ANTI"BUFF"? WHY?

[Anonymous]

I'm just curious..........it seems that railroaders have a resentment toward raifans, "buffs", "foamers", or whatever you want to call us.
I don't understand why, exactly, that an individual seeking employment with a railroad who has a real interest in trains and railroading would actually have that count against him or her; in most other professions, job seekers who want a career for more than "just the money" have something of an "inside track" (pardon the pun)than the others who are only interested in the pay, benefits and perks.I also don't get you railroaders who seem to look down on us for actually ADMIRING what you guys do for a living! I've never had a job that anybody wanted except for the pay--I'd like to know how the other half lives, to be honest.

[BRAKIE]

Barry,There is many reasons why railroads don't like train buffs.I will name some reasons.This is not pretty.
Due to the many bad railfans that trespass on railroads,steal number plates,builders plates,switch stands (from years gone by) juction signs,whistle posts,and anything else they can walk off with,has given all rail fans a bad image and a bad taste in the railroads mouth.Can you blame them? The rail fans theirselves does not help the problem.like before NS dropped the steam program,most fans that I have talk to said what a great railroad the NS is.After the NS dropped the steam program whice it was their sole right to do,these vary same rail fans started bad mouthing NS and still does today.
One of the reasons railroads shunn hiring train buffs is many fold.I think the main reason is safety.They think you will be looking at other things and not be paying attention to your work and get hurt or killed.Very easy to do if you are not focus on your work at hand.
Now,I did work on the railroads (PRR and Chessie) I just forgot to tell them I was a train buff.They didn't ask,so I did not tell!
Now,durning the years I worked on the railroads,I did not railfan on the job as it is much to dangerous to do so..

[RudyRockvilleMD]

Is it really true that being a railfan disqualifys one from working on a railroad? I know of several railfans who are employed by the railroads, but I don't know if they admit to being railfans. It seems to me that having some knowledge about the industry you work for is a good thing.

Certainly, a few bad railfans seem to have given the whole railfan fraternity an undeserved bad name.

[Anonymous]

Larry:
That makes a lot of sense....I am also sure, now that I think about it, that it woud seem stupid, for example, that I would see a loco in a UP yard and either 1)know what kind it is and have an opinion about it even though I had never been on it or know anything about operating it (see any "EMD vs GE debate) or 2) take the time to look it up on the UP website....after all it is just a tool the real railroader works with....I don't know or care about the specs on the forklifts in the storeroom where I work.....
I guess I can also see someone in a yard drooling over some 4000+ hp monster and not bothering to notice another one bearing down on him.........I am also sure railroading is not always as "cool" and adventurous as it looks, and what is the foamer gonna do when he hires on and finds out that the "cool" EMD is kinda hot and uncomfortable inside, and most of the time your'e not highballing @70 mph but crawling @7?As far as trespassing and vandalism goes, I grew up 200'from RR tracks (Southern) and other than crossing them have never trespassed, hopped a moving or stationary freight, stolen anything etc.I realize that all of those negative issues exist but I just hate that the worst is often assumed with regards to people who admire your profession.

[Soo2610]

I have heard from more than one recruiter that if you apply for a railroad job and admit to being a railfan that you have automatically disqualified yourself from being considered for the job. I agree that it doesn't make sense. If you enjoy what you are doing, I would think you would be a good candidate for the job. I know of a number of full time railroad employees who donate their time off to the Illinos Railroad Museum in Union, Illinois to run and restore the equipment. I think that this just shows that they not only enjoy their jobs but are willing to share their experience and knowledge for the enjoyment of the general public on their own time with no compensation other than the sheer enjoyment of doing so. MY hat goes off to these people. They are the best promotional plug that the rail industry has and they aren't costing the industry a penny.

[Anonymous]

I'm not very clear on the definition of railfan. I'm shure thier are people who take it to rediculus extremes(just as some religion fans do), but I'll bet that most railfans are normal people who like trains. I don't take pictures, steal memorabilia, or bother crews; but I am very interested in how this super-sized equipment works. Railroaders are the "experts" we look to for answers(I'd think they would take pride the value we place on thier opinions, rather than looking down thier noses). I hope my doctor started out as a medicine fan, I hope my mechanic started out as a car fan, and I hope railroaders started out as railfans(I bet most did). How sad it would be if the majority of railroaders chose thier carear by what happened to be available at the job service office rather than pursuing what they realy wanted to do.

[Anonymous]

I think some railfans think it's all pretty good as they are usually trackside when it's nice and sunny and they are tucked up in there beds at night. I've made a lot of friends who are railroaders, dispatchers, engineers & brakemen.
I would say that the dispatchers have got the cushiest job sitting in a room(apologies to any dispatchers reading this)
I've been for cab rides many times and most of them have been great but a few haven't been, sitting in a cab for 2 hours waiting for an opposing train to make it up the grade in the rain, a ten hour run from three in the afternoon to 1am(though that one was fun too!) and having the overhead power go off and having to wait in a quickly chilling cab for it to come back on. I watched brakeman from the comfort(?) of a wooden seat on the depot platform while they switch cars in the pouring rain with a high wind blowing trying to keep their switch list dry.
My father worked for the railway before he got the letter and I remember either listening to him coming home or leaving to go to work when it was pouring with rain or in the middle of winter when the tempeture would be below zero being thankful that I was in bed and not out there. I think why railroads don't like to employ railfans is the majority probably think that it is a cushy job sitting down all day working a few levers back and forth(if you're an engineer).
I have not been employed by the railroad but through my friends and my father I know it's all not fun and games.
Adrian
New Zealand

[dknelson]

There are plenty of railroaders who are railfans of a sort, and I suspect they became railfans after they started work
I can certainly understand why the railroads are reluctant to bring in a railfan -- based on the notions of of "us" have about what is trespassing and what isn't, what is private property and what is free for the taking, what is "safe" behavior around trains and what isn't. I am sure there is bias and ignorance at work here, too, as well as a failure to make some distinctions.

[Anonymous]

Barry, most railroaders don't like the "buffs" because they themselves don't like their jobs and can't understand how someone would want to watch trains. The job has changed so much over the last 10 to 15 years, and not for the better. We get less time off to spend at home with the family. Work in all weather conditions, at all hours of the day or night. All of these things breed contempt for the job and all that goes with it. I don't know where you work but, do you need out of work insurance? We do! One mistake could mean your job.

You said you never had a job that anyone wanted except for the pay. give it 6 months on the property and that's all you'll want too, the money. You'll wonder why you ever hired on!

[Anonymous]

I believe that was the case in my experience.I was born with a love for trains. A few years ago I decided I should get paid for hanging around trains,so I attended a NS orientation for conductors.I had a successful and stable work history,attended college for two years and was/am very physically fit.On the application was a question:why are you applying? "love of railroading" was my response. Coincidence that I didn't make the first cut? I was pissed off and in serious disbelief.If I do it again,I'll show up unshaven,wear jeans and a t-shirt,list on my app that I have been fired twice in the last year and tell them the reason I want to work for the railroad is that I need the cash.

[Anonymous]

Barry, I think that most Railroads would rather hire a bum on the street with no life or education then hire a buff or foamer. I plan on working for BNSF when i get out of highschool and I am going to deny that I like trains and I'm intrested in them. Doesn't make since to me.

[BRAKIE]

LOL,CNphantom,Old buddy,what makes you think it was any better when I last work on the railroad in 85,compared to now? What you just said rings true for those days.The main difference that I can see we had 4 men crews while today there's 2 men crews,and the pay today is better then it was back then,and most of the younger railroaders whine about working the odd hours,holidays and ect today as they did back then..Todays railroads are safer then when I frist went railroading on the old PRR,it was a little more safer when I worked on the Chessie.The truth of the matter is railroading is not for everybody.Sure one maybe a train buff and thinks it would be cool to work on the rails,but,the illusion fades after the frist few weeks.Sure most railroaders love their jobs,love talking about it and are train buffs,I know I did and am still a train nut.Heck if I was young again I would return to railroading in a heart beat.
To those that are thinking about going to the rails for a job,I say go for it! You just might love it! Remember,you can always pull the big pin if you don't.Nobody will stop you.So,go for it!
To those working for the railroads now and don't like it,I say pull the big pin and find other work.But,do you really want to? Something is keeping you there right? Think about it! I am sure it will be more then just the pay.

[Anonymous]

I tried to hire-on...see earlier reply this am.

[Anonymous]

I guess I am not a buff. I am not willing to steal railroad property. I did pick up a very rusty spike on the sidewalk under a bridge once. The most serious tresspassing I have done is to cross unprotected tracks while hiking or surveying or to stand within 40 feet of the tracks to take a photograph for a bridge site I was to design. I would never impose on a railroader to find out what he thought about the 'this or that' but I have asked a flagman protecting a worksite how many trains usually pass this place on a usual day.

Even though I work in an office, we have our own 'goofs' who detract from getting work done by tinkering with the fancy computer hardware. I imagine this is similar to what railroaders think 'buffs' would do if given a job. In the end, it should be handled on a case by case basis.

MHO - Ed

[Anonymous]

Hello UNFRGVN338...The R.R. that I work at has more than it's share of 'fans'. Many of the employees profess not to be, but all of us are in some fashion. People who deny this are in denial to some extent. I love to get my hands on R.R. memorabilia that I know will be worth something down the road. It's fun to acknowledge something that is Americana. I would say we're all fans to a degree, and for R.R. employees to desparage them is rediculous. The only time when outrage is justified is when fans 'shunt' the rails or some such carry-on, so as to stop, or slow down a train to get a picture! This ruins it for the rest of the enthusiasts...Hommie

[Anonymous]

Larry, maybe where you work wasn't any better than it is today but CN sure was. Since we went from a crown corpoation to a private company the job has changed a great deal. We have trainmasters who never worked a day on the ground barking out orders, telling guys with 25 years service they don't do their job right.

You make it sound so easy to just give up a job you once liked and the senority which you have earned and start anew, it ain't easy pal. Maybe from where you're sitting,retired! The money, which you say is so much better than when you were working in '85. I've got news for you your salary bought a whole lot more in '85 than ours does now.

[Anonymous]

One thing I notice about some railfans is that they seem to view railroading as a form of entertainment rather than a business. If you go to a ball game,a concert,or an auto race you have every right to expect to be entertained as that's the business of the sports and music industry. But a freight railroad is in business to make money for it's shareholders by moving commodities.If some fans get in the way of this,it's understandable that the railroad companies crack down.

[BRAKIE]

LOL,Retired? Not likely! LOL. My job went out the door when the Caboose did! As far as the cost of living,it was the same then like it is now.Prices back then was just as high as today in the ratio of pay.Nothing has changed,wages goes up,prices go up.The working stiff works for a living and sometimes breaks even or gets a little ahead always did always will..
Buddy,listen,I don't know anything about how the Crown ran the CN,so I will take your word for it..If you think we didn't have jerks that told us how to do our job,even though they didn't know a air hose from a king pin,you're sadly mistaken.I found this out back in the 60s when I worked on the PRR.It got wrost when it became the PC.Any time you have a complete fool with a college degree that thinks he knows more then the workers(this applies to any type of job)you got problems.I recall a class 1 fool that had the nerve to tell the conductor how to switch cars.The conductor looked at him and said"Sonny,There can only be one conductor on this here train,and that happens to be me,so, let me do my work and you watch or you can do the work and I will watch".At this the jerk left and went whining to the Divison superindent. Nothing was ever said to the conductor,who had 33 years on the PRR.
As far as quiting,that is easy to do if one really wants to.Sure you give up alot,but,if one is no longer happy with the work,why stay? With all due respect it sounds like your no longer happy with your job.Or is it because you didn't like the change? Nobody likes changes in management that I ever head of,I don't know of any PRR employee that was in love the the PRR/NYC merger,same with the Chessie Seaboard/family lines merger,and the doing away of the caboose or even those one eyed job stealers,the EOTD.At lease you got to keep your job with the change.That is one thing you can be thankful for.Right? Nobody likes to be told how to do their work after many years on the job.One of these days management will find that out.Who knows more about doing the job more then the man that does it daily?

[Anonymous]

'Shunting' the rails is not only highly illegal here it's also bloody stupid. The trains that I see in the daylight here through my town hardly stop anymore and there are less of them, sure I bemoan the fact that they race through at about 45mph but I would never do anything to compromise the safe running of the trains.
Adrian New Zealand

[Soo2610]

I also tried signing on and made it to the final cut twice. I was well aware that the job was no picnic and still wanted to go for it. At least let me decide that I don't like it instead of arbitrarily cutting my legs off because I happen to like trains. I would think someone would have a better chance of succeeding if they start off thinking they would like the job rather than starting off hating it. I currently work retail and let me tell you, the pay and the hours both suck. "We are open longer hours to better serve you" is nothing but double speak for retail greed.Dealing with the general public today is becoming a big pain because everyone is out for themselves and the louder you yell and scream the more you get for nothing. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. It is always somebody elses fault.

[Anonymous]

being a rail buff dose not disqailify you from working for csx... anyone that passes the conductor schools entrance exams..passes the class..and passes the physical can work for csx... oh yea..back grownd checks too... but as for being a rail fan...nope..about 30% of the people that hired out when i did..are rail buffs...

[Anonymous]

What is ment by "shunting the Rails".

[wabash1]

shunting the rails is something i wont tell couse there will be somebody trying it or doing it after reading about it. but i dont like buffs for the reason that they always have a camera. and picture tell on the crew. if we are moving down the road and say smoking you take our pic. well thats a rule violation no smoking on the engines. also some of the new hire officials that are fresh out of collage to managment school dont have the sloghtest idea of what your doing and proceed to bust a crew for a minor infraction of rules. the thing is they are smart enough to dress like a buff. cant tell them apart except maybe no camera. otherwise i have no problem with buffs.

[REDDYK]

All I can add to this discussion is to relate this incident. While watching trains at Fostoria recently, doing the railfan thing, when another car drove up. after a while one of the two guys came over to talk. He was a CSX conductor, his buddy was an engineer, it was their day off. I asked about the "foamer thing". He said a few employees are clearly anti-fan, but most are railfans to some degree. Then he smiled and said " I can't get enough, I guess".

[Anonymous]

The railroads know that railfans are out there, and they do care about them to an extent. Why else would the UP be painting giant American flags on the sides of their units if nobody was gonna take pictures of them? But I do agree that railroading is a business first, entertainment second. I would never ask an engineer to slow a train down, but I would ask someone getting ready to throw a switch if he can tell me if he knows how soon the train will be coming down, if he is just standing there. I would never intentionally tresspass on railroad property, but I will set up camp somehwere out of the way and watch, unless someone from the railroad asks me to please move.

I'm still new to the railfanning scene, but I've read of a couple of rail excursions where the engineer knew the railfan and acknowledged him on the radio (Like "How are you this morning" or "No need to hurry, we have a slow order"). So there are railroaders out there who respect the railfan, but I guess it's a 2-way-street. It's like baseball: as long as you don't run out onto the field during the game, then the players are more than happy to have you there.

[Anonymous]

I am A conductor for the BNSF. First of all being A railfan and working for A class 1 railroad are two totaly different things. I myself was A 'foamer'. While I still enjoy watching different locomotives and the history of railroads it SUCKS to work for one! I think because the employees resent the company so much they look down on railfans because they think all we are doing is having fun and playing games. Trust me 12 hours day in and out and putting up with the political B.S. of the company will change your image of the 'hoby'! Don't get me wrong I enjoy railroading, I just wish we were all treated better.

[Anonymous]

I hear ya Desert dude.I'm glad NS considered me "unworthy" for employment.Today,I satisfy my fix by riding in trailing units and on the porch of a grain hoppers.

[Anonymous]

Well, you know what? I don't understand it either.
In my 25 years of railfanning, I've been met with both welcoming arms, and suspicion. One incident really stands out in my memory. Several years ago, my cousin and I were railfanning at Schoolcraft Michigan, at the depot, where the Grand Trunk crossed Conrail. We noticed a chunk of rail missing out of the "diamond", and I got on the dispatchers phone, that was un-locked, and told the dispatcher what I had seen. Well, the next train through stopped, and the crew was very thankful of our concern. We had most likely prevented a disaster. But, guess what, the next time we visited Schoolcraft, the phone box had a lock on it. Try to figure THAT one out.
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

Let me start out by saying that I've been a loco engineer for 25yrs.Currently I'm in a long intra-divisional frt.pool for a western RR.While growing up I always dreamed of becoming a engineer and today I'm living the reality of that dream.I still enjoy my job most of the time but it has its drawbacks.Long hrs away from home,working 24/7 night and day,bad weather and good,dealing with the college educated idiots who have no RR experience and call the shots,unrealistic pay for what we are reponsible for and are required to know and do.A UPS delivery driver makes a higher hourly wage than a yard engineer!I am one of many who don't look down at rail fans.Just try to remember we, who work on the RR have to live with railroading while on and off the job.While at home waiting for that call for a train on the line-up that was due 12hrs ago and still hasn't been called.So when you have a bad experience with a railroader it might be because he or she has had a long hard day or night.We are human to and sometimes we have a hard time understanding why others see the galmore of railroading.I do apologize if I have offended any of you in the past and will do my best to remember that rail buffs are human too.

[Anonymous]

I lived just up the road from the Asst Station master of a station I intend building shortly a few years ago. Out of the blue, I rang and asked to visit. He is now retired, and over 80 years old having spent his whole life in the railways (except fpr WW2).
I was rather disappointed that he was unable (or unwilling) to meet me, and in discussing this with other MR's, it is a common problem here in South Australia - old employees of tyhe SAR seem to be bitter and cynical.
DS