My original thread was getting too long...
What criteria must be met for a DPU to be placed mid-train? I've been seeing this more and more on both unit trains and mixed trains.
Also, I am seeing many empty center-posters at the beginning, following by loaded cars. Isn't this a risk to derail?
Thanks in advance.
Regards - Steve
I can't answer either question. But as for the empty flats followed by loads, I wonder if this practice is okay on stretches of railroad without any significantly tight surves. ??
NS encountered that very stringlining problem - twice, I believe - at Horse Shoe Curve.
Trains did an article on it recently.
Pending something more authoritative, I'm with LO - at least part of the consideration would be the profile.
Amongst the various considerations, too, has to do with pre-blocking. Arranging a train so that blocks can be dropped at various points (and picked up, for that matter) certainly complicates the issue, at that means that loads and empties necessarily are scattered throughout the train.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68NS encountered that very stringlining problem - twice, I believe - at Horse Shoe Curve. Trains did an article on it recently. Pending something more authoritative, I'm with LO - at least part of the consideration would be the profile. Amongst the various considerations, too, has to do with pre-blocking. Arranging a train so that blocks can be dropped at various points (and picked up, for that matter) certainly complicates the issue, at that means that loads and empties necessarily are scattered throughout the train.
The problem that affects center beam and other LIGHT, LONG, EMPTY cars is TRAILING TONNAGE on grades with curvature.
Baltimore Division CSX Timetable Empty Car Placement Instructions for Trains Empty cars 80 feet and longer must be placed in the train in such a location that the trailing tonnage behind these empty cars does not exceed the amount listed below. In territory where helper locomotives are used on the rear of the train, their tonnage rating should be subtracted to the trailing tonnage listed below when determining the location for the restricted car(s): Between Direction Tonnage Hyndman & Sand PatchWestward 4,750 Connellsville & SandPatchEastward 8,500 Connellsville & New CastleEastward & Westward13,300
Empty Car Placement Instructions for Trains
Empty cars 80 feet and longer must be placed in the train in such a location that the trailing tonnage behind these empty cars does not exceed the amount listed below. In territory where helper locomotives are used on the rear of the train, their tonnage rating should be subtracted to the trailing tonnage listed below when determining the location for the restricted car(s):
Between Direction Tonnage
Hyndman & Sand PatchWestward 4,750
Connellsville & SandPatchEastward 8,500
Connellsville & New CastleEastward & Westward13,300
The territory involving Sand Patch are mountain grades. The Connellsville-New Castle territory has very little gradient, however their is a high degree of curvature account following rivers.
Building multi-block trains can create problems in complying with this and other car placement restrictions that the carriers have in effect.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
The Centerbeam flat cars are notoriously top-heavy--they don't have thick underframes down below floor level. I nearly had a passed-drawbar incident while working that would have fipped about a half-dozen of them on the yard lead...fortunately, I could grab the loads in the retarder, let the centerbeams right themselves and roll, then it could be fixed the right way with a locomotive making the joints.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
CShaveRR The Centerbeam flat cars are notoriously top-heavy--they don't have thick underframes down below floor level. I nearly had a passed-drawbar incident while working that would have fipped about a half-dozen of them on the yard lead...fortunately, I could grab the loads in the retarder, let the centerbeams right themselves and roll, then it could be fixed the right way with a locomotive making the joints.
Johnny
Deggesty CShaveRR The Centerbeam flat cars are notoriously top-heavy--they don't have thick underframes down below floor level. I nearly had a passed-drawbar incident while working that would have fipped about a half-dozen of them on the yard lead...fortunately, I could grab the loads in the retarder, let the centerbeams right themselves and roll, then it could be fixed the right way with a locomotive making the joints. I have not seen many centerbram cars up slose, but I am sure that if you examine one carefully, you will see instructions for loading and unloading--you do not fill one side and then fill the other; you balance the overall load as much as is possible--some on one side, as much on the other side plus as much, back to the first side and add more, back to the second side.... Unloading is done in reverse--some off, change sides....
I have not seen many centerbram cars up slose, but I am sure that if you examine one carefully, you will see instructions for loading and unloading--you do not fill one side and then fill the other; you balance the overall load as much as is possible--some on one side, as much on the other side plus as much, back to the first side and add more, back to the second side.... Unloading is done in reverse--some off, change sides....
Love the stencil of the little stick figure running from a turning over center beam on the inside of the end bulkhead. Some even have added "speed indicating" lines behind the running figure.
Jeff
I wonder how often the load/unloading instructions are ignored.
Deggesty I wonder how often the load/unloading instructions are ignored.
Probably only once by any given person/crew...
I wonder, though, if anyone has come up with the expedient of placing jacks under the corners of the cars to reduce/eliminate the tipping.
When you consider that the consignee is usually a lumber yard, I'm surprised that tipping doesn't occur more frequently. I've rarely seen lumber yards with a lot of open space on each side of the track.
tree68 Deggesty I wonder how often the load/unloading instructions are ignored. Probably only once by any given person/crew... I wonder, though, if anyone has come up with the expedient of placing jacks under the corners of the cars to reduce/eliminate the tipping.
jeffhergertLove the stencil of the little stick figure running from a turning over center beam on the inside of the end bulkhead. Some even have added "speed indicating" lines behind the running figure. Jeff
- PDN.
jeffhergertLove the stencil of the little stick figure running from a turning over center beam on the inside of the end bulkhead. Some even have added "speed indicating" lines behind the running figure.
He's related to the guy that always has the plug door falling on his head.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmannHe's related to the guy that always has the plug door falling on his head.
I like their far more attractive second cousin much more:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wObd5GI-qGk
Overmod Not sure I get the reason for this link... zugmann He's related to the guy that always has the plug door falling on his head. I like their far more attractive second cousin much more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wObd5GI-qGk
zugmann He's related to the guy that always has the plug door falling on his head.
MikeInPlanoNot sure I get the reason for this link...
It's humor. If the flat, outline plug-door guy is related to the flat, outline guy running away from tipover, why can't they also be related to the flat, outline mudflap girl?
Note I didn't bring up their urban relatives from Haring and Harald.
Add the Volkswagen Fahrvergnügen ( promo stick-guy) and the Nine-Inch Nails logo w...and then
Overmod MikeInPlano Not sure I get the reason for this link... It's humor. If the flat, outline plug-door guy is related to the flat, outline guy running away from tipover, why can't they also be related to the flat, outline mudflap girl? Note I didn't bring up their urban relatives from Haring and Harald.
MikeInPlano Not sure I get the reason for this link...
Link to one of the center beam warnings (3rd photo):
http://www.trainweb.org/mccloudrails/Equipment/Centerbeams.html
I did find some others - one had some profane graffiti added - but I can't locate them now.
Quite interesting, Paul. The only warning I have read indicated that no more than two layers should loaded or unloaded before moving to the other side and, again, moving no more than two layers past leaving/adding and then moving to the other side. That is, no more than a two layer imbalance..
DeggestyQuite interesting, Paul. The only warning I have read indicated that no more than two layers should loaded or unloaded before moving to the other side and, again, moving no more than two layers past leaving/adding and then moving to the other side. That is, no more than a two layer imbalance...
That's a practical interpretation of what Paul's warning says.
If we were to 'literally' follow what that warning calls for, we'd need coordinated lifts from both sides of the car at once, I might add starting alternately from the ends toward the middle in a coherent pattern, so that the added weight is 'exactly' balanced side-to-side at any point. My opinion is that this is lawyer CYA; you can't argue in court with what the 'manufacturer' or 'owner' has said about keeping the balance exact, exact, exact even if in 'practice' that's functionally ignored...
I'd note that with palleted loads the 'two-layer' weight might be greatly exceeded modularly, to the point where you well might want to alternate 'sides' even piece by piece. Especially if the side-bearing clearance is excessive, or the truck springing compromised, or the track 'soft' or inclining to one side...
I'm pretty sure I've mentioned seeing, years ago, lumber being unloaded from a boxcar, board by board, running down a roller tray into the lumber shed... Talk about manpower intensive.
Re: Pictograms. There are now two handicapped pictograms in circulation. The one with the individual seated upright is still the officially recognized version. The second depicts a more active individual. Only two states have made that one official. The international version is still the first version.
More active? My first thought was that he was falling out of the wheelchair. Come to think of it, that is more active than sitting.
When I first saw that wheelchair figure on highway signs ( the original one), I thought it indicated restrooms.
_____________
"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
That second one is for 'Olympic/Paralympic wheelchair race route crossing'.
Before the advent of the ADA, I think the 'usual' meaning of the sign would have been to indicate wheelchair-accessible restrooms. Not too much else was provided free then...
tree68I'm pretty sure I've mentioned seeing, years ago, lumber being unloaded from a boxcar, board by board, running down a roller tray into the lumber shed...
steve-in-kvilleI had seen a hi-rail maintenance truck on the main line yesterday. But for some reason it did not trigger the block lights or the crossbucks? Any idea why?
The wheels are insulated.
Hi-Rails and other maintenance equipment may have insulated wheels, so do not activate track circuits. Even those with all-steel wheels and axles do not always reliably activate the signal system, I suspect due to some combination of the smaller number of axles and lighter weight compared to a locomotive or railcar.
Here's a incident report from a crash involving a train and a hi-rail. The hi-rail had proceeded outside its working limits, and the train crew was proceeding on permissive signal indications:
https://tsb.gc.ca/eng/rapports-reports/rail/2016/r16h0024/r16h0024.html
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
How Hi-Rail Pickup Trucks Work | The Daily Drive ...
SD70DudeEven those with all-steel wheels and axles do not always reliably activate the signal system, I suspect due to some combination of the smaller number of axles and lighter weight compared to a locomotive or railcar.
Since we don't run in the winter, we start out each season with instructions to approach each signalled crossing prepared to stop, account rusty rails.
Hi-railers generally stop at every crossing, and have exclusive occupancy of a block by warrant/EC1/Form D, or whatever mechanism that railroad uses. You may find hi-railers following a train, but you'll virtually never see on preceeding a train.
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