BOXCARS

[shrek]

IIRC that was West Central co-op, I dont think they did the soy export stuff for too long

[cv_acr]

jeffhergert

There used to be a company in Jefferson IA that loaded a 5 unit spine car.  They had their own container lift vehicle.  They would off load the empty containers, load them and then reload them on the spine car.  IIRC, the load was soy products for export.

The local would spot and deliver the spine car.  At the local's home terminal the car would be sent west on the manifest that picked up and set out there.  It's been many years since this operation stopped.  I think the company closed down.

Jeff

Likely key word there being "export". Load in containers at the source so they can be directly intermodal'ed overseas, rather than being trans-loaded from hoppers to containers at another facility.

For domestic rail shipping car-load traffic loads much more bulk commodity.

[SD70Dude]

cv_acr

Likely key word there being "export". Load in containers at the source so they can be directly intermodal'ed overseas, rather than being trans-loaded from hoppers to containers at another facility.

Lots of grain shippers do that here, but the containers are always trucked to and from the nearest intermodal terminals.  

There is a customer up in Fort McMurray that ships 20' containers on 89' flatcars that move in regular carload freight service, not on intermodal trains.  I'm not sure exactly what they ship, the waybills aren't very clear, but I've always presumed it is some sort of specialty chemicals.

[SD60MAC9500]

greyhounds

 

 

SD60MAC9500

Maybe it's time RR's looked into shifting most building materials into the IM network. Add Flatracks into the mix as they can be double stacked, are relatively cheap to build, don't carry the burden of boxcar investment, and can haul a multitude of items from lumber to steel products. Anything over size can use a flatcar.  

 

 

I'll more than agree with that.  (except for the double stack)  Going IM would reduce the investment risks since the equipment could be more readily repurposed if the lumber traffic went away.  Reducing those risks will reduce the costs of acquiring new equipment.  (Again, it doesn’t matter if a railroad or a 3^rd party acquires the equipment.  The risk costs are there and must be accounted for.)

Here’s my favorite, the curtain side.  I’d use containers instead of trailers.

curtain side flatbed - Bing images

A sawmill (or paper mill) is a concentrated point of freight origin.  So, an on-site intermodal terminal is a consideration.  Bring in empty curtain side containers on spine cars.  The shipper can load the containers while they are on the spine cars.  No need for container lift on/lift off.  The curtain side containers will provide protection for the commodity against the elements.

Pick the car up with the local, as would be done with a boxcar.  Move it to an existing IM terminal and get it on a fast train toward destination.  The loads can then be distributed by truck to various consignees.  This allows them to receive in smaller quantities and reduces their inventory carrying cost. 

Unlike a center beam the containers can be loaded in both directions.  UPS, FedEx, LTL, most anything, can go in those containers. (Boxcars are also quite limited in their reload potential.)

I actually got something such as this tried.  I even got a container leasing company to lend us a flat rack free of charge for a trial. I should have been on the ground for the trial.  But I had to go on my two week’s duty with the Illinois National Guard.  So, it’s just a memory.

Now, some of you feel free to tell me why this can’t possibly work.

 

I like your idea. I'm also a fan of tarpsides. Their versatility is awesome they can haul anything from bulk to agriculture. When I had my 3PL I was looking at purchasing a group of tarpsides. I may still do it..

[greyhounds]

SD70Dude

PSR doesn't want new business if it you have to work for it or if it doesn't fit the predetermined operating plan.  And forget it if it might lower the operating ratio.

 

The needed skill for the marketing department is to know the markets and how the railroad can profitably serve those markets.  You can't ad hoc the operation for every customer.  Unfortunately, I don’t currently see much of that skill in the railroads’ marketing efforts. 

 

Today’s marketing people don’t seem to know what a railroad can do.  Along the way someone is inevitably going to say: “No, that can’t possibly work.”  If the marketing folks don’t know better, and it seems they don’t, they’ll take that “No.” 

 

There is a natural conflict between marketing and operations.  This conflict can be beneficial, or it can be toxic.  A weak, unknowledgeable marketing department makes it toxic.

 

Here’s a great example of what can be done with some creativity and knowledge.  CN established an intermodal terminal in Chippewa Falls, WI.

 

CNIntermodal_FactSheet2page.pdf (chippewa-wi.com)

 

The facility is focused on reloading containers to Asia with animal feed.  Primarily distillers’ dried grains.  These are what is left over after corn is turned in to ethanol for motor fuel. 

 

There are a whole lot of other such opportunities.

 

It's critical to relize that the problem is not that the railroads don't want the business.  It's that they simply don't have the ability to evaluate and develop the business.

 

[Murphy Siding]

greyhounds

 

 

SD60MAC9500

Maybe it's time RR's looked into shifting most building materials into the IM network. Add Flatracks into the mix as they can be double stacked, are relatively cheap to build, don't carry the burden of boxcar investment, and can haul a multitude of items from lumber to steel products. Anything over size can use a flatcar.  

 

 

I'll more than agree with that.  (except for the double stack)  Going IM would reduce the investment risks since the equipment could be more readily repurposed if the lumber traffic went away.  Reducing those risks will reduce the costs of acquiring new equipment.  (Again, it doesn’t matter if a railroad or a 3^rd party acquires the equipment.  The risk costs are there and must be accounted for.)

Here’s my favorite, the curtain side.  I’d use containers instead of trailers.

curtain side flatbed - Bing images

A sawmill (or paper mill) is a concentrated point of freight origin.  So, an on-site intermodal terminal is a consideration.  Bring in empty curtain side containers on spine cars.  The shipper can load the containers while they are on the spine cars.  No need for container lift on/lift off.  The curtain side containers will provide protection for the commodity against the elements.

Pick the car up with the local, as would be done with a boxcar.  Move it to an existing IM terminal and get it on a fast train toward destination.  The loads can then be distributed by truck to various consignees.  This allows them to receive in smaller quantities and reduces their inventory carrying cost. 

Unlike a center beam the containers can be loaded in both directions.  UPS, FedEx, LTL, most anything, can go in those containers. (Boxcars are also quite limited in their reload potential.)

I actually got something such as this tried.  I even got a container leasing company to lend us a flat rack free of charge for a trial. I should have been on the ground for the trial.  But I had to go on my two week’s duty with the Illinois National Guard.  So, it’s just a memory.

Now, some of you feel free to tell me why this can’t possibly work.

 

This is interesting. I'm not saying this won't work. I'm just war-gaming this in my mind and I have some questions.

       I run a lumber yard that gets OSB and lumber on railcars and by truck. A typical rail car of OSB comes on a centerbeam car. It consists of 2 piles of 27 units, one on each side. Each pile is 4' wide, 72' long and 9' high. Weight of the product is around 186,00#. For a typical lumber delivery, the piles are 49" wide, 80' long, 11'high. Weight is, I believe around 193,000#(?)

     A typical truckload would be about 13 units of OSB (45,000# more or less). A truckload of wood would be similar in weight.

     Once you add the tare weight of the container to the spine car, I wonder how much OSB you could put in a softside container? Is 40' the outside dimension of a container? If so, you could only put 4 units end to end. The units are 36" high. How high could yo stack them. How many units @ 3400# each could you put in a softside container? How many total on a spine car?

     You could get 38' of lumber units in a 40 container. That's about 11,500# per row. How much fits in container, how much on spine car?

     What holds the units of lumber or OSB in place without a centerbeam to tie the load down too? While the units are wrapped to make them weather-proof, they are now banded with wimpy nylon banding. The material moves a lot in rail transit due slach action. We alos see loads shifted from side-to-side, even when tied to the center beam frame. Trucks have the same problem, maybe worse. I used to work at a lumber yard by an interstate highway. We made money shifting and restacking loads for truckers. Without a center beam to tie to, you'd be moving a tall deck of cards down the rails.

      Taking that all into account, how competitive would something like this be with trucking? Consider material moving from Western Canada to eastern South Dakota. 

[greyhounds]

Murphy Siding

 I run a lumber yard that gets OSB and lumber on railcars and by truck. A typical rail car of OSB comes on a centerbeam car. It consists of 2 piles of 27 units, one on each side. Each pile is 4' wide, 72' long and 9' high. Weight of the product is around 186,00#. For a typical lumber delivery, the piles are 49" wide, 80' long, 11'high. Weight is, I believe around 193,000#(?)      A typical truckload would be about 13 units of OSB (45,000# more or less). A truckload of wood would be similar in weight.      Once you add the tare weight of the container to the spine car, I wonder how much OSB you could put in a softside container? Is 40' the outside dimension of a container? If so, you could only put 4 units end to end. The units are 36" high. How high could yo stack them. How many units @ 3400# each could you put in a softside container? How many total on a spine car?      You could get 38' of lumber units in a 40 container. That's about 11,500# per row. How much fits in container, how much on spine car?      What holds the units of lumber or OSB in place without a centerbeam to tie the load down too? While the units are wrapped to make them weather-proof, they are now banded with wimpy nylon banding. The material moves a lot in rail transit due slach action. We alos see loads shifted from side-to-side, even when tied to the center beam frame. Trucks have the same problem, maybe worse. I used to work at a lumber yard by an interstate highway. We made money shifting and restacking loads for truckers. Without a center beam to tie to, you'd be moving a tall deck of cards down the rails.       Taking that all into account, how competitive would something like this be with trucking? Consider material moving from Western Canada to eastern South Dakota. 

Those are some good questions and some equally good information.

 

Forty-foot containers are out of the question.  They are the standard for international movement by ships.  But within North America, the standard is 53 feet for both over the road trucks and rail containers.  A railroad can’t use 40 feet and be competitive with a 53-foot truck. 

 

The containers in the proposed system will be of 53-foot length.  Spine cars are designed to handle 53-foot containers. 

 

Remember, we want to reload the containers with general freight westbound avoiding empty, non-revenue miles as much as we can.  And we want to be able to repurpose the investment (equipment) when this lumber boom is over.  So, we’ll need 53-foot equipment to do that.

 

The weights will be equivalent.  The proposed intermodal system will deliver 45,000-pound loads just as the truckers do.  In all probability the proposed IM system will deliver at “Truck Plus One.”  That will be truck delivery time plus one day.  A lower rail price must compensate for that.  And the rail service must be consistent.

 

I’d have to get an engineer or two involved to work out the load securement.  But I don’t see it as a major obstacle to intermodal movement.

 

Until my quest for an intermodal terminal near Sioux City is completed the OSB and lumber will have to be drayed out of the nearest IM terminal, Council Bluffs, IA.  I have this at 180 miles and around a 3 ½ hour run on an Interstate Highway.  So, a driver could easily do a round trip in a shift.  Then he/she would be home to sleep in their own bed and kiss their significant other good night.  If you want to retain a good truck driver you must:  1) pay them well 2) treat them well and, 3) get them home as much as possible.

 

I estimate the 360 mile round trip at $720 US.  I hate giving such money to the truckers.  Put a damn IM terminal at Sioux City.  There’s lots of freight and money to be had.

 

A mill in BC, or wherever, could load out five truckloads on a spine car.  Each load going to a different receiver in the population centers of Sioux Falls, Sioux City, Omaha, etc.  I reason it would work.  It’s worth a try. 

It would, of course, have to save the customer money.  The railroad can do that. 

 

I’ve got the average flatbed truck rate in the US (from DAT) at $2.90/mile.  For a five platform spine that’s $14.50/mile.  2-3 of those will pay for a train.  The railroad can beat the truck price easily. 

 

If their marketing department can think and innovate. 

 

If this were actually going somewhere it would be time to talk to the potential shippers and receivers to identify and work out any potential problems.

[Murphy Siding]

 

 

Some related thoughts-

Our yard is 83 miles from the main Sioux City railyard. A driver could make 2 trips a day to us and sleep at home that night.

 

Since we are used to buying a railcar which is equivalent to about 4 trucks, we could easily do 4 containers at a time. Sometimes we get 2 cars at a time, = 8 containers.

A Sioux City intermodal ramp could also service Des Moines and Lincoln which are fair sized markets.

Sioux City is served by UP, BNSF and CN.

What potential freight could you haul out of Sioux City that doesn't involve refrigerated cow and pig parts?

[greyhounds]

Murphy Siding

What potential freight could you haul out of Sioux City that doesn't involve refrigerated cow and pig parts?

Hides and honey.

[Murphy Siding]

greyhounds

 

 

 

Murphy Siding

What potential freight could you haul out of Sioux City that doesn't involve refrigerated cow and pig parts?

 

 

Hides and honey.

 

Honey?

[greyhounds]

Murphy Siding

Honey?

Sue Bee Honey.  Regular shipper back in the day.

Sue Bee - Sioux Honey Association Co-Op

 

 

[SD60MAC9500]

 

greyhounds

 

 

Murphy Siding

Honey?

 

 

Sue Bee Honey.  Regular shipper back in the day.

Sue Bee - Sioux Honey Association Co-Op

 

 

 

 

While we're talking about my favorite sweet. North Dakota is the top producer in the US when it comes to honey. As of 2020's reporting. ND Apiaries produced 38.6 Million pounds of this deliciousness.

BNSF? CP? Or maybe the margins on this traffic are to low too justify moving it..

 

 

 

[BaltACD]

SD60MAC9500

 

greyhounds 

Murphy Siding

Honey? 

Sue Bee Honey.  Regular shipper back in the day.

Sue Bee - Sioux Honey Association Co-Opking about my favorite sweet. North Dakota is the top producer in the US when it comes to honey. As of 2020's reporting. ND Apiaries produced 38.6 Million pounds of this deliciousness.

BNSF? CP? Or maybe the margins on this traffic are to low to justify moving it..

 

[greyhounds]

SD60MAC9500

BNSF? CP? Or maybe the margins on this traffic are to low to justify moving it..

Doesn't seem so.  They don't just home consume all that honey in North Dakota.

There is a demand for honey.  One governing factor in that demand is the price of honey.  The price to the end user must cover all costs, including transport to Chicago, New York, wherever.  Since we can all buy honey whenever we've a mind to I'll say it pays to ship the honey from the production centers to the consuming centers.

Sue Bee is a major producer and ships its production to population centers.

[Murphy Siding]

greyhounds

 

Murphy Siding

Honey?

 

 

Sue Bee Honey.  Regular shipper back in the day.

Sue Bee - Sioux Honey Association Co-Op

 

 

 

SWEET !!!

[greyhounds]

OK, enough with the honey.

I once calculated that the Tyson beef plant in Dakota City, NE (it's like nine miles from Sioux City) created ~37 truckloads per workday of cowhides.  Since then the plant's capacity has been increased.

The packers don't want to waste a thing from the slaughtered animal.  Cowhides are one of the more valuable byproducts.

[BaltACD]

greyhounds

OK, enough with the honey.

I once calculated that the Tyson beef plant in Dakota City, NE (it's like nine miles from Sioux City) created 37 truckloads per workday of cowhides.  Since then the plant's capacity has been increased.

The packers don't want to waste a thing from the slaughtered animal.  Cowhides are one of the more valuable byproducts.

When I worked the B&O's FY Tower in Pittsburgh (that was BOLTED) to the 33rd Street Bridge across the Allegheny River - the bridge had piers on Herr's Island which housed a animal rendering plant - the plant shipped out hides in box cars and in the pre-EPA days dumped all the liquid remanents of their operations directly into the river at about 6 PM daily!  On 2nd trick, if you hadn't completed lunch by dump time, you were unlikely to have the taste left to eat anything account the gagging smell.

[Murphy Siding]

greyhounds

OK, enough with the honey.

I once calculated that the Tyson beef plant in Dakota City, NE (it's like nine miles from Sioux City) created ~37 truckloads per workday of cowhides.  Since then the plant's capacity has been increased.

The packers don't want to waste a thing from the slaughtered animal.  Cowhides are one of the more valuable byproducts.

 

If I understand the idea in our example, a truck takes the soft-side container full of cowhides from Dakota City to the IM terminal at Sioux City. From there it's shipped by rail to Timbuctoo. There, they are unloaded and hauled by truck to the ACME recliner factory (or whoever has use for cow hides.) Then, hopefully the container is loaded with something for the midwest market and shipped back to Sioux City.

     I could see this working and I could see this taking a lot of effort to get started. You'd need to identify all the possible loads in and out of the IM terminal and try to keep the containers loaded and moving.

*~37 truckloads of cowhides a day? That seems like a lot. What space does a cowhide take up- 3 to 4 cubic feet maybe? That's a lot of cows per day! I know, I know. It's details, and we need to look at the big picture, but things like that always throw a monkey wrench into my over-analyzing mind....I wonder how many monkey wrenches it takes to fill a container?

[BaltACD]

Murphy Siding

 

greyhounds

OK, enough with the honey.

I once calculated that the Tyson beef plant in Dakota City, NE (it's like nine miles from Sioux City) created ~37 truckloads per workday of cowhides.  Since then the plant's capacity has been increased.

The packers don't want to waste a thing from the slaughtered animal.  Cowhides are one of the more valuable byproducts. 

If I understand the idea in our example, a truck takes the soft-side container full of cowhides from Dakota City to the IM terminal at Sioux City. From there it's shipped by rail to Timbuctoo. There, they are unloaded and hauled by truck to the ACME recliner factory (or whoever has use for cow hides.) Then, hopefully the container is loaded with something for the midwest market and shipped back to Sioux City.

     I could see this working and I could see this taking a lot of effort to get started. You'd need to identify all the possible loads in and out of the IM terminal and try to keep the containers loaded and moving.

*~37 truckloads of cowhides a day? That seems like a lot. What space does a cowhide take up- 3 to 4 cubic feet maybe? That's a lot of cows per day! I know, I know. It's details, and we need to look at the big picture, but things like that always throw a monkey wrench into my over-analyzing mind....I wonder how many monkey wrenches it takes to fill a container?

Hides SMELL - anything that is used to haul hides - basically cannot be used to haul anything else - at least anything else that is subject to having useers smell it.

[greyhounds]

Murphy Siding

     I could see this working and I could see this taking a lot of effort to get started. You'd need to identify all the possible loads in and out of the IM terminal and try to keep the containers loaded and moving.

Yes, that was part of my job in marketing.  That's what we're there to do.

Murphy Siding

 

*~37 truckloads of cowhides a day? That seems like a lot. What space does a cowhide take up- 3 to 4 cubic feet maybe? That's a lot of cows per day! I know, I know. It's details, and we need to look at the big picture, but things like that always throw a monkey wrench into my over-analyzing mind....I wonder how many monkey wrenches it takes to fill a container?

Well, they were killing around 4,000 cattle per day back then.  They kill more today.  I'll try to go back to the calculation, but 4,000 hides per day worked out to ~37 truckloads.  If you've got a better figure I'll consider it.  I don't claim perfection, but I do projections.  I accept that I can project incorrectly.  Show me that I did.

 

[greyhounds]

Upon further review, I cannot recreate my number of 37 truckloads of hides per day.  And I can't find the calculation that produced that number.  

My new number is 7.33 truckloads of hides per day.

This is calculated at 5,000 cattle per work day times 66 pounds per hide.  I've estimated a truckload at 45,000 ponds.

I'll thank Murphy Siding for catching my error.

 

[tree68]

greyhounds

  I've estimated a truckload at 45,000 ponds.

Will they cube out or tare out?

[Overmod]

tree68

greyhounds

  I've estimated a truckload at 45,000 ponds.

Will they cube out or tare out?

Depends on the volume of the ponds.  All that water would count as tare weight.  But even 45,000 puddles would add measurably to the cubage... 

Seriously: I'd expect tare long before cube for hides.  Depends to an extent how the hides are packaged for shipping, and what sort of dunnage is appropriate.

[greyhounds]

tree68

Will they cube out or tare out?

If this was for real it would be time to go talk with the potential customers such as Tyson.

 

I reason they’ll hit the weight limit before they cube out.  They’re not like appliances or furniture where you have a lot of empty space in the load. 

[SD70Dude]

greyhounds

The needed skill for the marketing department is to know the markets and how the railroad can profitably serve those markets.  You can't ad hoc the operation for every customer.  Unfortunately, I don’t currently see much of that skill in the railroads’ marketing efforts. 

 

Today’s marketing people don’t seem to know what a railroad can do.  Along the way someone is inevitably going to say: “No, that can’t possibly work.”  If the marketing folks don’t know better, and it seems they don’t, they’ll take that “No.” 

 

There is a natural conflict between marketing and operations.  This conflict can be beneficial, or it can be toxic.  A weak, unknowledgeable marketing department makes it toxic.

 

Here’s a great example of what can be done with some creativity and knowledge.  CN established an intermodal terminal in Chippewa Falls, WI.

 

CNIntermodal_FactSheet2page.pdf (chippewa-wi.com)

 

The facility is focused on reloading containers to Asia with animal feed.  Primarily distillers’ dried grains.  These are what is left over after corn is turned in to ethanol for motor fuel. 

 

There are a whole lot of other such opportunities.

 

It's critical to relize that the problem is not that the railroads don't want the business.  It's that they simply don't have the ability to evaluate and develop the business.

It is also worth noting that when PSR 'streamlines' operations the marketing department is hit hard.  No real need to communicate with customers if you are going to dictate what sort of service they will receive.  And forget about recruiting new business.

The Chippewa Falls example is not the only smaller intermodal terminal on CN.  Prince George exists mainly to reload forest products into containers (mostly westbound for export through Prince Rupert), and I believe Arcadia, WI is almost completely dedicated to Ashley Furniture's business.

[Murphy Siding]

greyhounds

Upon further review, I cannot recreate my number of 37 truckloads of hides per day.  And I can't find the calculation that produced that number.  

My new number is 7.33 truckloads of hides per day.

This is calculated at 5,000 cattle per work day times 66 pounds per hide.  I've estimated a truckload at 45,000 ponds.

I'll thank Murphy Siding for catching my error.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean for it to come off like that. I was just astounded by the 37 carload number and it made me wonder. I'm not a farm kid. I grew up in western South Dakota that has pasture land, hayfields and some wheat fields. I had never seen a cornfield or soybean field until I went to college in the east end of the state. The only thing I knew was that the tall ones were cows, the short ones were pigs and the fuzzy ones were sheep.

      Would an undertaking like we're talking about be better acomplished by a third party outside of the railroads' control and narrow-focused thinking? If the ACME Logistics Company came to a railroad with all the heavy lift done, would the railroad be interested?

[greyhounds]

BaltACD

Hides SMELL - anything that is used to haul hides - basically cannot be used to haul anything else - at least anything else that is subject to having useers smell it.

I certainly don’t want to get crosswise with Balt.  He brings experience and knowledge to these discussions and expresses himself well without resorting to personal attacks.  But… 

 

This is an example of a “No, this can’t possibly work” statement that will stop a marketing business development idea cold.  Unless the marketing people are determined and knowledgeable this “It’ll wreck the equipment” statement will leave the hide loads on the highway.  This needs to be dealt with as a problem to be solved.  Not as a total showstopper.

 

I’ll agree that if the container were to have a wood floor or wood siding the hide loads would badly contaminate the wood and make the container unsuitable for transporting much else. 

 

So, don’t use wood.  Use a container with a metal floor (aluminum or steel) and curtain sides.  A good power washout at the hides’ destination should solve the problem. 

 

But the marketing folks must know this and have the will to push back.  Today’s rail marketing folks don’t seem to have the required knowledge or will.

[BaltACD]

greyhounds

 

BaltACD

Hides SMELL - anything that is used to haul hides - basically cannot be used to haul anything else - at least anything else that is subject to having useers smell it. 

I certainly don’t want to get crosswise with Balt.  He brings experience and knowledge to these discussions and expresses himself well without resorting to personal attacks.  But… 

 

This is an example of a “No, this can’t possibly work” statement that will stop a marketing business development idea cold.  Unless the marketing people are determined and knowledgeable this “It’ll wreck the equipment” statement will leave the hide loads on the highway.  This needs to be dealt with as a problem to be solved.  Not as a total showstopper.

 

I’ll agree that if the container were to have a wood floor or wood siding the hide loads would badly contaminate the wood and make the container unsuitable for transporting much else. 

 

So, don’t use wood.  Use a container with a metal floor (aluminum or steel) and curtain sides.  A good power washout at the hides’ destination should solve the problem. 

 

But the marketing folks must know this and have the will to push back.  Today’s rail marketing folks don’t seem to have the required knowledge or will.

As long as you Steam Clean the vehicles after Hide use and you are next transporting a commodity that doesn't have smell or the lack thereof as some element of its sale appeal.  The composition of the vehicle is not material - wood, metal, composite materials - smell attaches to each material.  

Smell is a powerful element of the human existance - for good and for ill.  It doesn't take much of a 'bad smell' to turn public sentiments.  When I was living in Jacksonville there was a major political effort to get rid of the smells of paper making from the paper plants in the area.  The 19th and early 20th Century people accepted smell as a necessary part of local economic activity.  The smell of hides, the smell of paper making, the smell of rubber making - in the late 20th and into the 21st Century those smells are no longer acceptable.

[Murphy Siding]

BaltACD

 

greyhounds

 

BaltACD

Hides SMELL - anything that is used to haul hides - basically cannot be used to haul anything else - at least anything else that is subject to having useers smell it. 

I certainly don’t want to get crosswise with Balt.  He brings experience and knowledge to these discussions and expresses himself well without resorting to personal attacks.  But… 

 

This is an example of a “No, this can’t possibly work” statement that will stop a marketing business development idea cold.  Unless the marketing people are determined and knowledgeable this “It’ll wreck the equipment” statement will leave the hide loads on the highway.  This needs to be dealt with as a problem to be solved.  Not as a total showstopper.

 

I’ll agree that if the container were to have a wood floor or wood siding the hide loads would badly contaminate the wood and make the container unsuitable for transporting much else. 

 

So, don’t use wood.  Use a container with a metal floor (aluminum or steel) and curtain sides.  A good power washout at the hides’ destination should solve the problem. 

 

But the marketing folks must know this and have the will to push back.  Today’s rail marketing folks don’t seem to have the required knowledge or will.

 

 

As long as you Steam Clean the vehicles after Hide use and you are next transporting a commodity that doesn't have smell or the lack thereof as some element of its sale appeal.  The composition of the vehicle is not material - wood, metal, composite materials - smell attaches to each material.  

Smell is a powerful element of the human existance - for good and for ill.  It doesn't take much of a 'bad smell' to turn public sentiments.  When I was living in Jacksonville there was a major political effort to get rid of the smells of paper making from the paper plants in the area.  The 19th and early 20th Century people accepted smell as a necessary part of local economic activity.  The smell of hides, the smell of paper making, the smell of rubber making - in the late 20th and into the 21st Century those smells are no longer acceptable.

 

How do trucks hauling those same stinky hides make out? Do they deadhead back from the destination to Tyson all the time?

[Convicted One]

BaltACD

Smell is a powerful element of the human existance - for good and for ill. It doesn't take much of a 'bad smell' to turn public sentiments.

I recall several years ago there was a story in Trains magazine stating that once a boxcar hauls hides, thereafter it is unfit for anything else.

Stretching memory thin, but I think I recall it was one of the Al Perlman stories, where he couldn't believe that some subordinate was not aware of that aspect.