSF.
Perry BabinWhen (in general) did railroads switch from communication by lamp to 2-way radio?
A large consideration there is the technology available. These days a handheld/portable radio will fit in a shirt pocket. Some of the early handhelds were rightfully called "bricks."
The late 70's and early 80's saw Conrail (and probably others) using a radio that was carried over one's shoulder on a strap. I've learned that one reason for the size of the radio at that time was that it used two good, old-fashioned lantern batteries - commonly used even today in the lanterns used by railroaders.
As ADK64 points out, sometimes hand signals are the desirable option.
Changing between radio and hand signals should involve a job briefing - as simple as "changing to hand signals." Every now and then folks have been known to throw out a hand signal instead of reaching for their radio.
Before radios became common, crews would often have to relay hand signals if the engineer could not see the person initiating the signal. Depending on the length of the train, that could involve multiple crew members.
#4 - When in doubt, take the safe course. Stop everything and talk it over. Maybe in person, maybe over the radio.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
adkrr64Rather than referring to "lamps", it would be better to refer to "hand signals". Lamps are the tool used in low light/ night time to make hand signals visible. As for your questions: 2. Hand signals are very much in use nowadays, especially when light locomotive moves involved (at least on the RR I work at). They can be especially handy in situations where there are two crews working in the same area, to avoid one having crew's radio communications "step on" another crew. 3. There are lamps specifically designed for railroad use. Here is an example. They can be used as a flashlight, but more important for RR purposes, they are visible from the side....
2. Hand signals are very much in use nowadays, especially when light locomotive moves involved (at least on the RR I work at). They can be especially handy in situations where there are two crews working in the same area, to avoid one having crew's radio communications "step on" another crew.
3. There are lamps specifically designed for railroad use. Here is an example. They can be used as a flashlight, but more important for RR purposes, they are visible from the side....
Brakeman lanterns have gotten hi-tech since the ones I was given to use in the 1960's & 70's. As I recall, there were two different types of bulbs available with one being brighter than the other and it had a higher battery draw. The carrier freely made the lower power bulbs available to trainmen, the higher powered bulb not so much. Batteries were also freely available - you don't want to be in the middle of a move and have your battery die. Company radios were not issued to trainmen at that point in time and very few engines had radios.
The switch to radios happened in the last half of the 1980's as the carriers began inplementing territory control tools other than Timetable & Train Orders and the elimination of Train Order Operator locations. The methods of territory control required personnel in the field to be able to contact the Train Dispatcher for movement authority
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The rule book still read that radio can supplant hand/lantern signals, not the other way around. Radio usage is so common, even at times when hand signals would be better, that even working railroaders forget that. (Some years ago a fairly new conductor got off the engine, walked across a road to line a switch to enter a siding. He returned to the engine. The switch had no normal position it could be left in the last positioned lined for. A company officer had been watching and came up on the engine. The CO wanted to write up the conductor for not taking his radio with him. The conductor was going to let this happen until the engineer intervened, reminding both that there was no rule requiring the conductor to take the radio with him everytime he was off the engine.
Cell phone use on a moving train in the controlling cab is prohibited by law. There are certain well defined exceptions, and those exceptions also require any use to be by someone other than the person at the controls.
Our rule book now only has 3 defined hand/lantern signals. It does allow other types of hand/lantern signals to be used as long as everyone on the crew understands the meaning of the "outlaw" signals. Those other hand signals can differ between railroads and even locations on the same railroad.
When doing my inital OJT many years ago I had a couple weeks at four different yards each. I learned that the hand/lantern signal to have the engineer accelerate a cut of cars to uncouple them in motion and let them roll by momentum into yard tracks (kicking cars) was slightly different between a couple of the yards. While all the yards were on the same railroad, at least for 30 plus years, two had once been on other roads. One was M&StL, the other CGW. The old ways often outlast the railroad that used them.
Jeff
There was an article around 1947 about a 28-pound trainphone for the guy on the ground to carry on his shoulder -- you're familiar with the PRR trainphone system? Some might say it's not strictly radio, but...
Were lunchbox-size radios the first in wide use, or were there bigger VHF radios to lug around, circa 1950?
Rather than referring to "lamps", it would be better to refer to "hand signals". Lamps are the tool used in low light/ night time to make hand signals visible. As for your questions:
3. There are lamps specifically designed for railroad use. Here is an example. They can be used as a flashlight, but more important for RR purposes, they are visible from the side.
Communication by radio probably began in around the late 1950's to early 1960's. Many roads marked their locomotives and cabooses as "Radio Equipped".
4. From what I've read and heard, the use of personal cellphones is prohibited.
1. When (in general) did railroads switch from communication by lamp to 2-way radio?
2. Are lamps (nowadays) ever used as an emergency way to communicate if one of the radios fails?
3. Do conductors carry railroad issued lamps (nowadays) or are they left to carry whatever type of flashlight they choose (assuming they choose to carry a light)?
4. Is there ever a need to have more than the verbal communication between the conductor and the engineer? For example, would video of what the conductor is seeing be better than verbal only? Today, it would be simple to set up a phone to be an IP camera that the engineer could pull up on his phone.
The numbers are there so that any replies can just reference one of the numbers instead of going through the quoting process. Quoting is also OK.
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