kenny dorham You think 65k, for 2k hours per year, for a construction job is a "Bonanza".? That is what a person needs, to make a living, at any job. That is what i made, the last year i worked, in 2006. It is not a lot of money.
You think 65k, for 2k hours per year, for a construction job is a "Bonanza".? That is what a person needs, to make a living, at any job.
That is what i made, the last year i worked, in 2006. It is not a lot of money.
I'm not sure who called 65K a "bonanza".. (not me) but if the job remains unfilled then I would agree that 65K likley isn't enough. That's often the issue when there are no takers..Mind you they're drawing from a fairly small labor pool.. Fergus is small.. and the number of locals who can do heavy manual labor is further limited. That same job offered in metro Toronto (a far more expensive market) would likely be filled quickly at 65K due to the large pool of hard scrabble immigrants available.
Ulrich most of the more experienced drivers leave the mega boy's as fast as humanly possible. They tend to find smaller carriers were drivers are treated like well human beings to start. I'm still in shock when we get a new driver in and he meets the owner of the company and on his contact list he is given is 2 different numbers one is the boss man's direct office line the other is his cellphone. They're also given their dispatchers company issued cellphone number for emergency needs. Just last week I had to play flight coordinator for a driver. His wife was involved in an accident at her job and put in the hospital. We flew him home to be with his family instead of being on the road and sent a replacement driver out to get his truck back to the yard. This man was one of our owner operators and we would have done the same thing for a company driver. We just hired a ex Swift driver that was fired while on hometime why Swift lost his dedicated contract and decided he didn't need to drive for them anymore. Then they tried to say he abandoned his truck at an unapproved location. His truck was parked at the old dedicated starting point. You gotta love the mega carriers.
Convicted One charlie hebdo Keep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but.... Yeah, I did that, ...the disparity wasn't quite enough for a good joke, but I thought about it. The "golden handcuffs" observation made by Zug was, imo, pretty relevant. 20 years ago I was in a $61K/yr position that involved a high degree of specialty. And when that ended I was aghast at what prospective employers were willing to pay. Seemed like everyone wanted to hire "young and dumb". Of course there were jobs available that were so physically demanding that it was little mystery why they were ALWAYS hiring. But at 42 years old I wasn't interested in shortening my life 10 years, just for a paycheck.
charlie hebdo Keep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but....
Yeah, I did that, ...the disparity wasn't quite enough for a good joke, but I thought about it.
The "golden handcuffs" observation made by Zug was, imo, pretty relevant. 20 years ago I was in a $61K/yr position that involved a high degree of specialty. And when that ended I was aghast at what prospective employers were willing to pay. Seemed like everyone wanted to hire "young and dumb".
Of course there were jobs available that were so physically demanding that it was little mystery why they were ALWAYS hiring. But at 42 years old I wasn't interested in shortening my life 10 years, just for a paycheck.
If you work in Canada your expenses are in Canadian dollars also..
Contrary to the conventional wisdom, many of us smaller businesses prefer older workers.. they tend to not get pregnant, and for the most part they already have realistic expectations.. pay off the mortgage, help the kids with college etc.. Of course, if your business is moving furniture you want squat muscular 20 to 30 year old men.. but for office work or light labor the 50 to 65 year old crowd is great.
See also: RR retirement "current connection" stuff. (Esp for those with spouses)
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
charlie hebdoKeep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but....
Convicted One Ulrich It's a job seekers' market right now. it has been somewhat humorous seeing employer frustration in getting workers to return to low paying jobs. But $65K for general labor sounds like a bonanza. Enviro-hazard premium?
Ulrich It's a job seekers' market right now.
it has been somewhat humorous seeing employer frustration in getting workers to return to low paying jobs. But $65K for general labor sounds like a bonanza. Enviro-hazard premium?
Keep in mind that $65,000 Canadian is $51815 US. Still not bad, but....
Flintlock76 zugmann golden handcuffs I can understand what Zug's talking about because in a way it happened to me. Too many years on the job and too much invested to just walk away. When I started doing copier repair it was a fun job with fun people. It was the first job I had in a long, long time where when the alarm clock went off in the morning I didn't greet the day with an obscenity. But, the last ten years the petty annoyances and the corporate BS began and the irritation level started going up and up. I had too much time in to just walk away and so did many of my collegues, it was "grin and bear it" until retirement time. Then I walked away and didn't look back.
zugmann golden handcuffs
I can understand what Zug's talking about because in a way it happened to me. Too many years on the job and too much invested to just walk away.
When I started doing copier repair it was a fun job with fun people. It was the first job I had in a long, long time where when the alarm clock went off in the morning I didn't greet the day with an obscenity.
But, the last ten years the petty annoyances and the corporate BS began and the irritation level started going up and up. I had too much time in to just walk away and so did many of my collegues, it was "grin and bear it" until retirement time. Then I walked away and didn't look back.
I get that too.. it's hard to up and quit and start all over again elsewhere.
zugmann Ulrich Most don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing. I mean, if there were more smaller RRs that paid nearly what the class-1s did, I don't think people would stick around class 1s. But golden handcuffs, and there isn't much call for RRer skill outside of RRs.
Ulrich Most don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing.
I mean, if there were more smaller RRs that paid nearly what the class-1s did, I don't think people would stick around class 1s. But golden handcuffs, and there isn't much call for RRer skill outside of RRs.
In a more general sense your skills i.e. mechanical apptitude, problem solving ability etc are very transferrable. Most employers want people who a) show up for work,and b) can think on their feet to some extent. Anyone who can do those two things will always find work.. and good paying work most of the time.
Convicted One Well, I don't want to get too far off on a tangent, but frequently those "too good to be true" opportunities people flaunt when building their argument against the unemployed...you end up finding it's like for carrying 200 lb bundles through waist deep mud with some idiot screaming at you all day long to speed up. Meaning the job is "available" for good reason.
Well, I don't want to get too far off on a tangent, but frequently those "too good to be true" opportunities people flaunt when building their argument against the unemployed...you end up finding it's like for carrying 200 lb bundles through waist deep mud with some idiot screaming at you all day long to speed up. Meaning the job is "available" for good reason.
Yup.. for 65K it is likely hard work in tough conditions..
Convicted One Construction labourer.. Fergus, ON.. small town construction.. no takers yet i'm told. Ulrich It's a job seekers' market right now. it has been somewhat humorous seeing employer frustration in getting workers to return to low paying jobs. But $65K for general labor sounds like a bonanza. Enviro-hazard premium?
Construction labourer.. Fergus, ON.. small town construction.. no takers yet i'm told.
UlrichMost don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing.
zugmann Ulrich Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit.. Do any drivers stay once they get a couple years of experience in?
Ulrich Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit..
Do any drivers stay once they get a couple years of experience in?
Most don't because other opportunities beckon.. not a bad thing.
UlrichYet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit..
UlrichIt's a job seekers' market right now.
Convicted One Ulrich Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit.. Perhaps they should incorporate that into their hiring spiel? "Beats Starvation"...lol!
Perhaps they should incorporate that into their hiring spiel? "Beats Starvation"...lol!
Lots of options besides starvation. find something else or start a business..that's what I did when I had enough of working for the man. Nobody needs to starve. In this market there are lots of options.. almost everyone around here is hiring.. $65000/year for general laborers.. no experience required etc.. saw that this morning. It's a job seekers' market right now.. and if you've got skills you're absolutely golden.. No need to put up with lousy management or poor working conditions.. not now.
Yet they and their road warrior competitiors, Swift etc.. employ tens of thousands of people.. bad but not bad enough to quit..
Shadow the Cats owner Part of the problem with trying to get anyone from England or Swift to fill out this survey is this. They like people who have been there at least 1 years. The standing joke I always hear in the office is at the England means Every New Driver Leaves After Ninety Days. Swift has so many acronyms for their name including many unsafe for work it's not funny. There's a reason why certain carriers are called bottom feeders and they have earned it. Swift and England for their behavior towards driver's are in that bunch.
Part of the problem with trying to get anyone from England or Swift to fill out this survey is this. They like people who have been there at least 1 years. The standing joke I always hear in the office is at the England means Every New Driver Leaves After Ninety Days. Swift has so many acronyms for their name including many unsafe for work it's not funny.
There's a reason why certain carriers are called bottom feeders and they have earned it. Swift and England for their behavior towards driver's are in that bunch.
Don't forget Stevens Transport..
tree68 kgbw49 It is so disappointing to hear the stories of corporate culture that looks down on the people doing the actual work. Not that I am a pollyanna and expecting everything is all yippy-skippy and kumbaya all the time. But it sounds like the actual situation is much more guns than roses in terms of respecting the operating staff, and that is disturbing and disappointing. I've read in other venues and subject areas that the gap between upper level management and the worker bees is growing. I would opine that is reflected in the knowledge (or rather lack of) upper level management has of "boots on the ground" operations.
kgbw49 It is so disappointing to hear the stories of corporate culture that looks down on the people doing the actual work. Not that I am a pollyanna and expecting everything is all yippy-skippy and kumbaya all the time. But it sounds like the actual situation is much more guns than roses in terms of respecting the operating staff, and that is disturbing and disappointing.
I've read in other venues and subject areas that the gap between upper level management and the worker bees is growing. I would opine that is reflected in the knowledge (or rather lack of) upper level management has of "boots on the ground" operations.
I imagine it correlates well with the Gini Index.
kgbw49Sounds like UP left the words "Looking Out For Number" off the "One" locomotive. It is so disappointing to hear the stories of corporate culture that looks down on the people doing the actual work. Not that I am a pollyanna and expecting everything is all yippy-skippy and kumbaya all the time. But it sounds like the actual situation is much more guns than roses in terms of respecting the operating staff, and that is disturbing and disappointing.
It is so disappointing to hear the stories of corporate culture that looks down on the people doing the actual work. Not that I am a pollyanna and expecting everything is all yippy-skippy and kumbaya all the time.
But it sounds like the actual situation is much more guns than roses in terms of respecting the operating staff, and that is disturbing and disappointing.
Considering the 'aura' of the past 5 years in the USA - you would expect anything different?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
kgbw49It is so disappointing to hear the stories of corporate culture that looks down on the people doing the actual work. Not that I am a pollyanna and expecting everything is all yippy-skippy and kumbaya all the time. But it sounds like the actual situation is much more guns than roses in terms of respecting the operating staff, and that is disturbing and disappointing.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Sounds like UP left the words "Looking Out For Number" off the "One" locomotive.
jeffhergert... A little story. About a year or two back a dispatcher, who had been a conductor on my district, was in the cafeteria of the HQ building. Some people who worked in the building, probably staff in the various non-operating business functions of the company, were talking about "train trash." He excused himself and asked them what they were talking about. "Train trash" meant the people, trainmen and engineers, who work the trains and yards. He reminded them that the "train trash" were the people that did the work that brought in the money for the company. Now those people weren't the big bosses or the decision makers in the company. Many have probably been purged in some of the PSR cost cutting moves. Still, I doubt they came up with the term on their own. I would guess they heard it from their bosses, who heard it from their bosses and so on. So why would morale be so low at some of the class ones? Jeff - Train Trash PS. Of course this dispatcher told his friends back home. Someone even made up T-shirts, but I don't have one.
A little story. About a year or two back a dispatcher, who had been a conductor on my district, was in the cafeteria of the HQ building. Some people who worked in the building, probably staff in the various non-operating business functions of the company, were talking about "train trash." He excused himself and asked them what they were talking about. "Train trash" meant the people, trainmen and engineers, who work the trains and yards. He reminded them that the "train trash" were the people that did the work that brought in the money for the company.
Now those people weren't the big bosses or the decision makers in the company. Many have probably been purged in some of the PSR cost cutting moves. Still, I doubt they came up with the term on their own. I would guess they heard it from their bosses, who heard it from their bosses and so on.
So why would morale be so low at some of the class ones?
Jeff - Train Trash
PS. Of course this dispatcher told his friends back home. Someone even made up T-shirts, but I don't have one.
The headquarters office types would have no difference in their job functions if they were working for a insurance company or a bank as it applies to their duties and work functions in working for a railroad. Paper shufflers (of course in today's office world they bit and byte shufflers).
charlie hebdo Is anyone surprised? Did BNSF, CN and CP participate? Hospitals and various emergency services are also 24/7 operations. (There were some healthcare corporations listed but sound like nursing homes and homecare.) Although in size, most are too small for survey, I wonder about their dissatisfaction levels. One constant thread is complaints about management. Someone wondered about people getting soft. Military folks grouse all the time, always have since Roman legions.
Is anyone surprised? Did BNSF, CN and CP participate?
Hospitals and various emergency services are also 24/7 operations. (There were some healthcare corporations listed but sound like nursing homes and homecare.) Although in size, most are too small for survey, I wonder about their dissatisfaction levels. One constant thread is complaints about management.
Someone wondered about people getting soft. Military folks grouse all the time, always have since Roman legions.
I believe the survey is independent of the corporations listed. If it was you could be sure the "winners" in the survey would not consent to it being published.
This is not new news, as someone pointed out. Nor is it the only survey out there because I've seen UP at only #3 in one. I do believe that this (12/20 date) is not the first year where some of the class ones have ranked so high.
It's not necessarily the crazy hours themselves. They make it clear during the hiring sessions. What's bad, and it mostly affects the conductors working pool and extra board assignments is that the boards are so thin. It started with the company keeping the boards thin because they are guaranteed boards. Now it's because they don't have any reserve left to augment the boards when they need to. This leads to the conductors working more, especially the pool (the pool is an unassigned, first-in/first out board that works through freight assignments) conductors.
The pool in the past was staffed so that they would get about 30 hours, give or take, off between runs at the home terminal. (Freight engineer's pool was about the same.) The extra board usually (as it's supposed to) would turn faster but still not necessarily always right on your rest. If you wanted more time off, you worked the pool. If you wanted to make money, you worked the extra board.
Now, the conductors are usually turning on their rest. Both Pool and extra board. With the requirement for 48/72 hours off if you've exceed 6/7 consecutive starts, it just makes the boards turn that much faster. No available extra boards means that any pool vacancies, like off sick, paid or unpaid personal leave, vacation, etc. don't get filled. That just moves up the next marked up conductor. I once had to wait 12 hours to go to work because there were no available, pool or extra board, conductors available. During that time a couple that were due to become rested (available) marked off. Because they had been working so much.
Now some are leaving the railroad partly because of the having no real time off. (They are guys who have 12 to 14 years in. Some are looking for other non class one opprotunites to stay in Railroad Retirement.) Couple that to the way management, local and higher up, look at and treat their work force. (One possibly positive. They have amended their attendence policy somewhat. It doesn't appear to as draconian as before, but we shall see.)
Working night shifts or long shifts isn't the issue, there are plenty of other 24/7 industries where you work 12 hours at a time, to say nothing of the fly in/fly out camp jobs that are common in remote areas like northern Canada.
The problems are working on call, the work/life balance (or lack thereof), the amount of time spent on layovers at away from home locations, and above all else the lack of respect, intimidation and bullying from management that has been present in one form or another for my entire working career, and I am given to understand that this goes back over 20 years at a minimum.
We could probably put up with any one or two of those things, but all of them at once is just too much. And it's getting worse again, not better.
It remains to be seen how smart the railroader unions are compared to those in other industries, but one must remember that we are up against a very powerful and well funded opponent in the form of Class I management. An opponent which takes every opportunity to game the system and has no respect for laws, regulations or contracts they have signed.
And all too often the government takes the company's side when push comes to shove. A union can only do so much in the face of this sort of opposition.
CN has been conducting internal employee surveys for about a year now, I think it's part of some new safety program with a fancy name that they spent a bunch of money on. They've tried to shine up the results and trumpet them in the internal company newsletter, but the real feedback isn't pretty.
They say the surveys resulted in a couple changes we wanted and some cuts reversed (like being allowed paper train lists again), but in reality all they did was make us fight to get something we already had, and they want us to think that's a win.
I haven't filled out a survey yet because you have to put your name to it and I don't trust them, but if I ever do I'm going to give them a piece of my mind about how they need to settle the giant pile of grievances and back off on discipline and harassment BEFORE they can even expect to begin a real respectful dialogue with the workforce.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
BaltACD SD60MAC9500 Not a good look for the Class 1's ... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/17-worst-companies-america-170000191.html Between all the other negatives The most highlighted one was the realtity that railroads operate 24/7/365 and to do that many employees have to work other than 8-5 Monday to Friday.
SD60MAC9500 Not a good look for the Class 1's ... https://finance.yahoo.com/news/17-worst-companies-america-170000191.html
Not a good look for the Class 1's ...
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/17-worst-companies-america-170000191.html
Between all the other negatives
The most highlighted one was the realtity that railroads operate 24/7/365 and to do that many employees have to work other than 8-5 Monday to Friday.
I imagine it doesn't help if one get's furloughed as soon as they get hired on the extra board... The only industry when you get hired just to sit around wondering if you'll get called back.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.