Metro North, 6 dead

[Jim in Fla]

The road that crosses the tracks there ends,eastbound, at a traffic light about 5-7 car lengths ahead at the Taconic Parkway.

We have a similar siruation here in Rockledge, FL with the FEC and parallel US1 where eastbound auto trafic has only a short distance between them.

The New Sunrail commuter service through Orlando has had a few train vs car crashes since it started where cars stopped on the tracks, no one killed as I recall. I guess people cannot learn that it is a bad idea to stop on the tracks and that gates come down BECAUSE A TRAIN IS COMING!

[carnej1]

petitnj

Speculation: Since the fire was so intense, something kept it going. Gasolene would not have come into the passenger car -- the third rail did. The vehicle as it was pushed in front of the locomotive, tore the third rail from its mountings and it came up into the first passenger car. The live third rail sparked against the body of the rail car and set off the fire. As long as the third rail was hot, sparks and flames spread. 

 

There are first person eyewitness accounts that say that the third rail did in fact penetrate the car...

 

[petitnj]

Speculation: Since the fire was so intense, something kept it going. Gasolene would not have come into the passenger car -- the third rail did. The vehicle as it was pushed in front of the locomotive, tore the third rail from its mountings and it came up into the first passenger car. The live third rail sparked against the body of the rail car and set off the fire. As long as the third rail was hot, sparks and flames spread. 

[Euclid]

As I recall reading, there was more than one report from the public that the crossing system was malfunctioning yesterday morning.  In this case, it seems that the gate lowered as the train approached, so that would be normal. 

Sometimes as a train approaches, gates come down on top of vehicles that have stopped in foul of the crossing because they are advancing slowly in a line of congested traffic.  If that happened, it would not indicate any malfunction.  It would be normal, and the driver would be at fault for entering the crossing with insufficient clearance on the opposite side.  In that scenario, if vehicle was stopped and fouling the gate, the flashers would normally activate first for maybe 5-10 seconds.  Then the gate would lower onto the vehicle.  That would be a case of driver error for entering the crossing with insufficient space on the opposite side.

However, if there were a malfunction in which the flashers failed to activate, and the gate came down in response to an approaching train, there would be no advance warning of the dropping gate.  If a driver were approaching at say 30-40 mph, he/she might bust through the gate because there would be no advance warning that it was going to drop.  So they would not be able to stop in time. 

However, if the driver were moving very slowly in congested traffic, entered the crossing with enough room to clear on the opposite side, and the gate came down without any pre-warning flasher activation; the gate might drop on the vehicle and the driver might stop rather than continuing and busting the gate.  That scenario fits the facts of the accident as reported.      

[Ulrich]

I wouldn't discount the possibility of a gate failure. I have personally encountered a malfunctioning gate on several occasions. The last time was at a malfunctioning crossing in downtown Toronto back in 2002. The gate would come down and then go back up... and THEN the train would come through. The train crews seemed to be aware of the problem as the conductor was hanging off the front end with a flag..better than nothing at all I guess. Maybe that's what happened to this lady. In my own experience mentioned above, I called CN and they had a work team on it within hours. If this can happen in downtown Toronto then I'm sure it can happen anywhere. Drivers should always ASSUME the crossing warning is malfunctioning  and look both ways even if the barrier is up! 

[Euclid]

This report says that the third rail caused the fire in the first car. 

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-ny-train-20150204-story.html

 

The reports say that the gate came down on the vehicle and the driver got out to look at it and she tried to move the gate.  Then she got back in the vehicle and pulled ahead. 

Also of interest is the information that says that calls were made earlier yesterday to report that the gates were malfunctioning at that crossing.  However, either a false activation or a failure to activate would not readily correlate with the details of this crash.  Generally, if the gate came down on the vehicle, that would have to be a case of driver error. 

However, one scenario of malfunction would correlate with the crash as follows:  A vehicle moving slowly entered the crossing with gates up and no flashers activated.  Then the gate suddenly dropped on the vehicle.  In other words, the gate dropped with no advance warning from the flashers. 

[samfp1943]

NorthWest

Paul North: I understand. However, the mechanics do have a lot to do with how the fire started. I am still guessing that this is a third rail caused fire, as pictures show the car in contact with it.

It has been reported elsewhere that the engineer made it out alive, which is interesting.

 

 

National Media is reporting this on a number of News Programs. Here is a link provided with photo. @ http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/westchester/2015/02/03/train-car-collide-valhalla-mass-casualties/22822737/

Apparently, five passengers perished in the resultant fire on the train ( again no mention if the train's crew perished(?)

The driver of the car was reported to have initially been caught between the crossing gates, according to the driver of the car behind the Jeep in traffic, the woman driver got out of the car, appeared to be 'disoriented' re-entered the car,  backed it off the track. then pulled back in front of the train.

[NorthWest]

Paul North: I understand. However, the mechanics do have a lot to do with how the fire started. I am still guessing that this is a third rail caused fire, as pictures show the car in contact with it.

It has been reported elsewhere that the engineer made it out alive, which is interesting.

 

[skull-48]

Just saw the 10:00 news, and sadly, the death toll is now 7.  Eyewitness said gates were working and that the road/crossing is often used when adjacent highway is crowded.  Train was on its way to Chappiqua, a few stations south of Brewster North, the furthest electrified point on the Harlem line.

[tree68]

That Jeep can hold 15 gallons of gas.  If any of that got inside the railcar, it would certainly provide a good start for a fire.  The car would have collision protection, but I don't know that it includes the sheet metal.  and the windows, while resistant to breakage, probably aren't up to hitting a vehicle at track speed.

I have no idea what the fire resistance specs are for the upholstery in such a car.  If they're low or non-existent, then the seats and interior coverings may well have burned like gasoline once ignited.  That's a problem we're seeing in structure fires these days.  The furnishings in modern homes might as well be made of gasoline for how quickly they burn.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

To clarify: I'm focusing on the fire protection and crashworthiness of the cars, not the mechanics of the various collisions.

- Paul North.

[NorthWest]

It appears to be the lead car. The Amtrak incident was different, in that the truck hit the side of the train. Here, the train hit the car at the front. The train is an M7, a rather recent model. I suspect that the car tangled up the third rail, and that was what started the fire.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Really tragic event, with innocent passengers killed.  The photo with the article shows the (lead ?) passenger car to be an essentially burned-out hulk. 

I thought after the 1996 Amtrak - MARC collision near Silver Spring, MD, and some others, that better crashworthiness standards were enacted to prevent this kind of thing ?  Then again, didn't the dump truck-into-Amtrak crash in Nevada 3 -4 years ago also kill a number of passengers from the resulting fire ?

- Paul North. 

[wanswheel]

Excerpt from the NY Times

Six people were killed when a Metro-North railroad train struck a vehicle on the tracks in Valhalla, N.Y., in Westchester County, on Tuesday evening in a fiery crash, officials said.

The female driver of the vehicle and five passengers on the train were killed, said Aaron Donovan, a spokesman for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/nyregion/metro-north-train-hits-vehicle-on-tracks.html?_r=0

Excerpt from The Journal-News

"The gates came down on top of the vehicle, which was stopped on the tracks…The driver got out to look at the rear of the car, then she got back in and drove forward and was stuck."

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/local/westchester/2015/02/03/train-car-collide-valhalla-mass-casualties/22822737/