A common thread is perceived in three similar accidents. In 1956 in Los Angeles, a flipped train incident’s crew said they were going through orange groves but none were present. Another incident very recently and this one blanked out engineers’ acceleration took place. I’m inclined to believe some gas bombing took place or a planted gas bomb of some sort was triggered somehow that made the crew do the opposite to what they were supposed to do. In both recent cases the engines blanked out, or at least afterward they did. It may be worthwhile for investigators to take a long, hard look at some kind of mind altering gas that may have been used. If that was in fact what happened in all three incidents mentioned herein, unless that is looked at seriously, investigators may (“may”) never really find the actual cause of all these tragedies, and it likely will happen again!
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- K.P.’s absolute “theorem” from early, early childhood that he has seen over and over and over again: Those that CAUSE a problem in the first place will act the most violently if questioned or exposed.
Murphy Siding Randy Stahl A busted MU jumper could have caused it. How so?
Randy Stahl A busted MU jumper could have caused it.
A busted MU jumper could have caused it.
How so?
If you short the right wires in the 27 pin bundle the engine (s) get a mind of thier own. It is very easy with a couple of alligator clips and wire to control an engine. It is a rule to inspect and test MU jumpers and discard damaged ones for this reason. A jumper that has been crushed or damaged is a menace.
Randy
You know, I've had times that I moved the throttle in the wrong direction - notch down when I wanted more, notch up when I wanted to slow down. Of course, I immediately caught the mistake and dealt with it, but if someone is somehow confused, distracted, incapacitated, or otherwise not on top of what they are doing, it can happen.
A factor with us is that we regularly (every trip) spend half our time running "backwards," which reverses the logic I mentioned before.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
K. P. Harrier A common thread is perceived in three similar accidents. In 1956 in Los Angeles, a flipped train incident’s crew said they were going through orange groves but none were present. Another incident very recently and this one blanked out engineers’ acceleration took place. I’m inclined to believe some gas bombing took place or a planted gas bomb of some sort was triggered somehow that made the crew do the opposite to what they were supposed to do. In both recent cases the engines blanked out, or at least afterward they did. It may be worthwhile for investigators to take a long, hard look at some kind of mind altering gas that may have been used. If that was in fact what happened in all three incidents mentioned herein, unless that is looked at seriously, investigators may (“may”) never really find the actual cause of all these tragedies, and it likely will happen again!
Are you just joking?
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
K. P. HarrierA common thread is perceived in three similar accidents. In 1956 in Los Angeles, a flipped train incident’s crew said they were going through orange groves but none were present. Another incident very recently and this one blanked out engineers’ acceleration took place. I’m inclined to believe some gas bombing took place or a planted gas bomb of some sort was triggered somehow that made the crew do the opposite to what they were supposed to do. In both recent cases the engines blanked out, or at least afterward they did. It may be worthwhile for investigators to take a long, hard look at some kind of mind altering gas that may have been used. If that was in fact what happened in all three incidents mentioned herein, unless that is looked at seriously, investigators may (“may”) never really find the actual cause of all these tragedies, and it likely will happen again!
Is Roswell home? Or only home on this planet?
I would have expected something like this from a number of posters, not you.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Add me to the list of "Did He REALLY say That?"
I checked my calendar, Nope, it's NOT April 1st.
Doug
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
BaltACD K. P. Harrier Is Roswell home? Or only home on this planet? I would have expected something like this from a number of posters, not you.
K. P. Harrier
Norm
This is a serious ? - do the railroads, big & small, allow any kind of medication (thru a doctor & by prescription) for any of their crew positions? Or if you have to take meds for some affliction, you are a desk jockey?
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
GoodtimingWhoa, that gas is everywhere!
Mookie This is a serious ? - do the railroads, big & small, allow any kind of medication (thru a doctor & by prescription) for any of their crew positions? Or if you have to take meds for some affiction, you are a desk jockey?
This is a serious ? - do the railroads, big & small, allow any kind of medication (thru a doctor & by prescription) for any of their crew positions? Or if you have to take meds for some affiction, you are a desk jockey?
Yes, medications are allowed but not all. There are some medications that aren't allowed, even by prescription.
Jeff
Randy Stahl Murphy Siding Randy Stahl A busted MU jumper could have caused it. How so? If you short the right wires in the 27 pin bundle the engine (s) get a mind of thier own. It is very easy with a couple of alligator clips and wire to control an engine. It is a rule to inspect and test MU jumpers and discard damaged ones for this reason. A jumper that has been crushed or damaged is a menace.
No kidding, not too long ago in my area an Engineer had a locomotive run wild on her because the MU cable had been crushed (probably had been hanging too low and got squashed when the locomotive was coupled to another piece of equipment) and some of those wires that shouldn't have touched each other did. The result was that the engine revved up and started applying full load to the traction motors despite the throttle not being in notch 8. She immediately moved the throttle to idle but this had no effect, so she set the automatic brake to stop the train and applied the independant brake to try and settle the locomotive down (it was jumping and slipping like crazy and applying the independant will smooth that out, but unfortunately not reduce the electrical load to the motors). Next she put the automatic brake into emergency, which should also have forced the engine back to idle but it still kept loading. I think she wound up having to shut the engine down with the emergency fuel cutoff button as none of the controls or breakers had an effect on it.
Shortly after this incident a bulletin came out advising us that MU cables must be hung securely well above the drawbar and unneeded ones must be secured only in the dummy ports, never plugged into the active one.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
What Jeff said, and pilots have about the same rules. Some medications will ground them till they have been off them for a time and others are grounds for the FAA to deny them a pilot's certificate. There's also random drug and alcohol testing.
Norm48327What Jeff said, and pilots have about the same rules.
One "red flag" on OTC meds is "may cause drowsiness...."
Would You Believe K.P. Lives in Roswell, NM?
BaltACD K. P. Harrier A common thread is perceived in three similar accidents. In 1956 in Los Angeles, a flipped train incident’s crew said they were going through orange groves but none were present. Another incident very recently and this one blanked out engineers’ acceleration took place. I’m inclined to believe some gas bombing took place or a planted gas bomb of some sort was triggered somehow that made the crew do the opposite to what they were supposed to do. In both recent cases the engines blanked out, or at least afterward they did. It may be worthwhile for investigators to take a long, hard look at some kind of mind altering gas that may have been used. If that was in fact what happened in all three incidents mentioned herein, unless that is looked at seriously, investigators may (“may”) never really find the actual cause of all these tragedies, and it likely will happen again! Is Roswell home? Or only home on this planet? I would have expected something like this from a number of posters, not you.
Yes, I live in Roswell, and Scotty transports me to Cajon Pass and the Sunset Route regularly for reports to the forum. Scotty is what those mysterious flying saucer sightings are all about in Roswell! Yah, right!
Seriously, I’ve read the government report on that 1956 Los Angeles RDC incident, and likewise about the 2008 Metrolink Chatsworth head-on. The latter incident was attributed to the Metrolink engineer running a red signal. Simple enough, BUT YET, in the report it says railfans that actually saw the signal testified that it was green, which would be consistent with the engineer not stopping. The NTSB, however, questioned the credibility of those that say they saw the signal. Presumably, those that say they saw the signal didn’t know the engineer.
Interestingly, the NTSF uses the terminology “probable cause” in its reports (which they usually do). Since none at the NTSB actually saw the incidents they report on, they can’t say for an absolute certainty what actually happened, but a most likely cause as they perceive it.
In that light I see the strange incidents as we have been discussing as possibly having an unknown factor, with that unknown being an element of sabotage using an untraceable gas of some sort. Such would explain why top notch, super trustworthy railroad engineers do a whoppingly stupid thing that causes numerous fatalities, and they can’t remember doing that stupid thing.
Maybe someone on their deathbed with just an hour to live will confess to some train wrecking that will solve some NTSF accident mysteries. At this point, however, I don’t think it is wise to attribute weird train accidents’ possible causes to foolish Roswell factors and chalk them off. Can you imagine how you would feel if you saw a train pass a green signal and then head-on struck another train, but the NTSF questioned that because they could not duplicate it? I don’t think the wickedness of people is fully understood by accident investigators. My earlier post may or may not be applicable to the incident of this thread. But, it is best to keep an open mind, especially with the recent mysterious crashes.
Take care all,
K.P.
Pretty much all OTC drugs are allowed, but if you have adverse side effects it is up to you to stop using them.
If any incident occurs and you have abused OTC drugs, you will be held accountable.
Prescription drugs are allowed for certain medical conditions, such as those to control blood pressure, heart meds, insulin...as long as you are under a doctors care and the drugs are prescription, your good to go.
You are required to inform the carrier of such use and the carrier can require your doctor to provide them with proof of need and use, but as long as it is to control a medical condition that does not affect operations it is allowed.
Any schedule 2 stuff is forbidden, as is any alcohol in any measurable amount.
There is no legal limit out here.
23 17 46 11
What I find peculiar about the news of the interview with the engineer in this Hoboken crash is lack of any elaboration about the engineer’s forgetfulness. All they said is they he does not remember the collision.
That raises this obvious question: Aside from the point of impact, what other events before and after that moment does the engineer also not remember? Did the NTSB not ask about those details, or are they not releasing the answers?
For instance I would like to know whether the engineer remembers these details:
Opening the throttle from idle to notch #4.
Closing throttle from notch #4 to idle.
Making the “Emergency” air brake application.
Anything from the moment he described observing the speed indicator, to the point of impact.
Anything from the point of impact to the time he recovered his memory.
I would also like to know the answer to these questions:
At what point did he recover his memory?
Was the entire loss of memory continuous or intermittent?
A few months back, the railroad came out with a list of completely restricted, no use even with prescription, and a restricted use, 12 hours after taking dose before being able to work, medications. While the list is longer and broken down into individual catagories by drug type, I've listed a few because they are widely advertised on TV or otherwise known. No use medications include Xanax, Chantix, Lunesta, and Ambien CR. One of the 12 hour restrictions is Tylenol with Codeine.
I don't know if the updated list is just our own company's medical department view or if it came down from the FRA. An individual company can always be more restrictive than what the Government requires.
Ed and Jeff: Thank you. I have trouble taking a Tylenol w/o going to sleep shortly thereafter. And over the years, I have trained my brain/body to go to sleep when the head hits the pillow. But I suppose if it were my job, I would have trained myself to stay awake while working.
There is so much medication out there for everything real or imagined, I can't believe the railroads wouldn't have a really short list of what you can take. And medicine side effects are super scary.
As far as engineers not remembering after an accident - isn't this more common than not - that short term memory is often affected?
EuclidWhat I find peculiar about the news of the interview with the engineer in this Hoboken crash is lack of any elaboration about the engineer’s forgetfulness. All they said is they he does not remember the collision. That raises this obvious question: Aside from the point of impact, what other events before and after that moment does the engineer also not remember? Did the NTSB not ask about those details, or are they not releasing the answers? For instance I would like to know whether the engineer remembers these details: Opening the throttle from idle to notch #4. Closing throttle from notch #4 to idle. Making the “Emergency” air brake application. Anything from the moment he described observing the speed indicator, to the point of impact. Anything from the point of impact to the time he recovered his memory. I would also like to know the answer to these questions: At what point did he recover his memory? Was the entire loss of memory continuous or intermittent?
Considering that the NTSB has yet to complete their entire investigation and come up with a final report - I would expect anything they present to the public to be at best a representation of known provable facts. In depth 'understanding' of the engineer's reported failure to remember is far from a proveable fact, and thus not elaborated upon.
BaltACD Euclid What I find peculiar about the news of the interview with the engineer in this Hoboken crash is lack of any elaboration about the engineer’s forgetfulness. All they said is they he does not remember the collision. That raises this obvious question: Aside from the point of impact, what other events before and after that moment does the engineer also not remember? Did the NTSB not ask about those details, or are they not releasing the answers? For instance I would like to know whether the engineer remembers these details: Opening the throttle from idle to notch #4. Closing throttle from notch #4 to idle. Making the “Emergency” air brake application. Anything from the moment he described observing the speed indicator, to the point of impact. Anything from the point of impact to the time he recovered his memory. I would also like to know the answer to these questions: At what point did he recover his memory? Was the entire loss of memory continuous or intermittent? Considering that the NTSB has yet to complete their entire investigation and come up with a final report - I would expect anything they present to the public to be at best a representation of known provable facts. In depth 'understanding' of the engineer's reported failure to remember is far from a proveable fact, and thus not elaborated upon.
Euclid What I find peculiar about the news of the interview with the engineer in this Hoboken crash is lack of any elaboration about the engineer’s forgetfulness. All they said is they he does not remember the collision. That raises this obvious question: Aside from the point of impact, what other events before and after that moment does the engineer also not remember? Did the NTSB not ask about those details, or are they not releasing the answers? For instance I would like to know whether the engineer remembers these details: Opening the throttle from idle to notch #4. Closing throttle from notch #4 to idle. Making the “Emergency” air brake application. Anything from the moment he described observing the speed indicator, to the point of impact. Anything from the point of impact to the time he recovered his memory. I would also like to know the answer to these questions: At what point did he recover his memory? Was the entire loss of memory continuous or intermittent?
I am not asking for provable facts. I am only curious about his response in the interview. I recall that a full transcript of the interview with the engineer of Amtrak #188 was made public shortly after the wreck. In that case, there were details about where the memory ended, and the period in which it remained inactive.
Preliminary report, no news in it.
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Reports/DCA16MR011_Preliminary_Report.pdf
Stepson has it. A former boss had it. He could easily fall asleep in his office chair.
Couple times I passed his house on way home from work and would see his car front up against the garage door and his brake lights on. Still in the car asleep. He mentioned to us it surprised him.
News on Google USA. Hate posting news articles anymore. Too much garbage.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
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