ANTI"BUFF"? WHY?

[Trainnut484]

I guess growing up in a small town brings some sort of advantage to railfan there at trackside, and not told to leave by an trainman or special agent. The special agent, yard crew, and some road crew members recognized me and my old pickup truck I drove. They saw it or me and knew what I was doing there and why. Now, the city police were a different factor. They never understood what or who railfans were until a few years ago. Also, some members of the general public has never heard of railfans. Even when they live close to the tracks LOL.

[Anonymous]

Too bad we railfanshave such a bad reputation. It does seem like some of us deserve it. But others , like me, if I do say so myself, are not harmful at all. I enjoy trains, enjoy knwoing about about their passnger equipment, etc have been fascinated by trains since I was 3. But I do not bohter anything (I am not of a mechanical bent, that probably helps that). The most "dangerousu" thing I ever do is take pictures.


When I was very young, (I am 58) when a train stopped in the station I would meekly lie to the porters and say "I have never been on a train before...may I go inside and look around?" And they usually said "yes". Of course I would not even ask for that if the train was due to leave soon(I already knew the schedules, etc). That is abut the most dangerous thing I ever did.

[Yampa2003]

Try coming over to Europe and getting a job on the railroad. Railfans are a lot more welcome. I reckon in the Operations department of one British company that more 50% are railfans of one kind or another. The only hindrance is if you apply for a Management Trainee post, then its a no-go. But some of them don't last long, soon get disillusioned with working all hours of the day or night.

[Anonymous]

I got lucky, saw an ad in the local newspaper, filled out an app.. Got an interview about 3 weeks later. 1 1/2 hour later i had the job and started about a month later

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BentnoseWillie

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

take pictures leave footprints.
stay safe
joe

I'll amend that:

Take pictures
Leave footprints
Bring coffee

Haven't been turned away yet [:)]

[:D]I've taken pictures of old ge engines on a ballast train smoking out the misquitoes[8D]
stay safe
joe

[BentnoseWillie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JoeKoh

take pictures leave footprints.
stay safe
joe

I'll amend that:

Take pictures
Leave footprints
Bring coffee

Haven't been turned away yet [:)]

[JoeKoh]

take pictures leave footprints.
stay safe
joe

[edblysard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman

From reading Trains Magazine I've gathered a little understanding of the attitudes of railroaders. I read those stories of experiences people have sent in and it generally seems the "bosses" sometimes have ego problems and also like to make the workers miserable which, in turn, the workers like to get back at them by telling them off or pulling a prank at least once in their career. A passenger train worker lets his supervisor oversleep then wakes him up as the train pulls out. He knows he'll be in trouble when the super. gets back, but it was worth. Another story is about a woman who worked in the yards and had a nice supervisor everyone liked until he retired and an ego-maniac took his place and everyone's life was miserable again. (It's late and I'm not gonna go dig the article out right now.)

There are many such stories and railroading is a tough business and I can see now why some railroaders are grumpy. You can't say that this business attracts such personality types because every job has these natually (for lack of a better word) "anal" people.

If you were to make a list of romantic jobs you'd begin to list dangererous ones. Firefighter. Test pilot. Railroader. That's what's so captivating about railroads. A little bit frightening, but at the same time captivating.

For someone can't understand what's so facinating about railroads, and why there are "buffs," just go look at any construction site to see how many guys stand around staring at those machines moving earth and erecting steel beams and stone blocks. Or go to an airshow sometime and see how many people came just to look at airplanes. Trains are just as mesmerizing. Big heavy machines moving tons of freight across thousands of miles.

A RaiFan's Perspective
by ironhorseman

Trains command a certain awe and respect. A diesel engine is not like asteam engine, but is a species in it's own right. A diesel engine has a deep, grumbling roar in its belly. It's unmistakable scent of diesel fuel breezes along the right of way as the engine glides down the road of steel, displaying its colorful coat of reds, silvers, oranges, yellows, greens, blues, and even the occasional intimadating black. It's call is even more deafening than its roar. Green and amber and red block signal lights reflect themselves off the rail miles into the distance in the twilight after at the end of a long, hot summer's day, standing vigil for that next train. Down by the lonely depot I wait for the parade of engines and containers that will pass shortly which came from far off lands in the east I've never been destined for places across a vast ocean I've never seen. The aroma of creosent oil, the brilliant display of freight, and the ear popping sound of speeding freight cars whizzing by is hypnotising and entertaining at the same time. This is free entertainment. It's exciting to see something moving through a town where not much moves at all. And to marvel that something that was once in China makes a regular pass through this small town.

Thank you railroaders for keeping the trains moving and shipping the products around the continent in order to make our lives more comfortable.

Your refrence to the smell of cresote triggered a lot of memories. I cant help it, but every time I get a whiff of it, my mind runs off to the old navy docks in San Deigo, and all the railroad tracks I have wandered along. Both lead to far away places, full of promises kept, and promises to come, dangerous and delightful at the same time. All of that just from the smell of cresote. Oh well, I am a pretty cheap date.[:D]

[ironhorseman]

From reading Trains Magazine I've gathered a little understanding of the attitudes of railroaders. I read those stories of experiences people have sent in and it generally seems the "bosses" sometimes have ego problems and also like to make the workers miserable which, in turn, the workers like to get back at them by telling them off or pulling a prank at least once in their career. A passenger train worker lets his supervisor oversleep then wakes him up as the train pulls out. He knows he'll be in trouble when the super. gets back, but it was worth. Another story is about a woman who worked in the yards and had a nice supervisor everyone liked until he retired and an ego-maniac took his place and everyone's life was miserable again. (It's late and I'm not gonna go dig the article out right now.)

There are many such stories and railroading is a tough business and I can see now why some railroaders are grumpy. You can't say that this business attracts such personality types because every job has these natually (for lack of a better word) "anal" people.

If you were to make a list of romantic jobs you'd begin to list dangererous ones. Firefighter. Test pilot. Railroader. That's what's so captivating about railroads. A little bit frightening, but at the same time captivating.

For someone can't understand what's so facinating about railroads, and why there are "buffs," just go look at any construction site to see how many guys stand around staring at those machines moving earth and erecting steel beams and stone blocks. Or go to an airshow sometime and see how many people came just to look at airplanes. Trains are just as mesmerizing. Big heavy machines moving tons of freight across thousands of miles.

A RaiFan's Perspective
by ironhorseman

Trains command a certain awe and respect. A diesel engine is not like asteam engine, but is a species in it's own right. A diesel engine has a deep, grumbling roar in its belly. It's unmistakable scent of diesel fuel breezes along the right of way as the engine glides down the road of steel, displaying its colorful coat of reds, silvers, oranges, yellows, greens, blues, and even the occasional intimadating black. It's call is even more deafening than its roar. Green and amber and red block signal lights reflect themselves off the rail miles into the distance in the twilight after at the end of a long, hot summer's day, standing vigil for that next train. Down by the lonely depot I wait for the parade of engines and containers that will pass shortly which came from far off lands in the east I've never been destined for places across a vast ocean I've never seen. The aroma of creosent oil, the brilliant display of freight, and the ear popping sound of speeding freight cars whizzing by is hypnotising and entertaining at the same time. This is free entertainment. It's exciting to see something moving through a town where not much moves at all. And to marvel that something that was once in China makes a regular pass through this small town.

Thank you railroaders for keeping the trains moving and shipping the products around the continent in order to make our lives more comfortable.

[sooblue]

I applied for a RR job building bridges for the BN back in the mid 70s
If I had gone in there and said "I hate the RRs, the last thing I want is to work for them.
You'll never catch me LOOKIN because I detest anything connected with the RRs"
I might have gotten that job. Nuts, now I'm too old.
Sooblue

[edblysard]

Man,
Lots of different responses.
And witchita, Skeets is trying to save your life.
I work in yard service, I switch and kick cars all day. A lot of my job requires me to ride the side of car. Catch the word side?
If your on the porch of any car, you have broken the plane of the car body, and are in the dead zone. We call it that on purpose. If anything goes wrong, and your in there, your dead. This stuff does not give you a second chance.
I shove 100+ cars around all day, without air in the brakes, if you dont know its coming, the slack can snap you off the train just as easy as you flick a skeeter off your arm.
And if I catch you in or on my train, I dont play, I call the cops. Not because I dont like fans, but because your putting yourself and my crew in danger. What happens when you catch your shoe lace in the cut lever while your climbing up the ladder, and unknowingly uncouple the cars ahead of you? Guess who is riding the point of 50 lose cars, and when I tell my engineer to ease up, guess what happens? I get to try to stop 50 loaded railcars with nothing but handbrakes. Even at 10mph, it isnt fun, or funny.
Think thats stupid, or made up? It isnt, it happened to me the first year was railroading. Scared me half to death, could have killed someone.
Now, if you want to take my picture, or shoot some of my train, I dont mind, just do it from public property.
As for the dislike and distain shown fans, well, let you in on a not to well kept secret. Most railroaders are fans, they just will not admit it. Not because they are embarassed, but because most management above trainmasters didnt come from the ranks, but were hired from outside the culture, and like someone mentioned, they feel a fan cant or wont take the job seriously.
Where I work, we have a yardmaster who not only is a fan, but a modeler, like myself, he forgot to mention this on his application. But now that we are here, and have shown the brass we do take our job seriously, they dont bug us.
Heck, they even allowed me to shoot photos of the windmill train for UP when we unloaded it off the ship, and onto the TTX flats.
Most of us dont mind fans, we just dont like the rabid ones, who do steal anything not bolted down, and some things that are. Had one try to steal the old SP sign off a steel girder bridge. He just didnt notice the bridge was less than 100 feet from our police dept offices. Dedicated, but dumb.
The do steal switches, the old harp stand style goes really quick.
And nothing chaps me more that a fan who steps out in the middle of my track, while I am shoving around to the yard, to snap a photo, never realizing he has his back to a oncoming train coming around the curve on the other track.
Which leaves me little choice, stop, and leave him a way out when he realizes the position hes in, or keep going, and hope he gets a little snap as to where he is, and how much danger he is in, and moves before its to late.
It not so much that we dont like fans, heck, most of the older fans here got cab rides when they were kids, but attitudes have changed, on both side of the track. Where once fans respected the trains, and the danger they represented, and were cautious, now days, they exhibit the same numb attitude people do in parking lots. They just walk out of the store, in front of moving traffic, and expect you to stop.
Most of the hardcore fans here wouldnt steal anything from the railroad, after all, its "their" railroad too. And if they did find something, such as a switch lantren, it became a artifact for their collection. Now days, the new fans dont mind prying off a builders plate, heck, the last time our cops caught some one stealing one of the last harpstands we had out here, he wasnt worried that his actions could cause a derailment, or kill someone. He was more upset that the welder he was stealing the stand for had already paid him for it, and now would want his money back. The welder? He was making mailbox stands out of them, and selling them as "real" railroad stuff.
Go to E-Bay, and type in railroad. Hope you got a lot of time to look, you can buy just about anything now, most of it stolen.
Railroad products are no longer collectiable artifacts, they have become a sellable commodity, with the seller going to just about any length to get his product.
With all that, is it any wonder that when we see someone on property that isnt one of us, we get suspicious?
Now, with all that said, do this.
Count the number of railroaders here on this site.
I have at least three engineers posting in the last six hours, and at least five conductors, not counting me, three of them from Canada, two of them women,in the same time.
At least four retired railroaders in the last 4 hours, three of them on this subject thread alone.
So if we really didnt like trains, or fans for that matter, what are we doing here?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Wichita
.Today,I satisfy my fix by riding in trailing units and on the porch of a grain hoppers.

AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH! Wichita, PLEASE, please. Don't ride hopper portches. I don't know who'd be letting you ride trailing units; on my road, I could be fired for allowing nonemployees on my engine...any one of my engines. On my road, we're not allowed to ride the end of ANY car except a ballast car with railinged porches. If an old brakesman could fall off, so could a hobbyist. Sudden, violent slack could send you sailing. Have you ever been stopped by the RR police and had your name taken? THAT might be why they didn't want to hire you.

[Anonymous]

I lived just up the road from the Asst Station master of a station I intend building shortly a few years ago. Out of the blue, I rang and asked to visit. He is now retired, and over 80 years old having spent his whole life in the railways (except fpr WW2).
I was rather disappointed that he was unable (or unwilling) to meet me, and in discussing this with other MR's, it is a common problem here in South Australia - old employees of tyhe SAR seem to be bitter and cynical.
DS

[Anonymous]

Let me start out by saying that I've been a loco engineer for 25yrs.Currently I'm in a long intra-divisional frt.pool for a western RR.While growing up I always dreamed of becoming a engineer and today I'm living the reality of that dream.I still enjoy my job most of the time but it has its drawbacks.Long hrs away from home,working 24/7 night and day,bad weather and good,dealing with the college educated idiots who have no RR experience and call the shots,unrealistic pay for what we are reponsible for and are required to know and do.A UPS delivery driver makes a higher hourly wage than a yard engineer!I am one of many who don't look down at rail fans.Just try to remember we, who work on the RR have to live with railroading while on and off the job.While at home waiting for that call for a train on the line-up that was due 12hrs ago and still hasn't been called.So when you have a bad experience with a railroader it might be because he or she has had a long hard day or night.We are human to and sometimes we have a hard time understanding why others see the galmore of railroading.I do apologize if I have offended any of you in the past and will do my best to remember that rail buffs are human too.

[Anonymous]

Well, you know what? I don't understand it either.
In my 25 years of railfanning, I've been met with both welcoming arms, and suspicion. One incident really stands out in my memory. Several years ago, my cousin and I were railfanning at Schoolcraft Michigan, at the depot, where the Grand Trunk crossed Conrail. We noticed a chunk of rail missing out of the "diamond", and I got on the dispatchers phone, that was un-locked, and told the dispatcher what I had seen. Well, the next train through stopped, and the crew was very thankful of our concern. We had most likely prevented a disaster. But, guess what, the next time we visited Schoolcraft, the phone box had a lock on it. Try to figure THAT one out.
Todd C.

[Anonymous]

I hear ya Desert dude.I'm glad NS considered me "unworthy" for employment.Today,I satisfy my fix by riding in trailing units and on the porch of a grain hoppers.

[Anonymous]

I am A conductor for the BNSF. First of all being A railfan and working for A class 1 railroad are two totaly different things. I myself was A 'foamer'. While I still enjoy watching different locomotives and the history of railroads it SUCKS to work for one! I think because the employees resent the company so much they look down on railfans because they think all we are doing is having fun and playing games. Trust me 12 hours day in and out and putting up with the political B.S. of the company will change your image of the 'hoby'! Don't get me wrong I enjoy railroading, I just wish we were all treated better.

[Anonymous]

The railroads know that railfans are out there, and they do care about them to an extent. Why else would the UP be painting giant American flags on the sides of their units if nobody was gonna take pictures of them? But I do agree that railroading is a business first, entertainment second. I would never ask an engineer to slow a train down, but I would ask someone getting ready to throw a switch if he can tell me if he knows how soon the train will be coming down, if he is just standing there. I would never intentionally tresspass on railroad property, but I will set up camp somehwere out of the way and watch, unless someone from the railroad asks me to please move.

I'm still new to the railfanning scene, but I've read of a couple of rail excursions where the engineer knew the railfan and acknowledged him on the radio (Like "How are you this morning" or "No need to hurry, we have a slow order"). So there are railroaders out there who respect the railfan, but I guess it's a 2-way-street. It's like baseball: as long as you don't run out onto the field during the game, then the players are more than happy to have you there.

[REDDYK]

All I can add to this discussion is to relate this incident. While watching trains at Fostoria recently, doing the railfan thing, when another car drove up. after a while one of the two guys came over to talk. He was a CSX conductor, his buddy was an engineer, it was their day off. I asked about the "foamer thing". He said a few employees are clearly anti-fan, but most are railfans to some degree. Then he smiled and said " I can't get enough, I guess".

[wabash1]

shunting the rails is something i wont tell couse there will be somebody trying it or doing it after reading about it. but i dont like buffs for the reason that they always have a camera. and picture tell on the crew. if we are moving down the road and say smoking you take our pic. well thats a rule violation no smoking on the engines. also some of the new hire officials that are fresh out of collage to managment school dont have the sloghtest idea of what your doing and proceed to bust a crew for a minor infraction of rules. the thing is they are smart enough to dress like a buff. cant tell them apart except maybe no camera. otherwise i have no problem with buffs.

[Anonymous]

What is ment by "shunting the Rails".

[Anonymous]

being a rail buff dose not disqailify you from working for csx... anyone that passes the conductor schools entrance exams..passes the class..and passes the physical can work for csx... oh yea..back grownd checks too... but as for being a rail fan...nope..about 30% of the people that hired out when i did..are rail buffs...

[Soo2610]

I also tried signing on and made it to the final cut twice. I was well aware that the job was no picnic and still wanted to go for it. At least let me decide that I don't like it instead of arbitrarily cutting my legs off because I happen to like trains. I would think someone would have a better chance of succeeding if they start off thinking they would like the job rather than starting off hating it. I currently work retail and let me tell you, the pay and the hours both suck. "We are open longer hours to better serve you" is nothing but double speak for retail greed.Dealing with the general public today is becoming a big pain because everyone is out for themselves and the louder you yell and scream the more you get for nothing. No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions. It is always somebody elses fault.

[Anonymous]

'Shunting' the rails is not only highly illegal here it's also bloody stupid. The trains that I see in the daylight here through my town hardly stop anymore and there are less of them, sure I bemoan the fact that they race through at about 45mph but I would never do anything to compromise the safe running of the trains.
Adrian New Zealand

[BRAKIE]

LOL,Retired? Not likely! LOL. My job went out the door when the Caboose did! As far as the cost of living,it was the same then like it is now.Prices back then was just as high as today in the ratio of pay.Nothing has changed,wages goes up,prices go up.The working stiff works for a living and sometimes breaks even or gets a little ahead always did always will..
Buddy,listen,I don't know anything about how the Crown ran the CN,so I will take your word for it..If you think we didn't have jerks that told us how to do our job,even though they didn't know a air hose from a king pin,you're sadly mistaken.I found this out back in the 60s when I worked on the PRR.It got wrost when it became the PC.Any time you have a complete fool with a college degree that thinks he knows more then the workers(this applies to any type of job)you got problems.I recall a class 1 fool that had the nerve to tell the conductor how to switch cars.The conductor looked at him and said"Sonny,There can only be one conductor on this here train,and that happens to be me,so, let me do my work and you watch or you can do the work and I will watch".At this the jerk left and went whining to the Divison superindent. Nothing was ever said to the conductor,who had 33 years on the PRR.
As far as quiting,that is easy to do if one really wants to.Sure you give up alot,but,if one is no longer happy with the work,why stay? With all due respect it sounds like your no longer happy with your job.Or is it because you didn't like the change? Nobody likes changes in management that I ever head of,I don't know of any PRR employee that was in love the the PRR/NYC merger,same with the Chessie Seaboard/family lines merger,and the doing away of the caboose or even those one eyed job stealers,the EOTD.At lease you got to keep your job with the change.That is one thing you can be thankful for.Right? Nobody likes to be told how to do their work after many years on the job.One of these days management will find that out.Who knows more about doing the job more then the man that does it daily?

[Anonymous]

One thing I notice about some railfans is that they seem to view railroading as a form of entertainment rather than a business. If you go to a ball game,a concert,or an auto race you have every right to expect to be entertained as that's the business of the sports and music industry. But a freight railroad is in business to make money for it's shareholders by moving commodities.If some fans get in the way of this,it's understandable that the railroad companies crack down.

[Anonymous]

Larry, maybe where you work wasn't any better than it is today but CN sure was. Since we went from a crown corpoation to a private company the job has changed a great deal. We have trainmasters who never worked a day on the ground barking out orders, telling guys with 25 years service they don't do their job right.

You make it sound so easy to just give up a job you once liked and the senority which you have earned and start anew, it ain't easy pal. Maybe from where you're sitting,retired! The money, which you say is so much better than when you were working in '85. I've got news for you your salary bought a whole lot more in '85 than ours does now.

[Anonymous]

Hello UNFRGVN338...The R.R. that I work at has more than it's share of 'fans'. Many of the employees profess not to be, but all of us are in some fashion. People who deny this are in denial to some extent. I love to get my hands on R.R. memorabilia that I know will be worth something down the road. It's fun to acknowledge something that is Americana. I would say we're all fans to a degree, and for R.R. employees to desparage them is rediculous. The only time when outrage is justified is when fans 'shunt' the rails or some such carry-on, so as to stop, or slow down a train to get a picture! This ruins it for the rest of the enthusiasts...Hommie

[Anonymous]

I guess I am not a buff. I am not willing to steal railroad property. I did pick up a very rusty spike on the sidewalk under a bridge once. The most serious tresspassing I have done is to cross unprotected tracks while hiking or surveying or to stand within 40 feet of the tracks to take a photograph for a bridge site I was to design. I would never impose on a railroader to find out what he thought about the 'this or that' but I have asked a flagman protecting a worksite how many trains usually pass this place on a usual day.

Even though I work in an office, we have our own 'goofs' who detract from getting work done by tinkering with the fancy computer hardware. I imagine this is similar to what railroaders think 'buffs' would do if given a job. In the end, it should be handled on a case by case basis.

MHO - Ed