I know the discussion is mainly about the reasons the wheelchair was even in that situation.
The other part of the story remains that this policewoman did an amazing rescue of this man. She was very close to losing her life trying to save his.
York1 John
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/13/44/17/19809262/3/920x920.jpg
From Mike. It was that close.
Euclid The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.
The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.
There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device. Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well.
If, indeed, there was a wheel stuck in the flangeway, it would suggest that he started across, realized a train was coming, and tried to turn around. Given the time frame of the video, it's likely he'd have been better off just "goosing" it and getting across the tracks.
We've seen enough stories about motorists getting flustered at crossings to give this some credence.
And there's the possibility he was fouling the tracks on purpose, sorry to say.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
BaltACD Euclid The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.
Yes, something like that. Maybe split them so there are two narrow, rotating segments that run on the roadway at the widest gauge, and then reduce the diameter a bit for the rest of the cylinder, so it clears the roadway, but is there to prevent the whole assembly from dropping down into the flangeways. Then have the two rolling segments free of each other so they can turn independently and not scrub with so much friction on the roadway when they have to pivot as casters. That would be similar to a lot of chair casters that each have two independent wheels. They should be at least 6" dia. and could be sclupted out to reduce the massiveness.
EuclidThe wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACDI feel certain the train did stop, but a big train at or near track speed takes time to stop be in Emergency or Service. If the train didn't stop that would have been the second lead of the story.
You can hear the brakes taking hold in teh video. Plus if you slow it down, you can see the pistons are all the way out on the cars.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
tree68 From what I could make out from the video, this wasn't your garden variety wheelchair, with skinny wheels - it was a motorized version. Those usually have some pretty fat wheels on them. In fact you can catch a glimpse of the rear caster wheels in the video.
From what I could make out from the video, this wasn't your garden variety wheelchair, with skinny wheels - it was a motorized version. Those usually have some pretty fat wheels on them. In fact you can catch a glimpse of the rear caster wheels in the video.
Didn't watch the video and am not familiar with the motorized wheelchairs, so can't comment on them. My mother-in-law used two electric scooter chairs during her last few years. One of them was a big heavy thing with pneumatic tires about 3 inches wide and 8 or 10 inches in diameter, which would have no issues with a RR crossing approached at a 90 degree angle. However, her other scooter was much smaller and lighter, designed to be broken down and the parts stowed in a car trunk. It had narrow solid tires about 4 inches in diameter that would have had serious issues with a RR crossing even if approached at a 90 degree angle. One's equipment has to be at least a part of the solution to the problem of RR crossings.
I got a still from Mike of the man in the wheelchair stuck on the tracks which unfortunately I can't manage to link or insert.
However, the chair is parallel to the tracks, and one of the wheels is either stuck in the gap between the rail and the "ramp" and it appears to have a flat tire, or maybe the photo just gives that impression.
It looks like instead of proceeding directly across the tracks the man in the chair turned for some reason and got the chair stuck.
Flintlock76While I try to be understanding and realize that given the choice they wouldn't be in a wheelchair I can't help but think if it was irresponsible behavior that put them in the wheelchair to begin with.
Lithonia OperatorI haven't seen any reporting on this, but I'm assuming the wheelchair/scooter was demolished, right? And did the train stop? From what I could tell, that train was going very fast, and did not seem to be braking. In an incident like this, wouldn't the train be required to stop if the wheelchair was hit?
I feel certain the train did stop, but a big train at or near track speed takes time to stop be in Emergency or Service. If the train didn't stop that would have been the second lead of the story.
I haven't seen any reporting on this, but I'm assuming the wheelchair/scooter was demolished, right? And did the train stop? From what I could tell, that train was going very fast, and did not seem to be braking. In an incident like this, wouldn't the train be required to stop if the wheelchair was hit?
OvermodPerhaps I wouldn't be so confident if there weren't several people who drive these things up and down and up and down in front of and around my wife's residential compound, without any particular care for people trying to enter and leave in cars. Embeds the details in your mind after a while, it does..
Which reminds me of a number of people I've seen in wheelchairs or powered scooters (or variations of the same) behaving very irresponsibly in parking lots, streets, crossings, or what have you.
While I try to be understanding and realize that given the choice they wouldn't be in a wheelchair I can't help but think if it was irresponsible behavior that put them in the wheelchair to begin with.
I know that doesn't sound very charitable but it does make me wonder, know what I mean?
charlie hebdoFiguring out model of device from that video reminds me of a guy in HS who used to claim he was extrapolating on his sliderule to many places beyond reality...
This uncomfortably reminds me of how many decimal places I used in my sophomore-year lab reports ... before we had the training on significant-figure analysis. (I figured 'let the reader do the rounding he wants'...)
There are quite a few frames in that bodycam video that clearly show the type of scooter, right down to the red plastic shell and the light-colored side tires, and the rear caster. It would have been helpful if the bodycam hadn't 'bobbed up' just at the wrong point as she's approaching. The upright backrest and general 'riding position' are obvious in later frames.
Perhaps I wouldn't be so confident if there weren't several people who drive these things up and down and up and down in front of and around my wife's residential compound, without any particular care for people trying to enter and leave in cars. Embeds the details in your mind after a while, it does...
Figuring out model of device from that video reminds me if a guy in HS who used to claim he was extrapolating on his sliderule to many places beyond reality. .
BaltACDBatteries aren't light.
'Xactly.
tree68 rdamon It was hard to see in the body cam video, but was that a powered scooter or a traditional wheelchair? My vote goes to the powered scooter. A headrest is definitely visible in the video - most "traditional" wheel chairs don't have that style of headrest. Too, the officer would have likely been able to drag a regular wheelchair out of the way, unless it was really wedged into the flangeway. Those scooters are heavy.
rdamon It was hard to see in the body cam video, but was that a powered scooter or a traditional wheelchair?
It was hard to see in the body cam video, but was that a powered scooter or a traditional wheelchair?
My vote goes to the powered scooter. A headrest is definitely visible in the video - most "traditional" wheel chairs don't have that style of headrest.
Too, the officer would have likely been able to drag a regular wheelchair out of the way, unless it was really wedged into the flangeway. Those scooters are heavy.
Batteries aren't light.
Ulrich: Or were the gate foundations moved back because of the numerous strikes by over-wide trucks and inebriated motorists? (cross-bucks and signal masts are constantly under attack by the rubber-tired side who can't comprehend staying in their lane)
That looks like a Hoveround or equivalent 'mobility solution' which has two fairly broad pneumatic tired wheels on the sides and casters fore and aft: it is driven by independent electric motors on the two side wheels.
The only wheel I see aligned with a flangeway in the brief part of the video that shows the scooter is the right main wheel. It does not appear to be jammed in any way or even with its sidewalk depressed; a couple of the stories indicate that the officer first tried to save the machine but it could not be either moved or tilted.
It appears he was belted into the thing somehow and pulling him out threw his legs to the opposite side where one of them contacted part of the train-- it was that close.
Likely it was a problem with the wheelchair or it somehow got lodged in the track. Often the engineers don't think through every detail.. i.e. how difficult would it be to cross here in a wheelchair?
Paul of Covington mudchicken Mod: anything placed above the top of rail is a bozo no-no. (FRA/CaPUC/AREMA)....the same goes for any striping in the foul zone How about filling the gaps with something resilient that would support the weight of people but squish down under the rail traffic? I seem to remember seeing that somewhere, but I'm trying to remember where. Maybe it was streetcar tracks.
mudchicken Mod: anything placed above the top of rail is a bozo no-no. (FRA/CaPUC/AREMA)....the same goes for any striping in the foul zone
How about filling the gaps with something resilient that would support the weight of people but squish down under the rail traffic? I seem to remember seeing that somewhere, but I'm trying to remember where. Maybe it was streetcar tracks.
Paul of Covington How about filling the gaps with something resilient that would support the weight of people but squish down under the rail traffic?
Don't forget, while the leading edge of the wheel is pushing down, the trailing edge is pushing up.
Locally here there is a rubber-like gasket piece that they put in some crossings to flush up the gap.
They don't seem to hold up very well, and need changing more often than whoever is responsible seems to be willing to change them out.
Basically a "bolt-on" failure point, from my perspective.
Said chair also appeared to be oriented along the tracks, instead of crossing them. If he was simply crossing the tracks, this might mean he panicked and tried to turn around.
Or he got confused with the controls, or maybe the battery chose that moment to die.
mudchicken: anything placed above the top of rail is a bozo no-no.
It still wouldn't surprise me if the ADA people pushed something like that through. Practicality is often barely an afterthought.
Sorr, I'm just so tired of it all.
mudchickenMod: anything placed above the top of rail is a bozo no-no. (FRA/CaPUC/AREMA)....the same goes for any striping in the foul zone
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
mudchickenZugs: Who gets the "come to jesus" moment, the City Engineer or the CA PUC who approved the design? WCH has a secondary pedX-ng gate to cover sidewalks going behind the gate, but the road agency probably did not want to pay for it and CaPUC probably did not see the need for it.
Going up and down the street, at least they are consistent. Holy cow, I'm guessing they widened the street at one point?
zugmannWas that political crap comment really necessary here?
Look there for your fix if you want to discuss defunding... many more potentially appreciative readers there.
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