It's been said that the gap between the top and the bottom wages has been increasing (insanely) for years.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Electroliner 1935 Some companies would not treat an animal as they treat their employees.
Some companies would not treat an animal as they treat their employees.
Yet some people choose to work there because???
tree68 It's been said that the gap between the top and the bottom wages has been increasing (insanely) for years.
Just the same, the lot of those who find themselves at "the bottom" is generally better than it was a hundred years ago. Compare the life of a railroader (they're not at the bottom but just by way of example) of 1922 to one of today and I doubt that anyone would say that things were better in 1922. Of course, the rate of improvement is not linear.. maybe things were better 15 years ago or 30 years ago... but over longer spans things have always improved. What we're experiencing now is serious, and the logjam it will cause in the supply chain will be remembered for years, but this too shall pass, and by 2122 it will be no more than a footnote... remembered by historians only.
EuclidHow much gap should there be between the top and bottom wages?
Since you are asking the question - poist YOUR answer, since you will disagree with anyone else's.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Euclid How much gap should there be between the top and bottom wages?
Only Mr Market knows the answer to that. And Mr. Market simply reflects our values as a whole..
BaltACD Euclid How much gap should there be between the top and bottom wages? Since you are asking the question - poist YOUR answer, since you will disagree with anyone else's.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Euclid I have never suggested or believed that there is any control that determines how large or small the gap between highest and lowest wage should be. But many people here and elsewhere complain that this gap is too large. So since they know this, they ought to be able to explain how large is too large. Of course everyone has the freedom to start their own company and make all pay equal from top to bottom. Actually I don’t expect people to answer these questions. The answer is in their refusal to answer. It works like a charm.
The control is supply and demand. You and I might not believe that an entry level NHL hockey player should make more than an experienced cancer researcher.. but the market says otherwise. Diddo for the spread between what the CEO gets and what the worker bees get.. the market is the mechanism that controls the spread.
EuclidI have never suggested or believed that there is any control that determines how large or small the gap between highest and lowest wage should be. But many people here and elsewhere complain that this gap is too large. So since they know this, they ought to be able to explain how large is too large. Of course everyone has the freedom to start their own company and make all pay equal from top to bottom. Actually I don’t expect people to answer these questions. The answer is in their refusal to answer. It works like a charm.
Turds smell. Works like a charm.
Ulrich Electroliner 1935 Some companies would not treat an animal as they treat their employees. Yet some people choose to work there because???
$$$. If you're living paycheck to paycheck you might be willing to put up with a lot more crap at work.
And in the case of the railroads it might be the best paying job they can get in that area.
In the U.S. there is also the little issue of health insurance.
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Health insurance, RR retirement, and many business owners in a lot of areas still think it's 1950 and $11 an hour is a lot of money.
And I know this is weird, but many RRers actually like RRing.
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Ulrich Euclid I have never suggested or believed that there is any control that determines how large or small the gap between highest and lowest wage should be. But many people here and elsewhere complain that this gap is too large. So since they know this, they ought to be able to explain how large is too large. Of course everyone has the freedom to start their own company and make all pay equal from top to bottom. Actually I don’t expect people to answer these questions. The answer is in their refusal to answer. It works like a charm. The control is supply and demand. You and I might not believe that an entry level NHL hockey player should make more than an experienced cancer researcher.. but the market says otherwise. Diddo for the spread between what the CEO gets and what the worker bees get.. the market is the mechanism that controls the spread.
zugmann Health insurance, RR retirement, and many business owners in a lot of areas still think it's 1950 and $11 an hour is a lot of money. And I know this is weird, but many RRers actually like RRing.
Hey, not that weird.. I like my job too although it has its drawbacks.. customers who don't pay.. accidents.. stolen loads.. freight claims.. but.. I guess overall it still pays the bills and beats gargling broken glass.
EuclidSo then why do some people cite a difference between the top and bottom wage as being unfair?
Who cited that?
zugmann Euclid So then why do some people cite a difference between the top and bottom wage as being unfair? Who cited that?
Euclid So then why do some people cite a difference between the top and bottom wage as being unfair?
I'll not cite anything - the $7.75 'minimum wage' at 8 hours per day and 260 days per year works out to $16,120. The photo I posted earlier showed Foote's total compensation to be north of $20 Million; with the UP and NS CEO's going for $14 Million. I won't argue the difference between CEO's and minimum wage but I will question how Foote is $6 million 'better' than the UP and NS CEO's?
Maybe CSX just believes Foote is worth that much more than the UP and NS CEOs.
Today's News Wire:
CEO outlines ongoing crew shortages, need for changes in jobs
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/csxs-foote-blaming-psr-for-rail-problems-is-nonsense/
Mr. Foote's statements, within this article, actually explains that PSR via CSX's upper management IS key to the rail problem. He states that presumably under his watch, [his] CSX management cut about 1,000 jobs. After being able to recall ~800 and have hired another ~2,000. "… and we’re going backwards,” Foote said." So if PSR implementation, layoffs & work rule changes, isn't the problem why hasn't CSX management responded by offering positions that will attract and keep capable people? Management should know their employees and customers. IF they are failing to address either then Management is failing. IF they are failing on both fronts they HAVE failed!
EuclidMaybe CSX just believes Foote is worth that much more than the UP and NS CEOs.
Which really means all three boards are idiots.
The figures posted are their whole compensation package. Their actual wages are probably a lot less. (A few UP CEOs back was the last time I checked, but the actual wage was 2 or 3 million dollars. The add-ons and bonuses was worth about two or three times their listed wage. A lot of those extras are to give them, so it's said, "skin" in the game. Also those extras are non taxable or taxed at a lessor rate than wages are.
It could simply be that the way the packages are done is why CSX comes out better.
Jeff
Euclid Ulrich Euclid I have never suggested or believed that there is any control that determines how large or small the gap between highest and lowest wage should be. But many people here and elsewhere complain that this gap is too large. So since they know this, they ought to be able to explain how large is too large. Of course everyone has the freedom to start their own company and make all pay equal from top to bottom. Actually I don’t expect people to answer these questions. The answer is in their refusal to answer. It works like a charm. The control is supply and demand. You and I might not believe that an entry level NHL hockey player should make more than an experienced cancer researcher.. but the market says otherwise. Diddo for the spread between what the CEO gets and what the worker bees get.. the market is the mechanism that controls the spread. So then why do some people cite a difference between the top and bottom wage as being unfair? They always refuse to answer that question.
1. Perhaps you need to consider that the so-called market* is the best or fair or only way to rationalize and distribute everything? What's good for corn, wheat and soybeans isn't necessarily ideal for humans.
2. Balt calculated the yearly gross earnings of a minimum wage worker. But let us look at a $15.00/hour worker. He or she grosses ~$30k. Is a CEO making 100 or 600 or even 800 times that actually worth that? How?
* Let's not even bring in sophisticated market concepts like elasticity
zugmannWho cited that?
I mentioned it.
The key thing with that is not the level of compensation as such. I've seen it mentioned in the past in various places that the concern is the widening gap between the average worker and the top executives.
One might think that wage increases between top and bottom would be relatively linear - ie, my pay goes up 5%, the CEO's pay goes up 5%. I'm left with the impression that some folks feel that such hasn't been the case.
Others might feel that it should be on a decreasing scale - I get 5%, the CEO gets 2%.
When I was in USAF, there was a huge readjustment in pay (late 1960's). A basic airman (E1) went from about $109 per month to around $235 a month - better than a 100% increase. In fact, an E1's monthly pay was now more than an E4 would have been making, had their pay not also been increased. When you got to O10 (general), the increase was well less than 100%.
A variable with the CEO's pay, however, has been mergers and consolidations, which obviously increase the CEO's responsibilities.
It would take a lot of research and interpretation to sort it out.
Food for discussion.
charlie hebdoIs a CEO making 100 or 600 or even 800 times that actually worth that? How?
Because a CEO sometimes make decisions that can have 100 or 600 or even 800 times greater impact on performance or future of the entire company?
adkrr64 charlie hebdo Is a CEO making 100 or 600 or even 800 times that actually worth that? How? Because a CEO sometimes make decisions that can have 100 or 600 or even 800 times greater impact on performance or future of the entire company?
charlie hebdo Is a CEO making 100 or 600 or even 800 times that actually worth that? How?
And generally the ones that make BAD decisions, jump ship with a Golden Parachute worth several years of their inflated salary & options from the time before they put the company in distress and had a financially fatal effect on all the employees of the company.
Someone being rewarded for failure doesn't leave a good taste for the employees that are disadvantaged.
Evidence? And as Balt points out, where are the severely negative consequences for terrible decisions? Seldom on CEOs, often seen in paycuts or RIFs for a company's workforce.
charlie hebdo Euclid Ulrich Euclid I have never suggested or believed that there is any control that determines how large or small the gap between highest and lowest wage should be. But many people here and elsewhere complain that this gap is too large. So since they know this, they ought to be able to explain how large is too large. Of course everyone has the freedom to start their own company and make all pay equal from top to bottom. Actually I don’t expect people to answer these questions. The answer is in their refusal to answer. It works like a charm. The control is supply and demand. You and I might not believe that an entry level NHL hockey player should make more than an experienced cancer researcher.. but the market says otherwise. Diddo for the spread between what the CEO gets and what the worker bees get.. the market is the mechanism that controls the spread. So then why do some people cite a difference between the top and bottom wage as being unfair? They always refuse to answer that question. 1. Perhaps you need to consider that the so-called market* is the best or fair or only way to rationalize and distribute everything? What's good for corn, wheat and soybeans isn't necessarily ideal for humans. 2. Balt calculated the yearly gross earnings of a minimum wage worker. But let us look at a $15.00/hour worker. He or she grosses ~$30k. Is a CEO making 100 or 600 or even 800 times that actually worth that? How? * Let's not even bring in sophisticated market concepts like elasticity
As much as is possible, everyone's pay should be tied to performance, with performance criteria clearly spelled out for each position. Certainly no management bonuses should be paid where the Company has performed under par or has downsized its workforce to trim costs. No golden parachutes for anyone..
Euclid: Your entire thesis is circular and reveals some degree of naivete or ignorance on your part concerning the corporate world. Did you ever work in management in a large business?
And The "Company" is the Board of Directors who decide the CEO raise (or bonus, or …). The subsequent impact on the people making up the Company will take the hit on bad decisions and only get a trickle, if any, should there be a good one.
UlrichAs much as is possible, everyone's pay should be tied to performance, with performance criteria clearly spelled out for each position. Certainly no management bonuses should be paid where the Company has performed under par or has downsized its workforce to trim costs. No golden parachutes for anyone..
When I was non-contract (official) with Chessie System and following through with CSX - there were no levels of remuneration that were established for individual positions throughout the system. All increases came about through the Performance Review type process. The head of whatever organization would undertake a performance review of all his subordinates - ostensibly a 'fair' evaluation against defined metrics. One thing that I observed through this process was that if, say, the head of a department was 'down graded' by his superior - all those under that supervisior would be downgraded without regard to any individual performance.
When I was initially 'promoted' to non-contract status, I was told I was getting a 15% increase over what I was making in my contract position with by new non-contract rate being $700 a month. When I got my W-2 for the year I was promoted it read about $8800. Obviously what I had been earning during my period as a contract employee exceeded what I was being paid in my non-contract position.
Employee compensation, outside of Union Contracts, is a real den of inequity.
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