I never see TOFC anymore on the CSX in the Nashville area. I see plenty of double stack containers on intermodal trains but no trailers. Has CSX stopped handling this traffic? Have other railroads stopped it also? The AAR still reports on trailers moved, so there must be some moving somewhere.
The traffic has migrated to containers. Less expensive for everyone.
I see them on the Rochelle, IL, and Roanoke, VA webcams nearly every time I watch them.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
In the absence of dedicated lanes of TOFC traffic, it's relatively unlikely you will see 'a couple' of trailers in a stack or container-intermodal consist. I am at the 'other end' of the Memphis-Nashville CSX line and will see if I have time to check consists at some point.
NS (the ex-Southern line) does run the occasional trailer in a container consist (the last I saw was about 5 days ago, one trailer in an otherwise container consist that was, I think, single-stacked or predominantly so), and in fact still runs spine cars with the little half-decks suitable for sideloaded trailers (I haven't seen an actual trailer moving on one of those yet, only containers). When I see another, I'll make a note of the car type and number, which may give a guide to how and where the trailer was loaded.
CSX traffic 'siameses' with CN traffic for a couple of miles over the ex-IC to reach Broadway and the Mississippi bridges, and if I get the chance I will watch for trailers in CN service.
overall I never see TOFC anymore on the CSX in the Nashville area. I see plenty of double stack containers on intermodal trains but no trailers. Has CSX stopped handling this traffic? Have other railroads stopped it also? The AAR still reports on trailers moved, so there must be some moving somewhere.
In this area, South Central Ks. BNSF runs any number of COFC in all directions (East, Towards KC area; South towards OK and Tx(via Ark City) and West onto BNSF Sou. T-con). Have never specifically counted trains, I just have observed that many Double Stacked COFC's also will have a string of TOFC cars tagged on to their length. Over weekend, Westbounds will have a lot of reefer trailers(Prime/T/A/MARTEN,etc) in their TOFC consists. First of the week, Eastbounds seem to have reefers in their TOFC consists,also ( difference is most of these have their units running). Lots of regular route trailers (Common Carriers) dry boxes. FedEx cans seem to get mixed in amongst TOFC trailers, as well as riding in stacks as well. Of Course, JBH is predominent, but occasionally, CH Robinson,Schneider, CSX,etc. cans can also be seen in the mix, and often ride on the permium trains. About once a week we get a westbound train with all export cans, this train generally will have ony two, maybe three engines on head end, a couple of units back in at about mid-train, and one unit on the DPU, and sometimes maybe two units in that position. The only trains I generally see are off the Ellinor sub between Mulvane and Augusta. The line south from Wichita has much more traffic over the day's time.
Here is a link to BNSF in Kansas PDF map @https://www.bnsf.com/customers/pdf/maps/div_ks.pdf
Lots of TOFC, frequently mixed in with COFC, to be seen on the Chesterton Railcam.
Norm
With the biggest customers UPS Fed Ex along with JB Hunt and Schiender all running containers for the most part anymore TOFC is going to become rare.
Shadow the Cats owner With the biggest customers UPS Fed Ex along with JB Hunt and Schiender all running containers for the most part anymore TOFC is going to become rare.
IT MAY. BUT IN THE MEANTIME....
TOFC is for the most part gone on Canadian railroads. CP's Expressway is the only exception that comes to mind.
In markets where double stack can be fully used it has tremendous advantages over TOFC. These advantages are largely in tare weight and length. In these markets TOFC simply has been largely replaced by a better system.
A five platform Trinity spine car is 290' 7 1/2" over pulling faces, weighs 175,000 pounds, and can carry five TOFC trailers.
A three platform Gunderson well car is 203' 9 3/4" over pulling faces, weighs but 125,000 pounds, and can carry six containers. (I know, it might carry more 20' containers.)
So with double stack the railroad is dragging around far less non revenue (tare) weight in a shorter train length. I figure the double stack to have around 60% of the tare weight per load of a TOFC train. That reduces everything from the amount of fuel required, to the number of locomotives required, to wear on track, etc.
I figure double stack to have around 58% of the length per load of a TOFC train. This length reduction comes in to significance on main lines. For example, I recently read that UP's Golden State Route has 9,000 foot sidings. Because of this, they limit train length to 8,800 feet on that route. On an 8,800 foot train they can carry something like 240 containers. On a similar length TOFC train, needed to fit the sidings, they would be limited to far fewer loads. This would drive the cost per load up.
Length also comes into importance in terminals. The terminal tracks are only so long. They can handle more volume with double stack than they can with TOFC. Terminals are expensive to expand.
Having said all that, I think there is a place for TOFC. It will do well in smaller, shorter haul markets where the railroads will never be able to develop 240 container trains. Sioux City-Chicago would be such a market.
TOFC is also hard on trailers if they're lifted on and off the flatcar. Years ago when CN was still a crown corp in the ealy 90s I would pickup trailers at the CN intermodal terminal in Toronto. Often I would see them hoist a trailer off the train and drop it onto the ground hard instead of placing it down ever so gently. Trailers really weren't designed for the rigors of TOFC.. and some carriers/shippers made matters worse by sending trailers that were nolonger deemed roadworthy over the rail.
As mentioned above, the Chesterton web cam will provide lots of TOFC during the day, specifically:
26W - Chicago - Pittsburgh around 545am
24M - Chicago - Baltimore around 630am
20E - Chicago - Croxton around 730am
21J - Rutherford - Chicago around 600am
21M - Croxton - Chicago around 630am
23Z - Croxton - Chicago around 900am
In the afternoon you will see20K - Chicago - Croxton around 245pm
205 - Mechanicsville - Chicago around 5pm
21Z - Rutherford - Chicago around 4pm
and my favorite
22W - Chicago - Rutherford (set your clock) at 8pm.
These trains typically will be both TOFC and stacks but are primarily driven by three segments:
1. UPS...converting to containers, but the pigs still fly by rail.
2. LTL ... lots of YRC and ABF pups.
3. Refers...Marten, Navajo, Alliance, Swift, et al.
While UPS is critical on these trains, I believe it is the refer truckers who actually provide the critical mass. All those folks in NYC need their fruits, vegies, and meat and it is economically (at least for now until Greyhound puts his container refer business model together) moved by TOFC.
The morning Croxton train, 20E is a very impressive site typically with 125-150 revenue units, primarily trailers. It competes head to head with the CSX Q010 in the Chicago to NYC market. UPS relies heavily on both.
Ed
[quote user="Shadow the Cats owner"]
With the biggest customers UPS Fed Ex along with JB Hunt and Schiender all running containers for the most part anymore TOFC is going to become rare. quote]
Disagree. Fuel costs and driver costs are the major consideration and as long as the railroads can get the freight there in reasonable time they will dominate the general freight transport simply because of cost. Things that are more time sensitive may still be shipped by truck, and the railroads know that. UPS and FEDEX wouldn't ship by rail if the economics of trucking were better.
NS Noreaster Service in New England via Pan Am Ry.
http://www.nscorp.com/content/nscorp/en/shipping-options/intermodal/norfolk-southern-services/nor-easter.html
http://www.ns-direct.com/customers/nor%C2%92easter
Deleted... wrong thread!
greyhounds Having said all that, I think there is a place for TOFC. It will do well in smaller, shorter haul markets where the railroads will never be able to develop 240 container trains. Sioux City-Chicago would be such a market.
I'd like to think that corridors such as Chicago - Twin Cities and Twin Cities - Kansas City might be candidates where TOFC could find its niche.
This morning the past hour Chesterton rail cam has seen the following TOFC trains (mixed with containers):
21J - had at least 18 YRC pups, 20 ABF pups and others
26W - UPS trailers
21E - 109 units total with 78 branded UPS pigs and cans
24M - 18 UPS
20E will hit around 715am and is normally huge and it is followed by 20W a run thru from BNSF with lots of TOFC including usually about 40 UPS.
TOFC is alive and well on certain lanes.
To add a little to what Ed(MP173) said; Watched primarily Westbound traffic throug here yesterday, on the Stackers, mostly solid doubled, with JBH being the primary, with a few JBH reefer cans, some Schneider cans. The first couple were solid stacked cans. the last three were mixed cans and trailers. I am seeing some cans labeled COFC. They are the same color(gray) and type (ribbed) of the majority of FedEx Intermodal containers. Wonder if maybe FedEx is starting up another service group?
I am curious as to what FedX is hauling with their containers....believe the units are marked "Multimodal".
If anyone knows if this is a shift of the traditional FedEx Ground from truck to rail (which might have already occured) let me know.
ed
I see a lot of trailers on the UP. A lot on some trains are reefers, but they aren't meat out of Sioux City.
Some truckers may be going to containers, but I see from time to time containers on their chassis acting like TOFC.
There was a time (around 2009) during the worst of the economic slow down when I hardly ever saw a true trailer on a train.
Jeff
MP173 I am curious as to what FedX is hauling with their containers....believe the units are marked "Multimodal". If anyone knows if this is a shift of the traditional FedEx Ground from truck to rail (which might have already occured) let me know. ed
Ground, not so much, they would be marked as Ground units. The purple and grey boxes you see are FedEx Freight shipping non time-sensitive LTL freight. Example, LA loads a lot of eastbound rail boxes and instead of using company drivers and bogging down the system, they dray those containers from the local terminal to a West Coast ramp and ride the rails to an East Coast hub (Atlanta is a BIG one). UPS does the same thing, although you might not know it, a lot of their volume travels in EMHU boxes.
Kielbasa MP173 I am curious as to what FedX is hauling with their containers....believe the units are marked "Multimodal". If anyone knows if this is a shift of the traditional FedEx Ground from truck to rail (which might have already occured) let me know. ed Ground, not so much, they would be marked as Ground units. The purple and grey boxes you see are FedEx Freight shipping non time-sensitive LTL freight. Example, LA loads a lot of eastbound rail boxes and instead of using company drivers and bogging down the system, they dray those containers from the local terminal to a West Coast ramp and ride the rails to an East Coast hub (Atlanta is a BIG one). UPS does the same thing, although you might not know it, a lot of their volume travels in EMHU boxes.
I mentioned this on another Thread, but I am really curious abot it. Recently, I have seen several containers that were, more or less identical to adjacent containers in the same trains (ie; FedEx Multimodal markings), they were that gray color with ribbed metal. Those 'other cans' wore a rectangular decal (maybe about 3' by 1' to 2'(?). They were white letters with that green shade that is on the FedEx ground trailer logos) lettered for COFC. Any ideas? I sort of thought that FedEx might be opening up some of their T/L business to Container loading for rail transport ?
I feel that part of the reason why TOFC seems to be replaced by double stack containers is partly because two 53' trailers will NOT FIT onto older 89' piggyback flatcars. The 89' TOFC cars were designed for transporting two 40' or 45' trailers NOT 53' trailers.
Do BNSF and UP still use spine cars?
ATSFGuy Do BNSF and UP still use spine cars?
They still do in this neck of the woods...Looking at some right now..EB COFC/TOFC, mixed on the spine cars..53' reefers and some YRC 28' Pups and some FedEx cans...COFC stacks, in well cars (53' Domestic JBH cans).
89' TOFC cars were designed to carry one 45' and one 40' trailer. After the Twin 45 modification many were able to carry two 45' trailers. Only three of those cars are left in the TTX fleet. But many were also modified to carry three 28' trailers as well as the two 45s. Just over 100 of them are left. A number of 89' flatcars were drawbar-connected and had their hitches repositioned to carry three 53' trailers as a temporary stopgap until TTAX all-purpose spine cars could enter the fleet. Just over 100 of them are left. TOFC traffic is now carried almost entirely on TTAX and TTRX spine cars, of which there just under 7,000 cars. But there are over 44,000 DTTX stack cars, so the relative demand for intermodal cars is obvious. And as previously pointed out, many spine cars carry containers instead of trailers.
Ulrich TOFC is for the most part gone on Canadian railroads. CP's Expressway is the only exception that comes to mind.
10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ...
CN runs their container trains up to 16000 feet. Many are in the 11-14000 foot range. Double stacks really make it beneficial.
Q025,Q026 and Q027 all carry TOFC through Nashville for CSX.
An "expensive model collector"
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