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Rookie Railfan Questions 2.0

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Posted by jeffhergert on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:40 PM

Yes, the cab light requirement isn't in the rule book, but in one of the other numerous bulletins put out by various levels of management.

With the tinted windows it may be hard to tell if anyone is in the cab.  It would depend on how many cab lights are on.  There's no requirement for how many of the lights are on.  Some turn every interior light   Depending on model, there can be 5 to 7 lights.  one or two main lights, plus 3 to 5 reading lights.  I won't turn them all on.  I usually try to leave the one or two engineer reading lights off because I hate it when they're burned out.

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Posted by MikeInPlano on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 9:53 PM

Overmod

 

Deggesty
Quite interesting, Paul. The only warning I have read indicated that no more than two layers should loaded or unloaded before moving to the other side and, again, moving no more than two layers past leaving/adding and then moving to the other side. That is, no more than a two layer imbalance...

 

That's a practical interpretation of what Paul's warning says.  

If we were to 'literally' follow what that warning calls for, we'd need coordinated lifts from both sides of the car at once, I might add starting alternately from the ends toward the middle in a coherent pattern, so that the added weight is 'exactly' balanced side-to-side at any point.  My opinion is that this is lawyer CYA; you can't argue in court with what the 'manufacturer' or 'owner' has said about keeping the balance exact, exact, exact even if in 'practice' that's functionally ignored...

I'd note that with palleted loads the 'two-layer' weight might be greatly exceeded modularly, to the point where you well might want to alternate 'sides' even piece by piece.  Especially if the side-bearing clearance is excessive, or the truck springing compromised, or the track 'soft' or inclining to one side...

 

The suggestion to place jacks while loading or unloading is interesting. What about pneumatic jacks built into the car that can be deployed when needed.?

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 22, 2020 10:24 PM

MikeInPlano
What about pneumatic jacks built into the car that can be deployed when needed.?

I would agree that the idea is reasonable, and little more difficult to implement in practice than, say, air-activated bottom-dump doors on unit trains.

The initial difficulty I have with this is one of capital and training:to be effective the jacks would have to act well outboard of the gauge, where the contact with the roadbed might be uncertain (and the precision of spotting cars over in-ground jacking pads purpose-built for effective loading difficult to achieve).  You would still want to do balanced load and unload -- otherwise a faiure of leveling or locking would be rapidly catastrophic, possibly inescapable.  Reasonable safeguards and a recursion of onerous and boring SPAF equivalents would be designed, of course ... but would they still be maintained and observed many years later, especially when complacency or deferred maintenance has set in... I'm reminded of the hitch failure on Iron Highway, which was pointed out to me to be highly anomalous BUT it was dangerous in significant ways when it happened.

I'd be more concerned with parts of one of the jack mechanisms accidentally deploying or breaking.  There are no good places for a jacking leg to go at 50mph.  How would you keep them out of mischief in some other kind of high-momentum accident?  More to the point, what does the crew do when one fails inspection or testing enroute?

I'd think about using fixed stabilizing jacks at spottable positions, raising to engage the underframe of the car a bit like the jacking in the original CargoSpeed intermodal approach.  There is no reason why this couldn't be worked with 'power air' in some way if shore power of a safe kind proved difficult or fallible.  Then you have the fun of developing a safe procedure with interlocks and safeguards against trouble ... the problem being again that the consequences of a safety failure or oversight could be almost promptly implacable.

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:55 PM

jeffhergert
Yes, the cab light requirement isn't in the rule book, but in one of the other numerous bulletins put out by various levels of management.

With the tinted windows it may be hard to tell if anyone is in the cab.  It would depend on how many cab lights are on.  There's no requirement for how many of the lights are on.  Some turn every interior light   Depending on model, there can be 5 to 7 lights.  one or two main lights, plus 3 to 5 reading lights.  I won't turn them all on.  I usually try to leave the one or two engineer reading lights off because I hate it when they're burned out.

Jeff  

If a employee would be riding in a trailing locomotive - they would keep the cab lights off in order to protect their eyes acclimation to night vision - exposure to light lengthens the time required for one's eyes to adjust to the light level in the dark.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Thursday, July 23, 2020 5:13 PM

BaltACD

 

 
jeffhergert
Yes, the cab light requirement isn't in the rule book, but in one of the other numerous bulletins put out by various levels of management.

With the tinted windows it may be hard to tell if anyone is in the cab.  It would depend on how many cab lights are on.  There's no requirement for how many of the lights are on.  Some turn every interior light   Depending on model, there can be 5 to 7 lights.  one or two main lights, plus 3 to 5 reading lights.  I won't turn them all on.  I usually try to leave the one or two engineer reading lights off because I hate it when they're burned out.

Jeff  

 

If a employee would be riding in a trailing locomotive - they would keep the cab lights off in order to protect their eyes acclimation to night vision - exposure to light lengthens the time required for one's eyes to adjust to the light level in the dark.

 

While some areas still have a brakeman on some trains, we usually don't.  About the only ones riding trailing units are dead heads.  Some may have them off if they want to sleep.  Others may want to read and have a light on.  I've done both when dead heading.

A lot of crewmembers in the lead cab will leave the reading light on at night.  Especially those that are dimmable.  (Some of them require manual methods to reduce the amount of light.)  I've done that too.  Especially when some of the gage lights are burned out.

Jeff  

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Posted by SD70Dude on Thursday, July 23, 2020 11:59 PM

jeffhergert
BaltACD
jeffhergert
Yes, the cab light requirement isn't in the rule book, but in one of the other numerous bulletins put out by various levels of management.

With the tinted windows it may be hard to tell if anyone is in the cab.  It would depend on how many cab lights are on.  There's no requirement for how many of the lights are on.  Some turn every interior light   Depending on model, there can be 5 to 7 lights.  one or two main lights, plus 3 to 5 reading lights.  I won't turn them all on.  I usually try to leave the one or two engineer reading lights off because I hate it when they're burned out.

Jeff  

If a employee would be riding in a trailing locomotive - they would keep the cab lights off in order to protect their eyes acclimation to night vision - exposure to light lengthens the time required for one's eyes to adjust to the light level in the dark.

While some areas still have a brakeman on some trains, we usually don't.  About the only ones riding trailing units are dead heads.  Some may have them off if they want to sleep.  Others may want to read and have a light on.  I've done both when dead heading.

A lot of crewmembers in the lead cab will leave the reading light on at night.  Especially those that are dimmable.  (Some of them require manual methods to reduce the amount of light.)  I've done that too.  Especially when some of the gage lights are burned out.

Jeff  

CN is kind enough to give us red B/O tags that are the perfect size for dimming the desk lights.  But sometimes you have to get creative with the paper towels and band-aids from the crewpaks (if you both forgot your duct tape at home).

The crewpak materials are also pretty good at silencing annoying rattles when stuffed strategically into cracks.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:08 AM
I'm seeing a lot more refer containers. How would a train crew know, if at all, that one went down? I've never heard of a crew talk about a downed refer over the radio....

Regards - Steve

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Posted by traisessive1 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:20 AM

steve-in-kville
I'm seeing a lot more refer containers. How would a train crew know, if at all, that one went down? I've never heard of a crew talk about a downed refer over the radio....
 

 
They don't. They are remotely monitored. It's not a crew's responsibility to fix a broken reefer either. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 4:37 AM

I seem to remember that in the 'old days' before cellular radio or satellite monitoring was any more than science fiction, crews would check that reefers were running as they walked a consist or observed one passing.  If I remember correctly there were employees -- I'd think almost certainly carmen -- who would periodically top up the diesel fuel in cars taking "too long" to get where they were going; I'd expect this to be billed just about as periodic 're-icing' of passive reefers would be.  Seems to me that Trains has at least one story about what happened if reefer units failed, ran out of Freon, or caught fire while in service, but I don't remember any actual details.

I am amused that some of the Cryo-Trans cars have a full platform with safety railings and harness points to work on their cooling equipment -- this is laudable but not at all inexpensive...

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 7:42 PM

steve-in-kville
I'm seeing a lot more refer containers. How would a train crew know, if at all, that one went down? I've never heard of a crew talk about a downed refer over the radio....

A CSX train passing through Defiance, OH last week was briefly delayed while the fire department doused the refrigeration unit on such a container.  I saw it a little later as it passed through Deshler with a melted housing...

I don't know how the fire was reported - probably someone lineside saw it and called it in.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:16 PM

tree68
 
steve-in-kville
I'm seeing a lot more refer containers. How would a train crew know, if at all, that one went down? I've never heard of a crew talk about a downed refer over the radio.... 

A CSX train passing through Defiance, OH last week was briefly delayed while the fire department doused the refrigeration unit on such a container.  I saw it a little later as it passed through Deshler with a melted housing...

I don't know how the fire was reported - probably someone lineside saw it and called it in.

Most likely a passing train saw it and notified both the train with the fire and the Train Dispatcher - the Train Dispatcher got in contact with both the train with the fire and the PSCC (CSX Police Center) and came to an agreed point to stop for a local Fire Department to respond and extinguish the fire.  Just like in racing, stopping where there is no fire fighting equipment doesn't produce a 'happy' outcome.

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Posted by tree68 on Wednesday, July 29, 2020 8:22 PM

BaltACD
Most likely a passing train saw it and notified both the train with the fire and the Train Dispatcher - the Train Dispatcher got in contact with both the train with the fire and the PSCC (CSX Police Center) and came to an agreed point to stop for a local Fire Department to respond and extinguish the fire.  Just like in racing, stopping where there is no fire fighting equipment doesn't produce a 'happy' outcome.

Can't disagree.  It's a busy two-track line.  All of the above are possible.  

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Monday, August 3, 2020 7:53 AM
I saw a hi-rail truck on the tracks early Sunday morning. We had a series of thunderstorms move through the area overnight, so I figured something must have taken a lightning strike. What kind of damage can lightning do to the tracks and its signals? Who figures out something is wrong? The train crews? Dispatchers?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by Overmod on Monday, August 3, 2020 8:56 AM

Lots of problems, not just limited to direct strikes on wires, poles, or cabinets.  Locomotives are both electrically and 'medically' risky as they are substantially grounded to earth potential, as cars with rubber tires are not, and even an S-520 cab may not act as a full Faraday cage to divert current 'around' people inside.

A strike to ground or ballast can induce substantial earth current there, which can derange equipment or cause it to drop to weird settings.  

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, August 3, 2020 9:05 AM

MOW runs "storm patrols" after nasty storms.  Looking for fallen trees, washouts, etc. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 3, 2020 9:10 AM

steve-in-kville
I saw a hi-rail truck on the tracks early Sunday morning. We had a series of thunderstorms move through the area overnight, so I figured something must have taken a lightning strike. What kind of damage can lightning do to the tracks and its signals? Who figures out something is wrong? The train crews? Dispatchers?

Think hundreds of thousands if not millions of volts in a lightning strike vs. electronic equipment that operates on millivolts.  The potential for dmage is endless.

Everyone will discover what is wrong as soon as find something that should be working isn't.  Each emplyee/craft have their own set of things they would expect to be working.

Hi-railing on a Sunday morning could be for multiple causes which includes the Roadmaster's periodically required inspection of his territory (Sunday's are favored as there is normally less train traffic as well as MofW work projects are normally laid in on the weekends).  Hi-railing could also taking place account of anomaly's having been reported by train crews operating through the area.

If lightning had damaged the signal system you most likely would have seen trains moving over the tracks at Restricted Speed as they would have to have been given the Train Dispatcher's permission to pass Stop Signals that would be displayed at the Control Points.

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Monday, August 3, 2020 9:16 AM
Just before I saw MOW truck, a container train went through on the other track at a reduced speed, which I thought odd. I heard the dispatcher giving track warrants out to someone before I got to the tracks, but couldn't hear the other party.

Regards - Steve

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Posted by zugmann on Monday, August 3, 2020 9:19 AM

BaltACD
Hi-railing on a Sunday morning could be for multiple causes which includes the Roadmaster's periodically required inspection of his territory (Sunday's are favored as there is normally less train traffic as well as MofW work projects are normally laid in on the weekends).  Hi-railing could also taking place account of anomaly's having been reported by train crews operating through the area.

Where I worked - most of the MOW guys wouldn't come out on the weekends unless something happened.  They had their normal patrol schedules and were accomadated.  Maintainers would sometimes show up on saturday morning for their switch tests - that way they could bang out all the switches on a line in like an hour. 

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Monday, August 3, 2020 9:25 AM
From my experience, on our NS line, Sunday traffic is weird and Monday's are slow. I hear a lot of MOW stuff on a Monday. Then usually Tuesday mornings, not long after midnight, the tracks will be on fire, trains as close to 10 minutes apart both directions.

Regards - Steve

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 5:00 AM
On a two-track mainline, can a train be switched over at normal speed? Or must they slow down? I've seen videos of them slowing down until the lead loco's are across, the speeding up. My hunting spot is about two miles from a switch and I have never seen them slow down for it, at least not that I could notice.

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Posted by adkrr64 on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 5:07 AM

steve-in-kville
On a two-track mainline, can a train be switched over at normal speed? Or must they slow down? I've seen videos of them slowing down until the lead loco's are across, the speeding up. My hunting spot is about two miles from a switch and I have never seen them slow down for it, at least not that I could notice.

Depends entirely on the design/ dimensions of the crossover. High speed crossovers do exist but are more expensive to build and maintain. For a freight only line, slowing down for a crossover is a lot less expensive in the long run.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Tuesday, August 11, 2020 10:52 PM

steve-in-kville
On a two-track mainline, can a train be switched over at normal speed? Or must they slow down? I've seen videos of them slowing down until the lead loco's are across, the speeding up. My hunting spot is about two miles from a switch and I have never seen them slow down for it, at least not that I could notice.
 

On the lines I work, for awhile it seemed 30 mph crossovers were in vogue.  Then 40 mph crossovers was the go to when possible.  Now it's 50 mph crossovers.  And there are places where they have 60 mph crossovers.

If they are slowing down and then speeding up after going through the switch, it's a head end only restriction.  I know of some switches that were like that if you were going through the trailing point direction.  Most crossovers (and switches) require the entire movement to pass through before picking up speed.

Jeff 

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Monday, August 17, 2020 4:10 AM
Saw my first high hood yesterday, third locomotive back on a long mixed train. Had a mid-train DPU which I haven't seen in a while. I suspect the high hood wasn't online but could be wrong.

Regards - Steve

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, August 17, 2020 7:48 PM

jeffhergert

 

 
steve-in-kville
On a two-track mainline, can a train be switched over at normal speed? Or must they slow down? I've seen videos of them slowing down until the lead loco's are across, the speeding up. My hunting spot is about two miles from a switch and I have never seen them slow down for it, at least not that I could notice.
 

 

 

On the lines I work, for awhile it seemed 30 mph crossovers were in vogue.  Then 40 mph crossovers was the go to when possible.  Now it's 50 mph crossovers.  And there are places where they have 60 mph crossovers.

If they are slowing down and then speeding up after going through the switch, it's a head end only restriction.  I know of some switches that were like that if you were going through the trailing point direction.  Most crossovers (and switches) require the entire movement to pass through before picking up speed.

Jeff 

 

The joys of movable point (swing nose) high number frogs, sampson point and undercut stock rails...Less of a threat to the wearable parts and no flangeway gap in the frog. 

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by BaltACD on Monday, August 17, 2020 10:34 PM

mudchicken
 
jeffhergert 
steve-in-kville
On a two-track mainline, can a train be switched over at normal speed? Or must they slow down? I've seen videos of them slowing down until the lead loco's are across, the speeding up. My hunting spot is about two miles from a switch and I have never seen them slow down for it, at least not that I could notice. 

On the lines I work, for awhile it seemed 30 mph crossovers were in vogue.  Then 40 mph crossovers was the go to when possible.  Now it's 50 mph crossovers.  And there are places where they have 60 mph crossovers.

If they are slowing down and then speeding up after going through the switch, it's a head end only restriction.  I know of some switches that were like that if you were going through the trailing point direction.  Most crossovers (and switches) require the entire movement to pass through before picking up speed.

Jeff  

The joys of movable point (swing nose) high number frogs, sampson point and undercut stock rails...Less of a threat to the wearable parts and no flangeway gap in the frog.  

http://www.railway-technical.com/infrastructure/

200 KPH switch - 8 switch machines to operate the points; 3 switch machines to operate the frog.

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Posted by CShaveRR on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 7:55 PM

Looks like the sharp curves beyond the frog will provide a rougher ride than the switch itself.

Carl

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, August 18, 2020 8:32 PM

CShaveRR
Looks like the sharp curves beyond the frog will provide a rougher ride than the switch itself.

I think I read that the switch points were 180 feet long or possibly longer.  Obviously, not a US installation.

CSX during my Dispatching career raised the speeds on various crossovers on my territories - when you put in 45-50 MPH crossovers - they are LONG between one end and the other.  Whenever it became necessary because of signal issues to have trains operate past Stop signals by securing the switches in their route in HAND position and then operating at restricted speed - it seemed like it took 'forever' for Conductor to exit the locomotive and get BOTH ends of the crossover secured for movement.  A lot of walking being done.

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Posted by steve-in-kville on Thursday, August 20, 2020 10:51 AM
Do railroad police have vehicles that are hi-railed?

Regards - Steve

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Posted by BaltACD on Thursday, August 20, 2020 11:23 AM

steve-in-kville
Do railroad police have vehicles that are hi-railed?

They may on some properties.  Not on CSX.  Hi-rail vehicles are most all assigned within the various MofW crafts.

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Posted by mudchicken on Thursday, August 20, 2020 3:48 PM

Most likely scenario would be a special agent out with a trainmaster, RFE or Supt. in the Superintendent's hi-rail. (then again, certain operating supervisors were a threat to the long term servicability of the hi-rail, especially shunts)

I'm not sure I've ever seen a special agent in a rules class FWIW. I've had special agents in hi-rails with me, most notably during the LA King riots on the old ATSF Harbor District.

Hi-rail as a pursuit vehicle?LaughLaughLaugh

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west

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