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String Lining

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 29, 2019 11:45 AM

NDG
CN 7750 heading Wire Train collided with CN 7903 in Mount Royal Tunnel w Fire.

Story is intriguing, though.  Two coaches caught fire in the station, and a locomotive was dispatched to cut them from the rest of the consist and proceed through the tunnel, although smoke from the burning cars was blowing down and through the tunnel giving no visibility.  This move was 'supposed' to be switched to a different track ... presumably in part to avoid the wire train? ... but apparently ran straight into the wire train unexpectedly, perhaps at considerable speed (the assumption likely being to get the flaming mess out of the tunnel as a priority).

Most of the men made it out by going 'upwind' to the station, but suffered in getting past the wreck.  Those who couldn't get past were the ones who didn't survive.  

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Sunday, December 29, 2019 3:43 PM
For the Experts??
 
What is on running board ahead of cab??
 
 
 
Here as New. Short Stacks. Numbers under Rad early.
 
 
Diesel Data Book 1964.
 
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Overmod on Sunday, December 29, 2019 3:47 PM

NDG
What is on running board ahead of cab??

I'm thinking either a separately-fired cab heater or an early version of a 'Hotstart' engine-heating system for standby preservation of the diesel engine in severe cold conditions.  That is certainly something a GTW switch engine might encounter...

I believe we had an older discussion, a few years ago, about exactly this.  I'd post over on RyPN as someone in 'preservation' may well have drawings or even complete units and can give full details.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Sunday, December 29, 2019 9:47 PM

This might be photoshop, but it's too good not to share

No photo description available.

I agree about the engine/cab heater theory.

CN's last 44-tonners (class ER-4b, built 1956) came with kerosene-fired engine heaters.  The documentation we received along with #4 contains the manual for them, though they were removed from that particular unit eons ago (we recently installed electric circulating block heaters).

Engineers must have just loved the low stacks on those early EMC units....

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by tree68 on Monday, December 30, 2019 7:21 AM

SD70Dude
This might be photoshop, but it's too good not to share

I'd guess it's not photoshop.  There are spots on our line where a deer could jump down on a train.  I'd doubt the deer did it on purpose, though.

I know people who have had deer land on top of their vehicle.

OTOH, the deer is probably thinking "where the heck am I, and how do I get out of here?"

LarryWhistling
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Posted by Deggesty on Monday, December 30, 2019 7:47 AM

tree68

 

 
SD70Dude
This might be photoshop, but it's too good not to share

 

I'd guess it's not photoshop.  There are spots on our line where a deer could jump down on a train.  I'd doubt the deer did it on purpose, though.

I know people who have had deer land on top of their vehicle.

OTOH, the deer is probably thinking "where the heck am I, and how do I get out of here?"

 

I hope the deer got off before the next tunnel.

Johnny

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Posted by NDG on Monday, December 30, 2019 3:30 PM
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Posted by Flintlock76 on Monday, December 30, 2019 4:38 PM

Now that's a dramatic ad!

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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 2:30 PM

Never too old to have a happy childhood!

              

NDG
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Posted by NDG on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 4:33 PM

If they left last Monday the trip could span TWO 2 Years??

 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 4:46 PM

https://www.viarail.ca/en/plan-your-trip/customize-your-train-schedule

Click on Winnipeg-Churchill and you get an easy to read schedule 

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 5:08 PM

Lv Winnipeg  12:05

Ar The Pas     01:25

Lv The Pas.    02:30

Ar Thompson  12:00

Lv Thompson. 17:00 ( note 5 hours here)

Ar Gillam        23:00

Lv Gillam        23:30

Ar Churchill     09:00

So 1 day 21 hours

1,063 Miles  1711 Km

 

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 8:11 PM

Does it have to rest in Thompson so long northbound now because it is an extremely strenuous trip from Winnipeg? Uphill all the way?

It used to have a much shorter stop there NB. Has the topography changed?Big Smile

Johnny

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Posted by Miningman on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 8:22 PM

I have no idea Johnny. Perhaps the train is cleaned and re outfitted. Up ahead is one whole heck of a lot of nothing. 

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Posted by AgentKid on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 11:43 PM

NDG
Stainless Steel Memories. Much to see here, most now gone. Steam Heat, and so on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYzAn_E0LPQ

Thank you, NDG.

I really enjoyed the video.

Three quick mentions:

My Mom and Dad met in the office of the Lake Louise station.

Dad once held the Third Trick Operator job at Stephen, BC. 212 feet west of the white stone cairn behind the yellow sign annoucing the Continental Divide.

The Calgary Tower may have looked futuristic in the film, but it is showing its' age. One of the elevators malfuctioned earlier this year, and so many other issues were found with both elevators that the Tower was closed for over four months. It only just reopened a few weeks back.

I hope everyone has a Happy New Year.

Bruce

 

So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.

"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere"  CP Rail Public Timetable

"O. S. Irricana"

. . . __ . ______

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Posted by MMLDelete on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 11:45 PM

I had looked at this thread a few times, and seeing nothing about string-lining, I quit checking it. But then recently I got curious and went to the beginning, and I see it did begin as being about string-lining.

Two questions:

In the first ten pages or so, there are about a hundred posts by NDG which say simply "Thank you." I see others quoting him, and answering him, but all I see from NDG is "Thank you." What's up with that?

And what is the de facto subject of this thread? Anything at all?

Thanks.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Tuesday, December 31, 2019 11:55 PM

Lithonia Operator

And what is the de facto subject of this thread? Anything at all?

Anything we feel like.  Usually Canadian, but does not absolutely have to be, and that's about it as far as I can tell. 

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:09 AM

NDG removed/ deleted many of his posts. That's his own business. He has his reasons. 

The thread dealt with a lot of Mining related Railroading but became a destination for just about anything but has maintained a lot of very very good subjects and commentary. 

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 12:39 AM

A proposed 2-8-10-2 came up on another thread recently, so why not a 2-10-10-6?

Image may contain: train, sky and outdoor

Greetings from Alberta

-an Articulate Malcontent

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Posted by NDG on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 1:32 AM

 

A proposed 2-8-10-2 came up on another thread recently, so why not a 2-10-10-6?

Image may contain: train, sky and outdoor

 

Would it negotiate the Sprial Tunnels?

 

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 1:36 AM

NDG

Would it negotiate the Sprial Tunnels?

I thought about it some more and came up with a great potential use for that thing:  A pusher on Rogers Pass.  Just needs shorter drivers. 

Imagine a pair of those in the middle of a loaded coal train, instead of the 6 six SD40's that were a common sight before the Mount Macdonald Tunnel was built.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by Miningman on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 1:37 AM

Of course it would , it's articulated. Turbine driven stoker to handle that ginormous firebox. Notice it has 2 bells because it's so darn big, the sound doesn't get there before the locomotive does so it needs 2 bells. This makes the speed of sound double. 

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Posted by NDG on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 2:12 AM

This makes the speed of sound double. 

Of COURSE! How careless of me to overlook that!

Thank You. 

Time for my Meds.

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Posted by Overmod on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 7:20 AM

NDG
 

SD70dude noted: A proposed 2-8-10-2 came up on another thread recently, so why not a 2-10-10-6?

Image may contain: train, sky and outdoor

Would it negotiate the Sprial Tunnels?

Well, frankly, I don't know, because I couldn't find any statistics for the Sprial Tunnels.  

If it were spiral tunnels, I suspect it would do whatever the right-angle counterpart of daylighting is.   Perhaps an alternative to the kind of thing involved in double-tracking where separate new bores are contemplated.  CP probably needs more capex through there, so a Good Thing.  

Whether two of them could pass safely on the new double track is another question ... as is the further widening once operating on double track ... but that's a question for the operating department to address.

Interesting that that boiler incorporates a full Franco-Crosti recuperator, as the length of actual boiler tubes in that shell won't be more than the standard 20' to 22' at most, and you need to arrange the weight balance on the forward engine while keeping the equalization proper (as in the Alco approach on the Challengers and the earlier implementation on N&W).  As such, the immediate joy of recognition is that Henderson received some posthumous justification, and the "boiler" is actually hinged roughly where it was on the ATSF 2-10-10-2 'precursers' (note sp.) but with no vertical accommodation and only limited torsion in its hinge-ball arrangements.  (We find a large set of balls on the Franco-Crosti prototype, for this purpose, and I think we can predicate an even larger one on any engineer willing to run this one.)  Vince, I can't imagine why you question that firebox size; it appears no larger than the one on an Allegheny, scarcely a problem for even 1940s stoker technology.

Presumably there is a full-width diaphragm to preserve the semi-streamlined look at the hinge point, as I see no sign of it in the picture.  That is a clever thought by the CP designers, as it eliminates the potential issues with cinders getting in the joint that so plagued the Santa Fe.

The thing that makes me wonder if this is a hoax is the relative absence of visible sand-dome capacity.  As located, it occurs to me that the sand would all be used within the first 15 minutes or so in any particularly bad weather, and in light of what the Canadian engineers have related to us recently about obligatory sander removal, this seems a particularly Bad Idea.

I wonder if it has an improved-enough air system for the movable headlight.  It certainly would require aircraft-grade power assist if cables were to be retained, and the mechanical linkage to accommodate stretch and thermal expansion only complicates the 'tracker action' issues.  I have to wonder if the correct answer is to mount an aircraft-spotting searchlight on some kind of track car and run that a few hundred feet in front of the engine to give the crew a fighting chance at a reasonable view of the ROW.  In the absence of radio they could use some kind of whistle code to instruct how they wanted the beam pointed, probably with some kind of prearranged code as with Naval attack plans for how to keep the beam working afterward.

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Posted by SD70Dude on Wednesday, January 1, 2020 11:33 PM

I propose a second tender to haul extra sand!  And maybe some water too, just don't mix the two!

Meanwhile, here is the business end of a much smaller engine from 'the other railway':

Image may contain: train

No photo description available.

Greetings from Alberta

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Posted by tree68 on Thursday, January 2, 2020 1:23 AM

If ever there was call for a "cab forward," this would be it.

Remember that locomotives such as the Alleghany, Big Boy, Challenger, and a host of other big articulateds were built for specific territories and didn't wander far off their beaten track.  I'm sure the track structure in those territories was adjusted to meet their requirements.

I'd bet that when a trip is proposed for those locomotives that MOW is taking a close look for potential problem areas.

I've seen the Challenger referred to on these pages, by railroaders, as "switch straighteners."  Clearly the other articulateds fall into the same category.

As for a moveable headlight, a system of sensors and servos would make it a breeze.  No need for a complicated mechanical linkage or air system.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

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Posted by NDG on Thursday, January 2, 2020 4:23 AM

 

Change Off @ Gohier.
 
Just Found This.
 
CN Gohier. Looking East to Ahuntsic/Joliette. Steam will Cut Off and run West towards Camera and Turcot West.
 
Electric English Electric will back on and pull train thru tunnel into Montreal Central Station. ( Downgrade )
 
 
CN EJ Tower and Diamonds close behind Camera.
 
 
Location Once CNR Gohier. At Start of Tangent at Top.
 
 
All Reorged.
 

Thank You.

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Posted by Overmod on Thursday, January 2, 2020 8:28 AM

tree68
As for a moveable headlight, a system of sensors and servos would make it a breeze.  No need for a complicated mechanical linkage or air system.

And adding CCTV as in the Castor project would be simple, too, using nothing that wasn't available in the immediate postwar 1940s.  One suspects that if it would stand up to suicide bomb runs it could be made to work on Rogers Pass...

I mentioned what the CP actually used as an approach for steerable headlights in this period.  

The older 'approach' used relatively cheap cable, and it would be interesting to see the arrangements used in the cab to steer the light and hold it in position, and to center it again when no longer being used 'off-axis'.   Presumably there were adequate means to adjust slack length in the cables (and compensate for severe temperature swings while running) and to 'adjust out' thermal expansion in the boiler similar to how throttle linkages were arranged.  I suspect this is why two cables, in a pull-pull arrangement, would have been used to align the light practically.  NDG or others may know if Bowden cable was ever tried for the purpose.  

The air approach, interestingly enough, could have been made fully proportional very easily, using nothing more than a typical air-throttle actuator (which is as good as a Hadfield for skewing rapidly to a given position and then holding it mechanically).  It would be interesting to see exactly how the steering arrangement was actually set up -- probably with neither a proportional valve nor a positive-location brake.  Either of these would have fixed the 'overshoot' problem more or less effectively.  The apparent fact that CP discontinued steerable lights rather than address this indicated to me that the full cost of an electrical steering system would not have been justifiable; many of the modern devices that would make this a 'breeze' either didn't exist in the presumable era this locomotive would be operating or would have cost far more than the air alternative.

It does have to be said that much of the research into control fluidics didn't take place until the late 1950s, so some of the knowledge of how to implement something like PID control strictly with air would not have been 'in the literature' for CP to use.  But I have to admit that locked sync from, say, horizontal sweep levers in the cab to the ends of a proportional air cylinder doesn't seem like anything early-Forties tech didn't already have an answer to; the control on the Vulcan 'conversion kits' for Franklin type D on S160 2-8-0s had already solved it by the late Forties.

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