CSSHEGEWISCH When you consider that the consignee is usually a lumber yard, I'm surprised that tipping doesn't occur more frequently. I've rarely seen lumber yards with a lot of open space on each side of the track.
When you consider that the consignee is usually a lumber yard, I'm surprised that tipping doesn't occur more frequently. I've rarely seen lumber yards with a lot of open space on each side of the track.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
The gates are supposed to be activated 15-20 seconds before the train arrives at the crossing. How far out the train is for that to happen is dependent on track speed.
For hard-wired crossings, that's where the gap will be. The W sign may not be at the same point for high-speed crossings, as the horn is only to be sounded at a quarter mile from the crossing in those cases.
Predictive circuits use doppler via the rails to determine the approach speed and activate the lights and gates at the appropriate distance/time. In this case, the W sign will again be set based on maximum track speed.
In either case, it's up to the engineer to ensure proper horn warning.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
It is not always a matter of a “sensor” some distance from the crossing.
If it were just a sensor at some distance a fast train would arrive that the crossing sooner than a slow one. Motorists don’t really know how fast the train is moving and so they would be frustrated with gates that drop too long before a skow train gets there or might get killed if the gates didn’t drop soon enough before a fast train got there.
The crossing lights/gates are controlled by a circuit in the little bungalow near the crossing. It is measuring the current flow between the rails. Sometimes there will be a “shunt” across the rails at some distance from the crossing and it can be at various distances from the crossing, depending on what other sensor circuits are in the vicinity; other crossings, crossovers, switches to spurs and other tracks, diamonds (crossings with other RRs), etc. The shunt might be up to or beyond a mile away, or there may be no shunt specific for that circuit.
The circuitry is measuring the current flow from one rail to the other. This current depends on the resistive value of the rails, the shunt (if present) and the leakage of current through the ground, which will vary with humidity and other factors of nature. It also varies as to any trains in the area and how many axles it has shorting out the rails, and how dirty (leaves, mud, rust, etc.) the rails and or wheels are.
What triggers the circuit to turn on the lights and lower the gates is how fast that current increases as a train approaches. The faster the train the faster the current goes up and the sooner the gates will come down. When the current flow returns to the previous state the gates are raised and the lights turned off. Or if the current stops changing (the trains stops before reaching the crossing) the same thing can happen. But, it can also sense when the train is in the crossing so that it will not release the gates and shut off the lights if the train stops but is still blocking the crossing.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Semper VaporoWhat triggers the circuit to turn on the lights and lower the gates is how fast that current increases as a train approaches. The faster the train the faster the current goes up and the sooner the gates will come down. When the current flow returns to the previous state the gates are raised and the lights turned off. Or if the current stops changing (the trains stops before reaching the crossing) the same thing can happen. But, it can also sense when the train is in the crossing so that it will not release the gates and shut off the lights if the train stops but is still blocking the crossing.
That describes the "predictive" circuits.
With a fixed circuit, it's a matter of whether a train is shunting the circuit. A train standing still on the "approach" circuit will cause the gates to stay down.
The gates will only rise if the activation is over-ridden (a button, usually in a locked box on the signal shelter) or it the circuit is jumpered out, OR, the train goes through the logic of the crossing properly. If that's the case, the gates will rise once the train clears the island circuit (the crossing itself).
Good References:
Introduction to Railroad Signaling and Grade Crossing Operations
http://shrp2.transportation.org/Documents/Renewal/Webinar-Rail-Signaling%20and%20Grade%20Crossings%2010.18.18.pdf
There was a great site with a lot of info that I cannot find ..will keep looking
steve-in-kvilleHere's another: How close to the W sign are the sensors to drop the crossbucks?
Most of our whistle posts are about 1200 ft from the crossing. There are a few leftover from when they ran passenger trains 90mph. The circuits are a lot farther out then that.
We have a rule, as I suppose others do too, that when starting movement within 3000 ft of a crossing speed must not be increased over 5 mph until it's seen the crossing signals have activated and gates (if equipped) are fully lowered.
Jeff
Regards - Steve
steve-in-kvilleWhat causes flat spots on car wheels? Did the brakes malfunction at some point and was discovered too late?
When you are operating 10K - 15K foot long trains you are relying on millions of parts always operating as intended. For a variety of reasons air brake valves can have failure conditions which don't permit the brakes to release on some specific car in the length of the train. Train sizes being what they are it is impossible for the crew on the head end to visually 'inspect' the condition of their train on the move. Stuck brakes can slide wheels for miles and miles - if the car with stuck brakes is loaded, it will develop bigger flat spots than will a empty car that slides its wheels for the same distance.
Train handling technique that is currently being taught to engineers encourages the use of the extended range Dynamic Braking abilities of modern locomotives for most braking situations.
To combat the flat wheel situation, many of the Class 1 carriers have implemented a system of Wheel Impact Load Detectors (WILD) - these detectors measure the impact load of each wheel in a train as it passes over the detector - on CSX they established 4 grades of detection - the first grade was a round wheel with no impacts noted; the second grade noted a minor level of impact and it gets noted on the car's history in the Car & Train data base; the thrid grade required that the crew operating the train be notified to drop their train's maximum operating speed to 30 MPH and continue on to destination at that maximum speed; the fourth grade required that the train be contacted and instructed to stop immediately and inspect the car(s) and if the cars is deemed safe to move, set the car out of the train at the first opportunity; if the crew deems the car unsafe to move, car department personnel are dispatched and will govern how the car is handled from that point forward.
Other carriers may have other procedures.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There is that.
Another major contributor is moving a car without releasing the handbrake. That can occur in a variety of ways - customers dragging the car around, crews missing a brake when releasing a number of them, for two.
I have encountered situations where the handbrake was released, but not fully. The shoe is still in contact with the wheel, and as friction heats things up, the brake starts to grab, resulting in the wheel not turning and a flat spot.
It doesn't take a huge flat spot to stop a wheel from turning at low speeds. It then slides, which exascerbates the problem. I've watched it happen.
BaltACDTo combat the flat wheel situation, many of the Class 1 carriers have implemented a system of Wheel Impact Load Detectors (WILD)
This is one of those "one would think so" questions, but is it common practice to "ping" the car ID when a level 2,3 or 4 impact is detected by the WILD and bundle that information to make the report? I ask because so many times in my engineering career and in general I have discovered that "think" apparently didn't find its way into the process.
ChuckCobleigh BaltACD To combat the flat wheel situation, many of the Class 1 carriers have implemented a system of Wheel Impact Load Detectors (WILD) This is one of those "one would think so" questions, but is it common practice to "ping" the car ID when a level 2,3 or 4 impact is detected by the WILD and bundle that information to make the report? I ask because so many times in my engineering career and in general I have discovered that "think" apparently didn't find its way into the process.
BaltACD To combat the flat wheel situation, many of the Class 1 carriers have implemented a system of Wheel Impact Load Detectors (WILD)
As implemented by CSX - the 2nd degree 'Ping' is attached to the car's history. the 3rd and 4th level pings go directly to a office in the Mechanical Dept. headquarters in Jacksonville that the issue an alert in CADS that Train Dispatchers and Chief Train Dispatchers must acknowledge - leaving record that they were notified. They are 'on the hook' if the train doesn't get notified.
I am not aware of what if any 'managerial reports' have been developed for those in the Mechanical Department to further manage the flat wheel issues - systemwide. I am certain that the accumulated WILD data enters into a number of the Car Department operational directives.
The rule of thumb I've heard for flat wheels is that if you can hear it for seven cars, it needs attention...
tree68 . . . You may find hi-railers following a train, but you'll virtually never see on preceeding a train.
- PDN.
Paul_D_North_Jr tree68 . . . You may find hi-railers following a train, but you'll virtually never see on preceeding a train. The exception that proves the rule: I understand Western Pacific ran hi-railers or motorcars in advance of trains in the Feather River canyon (UP still might?). The reason was to detect rockfalls and avalanches or slide-outs under the track far enough in advance for the train to stop before getting there. - PDN.
The exception that proves the rule: I understand Western Pacific ran hi-railers or motorcars in advance of trains in the Feather River canyon (UP still might?). The reason was to detect rockfalls and avalanches or slide-outs under the track far enough in advance for the train to stop before getting there.
While the hi-railer may precede the train - the bigger question rules wise - does the hi-railer and the train have authority in the same track segment at the same time?
Under the circumstance you describe, it would be reasonable (and legal) for the train to get authority and depart A after the hi-railer operated from A to B and released the track segment between A and B. Hi-railer continues to C and when he releases the B to C track segment then the train can be give authority for the B to C segment, etc. etc. etc.
One circumstance, under CSX Rules, where at train can operate into a unreleased track car authority - All CSX track car authorities have a expiration time - IF and it is a big IF, the holder of the track car authority HAS NOT reported clear by the expiration time AND CANNOT be raised using any and all forms of communication, a train can be given authority to operate within the limits of that Track Car Authority at Restricted Speed looking out for the holder of the Track Car Authority. This step will only be undertaken after much discussion among the Dispatcher, the Chief Dispatcher and any other Division Officials that are in the chain of command.
This picture could be a cause that the hi-railer was not able to communicate
BaltACDWhile the hi-railer may precede the train - the bigger question rules wise - does the hi-railer and the train have authority in the same track segment at the same time?
I recall seeing a series of pictures in one of the railfan magazines of a speeder doing an inspection run, then scurrying to clear before the scheduled train came through. I suspect it was under something like T&TO operation, but if memory serves, it was on WP.
tree68 BaltACD While the hi-railer may precede the train - the bigger question rules wise - does the hi-railer and the train have authority in the same track segment at the same time? I recall seeing a series of pictures in one of the railfan magazines of a speeder doing an inspection run, then scurrying to clear before the scheduled train came through. I suspect it was under something like T&TO operation, but if memory serves, it was on WP.
BaltACD While the hi-railer may precede the train - the bigger question rules wise - does the hi-railer and the train have authority in the same track segment at the same time?
Most Class 1's up until the late 80's used the TT&TO method of operation for trains and Track Car Line Ups for MofW equipment. In these forms of operation, MofW equipment did not have 'authority' they had to operate and 'protect against' trains as indicated on the Track Car Line Up.
Subsequently in the late 80's & early 90's, the Class 1's eliminated the TT&TO method of operation as well as Track Car Line Ups. From the change onward, track cars had Authority to occupy specific trackage and no longer had to protect against trains when occupying that trackage within the time limits of the authority.
I used to watch the railcams at Chama and often I'd see a speeder leave just before the steam train would head the same direction. I figured it was an inspector checking the track condition ahead of the passenger train.
Semper VaporoI used to atch the railcams at Chama and often I'd see a speeder leave just before the steam train would head the same direction. I figured it was an inspector checking the track condition ahead of the passenger train.
They may not be operating under the same rule considerations that the Class 1's are, or they may have TTSI that define and authorize specific inspections and the requirements that apply in making those inspections.
rdamonGood References: Introduction to Railroad Signaling and Grade Crossing Operations http://shrp2.transportation.org/Documents/Renewal/Webinar-Rail-Signaling%20and%20Grade%20Crossings%2010.18.18.pdf There was a great site with a lot of info that I cannot find ..will keep looking
The grade portion starts on slide 45 of 78 (page 41).
Good presentation there. Thanks for sharing.
Western Pacific also had an arrangement where hi-rail vehicles would precede all trains through the Feather River Canyon to warn of slides and similar occurences.
CSSHEGEWISCH Western Pacific also had an arrangement where hi-rail vehicles would precede all trains through the Feather River Canyon to warn of slides and similar occurences.
I suspect the article/photos to which I referred were of that very operation.
The Western Pacific used hi-rail escorts through the Feather river canyon during winter because rock slides were common. They ran 2 miles ahead of every train and anounced there milepost location over the radio as they passed each one.
chad s thomas The Western Pacific used hi-rail escorts through the Feather river canyon during winter because rock slides were common. They ran 2 miles ahead of every train and anounced there milepost location over the radio as they passed each one.
Since they originally used Ford hi-rail equipped Bronco vehicles, they were called "broncos". They still are. I read a report recently where a train was held waiting for the Broncos to clear.
I don't know if they actually escort each train, or now just patrol every so often during the critical times.
steve-in-kvilleI just got my ACTS to work... I'm a bit confused as to which industries have their spurs on the map, but others do not? We have a customer that gets serviced a few times a week and their spur is not on the dispatch page.
I have no idea what ACTS displays on their model boards - I do know what gets displayed on CSX real world CADS model boards. What gets diplayed on real world model boards are the Control Points - not every switch on a line, not the spurs off the Main Tracks to customers sidings. That is for CTC territory.
In Dark Territory, only the Main Tracks are shown, like on the CTC model boards only designated passing sidings or leads to CTC and/or other divirging Dark territory are shown.
In both forms of model boards, on CSX, the Train Identification, once entered into the system, moves in accordance with the train's operation - track segment to track segment as it is detected moving along signaled routes. Track segment to track segment in Dark territory as the Dispatcher gives out Track Warrant authority and as that authority is released by the moving trains.
In the times before CTC and/or CADS - all the information used by the Train Dispatcher to control the movement of trains on his territory was on paper Train Sheets which contain OS's as Operators report the passage of trains at their locations, hand written Train Order books and in the Train Dispatcher's mind.
Steve, what is ACTS?
ATCS pulls its data from literally the same feed the dispatchers get. The servers for railfan ATCS get their information off the air, decode it, and then display it on a model board similar to the dispatchers'.
Since the ATCS for Deshler has been unavailable for several years - once they cut over to satellite - I don't have that available any more. And the client is on my old laptop.
I would suspect that sidings not having to do with an interlocking as such - ie, industrial sidings - may not show up, even if they are tied into the track circuit.
steve-in-kvilleI meant ATCS... sorry.
No problem, that would have meant nothing to me either! But now I've looked it up. I'd love to see it, but won't make the effort to get plugged in.
Lithonia OperatorI'd love to see it, but won't make the effort to get plugged in.
And it is a bit involved, since you have to go into a receiver to pull off the signal at the appropriate place. It might be possible to use a specialty modem such as hams use for digital traffic if your ATCS is still on VHF, but you'd still need to know how to decode it.
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