Electric, Diesel and Steam Locomotives

[Sterling1]

I noticed the Hi-Ad trucks on the Alco C-C trucks. The springing is strange and how much more adhesion was achieved with these trucks?

[Overmod]

There is a good high-resolution picture of UP C-855 #60 at

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/up60.jpg

which shows the integral-tank construction fairly well (if you look closely you can see the weld between the side and the belly of this tank). Note also the relative height of the frame, to clear the span bolsters between the paired B trucks.

I believe part of this design is intended to permit shorter overall length than a conventional tank would have permitted. As an example of a "normal" large Alco fuel tank, see here:

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cr6792.jpg

and for another idea Alco used for a very large fuel bunker, see the arrangement on the "Alco-Haulic" DH643s:

http://www.calclassic.com/alco/photos/sp9802.jpg

Note that neither of the 'latter' approaches are particularly well-suited to a B-B+B-B locomotive with high frames. I can't help but wonder whether the C-855 style tank was considerably cheaper to make, GIVEN the rather complex and tall frame required by the span-bolster trucks...

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by Guilford350

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Does anyone know if there are design papers for the control stands knee knockers and all the others?

Control stands for older locomotives? If you're looking for photos, then check out these operator manuals: http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/manual/manual.html

I mean what kind of design of loco control stand I hear about AAR versions and the most recent (1980-90ish) desktop controls?

I waited long enough for the AAR control stand on SD70ACe
the website is yet again another RailPics site
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=83563

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Okay something in the Rail Pics website rakes in the questions
I saw an SCL U18B#333 is that long gone and why did they build such short locos?

The U18B is shorter to reduce weight. It was intended as a replacement for older GP9 and GP7 locomotives, and the SCL units actually used EMD trucks.

GE already built versions of its U series with both twelve and sixteen cylinders, but using the same body design, with just different hood door arrangements to tell them apart.

With the U18, they decided to shorten the unit since the V-8 engine was almost exactly half as long as the V-16, so they didn't need the length, and this would reduce the weight to that of the smaller units it was replacing, which were used on lighter track.

As to the P30CH, the shape of its roof is similar to the earlier U30CG built for Santa Fe, and is really just an extension of the shape of the cab roof of the U series units. It would allow operation in tight clearances in the East, and possibly they were hoping for orders from New York City commuter operations. In fact only Amtrak bought any, and they tended to be used in the South, on the Auto Train and from Chicago to New Orleans (at least, that's where I saw them!)

Peter

[M636C]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1



What do you mean by intergral fuel tank, and does the US locos have them?

The only US example I know of is the one I mentioned, the Union Pacific Alco Century 855, of which three were built, two A units and one cabless B unit.

While a normal locomotive has a frame in the form of a long, shallow wide box, with a separate fuel tank in the form of a box underneath it, the 855 has a frame that while flat on top, curved down to fill the space between the (two pairs of two) trucks and curved back up again. This "bulge" was sealed off and fitted with gauges and fill (and drain) connections.

In the Indian locomotives, and in similar Alco and GE units in Australia, this gives a large fuel tank while saving in weight over all (the extra weight of the bigger frame is less than that of a separate tank).

I can't imagine that this was the reason on a unit that had the power equipment of two C-628s above the frame, but even UP may have had weight limits!

Peter

[Sterling1]

Same addicting website Rail Pics this time about the SD40-2 being purchased by Florida East Coast (FEC) for reasons and are they going to be repainted soon, they look like they have the old Armour Yellow and Harbor Mist Gray scheme same format as above.

[Sterling1]

Same website Rail Pics I also saw the P30CH a strange looking GE, I heard that their reliabilty stank, I want all the details about them, loco specs, etc
The roof design looked like something copied from Europe!!!

[Sterling1]

Okay something in the Rail Pics website rakes in the questions
I saw an SCL U18B#333 is that long gone and why did they build such short locos?

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

OK, India!

For many years, India has built its own versions of Alco export units and these are still the most common units in India.

Recently they have started getting EMD GT46MAC units, and one of these was illustrated on a recent thread on the MR Forum, one of Antonio's about modified SDP40F units as EMD test units. This isn't a "correct" EMD Export designation, because the "MAC" is really a carry over from Domestic model designations.

There are also A1A-A1A passenger versions, where one inverter bank is used for HEP, as is an option on recent Alaska SD70MAC units. The Indian units are really a repackaged SD70MAC to fit lower height and broad gauge.

There are two main types of Alco units, the 5'6" gauge DL-560, which has a really high tech frame with integral fuel tank (also a feature of UPs C-855 Alcos). The DL-560 has a 16-251 rated at 2600 HP, and is a sort of export C-628 again lower in height. Some of these had an ugly wide nose cab, but most units had high noses. This was the main broad gauge unit, although there were a few EMD GT16C, a sort of export, high hood SD24.

On metre gauge, there was a DL-535 a lightweight six axle unit with a turbocharged and intercooled (air to air intercooler, as now on used the GE ES44 series) 6-251D rated at 1200 HP. These were unbelievably low in height, about 12 feet high to meet really serious clearance restrictions. India has actually exported these to Tanzania in Africa and to Vietnam and Malaysia in South East Asia. EMD got to build a few truly weird GA12 units with body mounted motors, 1'B'B'1' wheel arrangement driven through cardan shafts, and some GA12C C'C' units as a slightly more practical version.

India has a lot of 25kV AC electrification, and after trying French locomotives with geared monomotor trucks, they developed their own units with Alco trucks, and six motorsper unit. There are also DC and dual voltage versions of these units, geared for both passenger and freight.

More recently, they got modern electric units from ABB, and built some of their own with trucks copied from US Alco C-636 units.

I'll give Poland a miss right now, and suggest to Dan that the SDL39s actually ended up in Chile, modified for broad gauge! And I wouldn't dare make that up! They are in a green and blue colour scheme now.

Peter

What do you mean by intergral fuel tank, and does the US locos have them?

[M636C]

OK, India!

For many years, India has built its own versions of Alco export units and these are still the most common units in India.

Recently they have started getting EMD GT46MAC units, and one of these was illustrated on a recent thread on the MR Forum, one of Antonio's about modified SDP40F units as EMD test units. This isn't a "correct" EMD Export designation, because the "MAC" is really a carry over from Domestic model designations.

There are also A1A-A1A passenger versions, where one inverter bank is used for HEP, as is an option on recent Alaska SD70MAC units. The Indian units are really a repackaged SD70MAC to fit lower height and broad gauge.

There are two main types of Alco units, the 5'6" gauge DL-560, which has a really high tech frame with integral fuel tank (also a feature of UPs C-855 Alcos). The DL-560 has a 16-251 rated at 2600 HP, and is a sort of export C-628 again lower in height. Some of these had an ugly wide nose cab, but most units had high noses. This was the main broad gauge unit, although there were a few EMD GT16C, a sort of export, high hood SD24.

On metre gauge, there was a DL-535 a lightweight six axle unit with a turbocharged and intercooled (air to air intercooler, as now on used the GE ES44 series) 6-251D rated at 1200 HP. These were unbelievably low in height, about 12 feet high to meet really serious clearance restrictions. India has actually exported these to Tanzania in Africa and to Vietnam and Malaysia in South East Asia. EMD got to build a few truly weird GA12 units with body mounted motors, 1'B'B'1' wheel arrangement driven through cardan shafts, and some GA12C C'C' units as a slightly more practical version.

India has a lot of 25kV AC electrification, and after trying French locomotives with geared monomotor trucks, they developed their own units with Alco trucks, and six motorsper unit. There are also DC and dual voltage versions of these units, geared for both passenger and freight.

More recently, they got modern electric units from ABB, and built some of their own with trucks copied from US Alco C-636 units.

I'll give Poland a miss right now, and suggest to Dan that the SDL39s actually ended up in Chile, modified for broad gauge! And I wouldn't dare make that up! They are in a green and blue colour scheme now.

Peter

[Sterling1]

Remember back in 2003 in Ohio when CSX 8888 ran away form the yard, what was the other loco# that participated in slowing and bring that train to halt? What is it's history?

[Sterling1]

I wonder abou the other L or lightweight locos that EMD built, i wonder about their histories?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Hmm since we talked about Australia, let's talk about smoe place elsewhere in the British Commonwealth; if it's in North America instead go ahead.

What motive power and type of rolling stock does India uses these days?

While the above question simmers, I wonder what the Polish railway system is using for their motive power, and oh please apply the all deatils format; the info being greatly appreciated[:D]

SDL39's....and they have an interesting history.....

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1

Hmm since we talked about Australia, let's talk about smoe place elsewhere in the British Commonwealth; if it's in North America instead go ahead.

What motive power and type of rolling stock does India uses these days?

While the above question simmers, I wonder what the Polish railway system is using for their motive power, and oh please apply the all deatils format; the info being greatly appreciated[:D]

[Sterling1]

Hmm since we talked about Australia, let's talk about smoe place elsewhere in the British Commonwealth; if it's in North America instead go ahead.

What motive power and type of rolling stock does India uses these days?

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

The X class, of Victorian Railways, later Freight Australia and now Pacific National, and the Queensland Rail 2130 were both export versions of SD-38s, the X being a G-26C but the 2130 being a GL-26C, with 16-645E engines.

L = Lightweight Frame

The GL-26Cs were all narrow (3'6") gauge but the X (G-26C) were used on both broad (5'3") and standard gauge.

The QR is stll running quite a few GL-26C, they had about 100 numbered in the 2100 and 2200 series. The oldest units with DC generators are mainly out of service and some were sold to The "Antofagasta and Boliva Railway" (FCAB) in Peru.

There is a plan to rebuild some as GT-22C, replacing the 16-645 with a 12-645E3, which increases the power slightly, 2000HP to 2250HP, but improves the fuel economy under most operating conditions. These may be ballasted up to about 110 tonnes fom the original 96 tonnes (hence the "L" in the original model number) to improve haulage capacity.

The oldest X class, which also had DC generators (numbers X 31 to X36), and which originally had the rare 16-567E engine (a 645 fitted with 567 cylinder liners) making them G-16C as built, have generally been modernised with 16-645E3 engines and alternators making them GT-26C and increasing the power from 2000HP to 3000HP. The rebuilds are considered successful, and three new frames are being built to use up spare trucks and motors salvaged from scrapped Cab units.

The rebuilds kept their class and number, but recently it was decided to renumber the rebuilds XR 550 to XR 555 (one original unit is to be preserved, but some newer units were rebuilt, so a gap has been left at XR556 for one more rebuild). The new units are to be XR557 to XR559.

XR555 was completed after the Pacific National takeover, and is painted blue and yellow, rather than the dark green with yellow "wings" on the nose. It is also testing a new muffler required for the new units - rebuilds don't need to meet new environmental legislation.

The XR are, of course, also heavier than the original X class. The later X class are expected to continue as 2000HP units.

New Zealand! This is a separate country, even though the flags of NZ and Australia are a bit alike (NZ has red stars). The railways, called "Tranz Rail" until recently, were run by Wisconsin Central and for a while by CN (a lot of locomotives were painted largely black under CN control, but with yellow on the cab instead of red!).

Tranz Rail was purchased by Australian transport company Toll, a part owner of Pacific National in Australia, and they have intoduced a sort of lime green and yellow scheme which New Zealanders don't like (they say it is too Australian - Australian sports colours are dark green and yellow - we say the green is nothing like our sports colours!)

Toll Rail inherited mainly a fleet of fairly old U26C units,(class DX) standard GE export units used all over the world, some GT22C EMD units (DFT) rebuilt from Canadian built G22C s (class DF) and some G22 U6 units (class DC) rebuilt from Canadian G12s.

U6 = U for universal (Narrow gauge), 6 means six axles, but only four motors (A1A-A1A)

There are a few old switchers with four or six coupled wheels, and some G8 U6 units (DBR) that look much like the G22U6 units, but have different (lighter) frames.

The few remaining passenger trains are usually hauled by class DC locomotives, even under 25kV catenary on the "North Island Main Trunk Line". Like QR, NZR have 3000 kW electric Bo'Bo'Bo' locomotives, and these sometinmes haul passenger as well as freight.

Peter

Thanks for the information, I have to peal back my brain to find more questions!!!

[M636C]

The X class, of Victorian Railways, later Freight Australia and now Pacific National, and the Queensland Rail 2130 were both export versions of SD-38s, the X being a G-26C but the 2130 being a GL-26C, with 16-645E engines.

L = Lightweight Frame

The GL-26Cs were all narrow (3'6") gauge but the X (G-26C) were used on both broad (5'3") and standard gauge.

The QR is stll running quite a few GL-26C, they had about 100 numbered in the 2100 and 2200 series. The oldest units with DC generators are mainly out of service and some were sold to The "Antofagasta and Boliva Railway" (FCAB) in Peru.

There is a plan to rebuild some as GT-22C, replacing the 16-645 with a 12-645E3, which increases the power slightly, 2000HP to 2250HP, but improves the fuel economy under most operating conditions. These may be ballasted up to about 110 tonnes fom the original 96 tonnes (hence the "L" in the original model number) to improve haulage capacity.

The oldest X class, which also had DC generators (numbers X 31 to X36), and which originally had the rare 16-567E engine (a 645 fitted with 567 cylinder liners) making them G-16C as built, have generally been modernised with 16-645E3 engines and alternators making them GT-26C and increasing the power from 2000HP to 3000HP. The rebuilds are considered successful, and three new frames are being built to use up spare trucks and motors salvaged from scrapped Cab units.

The rebuilds kept their class and number, but recently it was decided to renumber the rebuilds XR 550 to XR 555 (one original unit is to be preserved, but some newer units were rebuilt, so a gap has been left at XR556 for one more rebuild). The new units are to be XR557 to XR559.

XR555 was completed after the Pacific National takeover, and is painted blue and yellow, rather than the dark green with yellow "wings" on the nose. It is also testing a new muffler required for the new units - rebuilds don't need to meet new environmental legislation.

The XR are, of course, also heavier than the original X class. The later X class are expected to continue as 2000HP units.

New Zealand! This is a separate country, even though the flags of NZ and Australia are a bit alike (NZ has red stars). The railways, called "Tranz Rail" until recently, were run by Wisconsin Central and for a while by CN (a lot of locomotives were painted largely black under CN control, but with yellow on the cab instead of red!).

Tranz Rail was purchased by Australian transport company Toll, a part owner of Pacific National in Australia, and they have intoduced a sort of lime green and yellow scheme which New Zealanders don't like (they say it is too Australian - Australian sports colours are dark green and yellow - we say the green is nothing like our sports colours!)

Toll Rail inherited mainly a fleet of fairly old U26C units,(class DX) standard GE export units used all over the world, some GT22C EMD units (DFT) rebuilt from Canadian built G22C s (class DF) and some G22 U6 units (class DC) rebuilt from Canadian G12s.

U6 = U for universal (Narrow gauge), 6 means six axles, but only four motors (A1A-A1A)

There are a few old switchers with four or six coupled wheels, and some G8 U6 units (DBR) that look much like the G22U6 units, but have different (lighter) frames.

The few remaining passenger trains are usually hauled by class DC locomotives, even under 25kV catenary on the "North Island Main Trunk Line". Like QR, NZR have 3000 kW electric Bo'Bo'Bo' locomotives, and these sometinmes haul passenger as well as freight.

Peter

[Sterling1]

On the subject of Australian railroading, what do the New Zealanders use for their motive power? Again same format please, info being gratefully appreciated

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C

No further Australian Questions?

Peter

Combing through my files I remember two early GM examples of six axle locos, I believe they were the class X and class 2130. What happened to these locos?
There was a note in the class X where it mentioned "token exchanging device"
exactly what was that? Are there practical ways to deal with the guage differences?
my source was Hollingsworth and Cook "the Great Book of Trains" 1998 edition

The info is greatly appreciated

[M636C]

No further Australian Questions?

Peter

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

Loco Johns...http://www.csx-sucks.com and check the photos.

I was recommended to go to that website and it's good especially that ex-Conrail GE diesel with a fire. Nevertheless, it was 'heart warming!!!'[:D][8D]

[Sterling1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

Rail PIcts is a very easy site to burn hours on....almost as addicting as these forums.[:D]

Yeah, it's a serious time suck when you are extremely distracted.[:D][:0][:p]

[UPTRAIN]

Loco Johns...http://www.csx-sucks.com and check the photos.

[M636C]

Right, your Australian Question Answerer has stumbled over your thread (again).

In general, Australian Locomotives are basically EMD or GE locomotives built under licence in Australia. This is because track strength and clearances are less than in the USA, so the locomotives have to be lighter and lower in height, 14 feet being the maximum height, the maximum width is a bit under 10 feet (which is a bit smaller), but the weight limit is normally 135 tonnes (metric tons), equal to 297, 500 lbs, but some lines are 3'6" gauge and these units are limited to 110 tonnes, 242, 400 lbs, and are limited further in height to about 13 feet.

So you can't just buy a GE Dash9-44CW, because apart from being too heavy, it wouldn't get under the first road bridge it came to.

We have a model Cv40-9i which suits our limits, and has the same engine as the Dash 9, but set to 4000 HP. The "v" means that it can be set at lower power if required, about 2800 HP or 3600 HP being the options. The "i" means "international", meaning that it isn't intended to run in the USA. There are 120 of these numbered NR1 to NR121 missing NR3 (which was damaged in an accident). The NR stood for "National Rail", which originally operated them, but this company has merged to form "Pacific National".

Queensland Rail are having 11 similar GE AC units model AC4000CMi being built for expansion on standard gauge routes.

The EMD equivalent is the GT46C, of which there are about 55. Most of these (32) are owned by Pacific National, the remainer by "Australian Railroad Group".

The model number is defined as follows;

G = General Purpose
T = Turbocharged
46 = number of cylinders (16) plus 30 to indicate a 710G3 or later engine
C = three axle trucks

These are all 3830HP and weigh 135 tonnes

On the narrow gauge, the newest unit is a GT42CU-AC

Which logically has a twelve cylinder 3000HP 710G3B-ES engine, the U stands for "Universal" (narrow gauge) traction motors and the "-AC" means AC traction motors.

Queensland Rail have 49 of these (4001 to 4049) and Pacific National have 13 (PN001 to PN013), and the last units are still being built for both operators. These weight 110 tonnes

So using the same engine but DC equipment ARG have 11 narrow gauge "S class" units S2101 to S2111 which are model JT42C ;

J = Double ended unit, either boxcab or hood unit (the latter is often called "dogbone" because it has a narrow hood with wide cabs at each end)

Paxcific National have 55 standard gauge JT42Cs, also "dogbones" numbered 8201 to 8258 (they had a bad wreck with three of them!)which weigh 135 tonnes.

The most common earlier units are JT26C-2SS. These are double end boxcabs.

26 = number of cylinders (16) plus 10 = 645E type engine.

These are all standard (or a few broad 5'3" gauge) 3000HP units weighing about 130 tonnes. They combine the engine of an SD40-2 with the electrical gear of an SD50.

"-2SS" means modular electrical equipment and "Super Series" wheel slip protection.

Pacific National have all of these, numbered

8101 to 8184 (ex FreightCorp)
G510 to G543 (ex Freight Australia)
BL26 to BL35 (ex National Rail)

The passenger units are Countrylink's class XP, a British design of about 2200 HP but only 70 tonnes, and QR's DTD, a German diesel hydraulic design of about 3600 HP.

If you need more detail or earlier units, ask about a particular unit number and I'll try to help.

[railman]

Rail PIcts is a very easy site to burn hours on....almost as addicting as these forums.[:D]

[Sterling1]

Looking at www.railpictures.net (again) and seeing a broadside of the MP36PH-3C or -3S I have to marvel at it. But is it all that it's really cobbled up to be[?], note the above posts, same format.

[Sterling1]

After poking my head in you guessed it!!! www.railpictures.net saw a MGA Super 7 4-axle version. How many versions[?] and any detail differences[?]; they looked a little strange but the low radiator screen looked alright.

[Sterling1]

Another thought going through www.railpictures.net , how does Controlled Tractive Effort CTE affect the units it's applied to? Why would a railroad choose that over a heavier chassis as in CSX's Heavy AC4400CW's?

[Sterling1]

While waiting for the phone line to clear (yes it's TT/TO single track dial phone line), a fine thought reminded me of a photo in a "The Railroad Press" magazine where it showed a GP 20 and Paducah rebuild with ox air filter. The GP 20 was shooting out black smoke and the Paducah rebuild white smoke. Now is that common for certain locomtives or is it a rare thing? Please specify as we all learn better.


"They will we are Christians by our love, by our love . . ." Audio Adrenaline

[Sterling1]

I was just in www.railpictures.net looking at new pictures and randomly stumbled on Australian locomotives. I wonder what are they using these days? Please specify the HP, the equipment, what the terminology means (loco designation), etc
Thanks in Advance

"They will we are Christians by our love, by our love . . . " Audio Adrenaline