I would not attribute this incident to some sort of operator error on the part of the person in the wheelchair. The fact is that the deep flangeways are a death trap integral to the fundamental design. How many centuries does it take to realize this?
The person in the wheelchair has every right to turn in any direction for any reason when crossing. Is there a law that says otherwise? Is there a law that says bicyclists must cross perpendicular to the rails? Some crossing installations are not perpendicular to the rails. In that case, are bicyclists expected to follow the crossing route and then suddenly veer sideways to cross the rails as vehicular traffic follows the road alignment?
zugmann I wonder if this was called in or the police officer happened upon it. And if it was called in - did anyone call the # on the blue notification sign? How many people even are aware of the emergency notification signs? And how long was the wheelchair stuck there, and how many simply drove by? Lots of questions. Few answers.
I wonder if this was called in or the police officer happened upon it. And if it was called in - did anyone call the # on the blue notification sign? How many people even are aware of the emergency notification signs?
And how long was the wheelchair stuck there, and how many simply drove by?
Lots of questions. Few answers.
This was addressed in a previous post with a link to an interview with the policewoman. She was just driving by, and turned around to go back to help.
This is the link it the previous post:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6L9EDNJT1I
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
charlie hebdo As Euclid points out in part, deep flangeways at crossings...
He was a good distance from the offending pole - there was no reason for him to be aligned with the flangeways at that point.
Panic seems to make the most sense.
As I mentioned before - one might wonder how many times he's made the selfsame crossing in the past. What was different about this trip?
Does this crossing have a history of wheelchairs getting caught in the flangeways? Is it different from other crossings?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Panic, confusion could be other reasons. Others have posted the most likely reasons: blocked by pole or attempting to turn around and go back.
In 2017, there were 2024 rail crossing accidents, with 271 deaths and 846 injuries. More should be done than blaming victims and exonerating the rails of any responsibility.
zugmann tree68 Still unanswered is why he was perpendicular to what one would think would have been his route of travel across the crossing. Maybe heading out to the street to get around the crossing pole that was bolted to the middle of the sidewalk?
tree68 Still unanswered is why he was perpendicular to what one would think would have been his route of travel across the crossing.
Maybe heading out to the street to get around the crossing pole that was bolted to the middle of the sidewalk?
Why would a fully obstructed sidewalk make anyone in wheelchair take a detour around it? [/sarcasm]
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
tree68Still unanswered is why he was perpendicular to what one would think would have been his route of travel across the crossing.
I agree. And uninformed, irresponsible speculation on here is simply wrong. Our railroads seem to have a problem with safe crossings. Why? Built on the cheap originally and a refusal to keep up to date now.
BaltACD charlie hebdo BaltACD tree68 charlie hebdo According to the CDC, of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison, then asphyxiation. #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group, but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning. But it does happen. Families strive to have suicides reported as accidental - with guns, poison and asphyxiation by hanging it is difficult to be able to argue it was accidental - being killed by a train is much easier to argue that it was 'accidental', when it really wasn't. You and tree really love to rationalize when facts are against you and railroads. As Euclid points out in part, deep flangeways at crossings are yet another public health hazard from corporations more interested in satisfying hedge fund managers than providing safety and service. In cab videos disagree.
charlie hebdo BaltACD tree68 charlie hebdo According to the CDC, of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison, then asphyxiation. #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group, but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning. But it does happen. Families strive to have suicides reported as accidental - with guns, poison and asphyxiation by hanging it is difficult to be able to argue it was accidental - being killed by a train is much easier to argue that it was 'accidental', when it really wasn't. You and tree really love to rationalize when facts are against you and railroads. As Euclid points out in part, deep flangeways at crossings are yet another public health hazard from corporations more interested in satisfying hedge fund managers than providing safety and service.
BaltACD tree68 charlie hebdo According to the CDC, of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison, then asphyxiation. #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group, but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning. But it does happen. Families strive to have suicides reported as accidental - with guns, poison and asphyxiation by hanging it is difficult to be able to argue it was accidental - being killed by a train is much easier to argue that it was 'accidental', when it really wasn't.
tree68 charlie hebdo According to the CDC, of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison, then asphyxiation. #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group, but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning. But it does happen.
charlie hebdo According to the CDC, of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison, then asphyxiation. #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group, but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning.
According to the CDC, of the 47,193 suicides in the US in 2017 (#10 cause of deaths) half are by guns, then poison, then asphyxiation. #4 is "Other" representing only 7.8%. Suicide by train would be somewhere in that group, but likely trailing fall from high places and drowning.
But it does happen.
Families strive to have suicides reported as accidental - with guns, poison and asphyxiation by hanging it is difficult to be able to argue it was accidental - being killed by a train is much easier to argue that it was 'accidental', when it really wasn't.
You and tree really love to rationalize when facts are against you and railroads. As Euclid points out in part, deep flangeways at crossings are yet another public health hazard from corporations more interested in satisfying hedge fund managers than providing safety and service.
In cab videos disagree.
There is also considerable stigma brought upon the victim of suicide and the people close to the person who commits or attempts suicide. There was a suicide by train near where I once lived, and all the local people knew about it from the witnesses and the responders. We were all told that the media routinely withholds reporting suicides because of the stigma. And that suicide was not reported, to the best of my knowledge.
In this case, the person in the wheelchair survived and does not deserve any suicide stigma resulting from only the speculation that a suicide attempt was merely a possibility.
https://www.suicideinfo.ca/resource/suicideandstigma/
The deep flangeways at crossings are a problem that should have been fixed years ago. They have killed people and impose hazards including entrapment of small wheels, footware, and grabbing bicycle tires which can throw off the rider.
I suspect the problem will soon be eliminated by the SHALLOW FLANGEWAY product being installed in all grade crossings.
The still images do appear to show not one, but two, wheels stuck in the flangeway, which does tend to rule out suicide.
Without that information, suicide is a rule-out option. That he had his back to the oncoming train is a consideration in that, in my mind, in that he didn't want to see it coming, if suicide was, indeed, his intention.
But, yeah, it's off the table for this incident.
Still unanswered is why he was perpendicular to what one would think would have been his route of travel across the crossing.
BaltACDRailroads continue to be one of the means of choice for suicidal individuals - how they desire the railroad to kill them differs, there are a multitude of ways.
We seem to have one every month or so on the Coaster/Amtrak route through the costal cities in San Diego County, in addition to the "impaired" pedestrians. It's just brutal on the train crews and first responders.
From Mike:
https://www.gofundme.com/f/jonathan-mata039s?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link&utm_campaign=p_cf%20share-flow-1&fbclid=IwAR3QLH3EsXmF4Ojq4uBzL3kdBZwSUnaSYUQtakfvfXgm1c_tSJpEhns6eQk
Lithonia Operator The cop had to pull the guy off of the chair because it was stuck in the flangeway. If he was attempting to kill himself, he would have had no reason to get himself stuck; he would have just rolled himself out there and stopped.
The cop had to pull the guy off of the chair because it was stuck in the flangeway. If he was attempting to kill himself, he would have had no reason to get himself stuck; he would have just rolled himself out there and stopped.
I agree. I think the stuck wheel chair rules out suicide
charlie hebdo tree68 Euclid The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering. There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device. Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well. If, indeed, there was a wheel stuck in the flangeway, it would suggest that he started across, realized a train was coming, and tried to turn around. Given the time frame of the video, it's likely he'd have been better off just "goosing" it and getting across the tracks. We've seen enough stories about motorists getting flustered at crossings to give this some credence. And there's the possibility he was fouling the tracks on purpose, sorry to say. You don't know he was suicidal.
tree68 Euclid The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering. There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device. Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well. If, indeed, there was a wheel stuck in the flangeway, it would suggest that he started across, realized a train was coming, and tried to turn around. Given the time frame of the video, it's likely he'd have been better off just "goosing" it and getting across the tracks. We've seen enough stories about motorists getting flustered at crossings to give this some credence. And there's the possibility he was fouling the tracks on purpose, sorry to say.
Euclid The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.
The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering.
There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device. Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well.
If, indeed, there was a wheel stuck in the flangeway, it would suggest that he started across, realized a train was coming, and tried to turn around. Given the time frame of the video, it's likely he'd have been better off just "goosing" it and getting across the tracks.
We've seen enough stories about motorists getting flustered at crossings to give this some credence.
And there's the possibility he was fouling the tracks on purpose, sorry to say.
You don't know he was suicidal.
Railroads continue to be one of the means of choice for suicidal individuals - how they desire the railroad to kill them differs, there are a multitude of ways.
tree68 Leo_Ames He didn't say he was. Just was suggesting it as a possibility. Exactly. Among the other things we don't know is how often this gentleman crosses these tracks with this vehicle. It could well be that he does so daily. Perhaps he was not used to seeing trains at that time. Unless there is a follow-up story, we know about all we'll ever know about the incident.
Leo_Ames He didn't say he was. Just was suggesting it as a possibility.
He didn't say he was. Just was suggesting it as a possibility.
Exactly.
Among the other things we don't know is how often this gentleman crosses these tracks with this vehicle. It could well be that he does so daily. Perhaps he was not used to seeing trains at that time.
Unless there is a follow-up story, we know about all we'll ever know about the incident.
Since you don't really know details, why did you suggest suicidal intent rather than any of the other more likely reasons?
EuclidNobody would want 6" wide wheels on their bicycle.
From MBTR.COM
tree68 Euclid The wheels need to be like wide cylinders with a very shallow radial thickness. That way, they could not drop into into the flangeways no matter how they were pivoted for steering. There remains a need to balance such a need with the operational/design needs of the device. Most things that are designed to everything do nothing very well.
Yes, the solution has to be simple. Sometimes a solution can lead to another problem. Bicycles get stuck in grade crossing flangeways sometimes. But people using wheel chairs have special condtions that do not apply as much to bicyclists. Wheel chairs may be equipped with special wheels that can't get stuck in flangeways, but then those wheels may be deemed too bulky and disruptive even for slow moving wheel chairs. Nobody would want 6" wide wheels on their bicycle. So they may not want them on their wheel chair.
Sombody may have mentioned this earlier, but here is an approach to provide shallow flangeways. This seems like a credible approach to the mobility device hangup problem, but it also is promoted as self-cleaning flangeway that could benefit the rail traffic as well.
This link should be able open large views of patent illustrations of the cross section of these elestomeric fillers that can be simply pressed into place without taking apart the crossing. It seems like a well engineered product that would be a realistic approach to serving a real need. It is called a "Shallow Flangeway" and made by Polycorp.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20120000987
zugmann Or you know, not have the crossing apparatus bolted in the middle of the sidewalk?
Or you know, not have the crossing apparatus bolted in the middle of the sidewalk?
Really. The poor guy had to get around that by going into the roadway, which, he correctly ascertained, was not a great place to be. But then in turning to get out of the street, it made the front wheels be paralell to the rails, hence enabling one to get stuck in the flangeway.
York1The other part of the story remains that this policewoman did an amazing rescue of this man. She was very close to losing her life trying to save his.
Amen, Brother. Amen. IMHO, I bet she wasn't even thinking about the risk; rather she was focused on saving the citizen in peril. Good on her!
Flintlock76 https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/13/44/17/19809262/3/920x920.jpg From Mike. It was that close.
https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/13/44/17/19809262/3/920x920.jpg
From Mike. It was that close.
The guy's wristwatch corresponds to the time stamp on the photo
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