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What has happened to TOFC?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Friday, May 5, 2017 7:18 AM

I would assume that swap-bodies make a certain amount of sense in Europe for domestic traffic because clearance restrictions preclude the existence of double-stacks and you don't really need twistlocks on the upper corners.  In North America, where double-stacks are quite common, swap-bodies would almost require special handling at most terminals because the lack of upper-corner twistlocks would limit how they could be loaded and where they could be placed.

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Posted by IslandMan on Thursday, May 4, 2017 3:02 PM

There is a potential sort of half-way-house between TOFC and double-stack intermodal.  

The swop-body is a demountable truck body, lighter than an ISO-standard shipping container but fitted on the bottom corners with ISO standard twistlocks.  Swop bodies can be fitted with fold-down legs so that  they can be left for loading/unloading whilst the truck goes off to do other work.  This, plus the reduction in deadweight compared to ISO-standard containers and with the ability to be carried by rail as well as road is the reason swop-bodies are used in Europe (and probably elsewhere).

Swop-bodies cannot be stacked so cannot be transported by ship.  On a double-stack container train it would be possible to carry a swop-body on top of a standard ISO container (but not of course vice-versa!).  This would be more fuel-efficient than both 'pure' double-stack with ISO-only containers and TOFC, as the dead-weight per ton of load would be less than either.  

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Posted by overall on Tuesday, April 25, 2017 12:49 PM

Well, today at 12:00 noon, at Kayne Ave Yard, I saw a northbound intermodal train with 6 UPS 53 foot trailers and two of the smaller "pups" in the consists. I guess I have to take it all back. Thanks to all that replied. As the late great Gilda Radnor used to say on Saturday Night Live,"Never mind".

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Posted by SD70M-2Dude on Friday, April 21, 2017 11:34 PM

greyhounds

That's a nice Volvo tractor all done up in CN colors.  The tri-axle container chassis indicates the photo was taken in Canada.  CNTL does have significant operations in the US as well.

CN has certainly done well for themselves on the trucking end, those things are everywhere up here, especially around intermodal yards (the "We Deliver!" slogan still emblazoned all over many containers comes to mind). 

The complete integration of trucking into the rail network sometimes leads to unusual situations, for example CN seems to haul most if not all west coast intermodal traffic for the Saskatoon and Winnipeg terminals by truck from Vancouver to Calgary, then load them onto a train (Q114) there.  I think the logic behind this is that it fills out a train that would otherwise run short, and it means that fewer intermodal trains have to work in the cramped Saskatoon yard.

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Posted by greyhounds on Friday, April 21, 2017 10:52 PM

Sunnyland
Frisco had their own trucking company too-FTC, don't know if any railroads have them today or not 

Well, here's one.

http://www.cntl.com/

That's a nice Volvo tractor all done up in CN colors.  The tri-axle container chassis indicates the photo was taken in Canada.  CNTL does have significant operations in the US as well.

Several US railroads did own trucklines.  Those that quickly come to mind are Santa Fe Trail, Rock Island Motor Freight, your Frisco Transportation Co., and a rather large PMT.  PMT was either Pacific Motor Transport or Pacific Motor Trucking, I don't remember.  It was an SP operation.  Cotton Belt also had its own trucking operations.

When motor freight was first Federally regulated in 1935 the existing trucking operations were literally frozen in place.  So if a railroad had a motor carrier up and running it got to keep what it had.  It couldn't expand, but it could stay in place.  (Economic regulation of transport was, from start to finish, a fool's errand.)  The restrictions placed on rail-truck integration greatly harmed our economy and our people.  Freezing economic development in place, as was done, and then subjecting it to a lot of dang fool rules is going to hurt.  And it did hurt.  Badly.

Today, there is no necessity for a railroad to have a seperate trucking entity.  They can just hire a trucker, owner operator or otherwise, to do the work.  No government by your leave is required.

CN has chosen to operate through CNTL.  BNSF and NS have chosen to partner with truckers such as JB Hunt to do the same thing in a different way.  It's basically six of one and a half dozen of the other.  It's the same thing done differently with basically the same result.

CN, operating mainly in Canada at the time, was mostly never subject to the inane US rules prohibiting rail-truck integration.  They've got a long, successful history doing trucking and they've extended their success with their expansions in to the US.

 

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Posted by BaltACD on Friday, April 21, 2017 6:37 PM

1987

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, April 21, 2017 2:00 PM

I watch the Chesterton cam, and the Berea,OH and Fostoria, OH cams, and lots of TOFC /COFC trains.  I also see them on the BNSF on the Coal City, IL. cam. 

I don't remember that I've ever seen them on the CN, Fond du Lac to Chicago line (former WC)  I live close to.

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Posted by Sunnyland on Friday, April 21, 2017 10:56 AM

haven't seen TOFC in years and I drive past the Frisco yards where Dad worked very often.  BNSF has mostly intramodel trains coming and going out of the yards, so that's the bulk of the business now.  Sometimes there will be tankers or even a boxcar in the mix, but not much.  Frisco had their own trucking company too-FTC, don't know if any railroads have them today or not 

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Posted by jdamelio on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:31 PM

I frequently see trailers on trains into and out of Florida on CSX and FEC.

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Posted by n012944 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:26 PM

overall

 

I never see TOFC anymore on the CSX in the Nashville area. I see plenty of double stack containers on intermodal trains but no trailers. Has CSX stopped handling this traffic? Have other railroads stopped it also? The AAR still reports on trailers moved, so there must be some moving somewhere.

 

 

Q025,Q026 and Q027 all carry TOFC through Nashville for CSX.

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Posted by traisessive1 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:24 PM

CN runs their container trains up to 16000 feet. Many are in the 11-14000 foot range. Double stacks really make it beneficial. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by traisessive1 on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:19 PM

Ulrich

TOFC is for the most part gone on Canadian railroads. CP's Expressway is the only exception that comes to mind. 

 

 
The ONR and HBR will run TOFC as well, but you are correct in saying CP's Expressway service is the only regular TOFC on the mainlines in Canada.

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by Dick Dawson on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:55 AM

89' TOFC cars were designed to carry one 45' and one 40' trailer.  After the Twin 45 modification many were able to carry two 45' trailers.  Only three of those cars are left in the TTX fleet.  But many were also modified to carry three 28' trailers as well as the two 45s.  Just over 100 of them are left.  A number of 89' flatcars were drawbar-connected and had their hitches repositioned to carry three 53' trailers as a temporary stopgap until TTAX all-purpose spine cars could enter the fleet.  Just over 100 of them are left. TOFC traffic is now carried almost entirely on TTAX and TTRX spine cars, of which there just under 7,000 cars.  But there are over 44,000 DTTX stack cars, so the relative demand for intermodal cars is obvious.  And as previously pointed out, many spine cars carry containers instead of trailers. 

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Posted by samfp1943 on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:19 PM

ATSFGuy

Do BNSF and UP still use spine cars?

 

    They still do in this neck of the woods...Looking at some right now..EB COFC/TOFC, mixed on the spine cars..53' reefers and some YRC 28' Pups and some FedEx cans...COFC stacks, in well cars (53' Domestic JBH cans).

 

 


 

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Posted by ATSFGuy on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 6:03 PM

Do BNSF and UP still use spine cars?

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Posted by DavidBriel on Tuesday, April 18, 2017 12:14 AM

I feel that part of the reason why TOFC seems to be replaced by double stack containers is partly because two 53' trailers will NOT FIT onto older 89' piggyback flatcars. The 89' TOFC cars were designed for transporting two 40' or 45' trailers NOT 53' trailers.

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Posted by samfp1943 on Monday, April 17, 2017 2:47 PM

Kielbasa
 
MP173

I am curious as to what FedX is hauling with their containers....believe the units are marked "Multimodal".

If anyone knows if this is a shift of the traditional FedEx Ground from truck to rail (which might have already occured) let me know.

 

ed

 

 

 

 

Ground, not so much, they would be marked as Ground units.  The purple and grey boxes you see are FedEx Freight shipping non time-sensitive LTL freight.  Example, LA loads a lot of eastbound rail boxes and instead of using company drivers and bogging down the system, they dray those containers from the local terminal to a West Coast ramp and ride the rails to an East Coast hub (Atlanta is a BIG one). UPS does the same thing, although you might not know it, a lot of their volume travels in EMHU boxes.

 

 

   I mentioned this on another Thread, but I am really curious abot it. Recently, I have seen several containers that were, more or less identical to adjacent containers in the same trains (ie; FedEx Multimodal markings), they were that gray color with ribbed metal. Those 'other cans' wore a rectangular decal (maybe about 3' by 1' to 2'(?). They were white letters with that green shade that is on the FedEx ground trailer logos) lettered for COFC. Any ideas? I sort of thought that FedEx might be opening up some of their T/L business to Container loading for rail transport ?  Whistling

 

 


 

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Posted by Kielbasa on Monday, April 17, 2017 2:02 PM

MP173

I am curious as to what FedX is hauling with their containers....believe the units are marked "Multimodal".

If anyone knows if this is a shift of the traditional FedEx Ground from truck to rail (which might have already occured) let me know.

 

ed

 

 

Ground, not so much, they would be marked as Ground units.  The purple and grey boxes you see are FedEx Freight shipping non time-sensitive LTL freight.  Example, LA loads a lot of eastbound rail boxes and instead of using company drivers and bogging down the system, they dray those containers from the local terminal to a West Coast ramp and ride the rails to an East Coast hub (Atlanta is a BIG one). UPS does the same thing, although you might not know it, a lot of their volume travels in EMHU boxes.

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Posted by jeffhergert on Sunday, April 16, 2017 9:59 PM

I see a lot of trailers on the UP.  A lot on some trains are reefers, but they aren't meat out of Sioux City. 

Some truckers may be going to containers, but I see from time to time containers on their chassis acting like TOFC.

There was a time (around 2009) during the worst of the economic slow down when I hardly ever saw a true trailer on a train.

Jeff 

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Posted by MP173 on Friday, April 14, 2017 10:52 AM

I am curious as to what FedX is hauling with their containers....believe the units are marked "Multimodal".

If anyone knows if this is a shift of the traditional FedEx Ground from truck to rail (which might have already occured) let me know.

 

ed

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Posted by samfp1943 on Friday, April 14, 2017 9:55 AM

To add a little to what Ed(MP173) said; Watched primarily Westbound traffic throug here yesterday, on the Stackers, mostly solid doubled, with JBH being the primary, with a few JBH reefer cans, some Schneider cans. The first couple were solid stacked cans. the last three were mixed cans and trailers. I am seeing some cans labeled COFC. They are the same color(gray) and type (ribbed) of the majority of FedEx Intermodal containers. Wonder if maybe FedEx is starting up another service group?   

 

 


 

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Posted by MP173 on Friday, April 14, 2017 6:39 AM

This morning the past hour Chesterton rail cam has seen the following TOFC trains (mixed with containers):

21J  - had at least 18 YRC pups, 20 ABF pups and others

26W - UPS trailers

21E - 109 units total with 78 branded UPS pigs and cans

24M - 18 UPS 

20E will hit around 715am and is normally huge and it is followed by 20W a run thru from BNSF with lots of TOFC including usually about 40 UPS.

 

TOFC is alive and well on certain lanes.

 

Ed

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Posted by Los Angeles Rams Guy on Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:13 PM

greyhounds

 

Having said all that, I think there is a place for TOFC.  It will do well in smaller, shorter haul markets where the railroads will never be able to develop 240 container trains.  Sioux City-Chicago would be such a market. 

 

 

 

I'd like to think that corridors such as Chicago - Twin Cities and Twin Cities - Kansas City might be candidates where TOFC could find its niche.  

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Posted by Semper Vaporo on Thursday, April 13, 2017 6:09 PM

Deleted... wrong thread!

Semper Vaporo

Pkgs.

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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, April 13, 2017 5:38 PM
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Posted by CandOforprogress2 on Thursday, April 13, 2017 5:35 PM
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Posted by Norm48327 on Thursday, April 13, 2017 5:15 PM

[quote user="Shadow the Cats owner"]

With the biggest customers UPS Fed Ex along with JB Hunt and Schiender all running containers for the most part anymore TOFC is going to become rare. quote]

Disagree. Fuel costs and driver costs are the major consideration and as long as the railroads can get the freight there in reasonable time they will dominate the general freight transport simply because of cost.  Things that are more time sensitive may still be shipped by truck, and the railroads know that. UPS and FEDEX wouldn't ship by rail if the economics of trucking were better.

Norm


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Posted by MP173 on Thursday, April 13, 2017 4:59 PM

As mentioned above, the Chesterton web cam will provide lots of TOFC during the day, specifically:

26W - Chicago - Pittsburgh around 545am

24M - Chicago - Baltimore around 630am

20E - Chicago - Croxton around 730am

21J - Rutherford - Chicago around 600am

21M - Croxton - Chicago around 630am

23Z - Croxton - Chicago around 900am

In the afternoon you will see
20K - Chicago - Croxton around 245pm

205 - Mechanicsville - Chicago around 5pm

21Z - Rutherford - Chicago around 4pm

and my favorite

22W - Chicago - Rutherford (set your clock) at 8pm.

These trains typically will be both TOFC and stacks but are primarily driven by three segments:

1.  UPS...converting to containers, but the pigs still fly by rail.

2.  LTL ... lots of YRC and ABF pups.

3.  Refers...Marten, Navajo, Alliance, Swift, et al.  

While UPS is critical on these trains, I believe it is the refer truckers who actually provide the critical mass.  All those folks in NYC need their fruits, vegies, and meat and it is economically (at least for now until Greyhound puts his container refer business model together) moved by TOFC.

The morning Croxton train, 20E is a very impressive site typically with 125-150 revenue units, primarily trailers.  It competes head to head with the CSX Q010 in the Chicago to NYC market.  UPS relies heavily on both.

 

Ed

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Posted by Ulrich on Thursday, April 13, 2017 4:41 PM

TOFC is also hard on trailers if they're lifted on and off the flatcar. Years ago when CN was still a crown corp in the ealy 90s I would pickup trailers at the CN intermodal terminal in Toronto. Often I would see them hoist a trailer off the train and drop it onto the ground hard instead of placing it down ever so gently. Trailers really weren't designed for the rigors of TOFC.. and some carriers/shippers made matters worse by sending trailers that were nolonger deemed roadworthy over the rail.

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